Yeah, this would have to be done in house. As such, and with my stated belief that our networks in the core are gonna be found anyway, lets bring as many Chromed up madlads as we can to New Syrtis. Order them to get our agents and also wreck anything of strategic value, then sit back and watch the fire works.
 
Hiring mercs for this job would be a bad idea. If this were a cut and dried raid mission in an actual war, it'd be fine, but a mission like this demands participants we have absolute trust in and would carry out their task in the way we would want them to. There's just a lot of uncertainty in hiring mercs for a job like this.

That's why I propose Raven Interstellar, they are a unofficial branch of the Republic's intelligence.

Then again we could always try to stage a stealth rescue over a loud one using our own forces.
 
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Anyway, as far the Intel job, I hate saying this but im leaning towards sliping the agents some poison and call it a day. The fact of the matter is that our ability to collect intelligence on the Federated Suns is going to mean the difference in saving a lot of lives and, pardon me for speaking moralistically, free a lot of colonized people under unjust occupation.

Yeah, we could go balls to the wall and free them with a bunch of supersoldiers with power armor, but that explicitly burns a lot of Federated Sun assets at a time where there counterintelligence efforts are only going to get more intense and at a certain point we're cutting of a hand to save the arm when less intensive treatments are available.



That's why I propose Raven Interstellar, they are a unofficial branch of the Republic's intelligence.

DIdn't people already figure out they were basically a Helghan cutout quite a while ago?
 
Didn't people already figure out they were basically a Helghan cutout quite a while ago?

Yeah, when it comes to deniable ops, they are about as separated from us as Wagner is to IRL Russia. And everyone and their mother knows it. We try to move them to New Syrtis, they will get attacked en route even before the war kicks off. And that sounds like a great way to lose a lot of experienced soldiers.
 
Maybe I'm just not expressing myself right, but is the idea that the canopians a) both have elections and b) those elections aren't particular representative of the popular will or affect bodied with much power to direct the affairs of state compared to the centralla families influence really that absurd a take, even if we take the in character periphery handbook at face value?
Protip: It always pays to double-check what the other person is saying before hitting the post button.
You missed this bit at the start of the discussion.
The nominee is then put before the Central Committee, which is also popularly elected with one representative from each planet that can veto any law made by the Magestrix with a 2/3 vote.
This is the quote on it from Sarna article:
The Canopian Central Committee was formed by Governor Humphreys as a review board to ensure that any legislation passed by the Magestrix was compatible to the will of the Star League. When the Magestrix regained her authority, the Committee was reformed and its powers expanded. Each Canopian planet elects by popular vote one Committeewoman (or Committeeman) to serve on the Central Committee; originally each member's term of service was for five years, but this was later decreased to two. The Central Committee has the power to review legislation proposed by the Magestrix, and if they do not have a two-thirds majority approval, to veto them. The Committee can also pass legislation of its own, though this is subject to a veto by the Magestrix as well.[5][6]
Citation five is the book I have and reproduced, the Periphery Sourcebook. Source six is the later Battletech Handbook: Major Periphery States, which I do not have and thus rely on Sarna for.

This isn't a matter of in articulation. It's no due diligence. No research beyond 'belief' when you had the same access to info as me, and so you just doubled-down on the same argument when I showed it to be inaccurate. You never even asked for a citation on the veto bit, you just made an 'assumption'. You could've said 'hey, if we're escalating to the source material can you show what that other thing says', which I cannot directly do and thus have a weaker argument in that area. You could've brought up the Sourcebook quote mentioning large amounts of financial and other gifts from future Magisterix candidates to the electors with no restrictions, and that is an issue with keeping things outside wealthy interest groups. Instead you just circled back on 'lifetime elections are not fair' until someone else gave you an argument to parrot. You could've said that "I am skeptical of how those legislative seats stay elected if some are already being made hereditary", instead you just misquoted the source.

Life kept you too busy to use google in the past three-ish hours?
 
Maybe a refresher on political structure is in order, because you're not the only person who's made this exact mistake about Canopus. You hear "autocrat", and assume it's incompatible with democracy due to real-world views on Certain Countries. The lore on this explicitly lays out how the powerful executive relies on democratic institutions.


The Magisterix is an elected position. Lifetime, autocratic, but democratically elected through a quasi-Electoral College nomination process and actually elected by the legislative branch. When time comes to make a new successor Magisterix each planet in the Magistry sends two Electors to vote on a nominee. These Electors have lifetime seats and most are themselves popularly elected. The nominee is then put before the Central Committee, which is also popularly elected with one representative from each planet that can veto any law made by the Magestrix with a 2/3 vote.

Everything you're talking about has little relation to Canopus. Because this state has built itself so that democratic institutions make the autocrat powerful, not any feudal succession laws or military warlordism. Hence why the need to secure a peaceful transition of power due to the ruler's incapacitation.
You're focusing on the wrong thing. Yes, the position is democratically elected (for some value of democratic). But the other term being used is autocrat, and specifically lifetime appointed autocrat. That is I am talking about, and that is why something like the 25th isn't something I would see as working. Because in an autocracy you're vesting most of the executive power in one person, and the executive is the branch that's going to be dealing with getting an uncooperative person out of the main seat. Like, in the example we have it's not people openly acknowledging that the Magisterix is having issues, it's people discussing things in secret because if it got out things would go badly. That's not a sign of a system where there's a strong check against them.

Honestly, if they are going to keep an autocratic form of government I would suggest that limiting time in office is going to be much better, though of course even that has significant issues due to the nature of an autocracy.

Ultimately, allies spy on each other to varying degrees. For practice, joint operations, and for the defence of themselves and each other.

At the end of the day, that's the spirit this is intended in. "Hey, we've noticed there are issues, here's how we're offering to help." It keeps open a dialogue and means are allies can ask us for support and assistance in future. That's rather the point of allies. To protect each other. If the Helghan government was replaced in a coup I'd certainly want out allies there and offering support rather than shrugging it off and ignoring it.
Allies spy on each other. But in general being extremely blatant about it strains relations(see, say, the US and tapping Merkel's phone). Moreover, this is interfering with their internal politics, and in a way that can easily be construed as us taking a side in the coup. Hell, earlier you were saying that this should just be a simple offer, but now you're saying that it should include a veiled threat? If you want to tank relations with Canopus and ORDI in general this sounds like a great way to break up the alliance.
 
Protip: It always pays to double-check what the other person is saying before hitting the post button.
You missed this bit at the start of the discussion.

I did not. Theirs a reason I put 'compared to the influence of the centralla family' in that bit you qoute.

If you really don't think thier are ways to rig the sorts of elections or suborn those sorts of institutions (it could even literally be something as benign as differening material interests making a two thirds coalition for a overrule of majestix policies as being extremely unlikely) I don't know what else to tell you.

Like at best this place is a 19th century style constitutional monarchy, with a emphasis on monarchy.
 
Allies spy on each other. But in general being extremely blatant about it strains relations(see, say, the US and tapping Merkel's phone). Moreover, this is interfering with their internal politics, and in a way that can easily be construed as us taking a side in the coup. Hell, earlier you were saying that this should just be a simple offer, but now you're saying that it should include a veiled threat? If you want to tank relations with Canopus and ORDI in general this sounds like a great way to break up the alliance.

What? Where in any of the part you quoted did I say "We should include a veiled threat." ?!
I've made clear in previous posts that this absolutely shouldn't be handled as a threat. That the Canopians can and have every right to refuse our request.

I'd like them to engage with us. And I believe safeguarding the fragile democracy is of value for both of us. Or at the least, not tacitly ignoring coups.
 
What? Where in any of the part you quoted did I say "We should include a veiled threat." ?!
I've made clear in previous posts that this absolutely shouldn't be handled as a threat. That the Canopians can and have every right to refuse our request.

I'd like them to engage with us. And I believe safeguarding the fragile democracy is of value for both of us. Or at the least, not tacitly ignoring coups.
Yes, you said it wasn't a threat. And then you have this section:
So what are we seeking to get out of things? Send a friendly reminder to the canopians, in fact, all our allies. That, we're keeping an eye on them and their government, for both their protection and ours. For Emma and the Canopians, knowing that someone is invested in ensuring the former head of state isn't murdered. Means any potential future coups (from say a military junta) are torn between either keeping the figurehead alive as a potential figure for a rebellion or rightful government to rally around. Or, they execute that head of state, potentially risking Helghan intervention in favour of the rightful government.

This has the benefit of making coups less likely and more difficult, ensuring our allies are at less risk of coups and are more stable. And, it limits/discourages the usage of violence in coups. Keeping them at the level of government invoking the 25th, and hopefully avoiding any coup spiralling into outright civil war.
Where you are talking about how people will have to moderate behavior thanks to the message. I mean, I assume it was going to be veiled, as opposed to us broadcasting 'hey Emma, if you or anyone else kills your mom we will make them pay' or something.

So far your suggestion just seems like a good way to escalate things, which seems like the last thing we want to be doing right now.
 
Also, if we're hiring mercs to hit New Syrtis, they'd need to be some great fucking mercs—multiple regiments at Eridani Light Horse or Wolf's Dragoons tier, considering this is New Syrtis, and it's the military centre of the entire Capellan March. Any mercs are going to be fighting the Capellan March Militia, Syrtis Fusiliers, and a bunch of other AFFS RCTs.

Also, sure the Canopians or the others have elected legislatures and planetary governments, but at the federal level, power is functionally concentrated in the hands of the executive, the executives who happen to be hereditary monarchs in function. Like, it may be the case that the Canopian Central Committee is a democratically elected legislature; however, in practice they do not have the formal and informal influence to challenge the Magestrix as an equal branch. The Magestrix has the whip hand in the Canopian government.

Edit: Actually, we have in quest WOQM on the relative levels of representativeness in among our allies! Scale of 1 to 10, scale of Dracs to us
Dem Scores:
Aurigan Coalition: 6
Taurian Concordat: 7
Magistracy of Canopus: 6
Capellan Confederation: 5
Free Worlds League: 6-7
Federated Suns: 5

Economic equality/classlessness:
Aurigan Coalition: 5
Taurian Concordat: 8
Magistracy of Canopus: 4
Capellan Confederation: 4
Free Worlds League: 4
Federated Suns: 3
 
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Yes, you said it wasn't a threat. And then you have this section:

Where you are talking about how people will have to moderate behavior thanks to the message. I mean, I assume it was going to be veiled, as opposed to us broadcasting 'hey Emma, if you or anyone else kills your mom we will make them pay' or something.

So far your suggestion just seems like a good way to escalate things, which seems like the last thing we want to be doing right now.

And that's not a threat.

First off. They don't have to show Kyalla to us. Don't have to schedule a diplomatic meeting. Don't even have to display her in public in their own territory. If they don't there is no further escalation.

It gives us info. And IMO, if they *have* killed her as part of the coup. That's something we should know about. Not necessarily be worried about even, but something to bear in mind.

For what it's worth. I don't think they've killed her. So, they should be able to produce a public appearance from her. But even if they don't produce her. There's no sub-vote or plan for escalation or interfering.

This is diplomatic signalling that we'd like to make sure she's at least relatively safe. It should be an absolute nothing burger. "Can you get a celebrity to a photo op for us." The only downside to them not providing some proof of life on request is that we make a note about that, and might not trust them as much as we would if they were able to have Kyalla wave to a crowd.

Let's take a different tack. What if they *have* Killed Kyalla? Wouldn't you want to know? Shouldn't that be important info about our Ally that we consider in future? That their head of state is willing to murder their own mother? If willing to do that, it begs the question of just how much we can really trust the Magistocracy if once we become an obstacle they might want to remove us.

It's not our laws. It their laws. There are reasons that they engaged in a coup in secrecy. The manner they went about it with a military force locking down the palace and deposing the elected leader. Well, doing it in secrecy gives it the best chance of success of course, but if found out, it could in fact be taken to trial as treason if the coup failed.

And in a democracy laws and rules matter. That's why I want to do something rather than just entirely ignore it. Not even criticising the coup. Just asking friends for a quick status report to check that their former leader is healthy, and their government remains a healthy democracy.
 
And in a democracy laws and rules matter. That's why I want to do something rather than just entirely ignore it. Not even criticising the coup. Just asking friends for a quick status report to check that their former leader is healthy, and their government remains a healthy democracy.

...So basically you just want to virtue signal helghans commitment to the *checks notes* 'democracy' that the canopians have.

But its not even particularly virtous given that your unwilling to even criticise them or do anything to get them to comply with our demands, even if they literally did murder Kyale.

So it's not even worthwhile as a moral stand and the only real impact it could have is the incredibly high chance the canopians think of helghans pointed questions as vaguely having a point to them, the closest one being to imply we might do something about it in the future.

Which, by your own admission, we wouldn't be willing to do even if they openly admitted to murdering her.

Great.

I'm going to vote not to do that.
 
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Alright here's my current plan I'm going to wait until the thread has a consensus about Hearts and Minds before adding that to my plan and I'm thinking of adding a line to captured agents saying that if the stealth rescue fails then we go for the poison route.

Also I'm not 100% on what to put about emplacing the assault force so a little help there would be appreciated.

Anyone have any input?

[] Intelligent Struggles
-[] Captured Agents Spotted!
--[] Try for stealth: While riskier than going in hard, trying for a stealthy approach could preserve both the Republic's diplomatic image and the positions of many agents.
-[] The Quiet Canopian
--[] Have our ambassador invite Emma to a private dinner or other such event where they can have a conversation unobserved
--[] During this event polite inquiries are to be made as to what happened during January, the health of the former Magestrix and if she will be well enough to make public appearances any time soon.
-[] Federated Suns:
--[] Expand FedSuns intelligence network: Having placed a large number of agents within the lower levels of FedSuns society, now would be a good time to capitalise on the effort and expand the Republic's reach.
--[] Infiltrate Military [Medium]: By infiltrating the military, we can more easily raid targets of opportunity, stage incidents, and gather intelligence on deployments.
-[] ORDI Actions
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Small Arms, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable small arms ahead of time. Though there's a risk such an effort might be detected, it'll dramatically improve their ability to fight infantry. [-10,000,000 C-Bills]
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Heavy Weapons, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable heavy weapons ahead of time. While somewhat riskier than small arms, these weapons will be substantially more effective against vehicles. [-20,000,000 C-Bills]
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable vehicles well ahead of time. While risky and expensive, smuggling in combat vehicles will greatly level the playing field. [-50,000,000 C-Bills]
-[] Operation Chernobog (Outback Intervention)
--[] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
--[] Plant False Intelligence [Medium]: By hiding our real manoeuvres and planting false intelligence amongst Concordat civilians, we can disguise the scale of our operations and convince the FedSuns that we mean to attack elsewhere.
--[] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Medium]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.
--[] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Medium]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of FedSun supplies at the worst possible moment.
--[] Write-in: Conduct a major counter-intelligence sweep of all critical Helghan military institutions and research facilities as a precaution. These sweeps will be highly invasive, so each facility's sweep will be staggered to prevent loss of function.
-[] Military Requisition And Design
--[] Medium Sub-Capital Laser: Developed at the request of the Helghan Military after the acquisition of capital lasers from the Capellan Confederation, sub-capital lasers are less powerful than their full-sized brethren but weigh substantially less and can be mounted on dropships in large numbers. A single shot from the Medium Sub-Capital Laser is almost equivalent to being hit by a Falconsub-capital missile.
--[] Target Acquisition Gear - Extended Range (TAGER)
---[] A significant improvement over original samples and derivatives of the TAG systems developed by the Star League, the Helghast design boasts of a 33% increase in range at the expense of being twice as heavy and bulky. (+33% range/2 tons/2 crit slots)
--[] Commissar-A System Defense Monitor (National Guard Vessel)
 
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Alright here's my current plan I'm going to wait until the thread has a consensus about Hearts and Minds before adding that to my plan and I'm thinking of adding a line to captured agents saying that if the stealth rescue fails then we go for the poison route.

Also I'm not 100% on what to put about emplacing the assault force so a little help there would be appreciated.

Anyone have any input?

[] Intelligent Struggles
-[] Captured Agents Spotted!
--[] Try for stealth: While riskier than going in hard, trying for a stealthy approach could preserve both the Republic's diplomatic image and the positions of many agents.
-[] The Quiet Canopian
--[] Have our ambassador invite Emma to a private dinner or other such event where they can have a conversation unobserved
--[] During this event polite inquiries are to be made as to what happened during January, the health of the former Magestrix and if she will be well enough to make public appearances any time soon.
-[] Federated Suns:
--[] Expand FedSuns intelligence network: Having placed a large number of agents within the lower levels of FedSuns society, now would be a good time to capitalise on the effort and expand the Republic's reach.
--[] Infiltrate Military [Medium]: By infiltrating the military, we can more easily raid targets of opportunity, stage incidents, and gather intelligence on deployments.
-[] ORDI Actions
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Small Arms, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable small arms ahead of time. Though there's a risk such an effort might be detected, it'll dramatically improve their ability to fight infantry. [-10,000,000 C-Bills]
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Heavy Weapons, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable heavy weapons ahead of time. While somewhat riskier than small arms, these weapons will be substantially more effective against vehicles. [-20,000,000 C-Bills]
--[] Smuggle In Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable vehicles well ahead of time. While risky and expensive, smuggling in combat vehicles will greatly level the playing field. [-50,000,000 C-Bills]
-[] Operation Chernobog (Outback Intervention)
--[] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
--[] Plant False Intelligence [Medium]: By hiding our real manoeuvres and planting false intelligence amongst Concordat civilians, we can disguise the scale of our operations and convince the FedSuns that we mean to attack elsewhere.
--[] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Medium]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.
--[] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Medium]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of FedSun supplies at the worst possible moment.
--[] Write-in: Conduct a major counter-intelligence sweep of all critical Helghan military institutions and research facilities as a precaution. These sweeps will be highly invasive, so each facility's sweep will be staggered to prevent loss of function.
-[] Military Requisition And Design
--[] Medium Sub-Capital Laser: Developed at the request of the Helghan Military after the acquisition of capital lasers from the Capellan Confederation, sub-capital lasers are less powerful than their full-sized brethren but weigh substantially less and can be mounted on dropships in large numbers. A single shot from the Medium Sub-Capital Laser is almost equivalent to being hit by a Falconsub-capital missile.
--[] Target Acquisition Gear - Extended Range (TAGER)
---[] A significant improvement over original samples and derivatives of the TAG systems developed by the Star League, the Helghast design boasts of a 33% increase in range at the expense of being twice as heavy and bulky. (+33% range/2 tons/2 crit slots)
--[] Commissar-A System Defense Monitor (National Guard Vessel)
I still think that we're best served by not sticking our oars into Canopus, especially at such a sensitive time for us and them. Again, we have no goal that we really achieve by doing so, and we have no angle by which we influence them towards any hypothetical goal. This particular action isn't that intrusive, but in this case I think it'd be best to try and coordinate it with other allies; IE, precede by asking if, say, the Taurian, Aurigan, or Capellan governments are willing to reach out to the likely incoming Magestrix-elect to ask about this.

With regards to the assault force, I think we could increase the size of the battlemech force by quite a bit, as well as the naval commitment (prom suggests 5 squadrons is still not too great an escalation, iirc), and perhaps a writein that they can be under TDF operational command--this is their backyard after all, and they likely want to take point on this operation.

I know you're waiting on more debate regarding Hearts and Minds, but I personally think switching to just dropping our commitment to the independent area is the best move given the multitude of ither commitments we have.
 
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-[] The Quiet Canopian
--[] Have our ambassador invite Emma to a private dinner or other such event where they can have a conversation unobserved
--[] During this event polite inquiries are to be made as to what happened during January, the health of the former Magestrix and if she will be well enough to make public appearances any time soon.
The private dinner is a good idea but we shouldn't ask about the Magestrix (asking about her health might be considered an inquiry about the leadership's succession which is an entirely internal issue). Instead, we should ask her opinion about ORDI's trajectory and the future conflict with the Fed Suns (basically, we should ask her what will be her foreing policy).​

Edit: Maybe ask her about the Alphard Republic (mainly if it would be possible to bury the hatchet and coordinate our nation-building efforts).
 
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--[] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
I think this can be done next turn. We first should rotate our forces to get the ones who participated in the Mandate intervetion ready for the Outback, since they'll have a lot of experience with this.
 
I'm at work right now so I can't make any changes must yet but I will make them when I get home so in the meantime I'll put Xs into it so that it can be voted on if folk want to.

[X] Intelligent Struggles
-[X] Captured Agents Spotted!
--[X] Try for stealth: While riskier than going in hard, trying for a stealthy approach could preserve both the Republic's diplomatic image and the positions of many agents.
-[X]Hearts and Minds
--[X] Quietly drop all aims and commitments to an independent buffer state in the former Celestial Mandate, and indicate to the Taurian Concordat and the Capellan Confederation that the Helghan Republic is instead willing to support their efforts to appeal to the populations of those systems, including suggesting that the Taurian Concordat take Menke as well.
-[X] The Quiet Canopian
--[X] Have our ambassador invite Emma to a private dinner or other such event where they can have a conversation unobserved
--[X] During this event polite inquiries are to be made as to what happened during January, the health of the former Magestrix, if she will be well enough to make public appearances any time soon, her opinion about ORDI's trajectory, the future conflict with the Fed Suns, the Alphard Republic and anything else that be relevant.
-[X] Federated Suns:
--[X] Expand FedSuns intelligence network: Having placed a large number of agents within the lower levels of FedSuns society, now would be a good time to capitalise on the effort and expand the Republic's reach.
--[X] Infiltrate Military [Medium]: By infiltrating the military, we can more easily raid targets of opportunity, stage incidents, and gather intelligence on deployments.
-[X] ORDI Actions
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Small Arms, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable small arms ahead of time. Though there's a risk such an effort might be detected, it'll dramatically improve their ability to fight infantry. [-10,000,000 C-Bills]
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Heavy Weapons, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable heavy weapons ahead of time. While somewhat riskier than small arms, these weapons will be substantially more effective against vehicles. [-20,000,000 C-Bills]
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable vehicles well ahead of time. While risky and expensive, smuggling in combat vehicles will greatly level the playing field. [-50,000,000 C-Bills]
-[X] Operation Chernobog (Outback Intervention)
--[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 8 Battlemech Regiments, 2 Hasta IIId squadrons, 1 Noctis squadron and 2 Hecatoncheires squadrons): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
---[X] subordinate them to TDF operational plans and command within reasonable limits
--[X] Plant False Intelligence [Medium]: By hiding our real manoeuvres and planting false intelligence amongst Concordat civilians, we can disguise the scale of our operations and convince the FedSuns that we mean to attack elsewhere.
--[X] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Medium]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.
--[X] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Medium]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of FedSun supplies at the worst possible moment.
--[X] Write-in: Conduct a major counter-intelligence sweep of all critical Helghan military institutions and research facilities as a precaution. These sweeps will be highly invasive, so each facility's sweep will be staggered to prevent loss of function.
-[X] Military Requisition And Design
--[X] Medium Sub-Capital Laser: Developed at the request of the Helghan Military after the acquisition of capital lasers from the Capellan Confederation, sub-capital lasers are less powerful than their full-sized brethren but weigh substantially less and can be mounted on dropships in large numbers. A single shot from the Medium Sub-Capital Laser is almost equivalent to being hit by a Falconsub-capital missile.
--[X] Target Acquisition Gear - Extended Range (TAGER)
---[X] A significant improvement over original samples and derivatives of the TAG systems developed by the Star League, the Helghast design boasts of a 33% increase in range at the expense of being twice as heavy and bulky. (+33% range/2 tons/2 crit slots)
--[X] Commissar-A System Defense Monitor (National Guard Vessel)
 
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I think this can be done next turn. We first should rotate our forces to get the ones who participated in the Mandate intervetion ready for the Outback, since they'll have a lot of experience with this.

So you want these people, who've spent the past year on campaign, away from their homes and families, to jump straight into the next war?

While I wont argue the point about experience, I do hope we dont run into morale and stress issues instead.

I mean, some of these people have just experienced a shit ton of war crimes. Some have been on the same battlefield as nukes.

Edit: id also like to spread the XP around a bit. Make sure our other armies have a chance at growing more competent.
 
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So you want these people, who've spent the past year on campaign, away from their homes and families, to jump straight into the next war?

While I wont argue the point about experience, I do hope we dont run into morale and stress issues instead.

I mean, some of these people have just experienced a shit ton of war crimes. Some have been on the same battlefield as nukes.

Edit: id also like to spread the XP around a bit. Make sure our other armies have a chance at growing more competent.
Ok, we'll rotate them out of the Mandate for fresh troops. And assign others for the Operation.
 
[X] Calm before the Storm
-[X] Captured Agents Spotted!
--[X] Try for stealth: While riskier than going in hard, trying for a stealthy approach could preserve both the Republic's diplomatic image and the positions of many agents.
-[X] Hearts and Minds
--[X] [] Quietly drop all aims and commitments to an independent buffer state in the former Celestial Mandate, and indicate to the Taurian Concordat and the Capellan Confederation that the Helghan Republic is instead willing to support their efforts to appeal to the populations of those systems, including suggesting that the Taurian Concordat take Menke as well.
---[X] Offer troops to assist in peacekeeping duties until the region stabilizes.
We should let this one go the Capellan Confederation obviously have a lot of interest in reclaiming they rebellious territories, heck they probably join ORDI to reclaim them. Trying to influence them for independence will no doubt breed resentment in the Successor State and we going to need they experience since we take them into ORDI and we may have inherit they enemies in the form of the FWL and FedSuns.
-[X] The Quiet Canopian
--[X] Nothing. It's not worth it.
-[X] Federated Suns:
--[X] Expand FedSuns intelligence network: Having placed a large number of agents within the lower levels of FedSuns society, now would be a good time to capitalise on the effort and expand the Republic's reach.
--[X] Infiltrate Military [Medium]: By infiltrating the military, we can more easily raid targets of opportunity, stage incidents, and gather intelligence on deployments.
-[X] ORDI Actions
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Small Arms, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable small arms ahead of time. Though there's a risk such an effort might be detected, it'll dramatically improve their ability to fight infantry. [-10,000,000 C-Bills]
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Heavy Weapons, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable heavy weapons ahead of time. While somewhat riskier than small arms, these weapons will be substantially more effective against vehicles. [-20,000,000 C-Bills]
--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable vehicles well ahead of time. While risky and expensive, smuggling in combat vehicles will greatly level the playing field. [-50,000,000 C-Bills]
-[X]Operation Chernobog (Outback Intervention)
--[X] Prepare War Material Stockpiles: In order to ensure ORDI units fighting in the Outback will have access to all the resources they need, we should build up stockpiles in nearby systems that can be drawn on as needed. [+0.5 ground support capacity]
--[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
--[X] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Medium]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.
--[X] Survey Loyalist defences [Hard]: Using agents already embedded in the Outback, we can survey their defenses ahead of time and dramatically reduce their effectiveness so long as the intel is no more than 3 months old.
---[X] Work together with Corcodian and Capellan intelligence agencies to increase the odds of success.
Both probably know the are very well and possible have more agents there than we do and survey defenses is critical to the the operation, we need to know the weakest and strongest areas to come up with proper plans.
--[X] Sabotage Loyalist infrastructure [Hard]: Using Republic operatives to take out planetary infrastructure across the Outback will doubtlessly hamper the ability of loyalists to fight against rebel forces.
--[X]Automatically Activated Upon the Intervention Starting
---[X] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Medium]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of FedSun supplies at the worst possible moment.
-[X] Military Requisition And Design
--[X] Medium Sub-Capital Laser: Developed at the request of the Helghan Military after the acquisition of capital lasers from the Capellan Confederation, sub-capital lasers are less powerful than their full-sized brethren but weigh substantially less and can be mounted on dropships in large numbers. A single shot from the Medium Sub-Capital Laser is almost equivalent to being hit by a Falconsub-capital missile.
--[X] Target Acquisition Gear - Extended Range (TAGER)
---[X] A significant improvement over original samples and derivatives of the TAG systems developed by the Star League, the Helghast design boasts of a 33% increase in range at the expense of being twice as heavy and bulky. (+33% range/2 tons/2 crit slots)
--[X] Commissar-A System Defense Monitor (National Guard Vessel)

Focus on supplies, the Outback need to be out of control from FedSuns quickly before the main army mobilizes and the best way to do that is sabotage the loyalist supplies, most of the forces there are probably equipped to handle rebellion not a invader army so it should not be too hard fight in the beginning but we can't afford to split our attention when the AFFS arrives to crush the party.
 
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I think this can be done next turn. We first should rotate our forces to get the ones who participated in the Mandate intervetion ready for the Outback, since they'll have a lot of experience with this.
I disagree that we should try and only use our most experienced troops; even if it isn't tracked, you actually generally don't want to keep your blooded troops on the front continuously, when its better to rotate them back for R&R and critically to allow their experience to percolate to the rest of the military. Furthermore, we have other armies. It's a pretty poor idea to concentrate all military experience in one force when we may well need to use all of them. 4th and 5th Armies may be blooded now, but we need to also have other formations with veterancy. Finally, the Mandate force might be experienced in high intensity general warfare, but the Outback operation is supposed to be a more limited war of lower scale.

Also, per Prom on discord, Chernobog begins in July and if we wait we leave the Taurians unsupported for several months.
[X] Calm before the Storm

-[X] Captured Agents Spotted!

--[X] Try for stealth: While riskier than going in hard, trying for a stealthy approach could preserve both the Republic's diplomatic image and the positions of many agents.

-[X] Hearts and Minds

--[X] Don't influence the referendum.

---[X] Offer troops to assist in peacekeeping duties until the region stabilizes.

We should let this one go the Capellan Confederation obviously have a lot of interest in reclaiming they rebellious territories, heck they probably join ORDI to reclaim them. Trying to influence them for independence will no doubt breed resentment in the Successor State and we going to need they experience since we take them into ORDI and we may have inherit they enemies in the form of the FWL and FedSuns.

-[X] The Quiet Canopian

--[X] Nothing. It's not worth it.

-[X] Federated Suns:

--[X] Expand FedSuns intelligence network: Having placed a large number of agents within the lower levels of FedSuns society, now would be a good time to capitalise on the effort and expand the Republic's reach.

--[X] Infiltrate Military [Medium]: By infiltrating the military, we can more easily raid targets of opportunity, stage incidents, and gather intelligence on deployments.

-[X] ORDI Actions

--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Small Arms, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable small arms ahead of time. Though there's a risk such an effort might be detected, it'll dramatically improve their ability to fight infantry. [-10,000,000 C-Bills]

--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Heavy Weapons, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable heavy weapons ahead of time. While somewhat riskier than small arms, these weapons will be substantially more effective against vehicles. [-20,000,000 C-Bills]

--[X] Smuggle In Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Outback): With the Outback close to the boiling point, it may be a good idea to supply rebel groups with deniable vehicles well ahead of time. While risky and expensive, smuggling in combat vehicles will greatly level the playing field. [-50,000,000 C-Bills]

-[X]Operation Chernobog (Outback Intervention)

--[X] Prepare War Material Stockpiles: In order to ensure ORDI units fighting in the Outback will have access to all the resources they need, we should build up stockpiles in nearby systems that can be drawn on as needed. [+0.5 ground support capacity]

--[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…

--[X] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Medium]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.

--[X] Survey Loyalist defences [Hard]: Using agents already embedded in the Outback, we can survey their defenses ahead of time and dramatically reduce their effectiveness so long as the intel is no more than 3 months old.

---[X] Work together with Canopian and Capellan intelligence agencies to increase the odds of success.

Both probably know the are very well and possible have more agents there than we do and survey defenses is critical to the the operation, we need to know the weakest and strongest areas to come up with proper plans.

--[X] Sabotage Loyalist infrastructure [Hard]: Using Republic operatives to take out planetary infrastructure across the Outback will doubtlessly hamper the ability of loyalists to fight against rebel forces.

--[X]Automatically Activated Upon the Intervention Starting

---[X] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Medium]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of FedSun supplies at the worst possible moment.

-[X] Military Requisition And Design

--[X] Medium Sub-Capital Laser: Developed at the request of the Helghan Military after the acquisition of capital lasers from the Capellan Confederation, sub-capital lasers are less powerful than their full-sized brethren but weigh substantially less and can be mounted on dropships in large numbers. A single shot from the Medium Sub-Capital Laser is almost equivalent to being hit by a Falconsub-capital missile.

--[X] Target Acquisition Gear - Extended Range (TAGER)

---[X] A significant improvement over original samples and derivatives of the TAG systems developed by the Star League, the Helghast design boasts of a 33% increase in range at the expense of being twice as heavy and bulky. (+33% range/2 tons/2 crit slots)

--[X] Commissar-A System Defense Monitor (National Guard Vessel)



Focus on supplies, the Outback need to be out of control from FedSuns quickly before the main army mobilizes and the best way to do that is sabotage the loyalist supplies, most of the forces there are probably equipped to handle rebellion not a invader army so it should not be too hard fight in the beginning but we can't afford to split our attention when the AFFS arrives to crush the party.
If possible, can I try to convince you to use my writein, that drops all commitment to an independent buffer state and instead tells the Taurians and Capellans they should go wild on making promises to lire those systems to them? Because as is, building up the buffer state without Victoria and Menke is going to be a major AP sink.

Also, I think that we should make it explicit that we are deploying our troops under Taurian operational command, basically for the TDF to use to support their troops as they see fit.
 
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Ok, we'll rotate them out of the Mandate for fresh troops. And assign others for the Operation.

Tbf we could probs ask for volunteers to go and help train and prep the greener troops. Assuming our psych professionals give the OK. We probably have people whose entire life is their military career and would probably be better off joining the next campaign.
 
--[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…

--[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (7 divisions from army 3, 2 Battlemech Regiments, 1 Hasta IIId squadron, 1 Noctis squadron and 1 Hecatoncheires squadron): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Chernobog, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
Remember we can bring in 15 warships at most without risking a full blown war. Adding the other Hecatoncheires and another Hasta IIId squadrons would bring it to a total of 15 warships.
 
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