The Meng's approach to geomancy appears to be roughly analogous to Liminal Carver. Some Green level educational texts for it (and/or a relevant Art chain) could be neat.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Meng's approach to geomancy appears to be roughly analogous to Liminal Carver. Some Green level educational texts for it (and/or a relevant Art chain) could be neat.
Ooh, yeah. That could save us some troubles for sure.
Right now that juicy Music->Formations edit project for WHR isn't quite rules compliant given we haven't mastered the art. But segueing to different but thematically similar art solves that neatly. Can even have its intro project directly reference WHR for philosophical/emotional continuity. Basically like getting a successor art early. Much less of a stretch.
(Also it's very funny if we snag Luo-style spirit contracting into our kit later down the line, since we'd have characteristic techniques from both Weilu-presenting count clans in our hands.)
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Asking about lessons about their geomancy defensive formations as a reward sounds like it would have massive synergy with th Garden Mist cultivation action. The resemblance is striking.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Meng Dan presented himself his suit to court Ling Qi depending on how the Auction goes.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Meng Dan presented himself his suit to court Ling Qi depending on how the Auction goes.
Well, it *is* always nice to understand more about people's magical defenses when you're an infiltration specialist. Who knows when Ling Qi is gonna need to sneak into some Meng facility lol.
Ha, I've always loved how utterly useless scale is in Xianxia. The tree should leave the atmosphere completely at that size just to mention one thing. The world tree doesn't make any sense at all, yet I don't find it obnoxious since the answer to any possible criticism in regards to scale is "magic" and in this case it works due to the lore built up around the tree.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
More like elves living in treehouses (pretentious sense of inflated self-importance included) than an arcology which is a building made from the ground up.
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EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Late in replaying about this in thread, but man great job as always @AndelevionThat's right all edited up and pretty volume 1 of threads of destiny is now available in pre-order for the e-book version!
Threads Volume 1
- Location
- The Space Between
First of all, LEWD ]:<
second of all, an arcology is just a fusion of the words "Architecture" and "Ecology". It refers to a comprehensive urban planning style that doesn't necessarily require all of it to be inside of one building. In fact, the earliest examples of this kind of city planning were done two-dimensionally by architects such as Frank Lloyd-Wright in Illinois. He designed "Broadacre City" which is very similar to a modern Suburb in design, except it relies on strong democracy and is self-sufficient in ways that suburbs aren't designed to be. The open spaces and bounty of The United States was a perfect canvas on which to attempt such comprehensive planning styles and utopic ideas.
It's actually funny, because both the modern Suburb and Mall were both originally utopia designs that devolved pretty much immediately into exploitative and unhealthy actualities. You even have an arcology design for East Saint Louis that was discarded not only because of cost, but because Saint Louis exploits East Saint Louis.
Did I say funny? I meant tragic.
Anyway, I expect there to be plenty of areas of Xiangmen that are still being rehabilitated after thousands of years of Hui civic designs. Nothing says "the absolute worst" more than taking a utopic bounty that's able to provide for all and converting it into a pile of endlessly competing sources of corruption and exclusivity. Gated communities within gated communities, whole branches "specialized" in such a way that they conveniently bottleneck resource flow in exploitable ways. Generations of intentional knotwork snarling what should be shared for all into convenient pools to be split amongst the fortunate.
in any case, the human habitation grown into Xiangmen almost certainly qualifies as an Arcology. Millennia of Hui rule wouldn't be enough to stop Xiangmen's power from being able to provide for all, and a self sufficient urban complex is an arcology whether made of living wood or steel and glass. It's actually really easy to see now exactly why the Hui were unable to see the forest of rebellion, for there was a certain TREE dominating their view lmao
- Location
- Colorado
I mean, it does leave the atmosphere. It's got a telescope/observatory in the upper branches that's probably about as high up as Hubble.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
I'm not sure I see the issue? The system change, among other things, slowed down the rate at which we plowed through new arts to the point where it should be obvious even to people only following RR or the book releases that something about how Ling Qi learned arts has changed. The in-universe justification for the shift is that just as Foundation is the point where your domain is advanced enough to integrate part of it with your domain weapon, Threshold is the point where it's advanced enough to study arts at a deeper and more philosophical level.
In the old system, we needed to have complete mastery over an art before we could begin tweaking with it, but under the new system, we study the philosophical basis of the art directly by default. Since we're already poking at the foundations of the arts as we learn them in the new system, why shouldn't it be possible to tweak them as we're going along? Especially when we've already practiced art modification? Or if we really wanted to make sure we have in-universe justifications for our more aggressive art modifications, we could wait until after FSS+ to proceed with them - I believe FSS+ is planned for Soon™.
If it were just WHR under consideration I wouldn't really care what justification we used, but I've been under the impression that several of our arts (e.g. SNR) were regarded as similarly awkward, and opening up live art modifications as a perk of Threshold (or maybe Framing, if Threshold seems too soon) could allow us to work around those problems while reducing the need to introduce yet more entirely new replacements into the narrative.
Echoes of Ascension
One would imagine that it would be an easy thing, to track the ascensions of the greatest cultivators to the status of great spirit, that the ripples of their profound insights would be wholly unignorable. Yet it is fact that many scholars of cultivation only notice a small change to the underlying fabric of the world decades or centuries after those changes have begun to confound their calculations. There are a handful of explanations for this, the ascension of pure spirits or hidden hermit cultivators. Some even profess the theory that foreigners far beyond the borders of the empire might sometimes achieve this sublime state.
This scholar cannot confirm any of these theories, and to do so is beyond the remit of this document. Instead, this scholar aims to record the most prominent ascended cultivators in imperial history. In this opening chapter of the treatise, they will be listed and briefly explained. In further chapters the effects of their ascensions will receive further academic study.
The first, who cannot be ignored are the 'three kings' of pre-imperial lore, who are accorded vast effects. Whether this is due to narrative merging of multiple ancient ascended figures or a greater malleability of the world in older days is again, beyond the scope of this document. Arising from the Thousand Lakes in its beginning was Inviolate Death, from the legendary fisher, whose ascension is said to have solidified the boundary between life and death, between dreams and reality, and ended the ability for souls and spirits to slip back and forth casually.
Then is Tribulation Unending, arising from the conqueror Zhi, whose ascension laid down the course of human cultivation, the need for struggle to face one's demons again and again and come out the stronger if one wished for power. Last is the Bountiful Earth, arising from the diviner of the south, ordering the seasons and the rites of the earth which the Empire's agriculturalists use to this day.
There are more in the prehistory of the Empire. Bronze Coils Unbending, the first ascended White Serpent Queen, whose ascension shaped the castes of the Bai. Crownbreaker, grandson of Zhi, who ensured that no king would ever rule the Zheng, Fair Tides Dawn of the Jing who ordered the seas. Slumbering Peaks, scion of the savage isles, who tamed the roaring mountains which dominated its meager lands.
There are likely more of these, but access to the records of the most ancient and honorable clans cannot be easily gained. We then arrive at the Imperial ascended. First mention must go to Immaculate Angles Everlasting, son of the sage and establisher of Imperial Geomancy. And in the next generation, rivaling their grand uncle in importance, Pure Channels Striving and the Jade Archivists. These descendants of the Sage laid down still more of the vital institutions which allow the Empire to thrive. Pure Channels Striving laid down the medical techniques which allowed for the study of meridians, and building upon the principles of Geomancy, laid down the proportions, and equations which allowed for the creation of the first pill furnaces. The Jade Archivist meanwhile, changed the face of the world through his meditations on the nature of information and its passing, encoding in the abundant jade of the Celestial Peaks with the qualities which allows it to so effectively store information to this day.
The Strife of Twin Emperors produced not only the nightmarish rule of Shang Tsung over the peaks, but the form of the first Emperor of the Second dynasty, Emperor Ro. The Emperor would after centuries of crushing the remaining rebels and renewal of the ministries, ascend himself as Steel Words Binding. Becoming the fount of the spirits of law which serve to advise the Ministry and its judges to this day.
In the south there rose at the same time, Unity of Blades, great patriarch of the Xi clan who began the long and torturous process of taming the Emerald Seas into acceptable imperial citizens, the road which the new Duchess Cai has so recently pressed forward upon. In speaking of the south one must also mention the Palace of One, matriarch and founder of the decadent Hui, who sought to make porous again the veil of dream and waking.
In the east the most influential ascended spirits are the Venomous Sun, founder of the Guo, whose ascension bled into the veins of his descendants and their vassals and their crops a hardiness against the poisons left behind by the Cataclysm. In doing so the core of the power that would restore proper order to the Golden Fields was forged.
In tandem was the Venomous Sun's brother in blood, who became High Spirit Soaring, and awakened among the stones of the east the windstones which speed the travel of the wandering caravan cities of the East.
Among the Ancient clans noticeable ascensions have been few, but among those known to outsiders are Joyous Rambling Revelry, the ascended Zheng who changed the nature of the Empire's alcohols and recreational substances such that all but the mightiest cultivators could still find substances which could dull or alter their minds. A crude Law, but one which must be acknowledged. Similarly, Fangs Burning Purity, scion of the White Serpent, ended the slow dilution of the serpent's blood in the people of the Thousand Lakes.
In the north, Eternity Current, once matriarch of the Jin must be spoken of. Her Law calmed the great northern current, rendering it sailable by the skilled and altered the methods needed to propitiate the spirits of storm and sky, greatly expanding the reach of normal ships and great ones alike.
These are most prominent among the older ascended, but there has been a number of ascended in the current dynasty. In beginning to discuss them one must begin with the most important of our age, Emperor An, who became the Inexorable Justice, the judge of vice and sin which our great Empire had too long been lacking, and whose eyes have granted the inheritors of his great work in the Ministry of Integrity the eyes to ensure that no criminals, rebels, or traitors may escape from the punishment they have earned for perfidy and corruption.
Of the other modern ascensions…
-Excerpt of Echoes of Ascension, a recent scholarly treatise discussing the effects of Ascended Cultivators
This scholar cannot confirm any of these theories, and to do so is beyond the remit of this document. Instead, this scholar aims to record the most prominent ascended cultivators in imperial history. In this opening chapter of the treatise, they will be listed and briefly explained. In further chapters the effects of their ascensions will receive further academic study.
The first, who cannot be ignored are the 'three kings' of pre-imperial lore, who are accorded vast effects. Whether this is due to narrative merging of multiple ancient ascended figures or a greater malleability of the world in older days is again, beyond the scope of this document. Arising from the Thousand Lakes in its beginning was Inviolate Death, from the legendary fisher, whose ascension is said to have solidified the boundary between life and death, between dreams and reality, and ended the ability for souls and spirits to slip back and forth casually.
Then is Tribulation Unending, arising from the conqueror Zhi, whose ascension laid down the course of human cultivation, the need for struggle to face one's demons again and again and come out the stronger if one wished for power. Last is the Bountiful Earth, arising from the diviner of the south, ordering the seasons and the rites of the earth which the Empire's agriculturalists use to this day.
There are more in the prehistory of the Empire. Bronze Coils Unbending, the first ascended White Serpent Queen, whose ascension shaped the castes of the Bai. Crownbreaker, grandson of Zhi, who ensured that no king would ever rule the Zheng, Fair Tides Dawn of the Jing who ordered the seas. Slumbering Peaks, scion of the savage isles, who tamed the roaring mountains which dominated its meager lands.
There are likely more of these, but access to the records of the most ancient and honorable clans cannot be easily gained. We then arrive at the Imperial ascended. First mention must go to Immaculate Angles Everlasting, son of the sage and establisher of Imperial Geomancy. And in the next generation, rivaling their grand uncle in importance, Pure Channels Striving and the Jade Archivists. These descendants of the Sage laid down still more of the vital institutions which allow the Empire to thrive. Pure Channels Striving laid down the medical techniques which allowed for the study of meridians, and building upon the principles of Geomancy, laid down the proportions, and equations which allowed for the creation of the first pill furnaces. The Jade Archivist meanwhile, changed the face of the world through his meditations on the nature of information and its passing, encoding in the abundant jade of the Celestial Peaks with the qualities which allows it to so effectively store information to this day.
The Strife of Twin Emperors produced not only the nightmarish rule of Shang Tsung over the peaks, but the form of the first Emperor of the Second dynasty, Emperor Ro. The Emperor would after centuries of crushing the remaining rebels and renewal of the ministries, ascend himself as Steel Words Binding. Becoming the fount of the spirits of law which serve to advise the Ministry and its judges to this day.
In the south there rose at the same time, Unity of Blades, great patriarch of the Xi clan who began the long and torturous process of taming the Emerald Seas into acceptable imperial citizens, the road which the new Duchess Cai has so recently pressed forward upon. In speaking of the south one must also mention the Palace of One, matriarch and founder of the decadent Hui, who sought to make porous again the veil of dream and waking.
In the east the most influential ascended spirits are the Venomous Sun, founder of the Guo, whose ascension bled into the veins of his descendants and their vassals and their crops a hardiness against the poisons left behind by the Cataclysm. In doing so the core of the power that would restore proper order to the Golden Fields was forged.
In tandem was the Venomous Sun's brother in blood, who became High Spirit Soaring, and awakened among the stones of the east the windstones which speed the travel of the wandering caravan cities of the East.
Among the Ancient clans noticeable ascensions have been few, but among those known to outsiders are Joyous Rambling Revelry, the ascended Zheng who changed the nature of the Empire's alcohols and recreational substances such that all but the mightiest cultivators could still find substances which could dull or alter their minds. A crude Law, but one which must be acknowledged. Similarly, Fangs Burning Purity, scion of the White Serpent, ended the slow dilution of the serpent's blood in the people of the Thousand Lakes.
In the north, Eternity Current, once matriarch of the Jin must be spoken of. Her Law calmed the great northern current, rendering it sailable by the skilled and altered the methods needed to propitiate the spirits of storm and sky, greatly expanding the reach of normal ships and great ones alike.
These are most prominent among the older ascended, but there has been a number of ascended in the current dynasty. In beginning to discuss them one must begin with the most important of our age, Emperor An, who became the Inexorable Justice, the judge of vice and sin which our great Empire had too long been lacking, and whose eyes have granted the inheritors of his great work in the Ministry of Integrity the eyes to ensure that no criminals, rebels, or traitors may escape from the punishment they have earned for perfidy and corruption.
Of the other modern ascensions…
-Excerpt of Echoes of Ascension, a recent scholarly treatise discussing the effects of Ascended Cultivators
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Notice us senpai! \o/
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ooh, among the most interesting world building pieces so far. Interesting to see that the Hui seem to have been the ones that made Dream walking possible again.
A truly wild theory.
A truly wild theory.
The way that the shifting framework for Ling Qi's interaction with arts was described, these kind of deep tweaks should be harder on an unmastered art, not easier. She's operating on what's described as an objectively more challenging level.
I readily accept that it's now more plausible for her to make major changes like substituting an element(fire->dream) and the skillset it's based on(music->formations), because she's now able to operate on the conceptual level of the art's construction. I also accept that Ling Qi should have a bit more flexible in tweaking arts as she masters them, tailoring them to herself in little ways. However, neither of these changes justifies being able to make major structural edits to an art that she does not understand. And that's the whole point of lacking mastery- Ling Qi fundamentally doesn't understand the art's complexities, or else there wouldn't be any projects in it to learn.
But it's not even a close thing, with not just one but three projects, excluding Garden of Mists, remaining in WHR. And to a degree that's actually exactly what makes Garden of Mists so tempting in the first place! People want to be exploring the themes hinted at in this art, they just want a more fitting context for the exploration, which Garden of Mists provides. But the very fact that that exploration is pending, is an object of yearning, proves that Ling Qi doesn't reasonably have the grounding in the art or the concepts to be making the mass adjustments asked of her in the Garden of Mists project. The entire thing is such a valued magnet of our attention because she lacks cohesive grasp of the material.
The reason I'd like circumstances to shift to be a bit more realistic with the in-setting mechanics is that it'd avoid undermining the journey by requiring so much of Ling Qi at its start point. It would be very limiting, in a narrative progression sense, to have Ling Qi simply muscle out the edit on her own in an extraordinary display, since that puts sharp limits on her starting comprehension, by necessity. As in, it pins it to a very high level from the outset, which naturally restricts how much wiggle room you have. There's a genuine question of where she moves forwards from there, and in the worst case it ends up simply eliding most of the thematic exploration people were looking for in the first place.
tl;dr: People want the learning experience from WHR's themes. Major manipulation of arts at Ling Qi's level of cultivation definitionally requires "having the answers". These are in innate contradiction to one another; Ling Qi hashing out the art edit on her own requires that she has less to learn from the art than otherwise, and all but guarantees that narrative experience, which people don't want.
Edit: and in any case, tossing out awkward stuff entirely is fine. As much as we don't have the time or space to add new things, we even more don't have the time or space to spend on hammering arts into shape that just don't move in the direction we want to take things. Because that takes a lot more narrative time and space to do. SNR's 100% on my chopping block and will yeet it at the first opportunity, for example.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Ok- so Inexorable Death would have laid down the taboo that the twilight king kinda broke?
And we see at least two 'change what came before' ascension, the guy making booze work again vs Tribulation Unending, and the Hui also working against Inexorable Death to restore dream.
Which makes it interesting, in terms of who gets to violate which laws, and gives us a clue as to the nature of Sovereignity.
This is a wonderfully poetic analysis that applies perfectly to intellectual property law too.
And we see at least two 'change what came before' ascension, the guy making booze work again vs Tribulation Unending, and the Hui also working against Inexorable Death to restore dream.
Which makes it interesting, in terms of who gets to violate which laws, and gives us a clue as to the nature of Sovereignity.
This is a wonderfully poetic analysis that applies perfectly to intellectual property law too.
Things we have heard are important enough to Ascend over now:
Boundaries
Tribulations
Seasons
Bai Castes
No Kings Of Zheng
The Seas
Xuanwu? (or volcanoes, not sure which here)
Geometry
Medical Techniques To Examine Meridians, Also Pill Furnace Math
Jade As A Storage Medium
Law Spirits
Emerald Seas Is A Proper Place
Weaken Dream Boundary
Fuck Off, Cataclysm Poisons
Windstones
Always A Bigger Recreational Substance
Serpent Blood (For Thousand Lakes)
Make The Big North Wind Cooperate
Justice Will Be Served
Some of these are bigger than others.
Boundaries
Tribulations
Seasons
Bai Castes
No Kings Of Zheng
The Seas
Xuanwu? (or volcanoes, not sure which here)
Geometry
Medical Techniques To Examine Meridians, Also Pill Furnace Math
Jade As A Storage Medium
Law Spirits
Emerald Seas Is A Proper Place
Weaken Dream Boundary
Fuck Off, Cataclysm Poisons
Windstones
Always A Bigger Recreational Substance
Serpent Blood (For Thousand Lakes)
Make The Big North Wind Cooperate
Justice Will Be Served
Some of these are bigger than others.
- Pronouns
- He
Huh, I wonder what Shenhua would cause if she ever ascended.
Revolution as progress is rather esoteric.
Revolution as progress is rather esoteric.
Cai Shenhua is planning to ascend as the mandate of heavens and the right of rebellion isn't she? Like the other side of Emperor An's Inexorable Justice keeping those disloyal to the Imperial throne in check, the heavens will be beholden to the people. That idea Renxiang spoke of, that cultivators must take care of mortals and their lessers, made into a fundamental principle of the world. We've theorized that the Ministry of Integrity's work to find and recruit Talented problems in the mortal population and An's support of the Sects was a method of suppressing Xianxia protagonist, and should Shenhua retire in favor of her heir and ascend maybe those living under corrupt and abusive governance will have an even greater chance chance of spontaneous high Talent. Imagine if the powerful cultivators of Xianxialand have to be nice to those below them, like the Dragon-Gods of old being struck down by the Mother. Truly the greatest insult to the Hui.
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- Location
- The Space Between
"Inviolate Death, from the legendary fisher, whose ascension is said to have solidified the boundary between life and death, between dreams and reality, and ended the ability for souls and spirits to slip back and forth casually."
hey Meizhen you wouldn't mind if I did just a little violating of the Laws of Yao the Fisher's Ascended Great Spirit right?
no wonder she was so upset with us. Because in the Emerald Seas post-"Palace of One" the lines between Dream and Physical are way easier to pass through here than in the lands of INVIOLATE DEATH
Yeah. I like the idea that the greatest of the Hui was based in transgression and corruption of Boundaries.
Time to set some healthy Boundaries, as well as proper ways to pass by them <3
hey Meizhen you wouldn't mind if I did just a little violating of the Laws of Yao the Fisher's Ascended Great Spirit right?
no wonder she was so upset with us. Because in the Emerald Seas post-"Palace of One" the lines between Dream and Physical are way easier to pass through here than in the lands of INVIOLATE DEATH
Yeah. I like the idea that the greatest of the Hui was based in transgression and corruption of Boundaries.
Time to set some healthy Boundaries, as well as proper ways to pass by them <3
...Yao killed so many people that he had to write People Die When They Are Killed as Law to quell the giant ghost swarms didn't he?
- Location
- Estonia
So, the Laws of the Three Pre-imperial Kings were:
No, You Can't Visit Your Dead Grandparents
If I Had It Difficult, So Will Everybody Else
Better Seasons, Better Agriculture
Lacking more information for potential mitigating circumstances (like the original Bai Husbando needing to fight some undead hordes, or the human cultivation having been even more unfair, difficult or rare before), then it seems that at least two out the the three Kings were kinda self-righteous dicks, with Emerald Seas getting the best one in Tsuu.
Also, while anti-corruption is good and all, I'm a little afraid that The Empire is going to grow more and more into an inflexible and isolationist Legalist Dystopia with each ascending "Law and Order" Emperor, but I guess that's what Momma Cai's future ascension is for.
The "No Autocracy in the Commune" and "War on Not Getting to Have Drugs" Laws are just pure Zheng awesomeness, though.
And a great quest, just caught up.
No, You Can't Visit Your Dead Grandparents
If I Had It Difficult, So Will Everybody Else
Better Seasons, Better Agriculture
Lacking more information for potential mitigating circumstances (like the original Bai Husbando needing to fight some undead hordes, or the human cultivation having been even more unfair, difficult or rare before), then it seems that at least two out the the three Kings were kinda self-righteous dicks, with Emerald Seas getting the best one in Tsuu.
Also, while anti-corruption is good and all, I'm a little afraid that The Empire is going to grow more and more into an inflexible and isolationist Legalist Dystopia with each ascending "Law and Order" Emperor, but I guess that's what Momma Cai's future ascension is for.
The "No Autocracy in the Commune" and "War on Not Getting to Have Drugs" Laws are just pure Zheng awesomeness, though.
And a great quest, just caught up.
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It makes a lot more sense that the big families have maintained power for so long with the explicit context that their best and brightest are periodically overwriting reality to specifically benefit their families.
Ya gotta obey not just the letter, but the spirit of the law
Yao was known to have been unmatched in murder, killing things across the proto Empire in search for the deadliest waifu.
Any undead are a self-made problem
- Location
- scrabbling
very fun sidestory. slightly sparse on detail but tantalizing for it.
a shame that Emerald Seas, despite being the home of one of the three kings, has been sidelined so long. that's part of the story construction though: the protagonist's province must have problems to solve. and the things that made it great, no doubt, are also what have laid it low.
I'd bet that ascensions in the vein of the Hui are what help make so many of the reader-enjoyed features of the Emerald Seas, like gender fluidity and an inclination to tolerance of multiplicity, more possible. Imperial ascensions certainly wouldn't, they're all focused on codification and calcified laws.
a shame that Emerald Seas, despite being the home of one of the three kings, has been sidelined so long. that's part of the story construction though: the protagonist's province must have problems to solve. and the things that made it great, no doubt, are also what have laid it low.
Shenhua is unlikely to ascend, from a meta perspective. not only are LQ+CR+GG primed to try to kick her off her throne, her way is fundamentally associated with this mortal world and her own positioning as an underdog. she has become the power she abhorred. revolution must change things and ascension is a fossilization
We get it, we don't like the Hui. You realize though, that as much as they were kind of jerks, there had to be something there for them to be right about? An acknowledgement of misleading or harmful false dichotomy doesn't have to be phrased negatively this way. It's kind of a big thing nowadays, to point out how binaries are so often 'porous' and fluid.
I'd bet that ascensions in the vein of the Hui are what help make so many of the reader-enjoyed features of the Emerald Seas, like gender fluidity and an inclination to tolerance of multiplicity, more possible. Imperial ascensions certainly wouldn't, they're all focused on codification and calcified laws.
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