- Location
- Colorado
Considering our rep with the Diao this is about as good a meeting as we could possibly expect. If we want her to not make us uncomfortable with power moves we need to put in the work to earn that.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- The Space Between
this is excellent! I suspect that the Diao scion didn't witness or know that we're all friends and also that Bao Qingling is in our relative circle. That's very . . strange if they intended to meet all three of us.
she raises my hackles in the same way it raises Su Ling's hackles, clearly a political animal used to playing the politics game, and being in someone else's position of power that you're a little untrained in is. Well.
it can be threatening.
We were already intending to reach out to the Diao, so it's a bit surprising that a scion of their's is making the first move.
However.
If she's offering something that can allow all three of us to spend time together again for mutual benefit that'd be great. I feel like that's something YRS would want to set up, but the question then is whether or not the Diao intentionally are setting it up that way?
Personally, I don't think so.
I think this is actually an accidental bump. Now maybe a higher ranked Diao knew the odds of this Scion showing up here and finding Su Ling and Suyin and potentially other talents, but us being here is probably a happy bonus for her.
So basically she's gonna be walking with us while we take Li Suyin (and Su Ling) around to meet some people. If the Diao scion was willing to keep away while Bao Qingling (Bao Scion) was there, I think her presence also prevents any of the other Political Count Scions from making attempts (if they don't challenge or appear a bit rude). We wanted to reach out to the Diao because we don't know their story, and we want to avoid the relationship souring. There's also synergy, as the Wang and Diao are both in contention for the old Ducal Li lands.
In any case, I think that if her offers allow us to work more with Li Suyin and Su Ling on a Diao project (perhaps Garden of Sinners) that'd be great.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for Su Ling, we really do need to talk to her more. I talked about it last vote, but we really compliment each other really well.
We express worry about tomorrows and plans for the future. Su Ling has been sorting out her views on Justice and engaging in the structures of Power she finds herself in. It seems that she's decided to engage in the acquisition of Knowledge at least, but has also decided that she'd rather find a different path entirely than continue using the powers she's honed from her own blood.
Su Ling is thinking about spending so much time and effort finding a way to remove her own spirit blood, and retrain herself in Imperial Style rather than the Power that's her own because "it's wrong"
Screw that.
We don't get to choose where we come from. We have the Freedom to choose what to do from there. With Power you can make more choices, and that includes the choice to be bound/connected to others or not. Su Ling is her own person, with her own blood. Her Power is her own, not her Mother's, and it's been used for Good and Just actions. That beast who devoured her father, it doesn't get to be called "Su Ling's Mother" unless Su Ling allows it. That's Su Ling's choice, that's her Freedom to choose.
she raises my hackles in the same way it raises Su Ling's hackles, clearly a political animal used to playing the politics game, and being in someone else's position of power that you're a little untrained in is. Well.
it can be threatening.
We were already intending to reach out to the Diao, so it's a bit surprising that a scion of their's is making the first move.
However.
If she's offering something that can allow all three of us to spend time together again for mutual benefit that'd be great. I feel like that's something YRS would want to set up, but the question then is whether or not the Diao intentionally are setting it up that way?
Personally, I don't think so.
I think this is actually an accidental bump. Now maybe a higher ranked Diao knew the odds of this Scion showing up here and finding Su Ling and Suyin and potentially other talents, but us being here is probably a happy bonus for her.
So basically she's gonna be walking with us while we take Li Suyin (and Su Ling) around to meet some people. If the Diao scion was willing to keep away while Bao Qingling (Bao Scion) was there, I think her presence also prevents any of the other Political Count Scions from making attempts (if they don't challenge or appear a bit rude). We wanted to reach out to the Diao because we don't know their story, and we want to avoid the relationship souring. There's also synergy, as the Wang and Diao are both in contention for the old Ducal Li lands.
In any case, I think that if her offers allow us to work more with Li Suyin and Su Ling on a Diao project (perhaps Garden of Sinners) that'd be great.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for Su Ling, we really do need to talk to her more. I talked about it last vote, but we really compliment each other really well.
We express worry about tomorrows and plans for the future. Su Ling has been sorting out her views on Justice and engaging in the structures of Power she finds herself in. It seems that she's decided to engage in the acquisition of Knowledge at least, but has also decided that she'd rather find a different path entirely than continue using the powers she's honed from her own blood.
Su Ling is thinking about spending so much time and effort finding a way to remove her own spirit blood, and retrain herself in Imperial Style rather than the Power that's her own because "it's wrong"
Screw that.
We don't get to choose where we come from. We have the Freedom to choose what to do from there. With Power you can make more choices, and that includes the choice to be bound/connected to others or not. Su Ling is her own person, with her own blood. Her Power is her own, not her Mother's, and it's been used for Good and Just actions. That beast who devoured her father, it doesn't get to be called "Su Ling's Mother" unless Su Ling allows it. That's Su Ling's choice, that's her Freedom to choose.
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TimEd
Meteor maker
No chance this is an accidental visit. Maybe in how she managed to get them all together, but even that is probably calculated on a likely bet. If the three of them really are persons of interests, then any information gathered would show them being close aquaintances at least.
Now to worry about their specific interest in Su Ling, if it is a negative of positive one, and it's likely reliance on Su Ling's spirit bloodedness.
Now to worry about their specific interest in Su Ling, if it is a negative of positive one, and it's likely reliance on Su Ling's spirit bloodedness.
- Location
- The Space Between
Well no. Su Ling is Inner Sect, and in any year but our year would have easily made it into Inner first year, she is a young talent that has no family/clan and accomplished a feat for the Sect that got her promoted to Inner immediately.
Suyin has a small family, but she does have a bloodline claim to the Li Mountain through her mother's side and, if she were willing to sign up with the Diao, would be able to grant the Diao the old Li lands if they're cleaned out. Especially since she seems to be going the Sect route. That could be "Garden of Sinners". Li Suyin, Su Ling, and Ling Qi cleaning a small portion of Li land on behalf of the Diao.
Which would, of course, be somewhat frustrating/worrying for the Wang. But it's reasonable to think that the Diao don't think we could untangle the situation without offending someone. If we even are aware of the troubles in the old Li lands (we are).
That would allow us to tie Li Suyin, Su Ling, and the various plots about securing the Road all together. That's all, technically, also related to the Diplo Summit. I think that's an excellent way to keep everyone in the story in an organic way.
This also rubs against all of Su Ling's Justice and Bloodline character stuff, if Li Suyin is going to be talked to about the legacy of Li and thus we have 2 of them with complex bloodline and then Ling Qi who's like "lol Bloodline? They don't get to take credit for me. I am my own person, Free from those connections unless I choose to take them up. Hecc the bloodline. You're both good people, and if you want to cannibalize any elements others think are yours due to the random circumstances of your birth, then go right ahead. But you're both Free to be your own people. That's what's up.
also I can and will adopt you as sisters if you want :lasereyes: I'll heccin do it don't @ me"
Suyin has a small family, but she does have a bloodline claim to the Li Mountain through her mother's side and, if she were willing to sign up with the Diao, would be able to grant the Diao the old Li lands if they're cleaned out. Especially since she seems to be going the Sect route. That could be "Garden of Sinners". Li Suyin, Su Ling, and Ling Qi cleaning a small portion of Li land on behalf of the Diao.
Which would, of course, be somewhat frustrating/worrying for the Wang. But it's reasonable to think that the Diao don't think we could untangle the situation without offending someone. If we even are aware of the troubles in the old Li lands (we are).
That would allow us to tie Li Suyin, Su Ling, and the various plots about securing the Road all together. That's all, technically, also related to the Diplo Summit. I think that's an excellent way to keep everyone in the story in an organic way.
This also rubs against all of Su Ling's Justice and Bloodline character stuff, if Li Suyin is going to be talked to about the legacy of Li and thus we have 2 of them with complex bloodline and then Ling Qi who's like "lol Bloodline? They don't get to take credit for me. I am my own person, Free from those connections unless I choose to take them up. Hecc the bloodline. You're both good people, and if you want to cannibalize any elements others think are yours due to the random circumstances of your birth, then go right ahead. But you're both Free to be your own people. That's what's up.
also I can and will adopt you as sisters if you want :lasereyes: I'll heccin do it don't @ me"
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I hope it's a group project. I really regret not taking the option to take Su Ling with us to meet people when she was promoted to the inner sect.
Fucking around was great fun. I wonder what further 'finding out' is going to be like.
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I'm fine with this. Frankly not everyone is going to keep up with Ling Qi and not everyone is going to be important or useful to us.
Anyways, this is great. Finally an opportunity to make connections with the Diao. We've been waiting for this for quite some time, and she seems amiable enough so far.
- Location
- United States of America
So, Li Suyin keeps moving up in the world! An apprenticeship under Elder Su will be pretty amazing for her, I'm sure. Access to even more knowledge on making the intricate arts of medicine and healing, access to rarer ingredients and regents, and access to the network of contacts, buyers, and suppliers that Elder Su has cultivated during her time at the Argent Sect.
Plug into that the first bit of tribute flowing from the Shishigui and Li Suyin's prominence in working with such materials, and you have a wonderful combination for being propelled ever higher in value to the Argent Sect. As well as the Emerald Seas. As long as Li Suyin can keep up with this rocket ride and hold on, her future at the Argent Sect is all but assured.
Plug into that the first bit of tribute flowing from the Shishigui and Li Suyin's prominence in working with such materials, and you have a wonderful combination for being propelled ever higher in value to the Argent Sect. As well as the Emerald Seas. As long as Li Suyin can keep up with this rocket ride and hold on, her future at the Argent Sect is all but assured.
- Location
- Colorado
She is not that Li clan. At all. She has nothing to do with it.
If I'm wrong, please provide a quote from Yrsillar.
Edit: Okay, after doing my own research I'm seeing where this is coming from and I actually kind of hate Yrsillar a bit now. Li Suyin's art comes from her mother's side of the family. Her father's family name is Li, not her mother's. One of the things indicated in a recent chapter is that her flesh sculpting art may have originated from the dead comital Li clan. If you're going to make a character named Li Suyin have a meaningful connection to the Li clan just make her explicitly descended from them through the obvious connection. Going out of your way to specify that her Li clan is not that Li clan only to turn around and say 'sike they actually are connected somehow' is lame.
Sorry for being so abrupt with you in my initial post, but I'll note that even with this new information I'd overlooked we've got no confirmation of a blood connection, and even if there was it's probably not enough to get her recognized as the legal heir to those lands. You can get your hands on arts without being family of the creator of said arts, especially if the creators are too dead to stop you.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Primarily the difference in her reactions between the following two quotes-
She takes this like bad news.
She takes this like a supportive joke.
I think that she has made up her mind, and this was more an attempt to solicit support from her friends than us pushing her between two things she was unsure of.
- Location
- Australia
Maybe so. But just telling people what they want to hear all the time doesn't make you friends. Regardless of whether it was what Su Ling wanted to hear or not, we gave her our honest opinion with the best of intentions. If she chooses to draw away from us because of that then this friendship is not worth maintaining.
What makes you say that? Yes, last year was unusual, but even if we e.g. drop the top 4 people who were promoted to inner sect, I doubt Su Ling's ability to contend with the other 12 that we saw in the tournament.
As a reminder, the other people who made it to the round of 8 were:
- Shen Hu
- Ji Rong
- Gu Xiulan
- Kang Zihao
And among people eliminated earlier, we've at least got
- Chu Song
- Han Jian
- Han Fang
- Wen Ai
Was Su Ling even Peak Yellow at the time? I don't really see her competing here.
As a reminder, even now her claim to fame isn't martial prowess but rather her divination abilities, which wouldn't really help get her promoted normally.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
Li Suyin had just said this, right before the vote:
Which is hardly an unconditional show of support and suggests the matter was not set in stone.
As for her grimacing at our sentiment, that is... unsurprising? If she wasn't leaning towards eliminating her spirit blood we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place, and I don't think anybody voted for option 1 under the assumption she'd be thrilled with pushback. The hope is that providing pushback would be the right thing to do in much the same way that Su Ling has pushed back against us in ways that forced us to further think and grow, regardless of whether or not we ultimately agreed with her. As for whether things'll play out that way this time, only time will tell.
And while it is true that Li Suyin ultimately stepped in to diffuse the tension and provide support, rather than us, I'd think that at most represents an opportunity cost to growing closer, not a sign of us growing further apart. And while that may be a bit disappointing... Well, as far as I'm concerned, Su Ling's future is more important in this scene than going from buds to BFFs.
- Location
- Colorado
One thing to remember is that commoners as talented as Ling Qi and Ji Rong are supposedly as much of an outlier factor as so many ducals showing up. And Shen Hu should've reached the inner sect the year before. And the only reason Kang Zhao, Gan Guangli, and Lu Feng were around was because they followed the ducals here. In a 'normal' year the Golden Fields group probably would have been considered a significant outlier, but our year was so crazy it just isn't worth it to count them.
In a 'normal' year Gu Xiulan, Chu Song, Wen Ai, Han Jian, and Han Fang would've been shoe-ins for inner sect and there still would've been 3 open spots for people like Huang Da, Hei Boquin, Su Ling, and Hong Lin to fight over.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Or is she grimacing because she is remembering the underground mission and all the trials that it brought? There are different ways that sentence could be read.
Also I don't agree with your read that her mind was made up. Su Ling is not someone who requires the support of friends to do things. If her mind was made up she wouldn't be gathering opinions on it in the first place, she would just be telling us what she is going to do.
- Location
- The Space Between
you know she's production track, right? And she was a pill maker?
she'd be competing with Xuan Shi, Li Suyin and some others if she'd even competed. Don't thing she did though.
I took the difference being that she took our response as something that challenges her, and makes her grit her teeth because it's challenging
while Li Suyin has already made her challenge at another time, and is willing to help regardless of decision.
If her mind was made up in a way that wasn't challengeable, she wouldn't grit her teeth. This is still her decision, and it's not made yet.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Or, you know, she was unhappy to have to argue about it.
That was my read. For the people who read it differently, cool.
For the people who think that it's not worth keeping a friend around if they are disappointed when you don't support them doing what they want to with their lives, um, I guess I think you are bad friends.
That was my read. For the people who read it differently, cool.
For the people who think that it's not worth keeping a friend around if they are disappointed when you don't support them doing what they want to with their lives, um, I guess I think you are bad friends.
kinigget
Best Demon
- Location
- People's Republic of Portland
I honestly have to take issue with this a bit, since I don't think that's a fair portrayal of what happened here, and also...if you don't feel comfortable telling your friend you disagree with a decision they're making then you're not actually friends.
I think this went very well, all things considered. Also I am fully down to see where this stuff with the Diao goes.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
Could you perhaps not argue that someone is wrong about their real life views on the meaning of friendship because they're interpreting a fictional scene differently than you?
There are more polite and less unjustified ways to express disagreement, if you feel you must voice your disagreement at all.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
Mmm, there's always a balance to be struck between being honest and being needlessly aggressive when discussing conflicting views on IRL-relevant stuff, and the line between those extremes can seem fuzzy at times.
But if someone says they wouldn't be comfortable doing [thing] with a friend, there are only so many ways to interpret the flat assertion that you're not real friends if you're uncomfortable doing [thing].
That being said, it's easy to lose sight of how targeted a statement might appear from the other side if you're not actually thinking about targeting anyone in the first place. So no worries, it happens.
But if someone says they wouldn't be comfortable doing [thing] with a friend, there are only so many ways to interpret the flat assertion that you're not real friends if you're uncomfortable doing [thing].
That being said, it's easy to lose sight of how targeted a statement might appear from the other side if you're not actually thinking about targeting anyone in the first place. So no worries, it happens.
- Location
- The Space Between
okay but there are a few reasons, in story, for this to have happened.
First of all, everyone hated the Li Clan. They were a "medicinal" clan with the flesh-sculpting Arts that filled the Hui fleshmarkets with things that wouldn't otherwise be possible. Individual Li could perhaps be redeemable, but the only clan that "liked" the Li were the Hui. And the Li were wiped out as Counts because the Hui refused to lift a finger to help them against Ogodei when he kicked off his invasion by assassinating the Li Patriarch.
The old Li lands are heavily corrupted, and no Li has been able to gather power enough to attempt any degree of reclamation. Not that any of the contemporary Counts would tolerate someone from the main Li house attempting to return to power anyway. No. Instead you have small amounts of Li blood by marriage within the Wang and Diao courts that are arguing over the claim. These Counts would be able to clear out the corrupted halls of the Li, but neither would be guaranteed the spoils afterwards which means that the Li Mountain has been festering for hundreds of years. The one with the strongest claim was the late wife of Sect Head Yuan He, who was a Li. She never pressed her claim, and they had no children.
So you have Li Suyin's ancestor (forget if they're Grandfather or Great Grandfather) who had his Dantian shattered for unspecified crimes, passing his Arts (which are almost certainly Li Fleshcrafting Arts) onto Li Suyin as she goes off to Cultivation school. He has long forsaken the Li name, either because he was a Li married off, a Li outcast, had married into the Li and learned their Arts from his wife, or some other reason (like the Li being a deeply despised clan that would make rebuilding harder rather than easier).
Li Suyin's mom finds a successful commoner-cultivator that works at the Ministries for a husband, and he happens to have the last name Li. From the ancestor's perspective, this lets his descendants reclaim the Li name while laundering the baggage/scars, and he approves of the marriage.
now the Fleshcrafting Arts that Li Suyin showed us way back when were significantly too-advanced for her to fully understand. When she used the basics of them on Huang Da it freaked her out and I don't think Ling Qi knows how much she's studied them since. Because she's willing to support Su Ling despite disagreeing, I suspect she's willing to use the Li Arts for purposes such as: more easily testing on herself, confident she can repair any damage done.
Anyway, this brings things back to this Diao.
Entirely possible that this all has nothing to do with anything this Diao has to say, and may be completely unused as plot points. I think that'd be unfortunate since it lines up so nicely with other thematic and narrative elements, but who knows how much the Diao know about the descendants of the Li or how strong Li Suyin's claim would be.
We've known for a long time that Li Suyin had Li Arts from her mom's side. The interaction where she talked to us about those Arts was pretty early into Forge, so it's not like this is a twist. In fact, that confession was around the time Li Suyin wasn't sure she should continue to be a cultivator, because it wasn't anything like the heroic Immortals she thought it'd be. And the Arts kinda, made her second guess the idea that being an Immortal was a good thing because she looked into the Li and. Ooof.
Anyway. This hypothetical storyline would have to confront the question of whether or not Li Suyin is reclaiming the Li Clan Legacy or whether she's starting a new Li Clan Legacy and she just happens to have some blood from that other Li. A Li clan that will not be honored as if they're the same Li as the clan of her Father. Because that's a persistent question in this world. How much can an Individual separate themselves from all the ties that bind them, and how do you draw the lines between connection and separation, those Boundaries.
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