Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
On that note, art builds:
  1. Forgotten Vale Melody (FVM)
  2. Frozen Soul Serenade (FSS)
  3. Phantasmagora of Lunar Revelry (PLR)
  4. Sable Crescent Step (SCS)
  5. Thousand Ring Fortress (TRF)
  6. Harmony of the Dancing Wind (HDW)
  7. Curious Diviners Eye (CDE)
  8. Mysterious Night's Obscurity (MNO)?
  9. Ephemeral Night's Memory (ENM)?
  10. Storm Enduring Seedling (SES)/Imperturbable Manor's Hearth (IMH)?
Something like that's already 10 arts. We don't have unlimited time/meridians here. This is also something that needs to be considered.

Broadly though getting arts from Archive 1 should be stuff that we want to boost *now* (i.e. Resist, Stealth, Perception), or really want to slot. Longer term art/training things we should leave off until Archive 2.
 
Remember our goals: Win the inter-Sect tournament junior division on turn 18, achieve at least rank 529 (since CRX needs to be above 525) by turn 24, and create a foundation for the future. In fact, does anybody know what format the tournament is going to be in? Are we going to be doing 1v1s, 2v2s, or battlefield team skirmishes? Will there be non-combat competitions? What's the average cultivation level sent to the bouts, and how many total teammates will we need?
 
Let's talk about the best defensive art since TRF. Let's talk about night parade.

What do you mean by it's not a defensive art, but a summon one ? That's just the art style but it's very much a defensive art.

In addition the pipers can be direction to throw themselves in the path of attacks which would strike the user or their allies. Taking damage in their stead. This can fail if the attackers Hit exceeds the original targets avoid by too great a degree

This is why it's a very, very strong defensive art for us. We are a dodge tank. This means that if we stand a chance in a fight, the attacker hit will never exceed our avoid by too great a degree.

So for every single target art our opponent use, we can get two stack of a defensive ablative summon that can each tank one attack. It's incredibly good defense wise (especially as by green 3 the summons should be green and so able to tank 2 hits).

Imagine the fight with ji rong with such an art. Our victory would be assured, all of ji rong attacks being tanked by the summons until there are so many on the battlefield that our FSS attacks are insta kills.

It is weak for a team fight, or against AOE arts, but for a duel against a solo target ennemy ? It's incredibly good. It make it a very viable sideboard as we intend to have some duels in the future (to grow in rank).
 
Thing is, what we really want in terms of the tournament and our Sect time is arts that finish up in Green 4 - i.e. Archive 2. Then we can be at full power for the tournament and get replacements from the highest level of the archive before we leave the Sect.

Archive 1 stuff we really want to keep to a minimum, only getting what we need to shore up holes in the short term and develop our Domain.

I'm kinda getting increasingly tempted to just get SES for the short term shore-up, and then look for MNO-likes etc. in Archive 2 (search for anti-dispel + anti-perception, because as MNO highlights that is what FVM/PLR really really need). Maybe ENM to get our stealth up.

Short-term build:
  1. Forgotten Vale Melody (FVM)
  2. Frozen Soul Serenade (FSS)
  3. Phantasmagora of Lunar Revelry (PLR)
  4. Sable Crescent Step (SCS)
  5. Thousand Ring Fortress (TRF)
  6. Harmony of the Dancing Wind (HDW)
  7. Curious Diviners Eye (CDE)
  8. Ephemeral Night's Memory (ENM)
  9. Storm Enduring Seedling (SES)
And then fix things up past this with Archive 2.

Hmm, a TRF replacement that was basically a cross between TRF and IMH to do both spiritual and physical would be good I think. Yes, it would be weaker than having focused arts for both things, but we're already wanting to layer piles of field effects, summons, and perception filters on top of good dodge as well. We can only dedicate so many of our arts to defense, and every thing else in that list needs proper art synergy as well.
 
Thing is, what we really want in terms of the tournament and our Sect time is arts that finish up in Green 4 - i.e. Archive 2. Then we can be at full power for the tournament and get replacements from the highest level of the archive before we leave the Sect.

Archive 1 stuff we really want to keep to a minimum, only getting what we need to shore up holes in the short term and develop our Domain.

I'm kinda getting increasingly tempted to just get SES for the short term shore-up, and then look for MNO-likes etc. in Archive 2 (search for anti-dispel + anti-perception, because as MNO highlights that is what FVM/PLR really really need). Maybe ENM to get our stealth up.

Short-term build:
  1. Forgotten Vale Melody (FVM)
  2. Frozen Soul Serenade (FSS)
  3. Phantasmagora of Lunar Revelry (PLR)
  4. Sable Crescent Step (SCS)
  5. Thousand Ring Fortress (TRF)
  6. Harmony of the Dancing Wind (HDW)
  7. Curious Diviners Eye (CDE)
  8. Ephemeral Night's Memory (ENM)
  9. Storm Enduring Seedling (SES)
And then fix things up past this with Archive 2.
Yeah, it can be easily argued that while it's painful that a lot of nifty arts in archive 1 that would fit us we won't learn because they are too low level for the times we want them in, ultimately that's what the archive is for: telling us what exists and what we can expect to be possible.

We hadn't thought at all about an art like MNO before, and so looking at archive 2+ for arts like this but a bit more specific means that we would have profited from knowledge when going through archive 1 (and SES/etc).

Hmm, a TRF replacement that was basically a cross between TRF and IMH to do both spiritual and physical would be good I think. Yes, it would be weaker than having focused arts for both things, but we're already wanting to layer piles of field effects, summons, and perception filters on top of good dodge as well. We can only dedicate so many of our arts to defense, and every thing else in that list needs proper art synergy as well.
We have to make sure we have good synergy for our offensive/control too yeah, and not just pile up defensive arts. Having an art that's a bit weaker but broader could mean having one more specific art for either control or offence, and that might be better. In that short term build, there is:

Offence:
  1. Frozen Soul Serenade (FSS)
  2. Ephemeral Night's Memory (ENM)
Control:
  1. Forgotten Vale Melody (FVM)
  2. Phantasmagora of Lunar Revelry (PLR)
Defence:
  1. Sable Crescent Step (SCS)
  2. Thousand Ring Fortress (TRF)
  3. Storm Enduring Seedling (SES)
Utility:
  1. Harmony of the Dancing Wind (HDW)
  2. Curious Diviners Eye (CDE)
Now, this isn't quite right because a lot of the arts are in 'multiple categories' (FVM, PLR and SCS are super wide, and ENM is also a good workhorse. HDW might be too). However, it is important to look at the arts we have and where they 'lean' to decide on the ratios we want. MNO would be utility for example, while IMH would replace SES for defence. Having a broader TRF/IMH hybrid so that we can get another control/offence art would be good (for all that people whine, I actually think EANP has potential).
 
I toyed this idea a little but we can use Art Alteration on PLR to change keyword 'Dance' on 'Music', right? I mean right now it's the only equipped Dance Art that we have. But it has horrible hit and penetration because it uses Dance skill as it's mastery. If we delete this problem than we didn't have to waste effort on rising mostly useless skill in future. There is always more good Music Arts that we need focus on after all.;)
 
Let's talk about the best defensive art since TRF. Let's talk about night parade.

What do you mean by it's not a defensive art, but a summon one ? That's just the art style but it's very much a defensive art.



This is why it's a very, very strong defensive art for us. We are a dodge tank. This means that if we stand a chance in a fight, the attacker hit will never exceed our avoid by too great a degree.

So for every single target art our opponent use, we can get two stack of a defensive ablative summon that can each tank one attack. It's incredibly good defense wise (especially as by green 3 the summons should be green and so able to tank 2 hits).

Imagine the fight with ji rong with such an art. Our victory would be assured, all of ji rong attacks being tanked by the summons until there are so many on the battlefield that our FSS attacks are insta kills.

It is weak for a team fight, or against AOE arts, but for a duel against a solo target ennemy ? It's incredibly good. It make it a very viable sideboard as we intend to have some duels in the future (to grow in rank).

This all has some major flaws: the constructs have Initiative G with Speed D. In our fight with Ji Rong he just jumped over Zhengui and there is no way these summons can keep up. So for this effect to trigger we have to hope the opponent charges at us in a way that keeps the summon between us and them. I dont know how often we can stack this tech, so I dont know how viable that strategy is. Also multiattacker bonus requires that a combatant can meaningful target the opponent and those summons have Hit H and Pen H, so they wont ever contribute
 
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This all has some major flaws: the constructs have Initiative G with Speed D. In our fight with Ji Rong he just jumped over Zhengui and there is no way these summons can keep up. So for this effect to trigger we have to hope the opponent charges at us in a way that keeps the summon between us and them. I dont know how often we can stack this tech, so I dont know how viable that strategy is. Also multiattacker bonus requires that a combatant can meaningful target the opponent and those summons have Hit H and Pen H, so they wont ever contribute
We should gt FZ+ to fix the minion speed issue.
 
This all has some major flaws: the constructs have Initiative G with Speed D. In our fight with Ji Rong he just jumped over Zhengui and there is no way these summons can keep up. So for this effect to trigger we have to hope the opponent charges at us in a way that keeps the summon between us and them. I dont know how often we can stack this tech, so I dont know how viable that strategy is. Also multiattacker bonus requires that a combatant can meaningful target the opponent and those summons have Hit H and Pen H, so they wont ever contribute

In addition the pipers can be direction to throw themselves in the path of attacks which would strike the user or their allies. Taking damage in their stead. This can fail if the attackers Hit exceeds the original targets avoid by too great a degree

Quoting it once again. It's us that direct them to throw themselves in the attack path, so it's our initiative that is used. Moreoever the check is between the attacker hit and the targer avoid, not the speed or anything of the construct. One should see them as defensive stacks, that offer some amount of music bonuses, rather than as summons.

Their attacks are irrelevant for their purpose, which is to provide one attack absorbtion.

As for the number of time one can use them, I don't see why they would be limited when others arts tech are not.
 
Quoting it once again. It's us that direct them to throw themselves in the attack path, so it's our initiative that is used. Moreoever the check is between the attacker hit and the targer avoid, not the speed or anything of the construct. One should see them as defensive stacks, that offer some amount of music bonuses, rather than as summons.

Their attacks are irrelevant for their purpose, which is to provide one attack absorbtion.

As for the number of time one can use them, I don't see why they would be limited when others arts tech are not.


Their attack is relevant for getting the multiattacker bonus you mentioned for buffing FSS. The summons have no relevant attack stats so they wont give the bonus.

Us directing them means they still have to move after we do. And they are slow. A fast attacker should be able to reach us while avoiding them, as they have no Taunt to keep the enemy focus on them. The hit vs avoid clash only happens if the summons are in a position to intercept (or do they teleport?)

As for the numbers we can have at any time, that depends on yrs, but if it is unlimited I guess you can keep enough around you to compensate for the poor speed, maybe?
 
Their attack is relevant for getting the multiattacker bonus you mentioned for buffing FSS. The summons have no relevant attack stats so they wont give the bonus.

Reading the tech you are discussing is usefull. It would tell you that they buff musics arts.

The figures bob and dance in time with the Anthem, or any other song the user plays, enhancing its potency, as well as any musical arts used by the players allies within Close Range.

Here.

Us directing them means they still have to move after we do. And they are slow. A fast attacker should be able to reach us while avoiding them, as they have no Taunt to keep the enemy focus on them. The hit vs avoid clash only happens if the summons are in a position to intercept (or do they teleport?)

The exact functionnement in the story of that ability is irrelevant, as we are discussing how it work mechanically. Mechanically they only use the avoid of the target and the hit of the attacker. Wether it work trough teleport, excellent sense of the timing, the birds thingy dancing in the path of the attack, the users hiding themselves or something more esoteric (after it doesn't specify physical avoid so it should work on spiritual attacks too) is completely irrellevant to the discussion.
 
Reading the tech you are discussing is usefull. It would tell you that they buff musics arts.



Here.



The exact functionnement in the story of that ability is irrelevant, as we are discussing how it work mechanically. Mechanically they only use the avoid of the target and the hit of the attacker. Wether it work trough teleport, excellent sense of the timing, the birds thingy dancing in the path of the attack, the users hiding themselves or something more esoteric (after it doesn't specify physical avoid so it should work on spiritual attacks too) is completely irrellevant to the discussion.

yrs said that no tech can be buffed to more than one letter above its original, which joyous toast already does. We dont need a new art for that.

Also the concrete way a tech manifests matters as it determine if a clash is initiated in the first place. An example: if the summons stand left and right from ling Qi and someone uses a SCS-like backstab on Ling Qi then it makes no sense to initiate the interception clash
 
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Something like that's already 10 arts. We don't have unlimited time/meridians here. This is also something that needs to be considered.
Drop MNO and ENM, and you free up room for a 2nd level stealth archive art and one more besides.

Packing things in too tight just means that we don't have the time and space to take advantage of future opportunities without backtracking.
 
yrs said that no tech can be buffed by more than one letter above its original, which joyous toast already does. We dont need a new art for that.

JT need two action to be set up tho, both of which do nothing to protect us.

Moreover 1) I am pretty sure that yrs said that tech couldn't buff the rank of an attack more than the rank of the buff tech+1. 2) potency means more than the rank of the tech, on hit, damage,... can be increased too.

Also the concrete way a tech manifests matters as it determine if a clash is initiated in the first place. An example: if the summons stand left and right from ling Qi and someone uses a SCS-like backstab on Ling Qi then it makes no sense to initiate the interception clash

Such backstab would enhance the on hit of the attacker, which might end up with the bird failing to intercept the attack.
 
"
  • negatively effected.
  • A general rule change, in that techniques which buff the rank of other techniques cannot increase them by more than one rank over itself. I.E Joyous Toast can raise a tech from B->A but not from A->S"
It is admittedly a confusing wording but the tech that gets buffed should be limiting here as Toast is only a C tech as the B->A increase makes no sense otherwise.

And i wouldnt see the start for PLR as a wasted turn as everything else also builds on it
 
Also keep in mind ghat Cai is going to give us some arts from her family's archives too. From a planning/gameplay standpoint, now is probably the time for yrs to give those to us so that we can properly work them into a build plan (and potentially why Cai wanted to talk).
 
This is the waiting-for-update degeneracy period, so here's something I need to get off my chest.

The way people have been talking about Domains have been really nettling me. Particularly, the myopic focus on the visual aesthetics. People seem to not grok what Domain being the foundation for a Way means.

As illuminated by Ling Qi's recent cultivation penalty, Domain determines what concept of person Ling Qi wants to be. Her base Domain is focused the concept of Home; that is to say, a person that can fulfill the purpose of a home. For Ling Qi, a Home is defensive at its core. Thus, she passively prevents and alleviates harm from acting on her family and close friends simply by existing. Thus, she impedes her progress towards conceptual purity when she attacks her family and friends.

In other words, when talking about Domains and arts, the focus should be on how the arts alters Ling Qi's beliefs of who a person that defends her family should be. When the slotting Argent Mirror came up, the modifications to Ling Qi's Domain were of Ling Qi's character: the Argent Mirror insight was "Be Honest to Yourself and Thus-"

There was no indication, at all, of a small meditation pool at the center of Ling Qi's mountain peak home or of a massive reflective moat guarding Ling Qi's mountain peak home.

I hypothesize that the fixation on visuals is based on the cool Domain fight between Shenhua and Suzhen — which really was pretty impressive. For all I am intensely irritated by the landslide decision to slot in Argent Mirror, the imagery of an imperturbable peak surrounded by a moat reflecting the truth of Ling Qi's enemies is nice. And it's fun to bandy around what world image would be the most awesome to fight with.

However, the discussion around what arts fit Ling Qi's Domain rarely seems to directly confront the fact that art/Domain compatibility lies in how easily the art's theme is congruent with "I am a person who defends her family."

Harmony of Dancing Winds, for example, was singled out as Domain Bait: the Art (Perception Edition) in the post-update discussion because its concept "I see connections between me and others" simply modifies Ling Qi's Domain statement into "I am a person who defends her family, and I do that by keeping tabs on them." The two concepts are easily related.

Similarly, Imperturbable Manor's Hearth is another Domain Bait Art. It's concept of "I defend people from spiritual malady" modifies Ling Qi's Domain statement it I "I am a person who defends her family, especially from spiritual maladies." IHM's theme is literally a more nuanced take on Ling Qi's Domain concept.

Posters already know all of this, I'm sure. But discussion of arts and Domains invariably center around the mechanics and imagery of the art. It's all "Argent Mirror is about Honesty and self-knowledge is good for cultivation!" or "Let's workshop the imagery of the Domain made from slotting in Ling Qi's core combat arts!"

Talk about Domain acts as if Ling Qi's Home is a physical place, a thing with substance, where she can put stuff or create as a physical location. But that's wrong: the Home is nothing but a metaphor for an idea that Ling Qi can increasingly symbolically realize as she incrementally becomes a natural phenomenon.

tl;dr The Home concept is a metaphor for "Ling Qi is a person who defends her family." Slotting an art into Domain modifies what kind of person Ling Qi thinks does that.
 
It is admittedly a confusing wording but the tech that gets buffed should be limiting here as Toast is only a C tech as the B->A increase makes no sense otherwise.

Fair enough.

And i wouldnt see the start for PLR as a wasted turn as everything else also builds on it

It's a turn during which we do not attack and do not defend. Sure, much like FVM, once the field is build up it's quite good, but we need to get to that point first.

Night parade and JT tech both have their uses, they are just different. Night parade is great for duels against ennemies like Ji Rong that are in your face, while plr is perfect if we have more time before getting hurt.
 
There was no indication, at all, of a small meditation pool at the center of Ling Qi's mountain peak home or of a massive reflective moat guarding Ling Qi's mountain peak home.

Our domain is not yet defined as anything more than coldness, a vague whisper of music, and warmth at the center of it all.

Our domain is simply not defined enough to be fully released into the world the way we've seen from Cai Shenhua, Bai Suzhen, and the Outer Sect Elders in that one RR interlude, and it won't be so defined until we reach Cyan.

That's enough for this post.
 
This is the waiting-for-update degeneracy period, so here's something I need to get off my chest.

The way people have been talking about Domains have been really nettling me. Particularly, the myopic focus on the visual aesthetics. People seem to not grok what Domain being the foundation for a Way means.

As illuminated by Ling Qi's recent cultivation penalty, Domain determines what concept of person Ling Qi wants to be. Her base Domain is focused the concept of Home; that is to say, a person that can fulfill the purpose of a home. For Ling Qi, a Home is defensive at its core. Thus, she passively prevents and alleviates harm from acting on her family and close friends simply by existing. Thus, she impedes her progress towards conceptual purity when she attacks her family and friends.

In other words, when talking about Domains and arts, the focus should be on how the arts alters Ling Qi's beliefs of who a person that defends her family should be. When the slotting Argent Mirror came up, the modifications to Ling Qi's Domain were of Ling Qi's character: the Argent Mirror insight was "Be Honest to Yourself and Thus-"

There was no indication, at all, of a small meditation pool at the center of Ling Qi's mountain peak home or of a massive reflective moat guarding Ling Qi's mountain peak home.

I hypothesize that the fixation on visuals is based on the cool Domain fight between Shenhua and Suzhen — which really was pretty impressive. For all I am intensely irritated by the landslide decision to slot in Argent Mirror, the imagery of an imperturbable peak surrounded by a moat reflecting the truth of Ling Qi's enemies is nice. And it's fun to bandy around what world image would be the most awesome to fight with.

However, the discussion around what arts fit Ling Qi's Domain rarely seems to directly confront the fact that art/Domain compatibility lies in how easily the art's theme is congruent with "I am a person who defends her family."

Harmony of Dancing Winds, for example, was singled out as Domain Bait: the Art (Perception Edition) in the post-update discussion because its concept "I see connections between me and others" simply modifies Ling Qi's Domain statement into "I am a person who defends her family, and I do that by keeping tabs on them." The two concepts are easily related.

Similarly, Imperturbable Manor's Hearth is another Domain Bait Art. It's concept of "I defend people from spiritual malady" modifies Ling Qi's Domain statement it I "I am a person who defends her family, especially from spiritual maladies." IHM's theme is literally a more nuanced take on Ling Qi's Domain concept.

Posters already know all of this, I'm sure. But discussion of arts and Domains invariably center around the mechanics and imagery of the art. It's all "Argent Mirror is about Honesty and self-knowledge is good for cultivation!" or "Let's workshop the imagery of the Domain made from slotting in Ling Qi's core combat arts!"

Talk about Domain acts as if Ling Qi's Home is a physical place, a thing with substance, where she can put stuff or create as a physical location. But that's wrong: the Home is nothing but a metaphor for an idea that Ling Qi can increasingly symbolically realize as she incrementally becomes a natural phenomenon.

tl;dr The Home concept is a metaphor for "Ling Qi is a person who defends her family." Slotting an art into Domain modifies what kind of person Ling Qi thinks does that.
I think I see what you're getting at, and I think Frozen Soul Serenade might be a more clear example of this. I've heard 'shelter from the blizzard' plenty of times by now, but under your ideas we would be more likely to be integrating 'everything ends' into our understanding of Home in some way.
 
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