- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
Helghan Liaison to the URC and the captured Helghan Spies upon seeing each other...
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
Helghan Liaison to the URC and the captured Helghan Spies upon seeing each other...
Hmm... It looks nice, but I wonder...
- Location
- USA
I mean I think possibly the only contraction I heard was when they mentioned Kerensky so on one hand that's a good sign.
otherwise on the update with the Fedsuns and Neo jacobist I feel like it might be elements of the FedSuns that are helping the Neo Jacobists.
As for the invasion it's bloody but an overall counter attack taking place seems to be doing overly well all things considered also noooooo Morgan!
If it's elements of the FedSuns who are helping the NeoJacs, we might be able to do a little trust building with Prince Morgan's government by bringing it to his attention and proposing a joint resolution of the problem.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I think he would find himself distinctly unsympathetic given he built an intelligence moat around himself and then made like the Romans do by building an entirely new spy agency behind that moat. Specifically because, upon learning his huge, expensive surveillance sweep turned up nothing despite all evidence pointing toward being heavily infested by ORDI spies, he realized he couldn't trust MIIO or the Office of Military Intelligence.
I mean, he's not wrong.
Regarding the next turn's military actions, we should be turning the Tamar pocket into a Tamar Salient, capturing worlds as west as Colmar and as north as Moritz, and as far south and east as Biota and Bessarabia. From this salient we'll be able to hit the Smoke Jaguars from two directions, actually recapturing FRR worlds for once, from Weingarten to Radstadt. This will form a partial encirclement of the forwardmost Snow Raven elements, and assuming the Combine can maintain momentum that might even turn into a complete encirclement if they manage to scythe back Jade Falcon encroachment to the east of there.
From there, we surround the Snow Ravens and destroy everything in that pocket.
Of course, these are hilariously optimistic projections, but assuming we can form that Tamar pocket into a true salient, and assuming the Dragoons can maintain the attention of Clan Wolf's warrior elite, we might be able to retake those FRR worlds at the very least.
I mean, he's not wrong.
Regarding the next turn's military actions, we should be turning the Tamar pocket into a Tamar Salient, capturing worlds as west as Colmar and as north as Moritz, and as far south and east as Biota and Bessarabia. From this salient we'll be able to hit the Smoke Jaguars from two directions, actually recapturing FRR worlds for once, from Weingarten to Radstadt. This will form a partial encirclement of the forwardmost Snow Raven elements, and assuming the Combine can maintain momentum that might even turn into a complete encirclement if they manage to scythe back Jade Falcon encroachment to the east of there.
From there, we surround the Snow Ravens and destroy everything in that pocket.
Of course, these are hilariously optimistic projections, but assuming we can form that Tamar pocket into a true salient, and assuming the Dragoons can maintain the attention of Clan Wolf's warrior elite, we might be able to retake those FRR worlds at the very least.
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Always find it funny how the narrative part of the story talks about mounting Helgan casualties are sapping war support only for me to scroll down to the casualty list to see that the entire conflict killed barely one and a half thousand soldiers. The numbers seem really whack when we consider that we have a multitude of systems to draw from and the fact that millions of refugees arrive each quarter.
Bros, a earthquake on Helgan produces more casualties than this entire war!
Bros, a earthquake on Helgan produces more casualties than this entire war!
- Location
- [REDACTED]- United States of America
All deaths in the US's global war on terror totaled to 30,000 over 20 years and we only reach that high by including suicides of former service members (who commit suicide at a much higher rate than the general population in a way that deserves attention.) without suicides a broad count gives only 7,057 deaths by direct action (whether hostile or non-hostile). And lets not forget that the count includes the entire Iraq War and occupation that followed which pitted the US against a state opponent with significant forces and militias under arms.
Yet expectations that there were unacceptable levels of deaths were one of the many drivers that pushed the US political establishment to eventually withdraw from the last public engagements with the War on Terror (many of the US's security commitments remain and one could and probably should argue the US is still fighting in the GWOT's era legacy but these conflicts are no longer nearly as salient to the US public nor is the US the prime mover in these conflicts anymore.)
Like at one point more Americans were being killed by vending machines on a yearly basis than the war in Afghanistan was causing US casualties.
The absolute magnitude of casualties is not the main issue but rather where they are relative to expectation for what is acceptable given the nature of the conflict.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Basically politicians sell a war as 'limited in scope' and there's an expectation also that, percentage-wise, if you have several thousand soldiers actively deployed to a conflict, as opposed to a full mobilization, and you're experiencing above average casualties, it's not 'a limited' conflict anymore, it's a 'foreign adventure for political aims'.
Practically the only time a voting public will accept higher than usual casualties is when the alternative is rolling over for foreign invasion, and I wouldn't call that 'accepting it with grace and understanding' so much as lacking much in the way of alternatives and possibly martial law being in effect preventing constituents from fully exercising their dissenting opinion about the nature of the conflict.
There are also always going to be anti-war voters and politicians who will consider any casualties unacceptable. And these people are the loudest and have the most readily absorbable messaging, i.e 'bring them home'.
Practically the only time a voting public will accept higher than usual casualties is when the alternative is rolling over for foreign invasion, and I wouldn't call that 'accepting it with grace and understanding' so much as lacking much in the way of alternatives and possibly martial law being in effect preventing constituents from fully exercising their dissenting opinion about the nature of the conflict.
There are also always going to be anti-war voters and politicians who will consider any casualties unacceptable. And these people are the loudest and have the most readily absorbable messaging, i.e 'bring them home'.
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Furthermore, from an IC perspective, we are giving the Clans too much relevance. From the perspective of the average Helghan citizen, the clans are not an immediate problem given that they are (literally) on the opposite corner of the galaxy. The only (IC) reasons we have to fight against the invasion is that their society is abhorrent and that we are defending a republic.
On the other hand we have other problems that are much closer to home. There's the reconstruction process in the Outback (and the NJs), the (mild) political unrest in the Concordat and the Trinity League integration. Any of those problems should be our main focus, not the two caste societies fighting each other.
That said, from an OOC point of view, the Clans are the big baddies and not pitting ourselves against them would be plain boring.
On the other hand we have other problems that are much closer to home. There's the reconstruction process in the Outback (and the NJs), the (mild) political unrest in the Concordat and the Trinity League integration. Any of those problems should be our main focus, not the two caste societies fighting each other.
That said, from an OOC point of view, the Clans are the big baddies and not pitting ourselves against them would be plain boring.
... if anything you are proving his point with this. 7000+ casualties versus 1000. Effectively Nazi's when it comes to the level of abhorrent society. If anything we shouldn't be having issues until we have passed the 5000 casualties mark! Realistically further given how America didn't get war weariness during WW2...
- Location
- [REDACTED]- United States of America
This is where we must keep in mind that the public expectations for casualties can still be really low by the nature of combat engagements in the setting. Like in Killzone warfare is not only highly lethal but industrial even apocalyptic in scale. But our population might have acclimatized to ideas of warfare being artisanal and less lethal (or been born into a society in the case of immigrants).
Similarly the salience in peoples minds of those casualties matter. How those casualties, and battlefield successes and reverses are represented form an idea in peoples minds of how the war is going and how exhausted or compelled to further heights of sacrifice for the war effort, During WWII most people did not in fact lose a family member in fact only 0.32% of the US population died as a result of the conflict which was a mercy compared to some countries like for example the Soviet Union. While still a very real tragedy that men and women in the prime of their lives died was still a fraction of a fraction of the overall population yet most people would guess an order of magnitude higher percentage of the US population died in the Second World War because those deaths were magnified in the public consciousness and still remain so even today as a part of the story-building that societies engage in about their place in the world and why and what they are doing.
That's because this isn't about casualties, it's about the vibe of casualties and how it affects public opinion, which is to be quite honest extremely realistic. In WW2 the vibe was that so long you weren't taking WW1 casualties you clearly doing something right, and it was all for the sake of freedom, the world and all that good stuff. By contrast, the vibe in America's Middle East adventures was that they were doing literally nothing of worth.
Here, Helghan's fighting to keep people in a horrible authoritarian yoke away from a more horrible authoritarian yoke. And even that is debatable in the Combine front. So if tolerance for casualties is low, that's because it is felt that not much is actually being achieved.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
It still takes time to ferry troops and then organize them for an offensive on the Clanner end of things. If they push immediately next turn and stall our counter offensive, fine, we dig our heels in and consolidate our gains with fortifications.
But if we can make another push and turn that pocket around Tamar into a spur, and the Lyrans manage to push back Coyote entirely to the Fire Mandril part of the contested territory, so much the better, because this is likely our only chance to set up for retaking those Free Republic planets from the Smoke Jaguars, and that's likely to be the only way we'll be able to snip off the middle of Snow Raven's most advanced elements and kick them out of the area (by cutting off reinforcements navally and allowing the Combine to eat away at them while we steadily bleed them dry of ammo, parts and troops).
If the next wave of attacks just totally pushes our shit in despite the Dragoons deploying five of the best Battlemech regiments ever to assist, we weren't keeping much of anything to begin with, and we'd likely be counting on Com* of all people to save our bacon.
Which I'm sure you can tell does not fill me with enthusiasm.
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EFW3
This is Walter Wireless signing off!
- Location
- Charleston
No!!!! Morgan you were the chosen one! You were supposed to live until the end, my friend! Also, none of the clanners wanted to even try taking him as a bondsman? Poor form!
- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
The thing with these counterattacks is that, while it certainly wouldn't be surprising to see reverses once the Clans resume operations, they're already doing the important bit. Unlike the rest of human space, the Clans cannot sustain such a consistent rate of losses, especially in stark contrast to the successor states.
Also, maybe focus on Lothan for a bit. Get some more cap for our troops to fill after that little bit of investment.
Also, maybe focus on Lothan for a bit. Get some more cap for our troops to fill after that little bit of investment.
Not going to agree with that sentiment. And even if I did, its a republic that is where most of the fighting is taking place last I checked?
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Their political ideology doesn't really matter, they're on the otherside of the Inner Sphere. The average person has hard time caring about a person living in the same city as them, let alone foreigners living in a different country on another planet. And this is after the Mandate War and the Outback War, which were both much closer to home, and we had time to rile them up over it.
It's a shame they don't see how many international brownie points this is buying the Helghan Republic, or how much more advanced our technology will become from beating the Clans like in pinata, but that's just the way it is. Some people don't see the fun in military adventurism.
It's a shame they don't see how many international brownie points this is buying the Helghan Republic, or how much more advanced our technology will become from beating the Clans like in pinata, but that's just the way it is. Some people don't see the fun in military adventurism.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
On the subject of why our population seems to be so sick of the war it's actually quite simple. We have been at war for the last 4 to 5 years (with a year of peace between the Outback intervention and clan invasion) and people are getting sick of it. People thought they were going to have peace return only for the Republic to go right back into war stance and go fight the clans.
Speaking of the Invasion with the wolf being pushed back quite a bit what do you guys think of switching focus to the Jaguars again to try and regain some FRR planets and building a new defense line before more clan reinforcements arrive?
Also any idea's for what to do with the Jacks next turn? Like continuing to infiltrate the Jacks seems like a waste of resources now that their aware that someone is attempting to infiltrate them and are on high alert. Personally I think we should try bribery for information after all we just got our pockets stuffed so we have a lot of money to use.
Finally for requisition what do you guys think about making stealthed missile platforms to either place along the defense line or in occupied space to deter the clans from advancing forward if they don't want to suddenly get swarmed with cap or sub cap Pet missiles. They don't have to be expensive either basically they have no armor using stealth coating to remain hidden and fire a single massive missile volley when the opportunity presents itself and that's it. They would be deployed using our stealth ships so the clans don't suspect a thing.
Speaking of the Invasion with the wolf being pushed back quite a bit what do you guys think of switching focus to the Jaguars again to try and regain some FRR planets and building a new defense line before more clan reinforcements arrive?
Also any idea's for what to do with the Jacks next turn? Like continuing to infiltrate the Jacks seems like a waste of resources now that their aware that someone is attempting to infiltrate them and are on high alert. Personally I think we should try bribery for information after all we just got our pockets stuffed so we have a lot of money to use.
Finally for requisition what do you guys think about making stealthed missile platforms to either place along the defense line or in occupied space to deter the clans from advancing forward if they don't want to suddenly get swarmed with cap or sub cap Pet missiles. They don't have to be expensive either basically they have no armor using stealth coating to remain hidden and fire a single massive missile volley when the opportunity presents itself and that's it. They would be deployed using our stealth ships so the clans don't suspect a thing.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Securing our flank really takes priority in this case considering our logistics were being threatened by Clan Wolf encroachment. See my previous posts after the recent update. We'd be going after Smoke Jaguar next, assuming this next stage of our counter-offensive succeeds.
Depends on what actions our further infiltration of the FS opens up. I assume we're getting close to the point where we'll have to consider drastic measures, but it depends on what the the listed actions that Prometheus mentioned in the update actually look like.
I think we don't really have a way to scale this up to any degree. We're already pretty much at the limit of what we can do outside Peace Turn actions or stuff like using War Turn AP to build a factory complex on Lothan. Which we should probably take care of soon if we want to maintain sustainable resupply against possible losses.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Not a lot, unfortunately. The Helghast are pretty No Fun Allow and almost none of our military hardware is available for private ownership. We haven't even had a loss where someone could steal anything good.
But who knows. Maybe that Black Marauder ate one of our units while we weren't looking and next time someone see it it'll have a shield.
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We are selling and sending tons of tons of weaponry it's not if stuff has gotten lost in translate it's how much has been "bounced off the truck", like we had a update were the public got mad that someone took a picture of a child soldier and they had a helgen rifle and we really didn't do anything because it's impossible to stop weaponry from traveling after a certain point.