Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Everyone we're talking about here is someone that made it into the Inner Sect. Resources alone are insufficient to achieve that accomplishment. Case in point, Fan Yu. Not to mention that some of the people at the party were ennobled commoners like Ling Qi. No one in the Inner Sect is a random nobody. To use an analogy, they might not be Harvard graduates like Ling Qi, but they aren't Northwest Missouri State graduates either.
 
However these "trust fund kids" are the relatives of those higher rank people. At the very least we want a neutral attitude towards Ling Qi so that the well isn't poisoned before we try to drink from it.
I'd hope that it's neutral, but I think our actions in the Outer Sect probably shifted the general perspective on LQ somewhat sinisterly. Not entirely undeserved, mind you, but still.

Like the GM said once, "LQ's the weird taciturn lady who wears a full suit of armor everywhere she goes," and she also has a recent history of sneaking around and stealing from some pretty big name people.

I don't much care to back down from that, because we earned that reputation through luck and skill.
Everyone we're talking about here is someone that made it into the Inner Sect. Resources alone are insufficient to achieve that accomplishment. Case in point, Fan Yu. Not to mention that some of the people at the party were ennobled commoners like Ling Qi. No one in the Inner Sect is a random nobody. To use an analogy, they might not be Harvard graduates like Ling Qi, but they aren't Northwest Missouri State graduates either.
Our year was noted to be exceptional for the level of strength, so someone making it into the Inner Sect isn't necessarily a huge deal.
 
I must say, this conversation is both fascinating and concerning to me in equal measure. While there are a couple of things that I could discuss, I think focusing on what I consider the most intriguing and concerning aspect will help with clarity. And I feel that a quote directly from the text is the best way to establish what I am thinking about.

A small piece moving around the field between titans, expected to not only affect, but even contribute to their plans. Plans that she had no understanding of and barely any context for, even with her more recent efforts to educate herself. "Because I need to understand, if I am to survive," the words came to her lips unbidden. "Even if I am small, my actions can affect the paths of the mighty and draw their attention."
"Even if I am small, my actions can affect the paths of the mighty and draw their attention." It seems that Ling Qi, and us as voters, have forgotten those poignant words spoken unbidden to the shadow of an ancient white cultivator. And Ling Qi does not bear that burden alone, anyone who is small can affect the paths of the mighty and draw their attention. We are not special in that regard, and it bears to remember that others, just as small and insignificant, can move the current in imperceptible, but meaningful, ways.

The nobles we meet and greet and make nice with may have insignificant strength compared to us. While we ascend they plateau, while we have the ear of the heir to a duchy they might have the obedience of a farmer. But we are both insignificant compared to the titans that play their games of chess with us as pawns.

To say that these nobles are nobodies, or mooks, or not our peers simply because of their ability to cultivate minimizes the impact they could have. Each one of them might have the might of a grain of sand, but with enough grains a mountain is formed, a river diverted, a city swallowed.

Even if we never reach the point of playing the game like Xiulan's mother, out of lack of interest or investment, engaging with the game with anything less than respect for the game will cause those grains of sand to form against us. We will never have the time or interest to invest in random nobles, to make everyone our friend and ally (and that is impossible anyway), but we do have the ability to realize that the lesson we spoke of in the Bloody Moon's dream also applies to every noble we interact with. And with every spirit as well.

I hope that Ling Qi quickly realizes that the lesson cuts both ways. I do dislike having to learn a lesson twice, even if the lesson is from the other side of the equation.
 
According to the POV of the noble Ling Qi crushed in the group stage, peak 2nd realm is normally enough to qualify. Not amazing, but Han Jian, Han Fang, Su Ling, and Li Suyin were at that level. None of them is worthless scrub tier.
 
To say that these nobles are nobodies, or mooks, or not our peers simply because of their ability to cultivate minimizes the impact they could have. Each one of them might have the might of a grain of sand, but with enough grains a mountain is formed, a river diverted, a city swallowed.
I am torn, because I agree on your conclusion, but while those are pretty words, that's... not the lesson that Ling Qi was referring to at all? As far as I can tell, it's the opposite of said lesson.

The lesson was that Ling Qi needed to learn how the Great acted, because if she didn't she would die, as she already entered the game not as pawn, but as someone claiming to be a player. The current situation is that she needs to learn how the to act around the weak, because [plenty of reasons that we all disagree on which is the most important]. She doesn't need to learn how they act, here, she needs to learn what response is appropriate, and how much effort is needed to be able to both respond to her being part of the peerage appropriately, but more importantly to not forget the lesson she is learning about what she needs to learn to survive being the retainer of the Cai house.

Basically, what I am saying here is that in very significant ways how to deal with weaker cultivator and powerless nobles is going to make dealing with the Cai much harder. There is a reason CRX is burning out trying to juggle ten different priorities.
 
You're looking at Sage Emperor levels of genius talent. Cultivating before puberty starts does very little. Renxiang was cultivating since SIX and she only made Yellow by the Sect entrance. She made more progress in one year at 14 than she did in the eight previous years.

If you want to do playful kid persona you probably could pull it off with maybe a Moon Fairy heritage or some such, but it really depends on what you have backing you up.
I suspect that there are ways to induce early puberty. There have been cases in the real world of people going though puberty at 5.
 
I suspect that there are ways to induce early puberty. There have been cases in the real world of people going though puberty at 5.
It's not clear that the effect comes from puberty per se. Sure, the age correlates pretty well to "when hormones start flowing", but puberty might not yet have started, especially for people who grew up with bad nutrition (like commoners), and we've seen nothing about that being a potential issue. It's probably more metaphysical, and the dantian reaches certain levels of development based on age, as opposed to mundane physical factors that can be directly influenced.
 
As far as Ling Qi goes...I can't help but think that historically speaking? That, is why aristocrats so often in stories hate upjumped commoners. It's not just that they don't have proper manners, it's typically that they don't understand the world of being nobility, and basically need a tutorial on how to be noble.
This, is a problem because all the other nobles have to then drop what they're doing to coach the new kid on how to not disrupt the several-decade old trade agreements that the current political situation hinges upon, without being accused of trying to turn this noble into their pawn and thus get an alliance formed against them and as a result get stomped into the ground, or to make it relatable-
Ever play a team game with someone who's new and doesn't know what they're doing, and they're not your friend, just someone matchmaking slapped you with? It's terrible, because you then have to split your focus between helping the newb AND fending off that enemy team who of course has that one guy you'd need all your focus to fight, so now instead of dueling him 1v1 you've got to make it a team affair, only you've also got to dance between containing the ace and contributing to the team fight AND mind that the newb doesn't walk into an obvious trap.
In short, it's stressful to the old gaurd, it's scary for the newb, and thusly it's bad for everyone.
Ling Qi I think is probably something of an extreme case, given that she had a harsh background, into rooming with Bai who's very anti-social, to art elements that don't really encourage a warm personality, the war with Sun which probably helped amplify that harsh background, and now serving Cai and having a strong initial image of 'if you don't perform to expectations, you'll be replaced.' Basically, she's the sort of person the Empire would treat much akin to Sun Wukong- either give her hard work that keeps her busy or give her a cushy job that keeps her calm and sedate, but an active AND aware Ling Qi is basically primed to become a nightmare for everyone else.
Imagine a province that the other clans must regularly tithe with food and trinkets, lest a dark wave of mist and destitution suddenly lash out, striking a land with poverty. Imagine one day that instead of the tithe, a terrible Winter echos out and Ends another storied noble clan.
Like...
There's a reason I want Ling Qi to pivot away from the Cold and Darkness, somehow. I very much feel like her current cultivation is primed to make her an Villianous Ice Queen, if she's not there already.
The problem is the inertia factor of cultivation. Ling Qi can't go back and get breakthrough bonuses from that long-mourned Ashen Shadows Arts to move away from this dark path, and yet, she's practically set to become yet another Bai...Maybe we should seriously consider becoming a Bai Vassal to Meizhen or another friendly Bai...
 
It's not clear that the effect comes from puberty per se. Sure, the age correlates pretty well to "when hormones start flowing", but puberty might not yet have started, especially for people who grew up with bad nutrition (like commoners), and we've seen nothing about that being a potential issue. It's probably more metaphysical, and the dantian reaches certain levels of development based on age, as opposed to mundane physical factors that can be directly influenced.
From where we passed through:
-Mortal -> Red: Your mortal self, simply improved.
-Red -> Yellow: Your idealized mortal self, effectively airbrushed.
-Yellow -> Green: Your self-image.

Physical age plays into it, because your self image is not easily manipulated until you hit Green and can voluntarily control what you present yourself to be.

Ling Qi doesn't particularly LIKE being a telephone pole in height, but she just kept getting taller because her friends are all objectively tiny people, so she felt herself to be a Tall Person. She's slim because she's skinny with childhood starvation, and also unconsciously rejects being sexy due to her hangups.

So odds are for higher cultivators they're going to look about as old as they feel. Probably a lot of them are going to hang around looking like they're in their 20-30s until they're hitting the edge of their age cap, but stress can literally age them in a blink.
 
Imagine a province that the other clans must regularly tithe with food and trinkets, lest a dark wave of mist and destitution suddenly lash out, striking a land with poverty. Imagine one day that instead of the tithe, a terrible Winter echos out and Ends another storied noble clan.

Lol like shit like this don't happen everywhere.
That is exactly what governments/empire/count clans are about, if you don't pay taxes you get wrecked. Although they may be willing to protect you from others, if only to protect they money source.
 
Lol like shit like this don't happen everywhere.
That is exactly what governments/empire/count clans are about, if you don't pay taxes you get wrecked. Although they may be willing to protect you from others, if only to protect they money source.
Eh, not quite, something that big is a bit of an overreaction
And I feel you've the image that the clans keeping everything in line are a bunch of goons who will come to your house and break your legs if you don't pay your taxes, which isn't really how that works
There are laws and bureaucratic systems in place to handle things so that people don't need to be so crude
 
Ling Qi doesn't particularly LIKE being a telephone pole in height, but she just kept getting taller because her friends are all objectively tiny people, so she felt herself to be a Tall Person. She's slim because she's skinny with childhood starvation, and also unconsciously rejects being sexy due to her hangups.
I'm not so sure about this. LQ is 14-15, so her growing taller and skinnier is well within the bounds of just normal puberty stuff. The Red-Yellow breakthrough was pretty explicit about fixing long term flaws like not quite-perfectly healed bones and stunted growth, so LQ's skinniness isn't because she was starved as a kid - that would have been fixed either during the breakthroughs or just from the nutritional plenty available at the sect.

I don't disagree that higher end cultivators would end up with their physical form reflecting their self-image, but early green isn't quite the point that that sort of thing would kick in. There was a bit when we hid from the nomads about how LQ is only just now reaching the point where she can disregard the constraints of her physical body, and it takes effort to do so.
Ling Qi shot down through the clouds, keeping her qi as restrained as she could while moving at such speeds. Better to deliver warning back to her group, and the main army left behind. As she descended, she considered what she had done, in her moment of panic when it became clear that one of the barbarians had noticed her. It was not quite the same as her One with Shadow technique, nor any other. Even when she blinked from one place to another in combat she didn't quite… disperse like that.

Even now, her dantian burned and her head pounded from the strain, but… it really was just an extension of what she had already learned. In dispersing her aura to blend into the background and hide herself, she was already taking the first step. Still, to do the same with her actual body…

"Are you thinking that bodies are more important than spirits? I'm hurt Ling Qi," Sixiang laughed, sounding flippant even though she could feel the spirit's tension and watchful intent as they peered out at the world through her. "Well I guess it is a big step for a meat-person."
She's definitely not yet at the point where the mental/qi aspects of her self-identity can override her physical body with impunity as a passive thing. Cosmetic stuff like shining hair yes, structural stuff like changing the size and/or shape of her skeleton no. That sort of stuff will likely have to wait til at least Cyan, maybe Indigo.


As for higher tier cultivators, the ur-example of Elders capable of futzing around with their body like that is Elder Jiao, and in the Faculty Meeting bonus chapter on RR he's noted to be an outlier in that regard. It's possible, but Imperial Cultivators seem to place a degree of importance on their physical beings that doesn't quite jive with the malleability you describe as a general rule. Being warped towards their general self image during Cyan+ breakthroughs is probably pretty common though.
 
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I get the "for want of a nail" argument of social interaction.
It would be optimal if we could be friends with everyone, or failing that, distantly polite.
But that argument applies to everyone, everything, everywhere, all the bloody time.
We have to ration our time and energies.
And as much as it hurts the feelings of the young nobles here, they, for the most part, do not have a very high priority.
 
I get the "for want of a nail" argument of social interaction.
It would be optimal if we could be friends with everyone, or failing that, distantly polite.
Eh, as optimistic as that sounds, I've read enough stories where people who act like that are treated as pushovers.

I think we'd stand to gain from making clear rivals so we can humiliate rivals and project power (to use EU4 terms).
Look at CRX and Bai Meiling. They're clearly allied with each other and against Sun Liling, and look at how much power projection they gained from smashing Sun in the previous year's wargame and tournament.
 
Eh, as optimistic as that sounds, I've read enough stories where people who act like that are treated as pushovers.

I think we'd stand to gain from making clear rivals so we can humiliate rivals and project power (to use EU4 terms).
Look at CRX and Bai Meiling. They're clearly allied with each other and against Sun Liling, and look at how much power projection they gained from smashing Sun in the previous year's wargame and tournament.
Kinda my point.
It would be nice if everyone could be friends, but it's just not possible, we have not the time, the skill, or the lack of spine to do that.
 
Now that I think about it, are there any characters who are actually likely to be a rival to Ling Qi?

Last I checked, the punk boy under Sun Liling didn't outright hate us, just a slight dislike. Hell, LQ's got more in common with him than a lot of people.
That said, he's basically the only one who has a similar growth rate to LQ out of every character we know. Would be a shame if we just voted to antagonise him just to get a rival some time.

Actually, we're probably fucking up a bit if the Emerald Sea Nobles dislike us more than the Sun clan does.
 
Now that I think about it, are there any characters who are actually likely to be a rival to Ling Qi?

Last I checked, the punk boy under Sun Liling didn't outright hate us, just a slight dislike. Hell, LQ's got more in common with him than a lot of people.
That said, he's basically the only one who has a similar growth rate to LQ out of every character we know. Would be a shame if we just voted to antagonise him just to get a rival some time.

Actually, we're probably fucking up a bit if the Emerald Sea Nobles dislike us more than the Sun clan does.
Sun clan does not give a crap about Emerald Seas.
Only reason we are even in Sun radar is our relationship with the Bai.
But the emerald sea nobles do care about us, even if only because we are the dukal heirs left hand woman.
Which means that everyone will have an opinion.
Having ES nobles hate us more is to be expected, because we are their opponent and rival.
 
I get the "for want of a nail" argument of social interaction.
It would be optimal if we could be friends with everyone, or failing that, distantly polite.
But that argument applies to everyone, everything, everywhere, all the bloody time.
We have to ration our time and energies.
And as much as it hurts the feelings of the young nobles here, they, for the most part, do not have a very high priority.
It really isn't a matter of being friends with everyone
It's a matter of readjusting our social approach and image.

Currently LQ doesn't really social much, she's starting to attend a few parties, but she's transparent in that she not only sees it as a chore but that she expects constant hostility and plotting from people around her. She only goes to social events to poke around for information and maintain the bare minimum social polite distance from most people, she isn't actually socializing she's just putting up a front for public appearances.

The problem with that is that it is isolating her, if you act like a detached and contemptuous solipsist then people will treat you like it. People can't shunt her out of social gatherings entirely because of her connections, but they can isolate her from social groups within that space, not that Ling Qi tries terribly hard to connect to said groups anyway. LQ relies pretty much entirely on her association to big names like CRX and Meizhen to guard her in that area.

Ling Qi is currently acting like a Bai, She is copying Meizhen's general mannerisms because she doesn't know what else to do, and she inherits the drawbacks associated with that approach; the Bai operated by force of fear and power, their reputation meant that they could mostly just get away with not caring to engage their various vassals, they made decisions and people followed them. But this also meant that they weren't liked, they were resented, bordering on hated, and when a more charismatic Sun Shao came along and offered everyone a chance to get away and not have to deal with them anymore nearly everyone took the chance to jump ship. The Bai survived that, but it was not a pleasant experience and a lesser clan would not have.
Now Ling Qi isn't nearly that far down, but the point is that people don't like her because she isn't making an effort to be likable. Sure being a freshly minted noble in a high position means that she starts out on the back foot, but this is not an unworkable position, people ascending to noble status isn't all that uncommon, this isn't a bunch of crusty gatekeepers who view the idea as some form of sacrilege, sure some people will turn their noses up at the idea of a commoner breaking out of their caste, they aren't a reason to write off everyone else though.

This isn't going to suddenly result in Ling Qi flitting about and starting personal relationships with every single person she meets, its a few minor changes to her approach so that she hopefully grows to become more capable and she isn't stuck relying on other people to cover her in the social area anymore. Ling Qi isn't going to start being friends with everyone she meets that's ridiculous, she is hopefully going to actually start socializing with people and stop leaning on her stuck up noble act crutch.

Kinda my point.
It would be nice if everyone could be friends, but it's just not possible, we have not the time, the skill, or the lack of spine to do that.
See, you seem to think that learning how to talk to people somehow makes Ling Qi weaker, that the only people who bother are all peons or something who can't make anything of themselves. Her lack of ability to socialize is a weakness and while you seem fine with that, I am not.
 
See, you seem to think that learning how to talk to people somehow makes Ling Qi weaker, that the only people who bother are all peons or something who can't make anything of themselves. Her lack of ability to socialize is a weakness and while you seem fine with that, I am not.
You are taking that completely out of context, and utterly ignoring my many, repeated, statements that we need to get better at socializing.

However, getting better at socialicing does not mean we need to pretend to like parties, or start acting like the more traditional nobles with their power games, or accept the framework in which they try to place us in.
 
Now Ling Qi isn't nearly that far down, but the point is that people don't like her because she isn't making an effort to be likable. Sure being a freshly minted noble in a high position means that she starts out on the back foot, but this is not an unworkable position, people ascending to noble status isn't all that uncommon, this isn't a bunch of crusty gatekeepers who view the idea as some form of sacrilege, sure some people will turn their noses up at the idea of a commoner breaking out of their caste, they aren't a reason to write off everyone else though.

This isn't going to suddenly result in Ling Qi flitting about and starting personal relationships with every single person she meets, its a few minor changes to her approach so that she hopefully grows to become more capable and she isn't stuck relying on other people to cover her in the social area anymore. Ling Qi isn't going to start being friends with everyone she meets that's ridiculous, she is hopefully going to actually start socializing with people and stop leaning on her stuck up noble act crutch.
I'm kind of pessimist there. I think, with very significant effort, that it's possible to have a working relationship with those who agrees with our political goals. I think it would be nigh-impossible to be accepted as a peer by the huge majority of those who shares our goal, however. As for those who don't share our goals, the only way to be accepted would be to fail Cai Shenhua and be thrown away, I believe.

That guy? He didn't share our political goals, and he made it clear that Ling Qi had to follow mysterious and astringent requirement for him to decide that he doesn't accept her.
 
However, getting better at socialicing does not mean we need to pretend to like parties, or start acting like the more traditional nobles with their power games, or accept the framework in which they try to place us in.
Tbf we don't necessarily need to pretend. This latest arc showed that Ling Qi's dislike of noble gatherings is at least partially irrational, as by going in expecting them to be awful she made it a self fulfilling prophecy. Yes, we may face opposition from some or even a majority of other nobles depending on the context, but at the very least we can ensure that that we don't give them any more excuse than necessary.

Plus it's shown she can actually enjoy herself when she relaxes, so win-win.
 
I'm kind of pessimist there. I think, with very significant effort, that it's possible to have a working relationship with those who agrees with our political goals. I think it would be nigh-impossible to be accepted as a peer by the huge majority of those who shares our goal, however. As for those who don't share our goals, the only way to be accepted would be to fail Cai Shenhua and be thrown away, I believe.

That guy? He didn't share our political goals, and he made it clear that Ling Qi had to follow mysterious and astringent requirement for him to decide that he doesn't accept her.
I assume you're talking about Wu Jing? I don't really care about being friends with him, I'm not interested in antagonizing him, and I don't expect him to become a major ally or enemy. He'll probably sit in the background watching Ling Qi and make a judgment at some point whether he wants to oppose her or let her be. As far as I am concerned he doesn't deserve much consideration until he actually becomes relevant later down the line, if he ever does, he really isn't all that important as a person, the only reason he's been a topic of discussion at all is because he pointed out some of Ling Qi's failings in the social area, and he wasn't wrong about that, though he was a bit off on his reading of her motives.

Not being able to appease everyone is inevitable, having to interact with people who aren't friends and won't become friends is inevitable, making enemies is inevitable. None of this is a reason to not make an effort to put our best foot forward. I don't expect Ling Qi to walk away with everyone singing her praises, there will always be people who don't see eye to eye with her, people who oppose her, but hiding behind that mask of hers does nothing but alienate people she doesn't have to.

However, getting better at socialicing does not mean we need to pretend to like parties, or start acting like the more traditional nobles with their power games, or accept the framework in which they try to place us in.
Socializing means actually interacting with people, including people who aren't your friends, it means being willing to play ball, we don't have bend to their whims and we shouldn't, but there are times where we do need to compromise. Ling Qi can't get better at socializing if she continues to keep distance from everyone at social gatherings, she can't cling to her comfort zone where she only ever wants to talk to her friends or make small interactions with people who have positive views on her. Because she's going to have to actually deal with people who don't like her eventually, she doesn't have to be friends with them, but she does have to deal with them, and no, putting up the Meizhen facade and deflecting everything isn't enough.
 
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