EternalObserver
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@Sentorian you've been going at this all day (and night). How about you take a break and tone down the aggression.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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[X] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?
[X]"Do you hate it because of it's link to your Mother, or do you hate it because it's wrong for you."
Approval voting
[X]"Do you hate it because of it's link to your Mother, or do you hate it because it's wrong for you."
Approval voting
Yeah yeah when you spend all day arguing with me and "explaining" things 5 times, it's fine. When I reiterate my stance I'm being obtuse and blocking you from sharing somehow
The statement that you are justified in sharing your opinions in any situation is by definition narcissistic. The characterization of Chinese culture as so direct that sparing others feelings is offensive is laughable.
I have spent literally all day engaging with you and all you want to do is wax poetic about how all your arguments failed to convince me, I must be deliberately dense. I must be malicious if I'm not agreeing with you!
You've spent the entire argument accusing me of deflecting, making claims about my intentions, doubting my sincerity and calling me obtuse, and I'm the one deflecting? After ignoring my arguments from the start?You claiming things does not make them so, whether it's your interpretation of his narrative or your claims about me.
If you seriously want to single me out to lecture and ignore the other half of this argument then fucking ban me and be done with it.
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EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
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The fact that that's how you're replying to me just proves my (and apparently many others here) point. You respond with my placating attempt with more aggression and imply that unless a qm or mod does it for you, you're not gonna stop. Please do not make us actually attempt that.
I'm calling you out because you're the main presence among the arguments, and to be frank, I see why
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CedeTheBees
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Can someone please do this? Every single post they made in this argument has been a slog to scroll through. It's like their deliberately taking the worst interpretation of everyone's comments to fuel their indignation. Chill please
Also:
[X] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though
[X]"Do you hate it because of it's link to your Mother, or do you hate it because it's wrong for you."
I do think she'd be happier without her fox features. I'm all for self-alterations.
What an attempt at placation. Show up in the thread with #sarcasm and then @ the guy you'll get a rise out of with a patronizing message. What a victim you are, what unprovoked horror has been wrought upon you. Truly a monster has been encountered that even your skills at reconciliation have failed.
Seriously though why would you go through and systematically like all (by which I mean 4 I guess) my comments and then take this stance. Did every single argument only become a slog halfway through? That's just weird.
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CedeTheBees
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Your points were sensible in the beginning. Then you started getting weirdly defensive and started digging yourself in and it was just awkward to read through. And it kept getting worse.
Disagreements aren't personal attacks. It's okay to disagree with someone without all this aggression.
Edit:
emoji to manifest chill vibes
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Huh, so you were cool with the narcissist thing and the China comments, those you liked, but it went off the rails sometime after that? "Every single post" after that I guess? Interesting
CedeTheBees
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It's more for politeness' sake tbh? I liked the previous comments so it's only fair to keep liking the chain.
Gave up once I saw you weren't stopping at that level. I have some standards.
CedeTheBees
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Exactly what I wrote down.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
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Holy…. You're responding to that sacrasm remark as if that's a personal attack on you in particular. FYI it's not; I was making a joke about how thread is on fire while I was gone. Or would you say that whole string of arguments were "great" in particular?
And yes I'm quoting you in particular because you just wouldn't stop. Yue and kinigget already noped out btw. That fact that you felt the need to point them out is really unnecessary. Heck
the fact that you decided to go defensive and go "but what about those other people. They did it too". The point is you need to chill. Just clear your head, take a break and come back when your aggression goes down.
Well damn, you sure roasted me with this whole…. thing.
CedeTheBees
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SV post reaction etiquette is important! Even if the rules are esoteric and vary by individual, it's important to be consistently inconsistent by liking posts with whatever arbitrary ruleset you feel like using that given day.
Edit from half a month in the future: This was meant to try and distract them out of arguing. Looks like it half worked. So yay!
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I mean you called me out 4 minutes after kiniggets last post, but yeah I in particular wouldn't stop. Just me.
Do you honestly think that's the right tact here to calm me down or is this just performative?
Edit:
Honestly man, you are a roller coaster. Like my posts into can someone please ban this jerk into there's an ignore button edit into you were making good points until they got cringe into getting rid of the ignore button callout in favor of chill vines.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
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My point has been loud and clear. Tone down the aggression and come back when you've calmed down. Do you need another way of delivering that point.
Nope nope, you did your job. Look everyone he really tried, went through the whole handbook, textbook mediation really. Loud and clear points yupyupyup
Giving face to the Bai here I see. They might not need the advantage - certainly this field is a miniscule effect - but if they're giving none, they'd have to make sure they give none anywhere.
A bow and a smile. Very expressive.
Its interesting that while the Xuan talk in koans, the Bai seem to be having two different dialogues whenever more than one of them is present.
Lao Keung is casually remarking on modern Xiao conditioning, which leaves as much personality as wet cardboard, and Meizhen affirms her stance on it.
Thunder based stealth. Will wonders never cease.
A loud, flashy opening to blind the enemy to subtle movements.
Also Sable Crescent Step apparently is a form of cat walk.
...given the eight crowns, the symbolism should refer to the eight kingdoms which Yao destroyed to gift Grandmother Serpent.
To call it the Vermin Extermination Stance is interesting.
And the doublelayered dialogue again.
Xia Anxi questions on whether Xiao Fen's choice of arts is a statement by Meizhen or whether she's just uncommonly lax. Meizhen gave a technically complete non-answer.
Theres a third layer here I can detect, but lack the context to parse. Probably the art's specific insights.
Detection grid art is certainly a good counter to Han Fang's ambusher build.
Seems to me that the nodes of fire are also terrain prepping for subsequent moves.
That is quite some leverage. Grabbing the frontlegs locks the tiger, the jaws cannot be brought to bear, nor can the front claws, and to use the rear legs would be to rob themselves of leverage.
It does take an incredible amount of physical strength superiority to perform however.
Brutal.
It seems at times the Bai culture is structured heavily around preventing a Yao from arising. Everyone rises skilled in the knives of high society, rather than the brutal and direct murder of old.
Mildly amusingly I cannot find the second conversation here. Guess he was a little poleaxed by Bai being so openly brutal.
Burst DPS really doesn't like to run into a DoT stall build.
Ask Ji Rong.
Another under-dialogue!
Lao Keung is obliquely suggesting that White Caste dominance might not be as firm now, as time passes.
Meizhen simple reiterates that Xiao loyalties remain unsurpassed.
Thats the Argent Storm finisher we've never gotten around to I think, stacked onto Pressure Crack. The ideal approach for breaching a tough defense.
Met with a ducal grade parry alas.
Counter + Poison. Be punished. Be afraid. Let doubt slow your blade and the poison spread.
Its just a friendly match. Busting out the ace cards is a bit extreme.
Lao Keung also just casually drops that Xiao loyalty shouldn't be taken for granted either.
AoE mass destruction/debuff move. Nasty, though it seems basically every Ducal grade contestant is packing one of those.
Gotta slap down the peons I guess.
Its not a lie, Xiao Fen appreciates it...as training.
Bulli resist is an important stat.
As we see later, the politics of this is extremely fraught.
No spiritblooded clan likes to hear talk of 'cleansing' them of their attributes.
Not even when the imperial stance disfavors spiritblood.
Spiritblood is an ethnicity in some places so deliberately removing(or adding) spiritblood other than by the natural means is going to smell like suggesting people change their skin color to the politics. Thats a helluva minefield.
It looks completely normal.
...I'm betting laser eye. Suyin has a lot of debuffs but no strong defenses. She needs a finisher.
Noting the relative positions of the people involved:
Su Ling is an extremely private person. The only people who know about her parental issues in her peer group are Ling Qi and Suyin.
As we can see here, Suyin has doubts about the procedure, and its not based in being squeamish about body modification. We're talking about the girl who COULD have had her eye regrown, and chose to replace it with a construct instead.
Qingling on the other hand focuses on an unwanted trait by birth. She had painfully keen sensitivity, and it bothered her, so she modified herself to not need to.
Option 1 is Qi's stance on unpleasantly gifted power, in her own case, the Bloody Moon's *gift* is like this, to a lesser extent.
Su Ling has used her bloodline divination to great effect, it had worked to navigate us through the underworld, and way back in first year - discovered the Argent Vent. She has used her senses to detect and save people back when the first shaman ritual to attack the Sect happened. She has taken the deceptive Lake affinity she didn't like and cultivated it into Mountain.
And now we have the tail. Something she actually does care for well - the few times it is on screen, it is well groomed(Biyu remarked on it). But she ONLY seems to get triggered whenever she sprouts a new tail.
So I'm fairly sure the spiritblood is a displacement activity for how much she hates her mother. Which is fair enough, but if thats the root of her Justice, I fear she may find it flawed later.
Option 2 is Qi's insight to let her friends make their own choices.
She cannot approve of it, it would not be sincere. But if her friend wanted it, she'd offer what help she can, even if she thinks its a bad idea.
Option 3(write in, not actually permitted)
...confronting someone about deep seated psychological flaws should be done in private and not at a mixed gathering of people.
E: Forgot to actually vote, how'd that happen.
[X] Su Ling was doing well already, she had already turned her blood to her own purposes. Why waste something you had already stolen? Wasn't it a better revenge to use your enemy's tools against them?
Straightforward, we've seen her do a great deal of unique good with her spirit blood, and she had already bent it to her preference in the Outer Sect and beat the shit out of her haters.
Just what the heck prompted this?
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She did call out feeling an itch; I assumed that she's getting close to a break point where she gets another tail, and the constant reminder is dragging her issues with her mother to the front of her mind on a regular basis.
She did have a lot of prototypes cooking last time we checked. Maybe she's got a whole collection of special eyes for different occasions.
A normal looking social one with insight buffs, a scary combat one with laser beams, maybe one for doing esoteric things like looking someone in the eyes and beaming horrific hallucinations into their brain, or one that sprouts spider legs and crawls out of her face to act as a spy/emotional support construct.
You know, normal everyday utility stuff.
[X] If Su Ling truly desired to rid herself of her mother's traits, so be it. She hoped Su Ling would be careful and seek advice and help if she was going to undertake such a project though
[X]"Do you hate it because of it's link to your Mother, or do you hate it because it's wrong for you."
I like this. I fully support the girl if this is who she wants to be, but if its just because she hates mom, that's self mutilation.
[X]"Do you hate it because of it's link to your Mother, or do you hate it because it's wrong for you."
I like this. I fully support the girl if this is who she wants to be, but if its just because she hates mom, that's self mutilation.
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No, you thought she had resolved her issues and accepted her spirit side. And the fact that she hadn't, that this is coming up again, that PURSUING THIS PATH OF CULTIVATION IS TRANSFORMING HER MORE INTO WHAT SHE HATES, is the real issue here. It can't be glossed over, and ignoring it is I think the root of why @Sentorian is pissed. There's a fundemental "oh, just get over it already!" associated with the arguments for the first option: any vote that acknowledges that she has a reason to hate what she is becoming and then goes ahead and says it should be a separate thing to useful power is dehumanizing.
To what point power?
The thread read her wrong. Her trauma was not resolved. Bluntly, expecting trauma to be "resolved" is kind of a mistaken viewpoint: trauma gets dealt with, and worked around, and defanged- it is never just ended or removed. We need to treat it as something that is just as much apart of Su Ling as the rest of her.
And I think it's this blindness to what it means to actually face this sort of a choice in real life that is the major unspoken irritant.
So yeah: the trauma "we" thought was resolved wasn't. Giving Su ling's drive is about ending her mother, this thing she is thinking about doing is 100% within her way: looking her mother and becoming her legacy is losing even as you win.
So I'd like to see a bit more respect for what Su Ling is thinking and feeling, and why she feels like she has to do this. It's the hand-waving of that as "oh, she hates her mom and she's reminded of it when she grows a new tail, she'll get over it" that bugs me.
XiaoYueMao
小月猫《🌙🐈》
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You, like Sentorian, are looking too deeply into option 1. its not handwaving away the problem, it's "im concerned you are about to do something drastic due to hatred of your mother. and we want to see you happy and not hurting because of your trauma with your mother"
option 2 is "oh, you have trauma? your unhappy? sure, go rip parts of yourself off and lets all ignore the pain your going through as if mutilation will solve all your issues. what good friends we are"
nobody is saying to get over it, we are saying we want to help her get over it and not pretend like the issue doesnt exist
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On one hand, fluffy fox Su Ling is something I love and want to see more of. I'd very much prefer many-tailed Su Ling to no tailed Su Ling.
On the other hand... This is cultivation, a rise towards white-ness. The higher you rise, the more parts of yourself you discard, in order to give more important to others. Su Ling has made it a point to rise beyond her spirit blood/nature.
Sprouting a new tail surely will take her higher in the path of cultivation, but it also brings her closer to her spirit nature, which she wants to break away from. There is a very real chance that if she keeps sprouting tails, the more human part of her, which she has been trying to nurture, will be what gets cut out in the end, and she'll return to her roots, which she wants to do nothing with.
It is no longer a 'symbolic' connection to her mother. The more she embraces her fox side, the more similar she'll grow in appearance, and possibly in mindset, to what her mother is. And she doesn't want to become THAT.
The longer she delays this, the more damaging it will be for her Way.
If we had the option, I wish we could ask Su Ling how far she is planning to go, cultivation-wise. If she plans to settle in green/Cyan and go no further, I'd go with 'keep the tails'. If she hopes to go higher, I'd go with 'I'll support you removing your tails'
On the other hand... This is cultivation, a rise towards white-ness. The higher you rise, the more parts of yourself you discard, in order to give more important to others. Su Ling has made it a point to rise beyond her spirit blood/nature.
Sprouting a new tail surely will take her higher in the path of cultivation, but it also brings her closer to her spirit nature, which she wants to break away from. There is a very real chance that if she keeps sprouting tails, the more human part of her, which she has been trying to nurture, will be what gets cut out in the end, and she'll return to her roots, which she wants to do nothing with.
It is no longer a 'symbolic' connection to her mother. The more she embraces her fox side, the more similar she'll grow in appearance, and possibly in mindset, to what her mother is. And she doesn't want to become THAT.
The longer she delays this, the more damaging it will be for her Way.
If we had the option, I wish we could ask Su Ling how far she is planning to go, cultivation-wise. If she plans to settle in green/Cyan and go no further, I'd go with 'keep the tails'. If she hopes to go higher, I'd go with 'I'll support you removing your tails'
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