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- United States
[X] Defend and Counter
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Move and Reorient
Re-establishing stealth is a basic capability any serious stealth build should have. Just because we only really just got off our asses to do it, and specialize in arts that aren't the best at from-stealth alpha strikes so have/are dumping sneak attack bonuses, doesn't mean this guy has the same limitations.
I expect this guy to have both stealth resets and high DPS from-stealth attacks.
I expect this guy to have both stealth resets and high DPS from-stealth attacks.
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- Location
- United States
It depends entirely on how they benefit from unready vs unaware, as well as how easy it is for them to re-apply unaware.
Unready might buy them more than just a bit more damage, and re-entering stealth is unlikely to be a hard counter to dodging.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The big upside of Unready is the inability to trigger reactives. It's entirely possible for a stealth spec to do a big expense while the target is Unaware though to deny them their reactives as if the target was Unready however, and we already know it's possible to set someone from Unsure to Unaware.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
@yrsillar I do have a few questions about how that fight went.
- Why are we so low on qi? Didn't we just have a massive raft of mooks to drink? Or is it that draining qi from plague spirits is a terrible idea and we know better?
- What's going on with our domain weapon right now? I'd assume we would have pulled that thing out, as it really is the mook-masher domain weapon option, and we've been mashing mooks.
- Why are we so low on qi? Didn't we just have a massive raft of mooks to drink? Or is it that draining qi from plague spirits is a terrible idea and we know better?
- What's going on with our domain weapon right now? I'd assume we would have pulled that thing out, as it really is the mook-masher domain weapon option, and we've been mashing mooks.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ling Qi basically rolled in and goomba stomped the bunch here rather than dragged it out was my impression. The previous fights had her recoup some but also lose it moving between villages, so she evened out at about 50%
eternal-potato
He who vegetates
- Location
- Moscow
[X] Move and Reorient
Xiulan will nuke him once we are out of the line of fire.
Xiulan will nuke him once we are out of the line of fire.
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] Move and Reorient
Normally I'd say dodge, but taking the hit makes more sense here. Our insights say to protect our family and only give what we must. Taking the hit here is inline with that. Plus I agree that it is better to start putting the hurt on the stealth attacker as soon as possible. We don't want him getting any more setup time. I also believe that there are no trap options, but I am worried that we will be realy weak or possibly out of this fight. But it is a risk I am willing to take.
[X] Defend and Counter
[X] Defend and Counter
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
You're ignoring that the core argument in favor of blocking is "Punish the other guy for trying this in the first place because we have the tools to endure at least one alpha strike, because the danger of letting him try again--but this time with us having even less resources--is greater than the risk of him murdering us with a single blow."
"Use it for a fort/resilience buff" is like, bottom of the priority chain here in favor of "Fuck him up and terminate his stealth arts, kill him if we can but the point is making him think very hard if this fight is worth dying or not"
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- Location
- Earth
@Alectai A thing to consider. While the defense is powerful, Ling Qi isn't taking it on the chin. She is letting an assasin slit her throat and pump poison directly into her brain. She might survive it, but the poison might easily kill her. There is a difference with using a shield to block, and raising a shield when the enemy is already within your reach. He's about to cut her throat. Think on if you want to take a blow like that from a professional assassin.
On the other hand, nothing says his blow won't have some effect even if Ling Qi turns to shadow. So that's a thing as well.
EDIT: What I'm saying is, you are blocking with your neck. Not the best idea.
On the other hand, nothing says his blow won't have some effect even if Ling Qi turns to shadow. So that's a thing as well.
EDIT: What I'm saying is, you are blocking with your neck. Not the best idea.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Cultivators are made of some serious fucking shit, and TRU is the ultimate power of a well polished art that was handed down by a Count household, we have a head ghost who can dispel negative effects or purge positive effects on others, and I doubt his poison is superior to the one BINO was handing out like candy, which Sixiang could purge just fine--it just jumped to them when they did so and they got knocked out eventually.
I'm not saying "There is no risk at all here", I am saying though that we have to tools to endure this, and the risk of letting this guy have a second chance--now wary of our survival ability but not in fear of his life--outweighs the risk of him crippling or killing us through an ultimate defense technique.
I don't want him to have another shot, I want to put our fist through him before he has a chance to fuck with our people. We're strong, and we have contingencies against this very thing happening, our other people might not.
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
I don't ignore it. I think it's weak. Ling Qi's health is also a resource to be measured in a fight, taking such a crippling wound would destroy any advantages of counter attacking.
Thats literally saying nothing.
If outlining the benefits of an action is meta gaming, and thus disqualifying, then every debate is meaningless.
Besides, didnt you already vote?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We've seen it in the past, if Ling Qi is in active combat, she can push through even serious wounds that would knock her out in an instant.
I don't feel that leaving a powerful, assassin-spec with stealth we still can't break even as he's about to slit our throat completely unharmed and able to try again is worth avoiding an injury--even a serious one. If we were at full resources, I might agree to try winding up a search pattern--but we don't have time to do that and dodge him and support the rest of the overall fight.
Uhhh...what?
It sure looks like Youre ignoring arguments if you tuned out on the re-engaging stealth risk.
Keeping the guy from dropping back into stealth by means of.hitting him means literally everyone else can jump him.
That has nothing to do with Ling Qis remaining health pool. Its a benefit that can not be destroyed
Plainly speaking, you are wrong.
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
No, I didn't.
I disagree. Taking a hit would lead to destealthed assassin against Xiulan and a bleeding, dying Ling Qi, who's also low on qi. I don't think it's a fight we can win.
Thank you for your valuable opinion.
- Location
- Canada
Xiulan is about to blast him. 'Completely unharmed' is a bit of a stretch, even more so if she doesn't need to worry about friendly fire.
Oh its not an opinion.
Unless Xiulan and Ling Qi started sharing a health bar all of a sudden, its a plain fact.
What you posited, however, was an excellent example of a baseless opinion. And I thank you for providing it.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
And that's where your opinion disagrees with mine. You believe this guy has the highest damage output we've seen in the game because stealth memes, that from a position of perfect safety, he could ramp up an attack more powerful than Sun Liling's finishing strike from the Outer Sect Tournament that we saw--this is what we in the business call a perfect winning strategy given the clearly established potency of his stealth measures. If your first move can one shot anything below late Green (And cripple anything below Cyan), and they cannot detect you until you've made your move (And even then, your build up betrays no hint that you're doing it), you can defeat any opponent in the same Realm as you, and be relevant in a fight even a stage up, and the level of specialization required to counter you would mean that you will kill them even if they see you coming.
Again, to one-shot Ling Qi to the level you're implying would require an attack a full rank higher than the strongest attacks we've seen, even from ducal scions. But if that's your deeply held conviction, I can see why you feel tanking it is folly. Surely we can't resist an attack more powerful than a late battle build up all-out nuke without dodging it.
Of course, I would argue if he outclasses us to that degree--that he can rock a SS rank attack that ignores perfect soaks, that the exact same thing happens again, because his stealth is logically in the same league, and we momentarily lost track of him while we were dodging away--more than enough time for him to use a short range sprint to break contact with Xiulan and re-stealth.
Additionally, if his attack is ranked that high, he'll hit us even through SCS, it'll just lose a few ranks of damage--but that'll still be enough to seriously injure Ling Qi, and he can burn a disengage to avoid Xiulan's counterattack and re-establish stealth.
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