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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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dycouza said:
I don't like Music as perception, that's much more the territory of MoSS and Social Arts. We chose RME over the Precognition themed CDP because it's not just about finding threats and secrets, it's also about academics and we had just decided the Hidden Moon to us should be about studying history and culture and learning from the past to grow stronger. So I could see RME's wisps to be Songseekers, representations of Ling Qi's curiosity that look for loot, songs and inspiration and share these things with their mistress. Like Sixiang shares their experiences with the Dreaming Moon, meaning they share all of our senses and not just sight. The wisps become something more than just moon eyes, drawn to expressive song and hidden secrets.

Inquisitive Study as it is now is capable of enhancing both sight and hearing, mostly concerned with discerning secrets whatever way possible, so we keep the base of it as is but with an addition to include "hearing" the Music of the world. Like we get a bonus to Perception whenever an active effect or technique gets triggered and can listen to the meaning of techniques around us as if they were a soulful composition. Which of course mean our wisps get that same ability. Add Erebeal's past sensing tech from two pages back and keep the scrying tech as is for now and we have an excellently thematic Art that's not Music so much as about Music.
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The trouble with that interpretation of the wisps is that's far beyond us at the moment. We simply aren't capable of sustaining qi constructs over any relevant distance nor can we give them the independence necessary to search for stuff on our behalf. We will might get there eventually but just because a Great Spirit can do it doesn't mean we can. Indeed the Moon seems to do this a lot more than most Great Spirits, suggesting that even Great Spirits find it difficult. It also seems really awkward on a narrative level: we are curious about something, we send out a wisp to look into it, it investigates, it returns, we investigate, and only then do we get the information? Yrsillar could make it so that LQ just generally has the wisps running around and reporting interesting stuff but right now people telling us stuff like that is a big source of interaction with other characters and I'd be sad to see that go.

I'm also dubious of the idea of an Art having both past sensing and scrying, that just gives even more things to juggle and it seems like it would never actually be used.

Regarding Music perception, I get the sense that we are agreeing but then you say you don't like Music as perception, so I'm confused. It makes perfect sense to me that, just as a vision enhancing tech might not involve shining bright lights at what you look at, a Music perception tech might not involve actually playing any music.
 
JohnnieBoy123 said:
The trouble with that interpretation of the wisps is that's far beyond us at the moment. We simply aren't capable of sustaining qi constructs over any relevant distance nor can we give them the independence necessary to search for stuff on our behalf. We will might get there eventually but just because a Great Spirit can do it doesn't mean we can. Indeed the Moon seems to do this a lot more than most Great Spirits, suggesting that even Great Spirits find it difficult. It also seems really awkward on a narrative level: we are curious about something, we send out a wisp to look into it, it investigates, it returns, we investigate, and only then do we get the information? Yrsillar could make it so that LQ just generally has the wisps running around and reporting interesting stuff but right now people telling us stuff like that is a big source of interaction with other characters and I'd be sad to see that go.

I'm also dubious of the idea of an Art having both past sensing and scrying, that just gives even more things to juggle and it seems like it would never actually be used.

Regarding Music perception, I get the sense that we are agreeing but then you say you don't like Music as perception, so I'm confused. It makes perfect sense to me that, just as a vision enhancing tech might not involve shining bright lights at what you look at, a Music perception tech might not involve actually playing any music.
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They don't need independence or range, they just need to represent it. Cultivation is about progress and if we just say what they are once we advance up the realms they become it. The original tech describes the wisps as "Expressions of the Diviner's curiosity, these wisps seek their parents interest eagerly." so what I'm saying isn't actually anything new, just rewording to specify. By saying they're parts of ourselves that wish to share their findings we justify how they act and our using their perception. By saying they are seekers of song and art we justify them sharing hearing as well as sight. By saying they're seekers of curious and hidden things we change their abilities in the narrative. No mechanical changes necessary but if we were to include it in our Domain in the future it would make a world of difference.

We won't actually get anywhere near the Dreaming Moon before Indigo+, what I meant is we're doing is that in miniature. By Cyan we might more easily create more complex spirits that share these aspects of Ling Qi's curiosity, because there's a huge difference between a ball of light doing something and a spiritual representation of [~all of that] doing it even if there isn't a mechanical difference we can write in an Art. We can include both clairvoyance and postcognition because among other things both are methods for finding and understanding things, one lets us sense them and the other how they came to be where and what they are, and together we have context of the world around us. Answering why you do things can let you do many varied things as long as you keep to the theme. As for the last point, yeah, we agree with each other, I was just unclear.
 
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dycouza said:
rts. We chose RME over the Precognition themed CDP because it's not just about finding threats and secrets, it's also about academics and we had just decided the Hidden Moon to us should be about studying history and culture and learning from the past to grow stronger.
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Not at all. We took it because we prioritised utility and scrying over using our perception art for combat, and also there was a degree of scepticism over the narrative use of precog.
 
JohnnieBoy123 said:
If we're keeping the Will o'Wisps and changing it to Music, what exactly are those Will o'Wisps doing? They seem most relevant to acute senses like touch and sight rather than ambient senses like smell or hearing. Even if we aren't actually using sound (and we probably shouldn't), Music would probably be the latter.
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If the Will o'Wisps can hear things, we could use them to locate where a sound comes from more precisely? Locating something based on the delay of a sound reaching several different locations is impossible for a human, but it's the kind of thing a cultivator could do.

It's the best I can think of anyway.
 
Ok, here's the quick and dirty way I would simply replace projection with music in RME:
Edits in bold.
Inquisitive Study: D
Duration: Persistent or Upkeep 2
The user channels qi into their eyes and/or ears as they study the object of their curiosity, reading the song of its qi. The user's perception increases greatly for up to two tests in a single scene, allowing them to discern many details that they might otherwise miss.

Seeking Moon's Eyes: C
Duration: Persistent
Song is woven into eight reflective silver wisps the size of a coin. Expressions of the Diviner's curiosity, these wisps seek their parents' interest eagerly. The wisps ignore wholly physical obstacles but cannot travel further than Very Far distance from their creator. The creator may see and hear from the wisp's position as if they stood there themselves. This greatly increases their combat perception and grants a bonus to avoid in the areas within which this awareness overlaps.

Statblock
XX

Initiate's Viewing Pool: B
[Non-Combat]
Requiring a surface of calm water or a mirror at least two handspans wide, the user sings of a familiar person or place within fifteen kilometers of their current position. The user is able to view the person or location in clear detail with both sight and hearing with perception equivalent to their own base Perception. This viewing may be opposed by arts or talismans of various types, in which case the user's combat perception is used to determine success. With sufficient surfaces, the use may view up to three targets with a single use of this technique. The user may attempt to look upon an unfamiliar location or person(such as one merely described or seen in passing to the user), however the user receives two ranks down on their Perception when doing this, and only receives musical information even on success. Targets are not considered familiar until seen in person.

Alternatively the user may sing into being a surface of their own to use on the fly, but using the technique this way causes all perception checks to be made at one rank down.
 
Erebeal said:
Ok, here's the quick and dirty way I would simply replace projection with music in RME:
Edits in bold.
Inquisitive Study: D
Duration: Persistent or Upkeep 2
The user channels qi into their eyes and/or ears as they study the object of their curiosity, reading the song of its qi. The user's perception increases greatly for up to two tests in a single scene, allowing them to discern many details that they might otherwise miss.

Seeking Moon's Eyes: C
Duration: Persistent
Song is woven into eight reflective silver wisps the size of a coin. Expressions of the Diviner's curiosity, these wisps seek their parents' interest eagerly. The wisps ignore wholly physical obstacles but cannot travel further than Very Far distance from their creator. The creator may see and hear from the wisp's position as if they stood there themselves. This greatly increases their combat perception and grants a bonus to avoid in the areas within which this awareness overlaps.

Statblock
XX

Initiate's Viewing Pool: B
[Non-Combat]
Requiring a surface of calm water or a mirror at least two handspans wide, the user sings of a familiar person or place within fifteen kilometers of their current position. The user is able to view the person or location in clear detail with both sight and hearing with perception equivalent to their own base Perception. This viewing may be opposed by arts or talismans of various types, in which case the user's combat perception is used to determine success. With sufficient surfaces, the use may view up to three targets with a single use of this technique. The user may attempt to look upon an unfamiliar location or person(such as one merely described or seen in passing to the user), however the user receives two ranks down on their Perception when doing this, and only receives musical information even on success. Targets are not considered familiar until seen in person.

Alternatively the user may sing into being a surface of their own to use on the fly, but using the technique this way causes all perception checks to be made at one rank down.
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That feels like something that would work at, like, Red. But at Green, an Art can provide Insights, and that means it's as much a representation of a way of life as anything. You can't change the aesthetics of an art without deeper mechanical implications any more than you can reach into a person's brain and just change a preference or two.

I mean, for example, RME is about learning and discovery. How do you work music into that, when music Arts are about taking a concept and refining it into its most perfect expression? You can be surprised by a song while you're still learning it, but past a point, "discoveries" can only still happen if you're changing the song. Maybe you can work learning and discovery into the concept if you freestyle and improvise the piece every time, but what are the mechanical implications of that?
 
Anderein said:
I mean, for example, RME is about learning and discovery. How do you work music into that, when music Arts are about taking a concept and refining it into its most perfect expression? You can be surprised by a song while you're still learning it, but past a point, "discoveries" can only still happen if you're changing the song.
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I disagree with this. I don't really understand where you got the idea that music arts are about seeking some kind of perfect expression. Music arts are about expression, but they don't seek some kind of perfection. Instead they seek to communicate the emotions of an event or idea, rather than anything physical. FVM for example seeks to communicate what the wanderer was feeling as he died. Where the vale was, or what hunted him, doesn't matter to the art. That's why we could shape and change the monsters in the mist. Art is not about perfection, because there is not a perfect example of an emotion, each person is different so each person will experience emotion differently.

This relates back to RME in that if you want to craft a piece of art, a piece of music, for someone, or situation, then you need to learn about how that person experiences emotion. The more you study a person or situation the better a song can be crafted to resonate, or reflect, what is being studied.

TDLR Music does not seek perfection, it seeks to communicate. Studying allows music to better communicate.
 
I'm leaning towards the Drug Fueled Adventure atm. Why are people so eager to mod RME? What does that gain Ling Qi? I'll admit to not feeling much love for the suggested modification to the current aesthetic, but maybe I'm missing something.
 
P_Tigras said:
I'm leaning towards the Drug Fueled Adventure atm. Why are people so eager to mod RME? What does that gain Ling Qi? I'll admit to not feeling much love for the suggested modification to the current aesthetic, but maybe I'm missing something.
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With our cultivation art modding adds success to our spiritual cultivation. Normally we are capped with how effective spiritual cultivation is. Art modding let's us sneak past that.
 
Borrowing from Erebeal for my own version, how about something like this:
Edits in bold.
Inquisitive Study: D
Duration: Persistent or Upkeep 2
The user channels qi into their eyes and/or ears, allowing them to hear pieces of the Music of the world. The user's perception increases greatly for up to two tests in a single scene, allowing them to discern many details that they might otherwise miss.

Seeking Moon's Eyes: C
Duration: Persistent
Song is woven into eight reflective silver wisps the size of a coin. Expressions of the Diviner's curiosity, these wisps seek their parents' interest eagerly. The wisps ignore wholly physical obstacles but cannot travel further than Very Far distance from their creator. The creator may see, hear, and sing from the wisp's position as if they stood there themselves. This greatly increases their combat perception and allows them to use a wisp as the origin for Musical performances instead of themselves, though Techniques lose two ranks of range.

Statblock
XX

Initiate's Viewing Pool: B
[Non-Combat]
Requiring a surface of calm water or a mirror at least two handspans wide, the user listens for the song of a familiar person or place within fifteen kilometers of their current position. The user is able to view the person or location in clear detail with both sight and hearing with perception equivalent to their own base Perception. This viewing may be opposed by arts or talismans of various types, in which case the user's combat perception is used to determine success. With sufficient surfaces, the use may view up to three targets with a single use of this technique. The user may attempt to look upon an unfamiliar location or person(such as one merely described or seen in passing to the user), however the user receives two ranks down on their Perception when doing this, and only receives musical information even on success. Targets are not considered familiar until seen in person.

Dreaming can replace the need for a reflective surface, but using the technique this way causes all perception checks to be made at one rank down.

The idea is that we add a passive Music perception ability, the ability for LQ to get a bit more range for her death fields at the cost of area, add a hint of the Dreaming Moon, and try to expand on our HDW insight by not just accounting for other people hearing our Music but also acknowledging them as creating Music of their own.

Given current stats, our wisps are not going to be terribly effective centers for our death fields (Health G dies way too easily) but presumably they will actually be tough enough to be relevant once we master the Art (which I think is a prerequisite to modding an Art anyway?).

Edit: this would probably take the form of modding Music in for Academics or Clairvoyance.
 
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JohnnieBoy123 said:
Edit: this would probably take the form of modding Music in for Academics or Clairvoyance.
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We're modding out "projection". Part of why I also made sure to make the conjuration bits song-based.

I wouldn't object to starting the "use wisps as vehicles for techniques" thing now if we could, yeah, since that was ultimately my long term goal anyway - though I hadn't thought of using it for more than just HDW.

Less keen on sticking Dream in there though. That feels like more of a seperate mod, and one which I'd be a bit skeptical of. Not necessarily opposed much longer term, but I don't really see the value of such a small change there. IF I were to try to stick it in, I'd probably stick it in at the start, something like:

"Requiring a surface of calm water or a mirror at least two handspans wide - whether in the real world or Dream - ..."

but honestly you could probably make an argument for being able to use Sixiang's lake even without that :p
 
Erebeal said:
Less keen on sticking Dream in there though. That feels like more of a seperate mod, and one which I'd be a bit skeptical of. Not necessarily opposed much longer term, but I don't really see the value of such a small change there. IF I were to try to stick it in, I'd probably stick it in at the start, something like:
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I feel like it's just weird to have a Moon and Music tech that takes advantage of mirrors (and, arguably, altered states of consciousness) that isn't associated with the Dreaming Moon. It also opens up the possibility of divinatory dreams, if Yrsillar wants to go there.
 
Is turn 12 going to happen within Sect territories? Or do we start with the Southern clans and then move to the Sect?
 
And how are the lands of the Ice Witches organized?

yrsillar said:
Ling Qi drank in the details as Cai Renxiang and the Emissaries spoke on the placement of the valley and its geography. It didn't show much of their lands. She saw the mark for this place and dozen similar marks dotted throughout the southern Wall, the furthest east was well south of the grave, and the furthest west looked to be south of the Western Territories. Most were clustered in the area directly south of the Luo lands. It mostly showed the delineation of territory between the Sibiar and the Alaniar, with this region being a neutral strip, the Alaniar's lands being further to the south and west.
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In this way?



Or better this way?



#ThePaintPower
 
Juli Freixi said:
Hello everyone!!

I have some questions... Which path did Ling Qi take on his journey to the ice witches?



And where exactly is the Hui ruin?
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For this one I think it's pretty safe to say that we took something similar to route B, as A and C are far too out of our way. We traveled through Sect territory into Nomad territory to the south, and broke off to head due south through the forest with the ruins. The Hui ruins should be due south of the sect, perhaps around where the e is in "the Wall". That would be my best guess.
 
Elsecaller said:
For this one I think it's pretty safe to say that we took something similar to route B, as A and C are far too out of our way. We traveled through Sect territory into Nomad territory to the south, and broke off to head due south through the forest with the ruins. The Hui ruins should be due south of the sect, perhaps around where the e is in "the Wall". That would be my best guess.
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Oh, great!! It make sense... Thanks a lot for the info and answering me!!!
 
By this point, I'm pretty sure the two hours have passed
Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Mar 15, 2021 at 2:43 PM, finished with 249 posts and 62 votes.
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