Sirrocco
Pedantic
I want to hear Xiao Fan's take. I'm sure her insights on the matter would be useful.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
TimEd
Meteor maker
Riiiight I forget that Xiao Fan also has that dude following her around.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
The only thing I want to take less from the Bai than relationship advice is Domain Insights.
- Location
- Finland
I did mention them being hands off.
Moon is not going to help Ling Qi with direct confrontation, but that does not mean Moon can't, or won't, help in other ways.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
I'm pleasantly surprised that there is an inclusion of another fan made character
More pleasant surprise with Ma Jun having a crush and Ma Lei apparently hanging out with Xiao Fen (despite injuries)
Well, not so much "fan made" as they gave him a name and narrative (he's the same spear guy who was manipulated by Lu Feng in the tournament and stabbed GG)
More pleasant surprise with Ma Jun having a crush and Ma Lei apparently hanging out with Xiao Fen (despite injuries)
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Still... there is symbolism here as well. The Weilu traditionalists are still... ill at ease with the new leadership. Ling Qi has been presented to them as an attempt at tentative outreach, and the possibility of a voice for them in the highest halls of power. If she fails to live up to Shenhua's standards? Well, that's possible. It's the sort of possibility that people are already baking into their estimates. If she gets unceremoniously dropped from her current position because the Duke wants to flex in areas that are not hers by right to dictate? That starts to look like a significant slight against those following the Weilu ways.
Basically, it's not going to happen that way. The Cai (mother and daughter) are absolutely long-term planners, and If they had expected or intended to have declarative influence on who Ling Qi married, they would have approached this differently.
Now, I think that CRX, at least, has a reasonable expectation that Ling Qi will make a selection that would be good for the Duchy rather than bad for the Duchy, and will offer advice accordingly. She might not have the right to speak on the matter as our liege, but if we choose someone actively problematic, I think she'd be justified in feeling a bit betrayed by that as our friend. Still, that allows for a pretty wide range of options, and her concerns as future duchess do line up reasonably well with ours as Lady Ling.
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Ten hours on the road. Came back to an argument I thought defeated before the Cai vote over a year ago.
No, the Cai arent going to fuck us over just because. No, they arent going to micromanage LQ's personal life. It's objectively counter productive, and a waste of time to boot. Seriously, there are so many things more productive that shenhua could be doing rather than alienating her vassals.
No, they arent going to force a political marriage. Aside from the dubious at the very best gains, it sets a bad precedent before all your other vassals. Why is this absurd argument coming back from the grave?
No, the Cai arent going to fuck us over just because. No, they arent going to micromanage LQ's personal life. It's objectively counter productive, and a waste of time to boot. Seriously, there are so many things more productive that shenhua could be doing rather than alienating her vassals.
No, they arent going to force a political marriage. Aside from the dubious at the very best gains, it sets a bad precedent before all your other vassals. Why is this absurd argument coming back from the grave?
- Location
- the internet
None of them are saying the Cai would. They're just talking about whether or not she has that power. What rights and abilities come into play in a vassal-liege relationship.
Basically irrelevant.
Have the power or not, it's counter productive to alienate your vassals. If dukes didn't need vassals, most would not bother.
I mean, there probably is a set of codified rules somewhere, assurances like codified laws are big draws for vassals. But it shouldn't need to be consulted over something so common sense.
In any case. Have another eight hours on the road tomorrow. Gonna catch some z's. Please don't go crazy.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Safe driving.
- Location
- Colorado
Depending on how things go I'm fine with a relationship with either Bao Qian of Xuan Shi, but I just had a thought about a potential Xuan marriage that I wanted to share.
Given the clarification about Xuan Wu territoriality, let alone the fact that Zhengui probably wouldn't enjoy living in that environment anyway, us marrying into the Xuan is probably impossible.
However, Xuan Shi marrying into our clan is still perfectly possible even if he is an important rising star in their clan. While the Cai are probably the best rulers the Emerald Seas have had, they're a young clan and on the time scale an ancient clan like the Xuan plans on, their lumber supplies getting interrupted by the province having less steady leadership centuries or millennia in the future is a very real concern. Having essentially a distant branch clan over there willing to help keep supply lines open in such circumstances could be very valuable to them.
It's a gamble, we might not stand the test of time, but it's a gamble they'd probably be willing to go for if Xuan Shi wants it enough.
Given the clarification about Xuan Wu territoriality, let alone the fact that Zhengui probably wouldn't enjoy living in that environment anyway, us marrying into the Xuan is probably impossible.
However, Xuan Shi marrying into our clan is still perfectly possible even if he is an important rising star in their clan. While the Cai are probably the best rulers the Emerald Seas have had, they're a young clan and on the time scale an ancient clan like the Xuan plans on, their lumber supplies getting interrupted by the province having less steady leadership centuries or millennia in the future is a very real concern. Having essentially a distant branch clan over there willing to help keep supply lines open in such circumstances could be very valuable to them.
It's a gamble, we might not stand the test of time, but it's a gamble they'd probably be willing to go for if Xuan Shi wants it enough.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
That maybe works... if the branch clan survives, and also maintains friendly ties, and also actually has influence in the correct places to have an impact there. That last seems potentially unlikely, and neither of the first two are certain.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In this particular instance the branch clan is the Ling Clan, more or less, and that's welded directly to the Cai's hip. That sort of positioning seems like one that has a lot of potential impact, particularly with Bao business relationships being a possibility.
In my mind its more predicated on the first two than the third.
- Location
- Colorado
It's something that normally wouldn't be worth considering, but Zhengui is a very big foot in the door, a possibly once in a millennium opportunity. And if we reach Cyan half as fast as we're projected to we're probably going to form a stable baron clan that will most likely reach Viscount. I'm not sure if most new barons ever make it to Cyan. Staying Viscount depends on our descendants, and surviving political upheavals isn't guaranteed, but they might go for it.
I wonder how Xuan Wu territoriality works, whether it is it based on who they are raised with or if it is an instinctive response to different subspecies. If Ling Qi had spirit blooded children with Xuan Shi would Zhengui have an instinctive dislike towards them he had to suppress, or would he just consider them part of his shoal without any issues?
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
The vast majority of new barons don't reach Cyan. But reaching Cyan is not enough to elevate a clan to viscount. You need to reach indigo, I think, to automatically get promoted.
That said the problem of supplying wood isn't rooted in the Emerald Sea. It's rooted in everything between. That is one of the likely reasons the Xuan were pursuing a marriage with the Bai. They don't need a branch family here in the Emerald Sea they need one in Thousand Lakes to make sure the wood can reach them.
I really don't think that the Xuan are interested in pursuing a marriage with Ling. I made an effort post about that back in FOD and I stand by what I said there. Saying that Xuan Shi is clearly interested in us and the Xuan clan were easy going enough to let him pursue a book completion quest. I don't think the Xuan clan would block Xuan Shi from marrying us if they didn't have any better prospects.
I am not for Xuan Shi as a romance partner because I think that getting tied into two ducal politics is going to pretty annoying and I just like Bao better as a potential partner. Xuan Shi is really awesome and cool but I see a lot of tough times trying to reconcile two vastly different cultures with only a single turtle as common ground. Zhengui is amazing and can do a lot, but I don't think he could serve as the single common ground between the two given how much he snips at Xuan Shi.
If Ling Qi was also infatuated with Xuan Shi I would be willing to try it. It's going to be a long time before I think any of the characters are above lukewarm prospects given Ling Qi's track record honestly.
We are going to be around for a while and Biyu is almost guaranteed to reach Cyan (anyone with enough resources can get to Green and she has high talent), with it entirely reasonable for her to get to Indigo and thus Viscount herself. A baron clan with two Cyans is pretty damn strong as most only have one Green.
We would also likely get a fair amount of continued investment from the Cai to help build out our ranks. They almost certainly can't keep giving us more and more resources as we climb realms but helping us get more Greens than we honestly should as a Baron/Viscount clan? That's much easier.
As a bound spirit beast, he shares in our nature just as we share in his. I sincerely doubt that he will feel a instinctive dislike for our children even if an unbound Xuan Wu in a similar situation would.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
This is 100% not confirmed. We know Biyu has talent but until she starts cultivation, or YRS rolls it up, we don't know diddly about her talent.
- Location
- Colorado
I guess I should have been a bit clearer. Reaching Cyan at such a young age means we most likely get to Indigo eventually, but even before that a Cyan baron is going to be pretty damn stable, even ignoring our backers.
I thought she was confirmed to have higher talent than Qingge (and it has been stated repeatedly that anyone can get to Green eventually if you shove enough resources at them starting from early childhood)? I'm not saying that she will mirror our explosive rise or anything just that she is extremely likely to reach Cyan before she dies.
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- Location
- CA
We also don't know Qingge's talent. We don't know the formula for talent degradation with age, so we can't reverse-calculate Qingge's talent, but months to get red 1 is low. Higher than low can be basically anything.
Furthermore, the Cyan breakthrough is not a resource or talent gated barrier. She can just get stuck at Green completion or settle in mid-green like Xiulan's sisters have. It's likely, even.
- Location
- Space
We don't have any hard information on either Biyu's talent or what Qingge's talent was at our age. People reasonably suppose that the former is high because she could hear spirits and somewhat less reasonably but not wholly unreasonably suppose that Qingge must have had a high talent too since that's the most parsimonious explanation for both of her kids having a high talent.
Late red/gold is the highest rank that literally anyone can get to if you just give spirit stones. Anything past that requires some talent, and a great deal of time if they don't have very much talent. Conceivably someone with almost no talent could still reach higher realms if you both got them tons of pills for core cultivation and bought them lots of really expensive breakthrough assisting drugs and if they were willing to deal with the incredible pain of repeated failed breakthroughs even with the drugs, but it wouldn't be a good use of resources and would still take a long time.
That being said, I don't actually think that Biyu hitting Cyan some day is unlikely, just that if we're relying on it we're counting our chickens far too early.
So then are there a bunch of Red ducals out there?
- Location
- Washington
Talent is at least partially influenced by parentage, you're gonna get way fewer red ducals then you might otherwise expect by virtue of having at least one ducal parent.
- Location
- CA
Ducal families are huge. There are plenty of low talent members of branch families, yes. There are also low talent scions who are bankrolled to green, the last achievable stage with money, and stay there.
Ducal families also have modifications to their bloodlines which give them higher talents on average.