Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
They're not going to assist something they straight up called a demon directly

That is a prediction we can safely make

Which is why she'll be fine dueling the ground-bound and Construct-using G7 Shishigui.

Based on what?

How do you know such a trade would occur when theres still Dancers about?

So what?
The point of the comment is that if they wanted the stone they would be going for it, they are still relatively fresh and want others to join them and by either helping retrieve the stone or taking out CRX at the "cost" of the Shishigui as well will only help their case. They have the initiative right now to choose any action they want and that includes punching us, hitting CRX because they also hate the Empire if not as much as the Shishigui, or slapping the winner of the Duel because they dislike both sides of it and taking out either one is a win for them. There is no decision they make aside from "sit on their thumbs" that isn't going to end bad for us and if they decide they have a horse in the race they'll act and by definition it will be bad for us due to their dislike of the Empire and anything they do is going to lead to eventual harm.

And yes, she has dispels that work well against peers but she is already beginning to run into issues with how Anti-Dispel we were getting back on turn four and a construct-based fighter who uses corruption as his fuel source at G7 is almost certainly going to have some additional resistances that don't rely on just his raw Cultivation bonus. She is going to be spending qi...
"...more freely than I would like," Cai Renxiang replied from somewhere within the dust and dancing beams of light. "There is value in narrowing an opponent's options."
And as she comments back on turn four, this is going to start narrowing her options as she is forced to rely on Dispel techniques to stay in the game when failing to do so let's him start building up his pile of constructs.

And a trade of Ling Qi's blood and qi for CRX's is a pretty obvious part of supporting somebody and the Dancers are going to be about without care for whether we leave to help or not because they are sneak attackers a la the D&D Shadowlord prestige class and do a ton of burst damage before retreating or attempting to attack and debuff via poisons. If they were going to jump just Ling Qi at the stone, we're going to get jumped either way and take the same hit as if we had taken it when helping CRX but now we don't even have the reward of having helped CRX at all in bringing down the major strong point of the current battlefield obviously excluding the Cyan. The argument of "____ will turn to attack CRX and ourselves" suffers the same dilemma of, "We were already expecting to fight ____ to keep them from fighting CRX". We expect to fight the Dancers already since otherwise they would be attacking CRX and choosing to help her with the G7 means that maybe they do but some of the other forces here attempt to move the Starstone which removes them from the combat equation if temporarily and makes the current fight easier while keeping the Starstone recoverable since it has to be transported overground or in-air if we can take out the G7.

Knowing that CRX is more capable of helping on our reinforcements comes from knowing that her buffs are much more specialized in actually boosting almost all relative combat-stats as evidenced by her specifically training at various time with doing so including our BINO fight when she did so for the squad that came with us. Seeing how she fairs another rank up and what potential Art increases she might have gained and I can't imagine she came to an assault without them as she's not an idiot.

And with regards to "So what" if she's a Commander/Disruptor tied up in combat:

That's going to be big, especially because again CRX has dispel techniques which can start stripping the Bardbarian's efforts.
And again, she has far better Team-Buffs than we do for large combat.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.

If Zhengui has self-esteem issues after this fight that was almost tailored for him to kick ass and take names, I don't know what else can be done.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
"Core Disciple Jia Song, ordered us into the breach," Cai Renxiang continued as if she had not been interrupted. The Jia were still allies, they would not suffer much censure for this, nor did she wish them to. To hold a grudge such as that was not only inefficient, but the seed of the thoughts that lead any ruler to vice. "As this was a military matter. I raised a point of contention, but did not disobey commands. We descended, and confronted the retreating enemy. It was a slaughter, however, our distraction was used to strike at the Core Disciple Jia Song, and further reinforcements waited in the tunnels. There were three casualties among the Inner disciples, one of which later became a fatality. However, in the battle an enemy commander emerged. I estimate that he was of roughly framing stage in cultivation. We dueled, and I took his head," Cai Renxiang let out a careful breath. The tunnel claustrophobic and dark, lit only by her own radiance. The darting figure in the shadows, and the envenomed edge of his knives returned to her. It was good that she had practiced so against a foe of similar mobility.
As a remainder, CRX "best feat" was against a Green 5 when she herself was G3. This is a G7 when she is G4, and the differences between G7 and and G6 should be larger than G5 and G3, considering the cultivation requirements:
-Early(1) 1200 XP
-Appraisal(2) 2400 XP
--4 domain Insights
-Foundation(3) 4800
--5 Domain Insights, at least one advanced
-Threshold(4) 6000
--Domain Rank C, 7 Insights
-Framing(5) 7200
--10 Insights, at least three of which must be advanced. Successfully created and mastered a Successor art of at least Green 3 potency and a Max level of 5, Domain B
-Formation(6) 8400
--Complete Domain Name Quest
G3 needs 4 domain insights, G5 needs Domain C and 7 insights (1 advanced).... and G7 need Domain Name Quest, 10 insights, 3 advanced insights, Domain B and a personally crafted successor.

Of course, there cultivation system is different, but we can assume a similar disparity. The one good thing here is that CRX's first strike helps a lot.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.

The entire purpose of us coming on this mission was to present a picture to the sect of CRX and LQ working together. Additionally, there are two dancers looking to cause trouble and CRX, ducal though she may be, will struggle to maintain parity with a cultivator three stages her senior let alone when they inevitably target her to free the G7 shishigui. I acknowledge that CRX does have Liming to fall back on, but that is a cost we should be going all out to prevent her from having to pay. There is no question but that LQ doesn't have a huge amount of damage to add to the fight, but we do add a lot of nasty debuffs, and we are an excellent qi debuffer, which will swing the scales more in the favour of CRX. Make no mistake, even with both of us, our domain fully unfurled, and all our spirits, CRX will still struggle with the shishigui, but it gives us the maximum chance of CRX being able to gank it, and our defence buffs at close quarters should help shield CRX from arrows etc. from the flying barbarians which we wouldn't be able to easily do from a distance.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
Oh damn, that's why those arrows are so dangerous. That's some Shivering Arrow shit right there.
The idea of these Commander killing arrows is probably from the game Dominions, but I do not have enough point to speculate further.
My main problem with the fortress idea is that we're building it around something we know messes with Qi. So we have a rock that will constantly be trying to degrade the fortress in the middle of it.

[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.

Even so, Ling Qi was made for mulching mooks, not fighting higher tier cultivators. Being a mobile defense point is what she does best, if I understand the math cabal right.
Correction: IC Ling Qi made herself unintentionally to mulch mooks!

[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.
 
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[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
I honestly think both options are going to hurt. But hopefully this will give a better ratio of gain to pain.
 
[] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.

Think I realized why I've been feeling ill at ease with this vote. Fortressing up is fine, we've got the tools, it's the other part of the plan's goals.

"Drive the barbarians away from [the fortress] and "try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel" are mutually exclusive goals. Enemies at the fortress are enemies not attacking Renxiang, but we're trying to get enemies away from the fortress. Trying to eliminate enemies interfering with Renxiang, who is away from the fortress, is time spent not fending enemies away from the fortress. They're incompatible.

So what I think the vote is trying to say is something more like "Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it, [but] try to eliminate any [of those] who would interfere with Renxiang's duel." That is, the enemies we're trying to eliminate is just the subset of those that we drive off from the fortress who look like they're going to try interfering with Renxiang's duel instead. Which makes sense, since those are the enemies we can actually realistically try to reach without abandoning the fortress. It's not blanket coverage for Renxiang, it's just a commitment to not making her situation worse by sending enemies her way.

Anything else splits our attention too much and doesn't make sense in terms of spacing. If we're in range with our same-turn movement or tech range to be covering Renxiang's duel from all sides, then we've effectively joined that fight(we'd be in range of the G7s techs ourselves, for one). Which is what the other vote is, so that can't be right. The fortress is a single hard point on the edge of the battlefield, so if we're committing to that, we can't sensibly be buzzing around Renxiang's fight to keep people off her back. If that's what the vote was, we'd be spending significant amounts of time effectively split off from our spirits, which makes little sense because Ling Qi is prioritizing sticking close with her spirits in both cases. It would also basically make this vote the "do both things" option, which is silly.

Again, this vote is not the general "cover Renxiang" option. However, it's reasonable to conclude that by being an enemy force occupying the rock, our opponents will commit greater numbers to it, which indirectly keeps heat off of Renxiang. Passive cover, yes; active cover, no. It's infeasible with the layout of the battle.

[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.

I don't favor this vote by a wide margin, but currently I'm leaning towards it. My main concern is the enemy forces should be getting their buff chains started for serious at this point, and I don't want to fall behind there. We know that doesn't turn out well. It's fairly likely the shishigui representative won't be benefiting from the buffs on the enemy side of the fight, but I'm still concerned about others joining in or picking at the sides: something Renxiang absolutely cannot afford.

Backing up Renxiang means contributing our buffs to her defenses, including against wide-scale spiritual assaults from shamans, and us and our spirits benefiting from her really nice buffs. It also means directly and actively making sure others don't interfere with her duel, while supporting her as able, and being a dream-port safety line if necessary. Our role here would not be to beat up the G7, per se. Our goal if we join up with Renxiang is to be really incredibly obnoxious and troll anyone trying to get in on the action.

There's two main risks with this approach. One, the bigger in my mind, is the danger of bringing our spirits close to a G7. The second is the nomads managing a strategically significant run on the starstone in our absence, and us having to make a gamble later on to secure it, or even missing the chance entirely(though there's still the perimeter group as a second opportunity). However, right now I'm worried about getting drowned in multiple peer-Greens chain-buffing anyway, which I don't consider to be significantly less dangerous than a G7.

@picklepikkl Incidentally, I decided to look up my Discord rock-moving speculation, and it's amusingly more prescient than I recall:
ABEO NO NAD ABEO07/21/2020
We can just push the stone around with blizzards
Just push it through enemies in our way, tbh
ABEO NO NAD ABEO07/21/2020
Or Zhengui can erupt volcano under it
ABEO NO NAD ABEO07/21/2020
Nothing could go wrong
ABEO NO NAD ABEO07/21/2020
Nothing could go wrong with volcanoes and plot rocks
[image of Kars floating in space] Nothing
And no less funny because the suggestion was purely for the sake of making JoJo references.
 
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[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Jul 25, 2020 at 8:26 AM, finished with 195 posts and 94 votes.
 
[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.
 
I want us to change the direction of our way into something that involves 'yeeting'

Yeet your problems away.
If that is not enough, yeet them in environmental hazards like lava.
(Gently) yeet your loved ones to you.
Support your loved ones by yeeting them to greater heights


Basically, for every vote in this quest I am now going to have a part of me that goes "is this vote going to increase the chance of seeing some yeeting going on in the text" :/
 
I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but the G7 is probably not the only one who can move the stone around even excluding the improvisation we did earlier. The 12 star folks have like 11 of these things. They clearly have some way of moving around and dealing with big radioactive rocks. So I feel it to be a little early to assume that only the G7 tunnel boi can move it around.

[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
 
I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but the G7 is probably not the only one who can move the stone around even excluding the improvisation we did earlier. The 12 star folks have like 11 of these things. They clearly have some way of moving around and dealing with big radioactive rocks. So I feel it to be a little early to assume that only the G7 tunnel boi can move it around.

[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
The Shishigui's whole offer is that they have expertise the Cloud Nomads lack. Cloud Nomads aren't very good at earth stuff. You're right that it doesn't mean nobody else can move the thing, but the Cloud Nomads pointedly do not have ways of easily accessing the big deposits.
 
[X] Assist Cai Renxiang immediately, bringing your spirits with you. Ducal heiress or no, he has three stages on her. He seems to be the only one who can immediately pull the starstone out of play anyway.
 
I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but the G7 is probably not the only one who can move the stone around even excluding the improvisation we did earlier. The 12 star folks have like 11 of these things. They clearly have some way of moving around and dealing with big radioactive rocks. So I feel it to be a little early to assume that only the G7 tunnel boi can move it around.

[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.
Just because they're named '12 Stars' doesn't mean they currently have 12 of these things. That could just be referring to treasures their founder possessed or any number of other explanations. Although they clearly have some supply of this stuff if a 4th realm can have a mask made of it.

However I agree with your general point, if we can improvise a way to move it I'm not betting against any of the other G3+ people here working something out.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.

The more attention we keep on ourselves, the better the fight should go for others. We want people to come and try to take this stone from us, as that means that they won't be trying to interfere in Cai Renxiang's fight or Guan Zhao's fight. Furthermore, we've seen that we have drawn at least a fraction of the Cloud Nomad's attention to us, which is good, so long that we can survive it, as that means less attention to his fight with Guan Zhao.
 
[X] Fortress up with Zhengui around the starstone, drive the barbarians away from it and try to eliminate any who would interfere with Renxiang's duel.

Meh, makes more tactical sense.
 
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