I think the important thing is that we don't be too committed to any solution until we have feedback from the local populations - not to say we shouldn't provide a proposal, just be ready to change it in response to what reactions and feedback these worlds and populations give to our plan.
 
I think the important thing is that we don't be too committed to any solution until we have feedback from the local populations - not to say we shouldn't provide a proposal, just be ready to change it in response to what reactions and feedback these worlds and populations give to our plan.
This is reasonable, but keep in mind that things may very well not be clear cut. For example, there might well be planets where the numbers are something like: 30% want a single party state of the main ideology with surrounding ideologically compatible systems/ 35% want to go back to the Federated Suns or have a Feudal system/ 25% want a multi party democracy with nearby systems of varied ideologies/ 10% want to join the Concordat or Confederation. Additionally, ORDI has a legitimate interest in whatever state or states come out of this being a net positive to our alliance structure rather than simply depending upon us for independance.

This is my best effort at creating that mixed system.

[x] Attempted equity
-[x] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FIS/purple) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seada and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/blue), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens.
-
 
[x] Attempted equity
-[x] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FIS/purple) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seada and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/blue), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens.
-

I like your proposal, it seems to have a good balance and compromise, consolidating without unfairly bundling together disparate and/or conflicting ideological groups, while not fragmenting/"Balkanising" worlds to the point they can no longer function/operate as effective actors on the Inner Sphere scale. Just to check - is it cut off with that last dash point, or is it intended for the picture you've provided in the spoiler?

Also, I'm guessing the green outline indicates what Cappellans would be annexing?
 
I like your proposal, it seems to have a good balance and compromise, consolidating without unfairly bundling together disparate and/or conflicting ideological groups, while not fragmenting/"Balkanising" worlds to the point they can no longer function/operate as effective actors on the Inner Sphere scale. Just to check - is it cut off with that last dash point, or is it intended for the picture you've provided in the spoiler?

Also, I'm guessing the green outline indicates what Cappellans would be annexing?
It was intended for the picture. Its worth a thousand words after all :V

And yeah. Green's for Capellan, Amber's Taurian, Red's for Taurian stretch. I was trying to keep things so each nation had two at least semi compatible ideological blocks of roughly equal strength and a bunch of swing voters. Hopefully that results in messy but workable compromises instead of everyone trying to steamroll each other with mechs.
 
I think the worlds currently under the control of the rebel movements, rather than merely being places of unrest or conflict should be part of the new, independent nations if at all possible. Particularly Sin Seda and the Neo-Jacobists, since they're probably the most opposed to just becoming part of the Taurian Concordat.

EDIT: In particular, I'd say the systems of Robsart, Mendham, Lothair, and Brusett should become part of the FAS, since they were Notable Systems of the various non-Taurian Federalist Rebel Ideologies (the first two for Sin Seda, the latter two for the each of the Kerenskyists) and are currently under Revolutionary direct control.
 
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(X)- Plan I love democracy
Establish a temporary government/governing body zone thing under ORDI to coordinate the repair of infrastructure and ease reintegration of worlds back into the Confederation and Concordat or independence.

Splitting worlds between the Capellans and the Taurians based primarily on the pre-Reunification War borders with referendums on worlds that the turian and capellans dispute or wear there are no real claimes by either state.

The referendoms may result in a given world eventually joining the confederation, concordat, merging with other newly taken worlds to form a new state/s, or becoming an independent world affiliated with ORDI. Joining an existing state only happening once that state and the world in question agree both are ready for it.

edit named this kindof plan
 
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There end goal is the dissolution of nation states into pocket kingdoms with no true central authority, everyone fighting everyone else with only Comstar remaining as the single unifying center.

They want the entire inner sphere to regress to the point of pre industrialism, lose all knowledge of technology that could threaten comstar, and then effectively take control of people while seeming like the completely benevolent and uninvolved mailmen.

"Finally, the peasants have been reduced to illiterate collections of various small planetary communes. Now they will absolutely fall under our influence! ~ Wait, what do you mean they're unionizing?"
 
[X] Plan Alternate Equity
-[X] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FAS/blue) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seda and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/red), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other Marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens. Taurian gains are marked in black while Capellan gains are marked in green.
-[X] The Helghan Republic proposes to develop the Outback world's industries to a level equivalent to the reconstruction of the Capellan Confederation. To do this, reparations from the FS, both the money paid to the Outback and the money paid to ORDI, shall be redirected to fund such a rebuilding. The CC and TC will retain such monies as are required to rebuild the Outback worlds they have taken in. Additional funding as required to complete the rebuilding process shall be provided by all ORDI nations [1 AP/turn per polity] until reconstruction is completed. Spend 45 Influence to make this + the distribution plan happen.

A slightly alternate version of Monkeytypewriter's Attempted equity plan. The big issue I had was that it gave up a bunch of not only directly rebel controlled worlds, but ones noted as primary worlds for the sentiments of the rebel ideologies, to the Taurian Concordat, which I could see causing a lot of resentment (particularly Sin Seda, which was slated to give up both of their directly controlled systems, both of which are Notable ones for Sin Seda sentiment.) Specifically Robsart, Mendham, Lothair, and Bruset are part of the FAS in this. Meanwhile, I gave Glentworth and Lochmantle to the Taurians (they wanted them as part of their claims.)

I was considering whether or not we could do something on the case of Flintoft and Diefenbaker, and maybe even the Pleides Cluster (some sort of partition of it), but I'm already asking the Taurians to give up a decentish chunk, so I didn't want to press things too hard. The Pleides Cluster especially would be a huge mess.
 
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Hmm, one thing I missed was that the Taurians in fact haven't claimed Flintoft when I thought they had. So maybe I should put that as part of the FAS as well. I think things will go a bit smoother if as few non-Taurian Federalist directly controlled rebel worlds are put under Taurian administration as possible, since most of them I don't think would gel that well.

Also wondering whether Lothair and Brusett would fit better under the FAS or URC. Thoughts?
 
This is reasonable, but keep in mind that things may very well not be clear cut. For example, there might well be planets where the numbers are something like: 30% want a single party state of the main ideology with surrounding ideologically compatible systems/ 35% want to go back to the Federated Suns or have a Feudal system/ 25% want a multi party democracy with nearby systems of varied ideologies/ 10% want to join the Concordat or Confederation. Additionally, ORDI has a legitimate interest in whatever state or states come out of this being a net positive to our alliance structure rather than simply depending upon us for independance.

This is my best effort at creating that mixed system.

[x] Attempted equity
-[x] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FIS/purple) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seada and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/blue), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens.
-
This would cost around 10-18 influence to implement.


(X)- Plan I love democracy
Establish a temporary government/governing body zone thing under ORDI to coordinate the repair of infrastructure and ease reintegration of worlds back into the Confederation and Concordat or independence.

Splitting worlds between the Capellans and the Taurians based primarily on the pre-Reunification War borders with referendums on worlds that the turian and capellans dispute or wear there are no real claimes by either state.

The referendoms may result in a given world eventually joining the confederation, concordat, merging with other newly taken worlds to form a new state/s, or becoming an independent world affiliated with ORDI. Joining an existing state only happening once that state and the world in question agree both are ready for it.

edit named this kindof plan
This would cost around 10 influence to implement, but the Taurians will likely draw a hard line on taking control of systems at some point given the economic and political risks involved.

[X] Plan Alternate Equity
-[X] Two new polities, the Federation of Autonomous Systems (FAS/magenta) which is set up to be a three way balancing act between various flavors of Marxists, Sin Seda and various unaligned groups. Designed to be a loose group of systems that compromises a lot. Then you have the United Rimward Collective (URC/blue), Which is a mix of the Maoists, the Jacobinists and a smattering of neutrals and other Marxists. They're designed as a more centralized Republic drawing a fair bit of their founding myth from the old UHC, though reinterpreted through a secular lens.

A slightly alternate version of Monkeytypewriter's Attempted equity plan. The big issue I had was that it gave up a bunch of not only directly rebel controlled worlds, but ones noted as primary worlds for the sentiments of the rebel ideologies, to the Taurian Concordat, which I could see causing a lot of resentment (particularly Sin Seda, which was slated to give up both of their directly controlled systems, both of which are Notable ones for Sin Seda sentiment.) Specifically Robsart, Mendham, Lothair, and Bruset are part of the FAS in this. Meanwhile, I gave Glentworth and Lochmantle to the Taurians (they wanted them as part of their claims.)

I was considering whether or not we could do something on the case of Flintoft and Diefenbaker, and maybe even the Pleides Cluster (some sort of partition of it), but I'm already asking the Taurians to give up a decentish chunk, so I didn't want to press things too hard. The Pleides Cluster especially would be a huge mess.
This would cost around 10-15 influence to implement. It's slightly less than the original plan as you're not pushing the Taurians to take extra systems


As an aside, for those wondering where Chimeraguard got the information on home systems from, I edited the last threadmark to include a link to the ideologies informational threadmark.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover

In 2360, at the end of a blood-soaked war started by a martyred dictator, the power-hungry CEO of Stahl Industries unleashed a genocidal weapon on the inhabitants of Helghan. In the months that followed, blood and water flowed in equal measure as tyrant battled tyrant until, at last, the people...
 
Also wondering whether Lothair and Brusett would fit better under the FAS or URC. Thoughts?

Hmm. For Lothair would make more sense for it to be with the FAS. Considering that other worlds are already controlled by Trotskyist-Kerenskyism within the current proposed FAS borders sticking a single world in the URC where they will be disagreements doesn't seem like the right choice.

For Brusett it would be the same argument. Since Flintoft would be in the FAS that would make for a total of three Marxism-Leninism-Kerenskyism controlled worlds might as well make it four.
 
This would cost around 10 influence to implement, but the Taurians will likely draw a hard line on taking control of systems at some point given the economic and political risks involved.
Honestly, I think the Capelans are more overstretched than the Taurians at this point.

Taurian Concordat Pre War: 83
Mandate: 7
Outback: 28
Total: 118
% of worlds new: 29.66%

Capellan Confederation Pre War: 73
Mandate: 38
Outback: 13
total: 124
% of Worlds new: 42.74%

Its not the Taurians that should be worried about overstretching here.
 
It may be less troublesome for them despite the larger amount and percentage of worlds because most of those worlds were Capellan until relatively recently, so a lot of what they're doing is just re-establishing things.
 
I was kinda waiting on Prometheus to comment on something in Discord, but (to Chim as well):

-Is this the time, as part of a plan, to propose that we dedicate the AP gained from the FS to rebuilding the Outback? What's the Influence cost? I presume the Taurians and Capellans would retain their AP, just earmark it for rebuilding their new worlds.

-Assuming that we redirect this plus the reparations, which in total is equivalent to 50 AP over 5 years, how much more AP do we need to spend in order to get the Outback up to reasonable parity with at least the Aurigans in terms of development? What's the appetite of the rest of ORDI for a similar process as we did with the Capellans for building them up?

-Could we get the Cappies to take Kumquat/The locals to agree?
 
I was kinda waiting on Prometheus to comment on something in Discord, but (to Chim as well):

-Is this the time, as part of a plan, to propose that we dedicate the AP gained from the FS to rebuilding the Outback? What's the Influence cost? I presume the Taurians and Capellans would retain their AP, just earmark it for rebuilding their new worlds.
Yes.

The more influence you spend towards achieving that goal, the more likely it is to pass. The minimum would be 5.

-Assuming that we redirect this plus the reparations, which in total is equivalent to 50 AP over 5 years, how much more AP do we need to spend in order to get the Outback up to reasonable parity with at least the Aurigans in terms of development? What's the appetite of the rest of ORDI for a similar process as we did with the Capellans for building them up?
Note: I'm using the CapCon as the example here as they're the closest to the Outback in size and circumstances, and getting to their level of industry is a lower bar than what the Aurigans have currently.

For industrial development, you're looking at a region that has ~40% more solar systems* in it than the Capellan Confederation did when you started your investments there, which has a similar population density to the CapCon according to math done using the beta rules for Interstellar Operation's solar system generation, and which is starting from a worse position in terms of industry and infrastructure (which equates to a 50% increase in cost). As a result, the amount of AP you'd need to spend to get the Outback to where the CapCon was in 3047 is 40 (what you spent on the CapCon) * 1.4 (from the region's size) *1.5 (from the region's low development) or 84AP.

It's also worth keeping in mind that, as with the Capellan Confederation, this represents the ORDI upgrading a number of factories throughout the region that will then go on to spread said improvements to other systems over the years rather than upgrading all factories everywhere at once. It's also worth noting that this math includes the worlds taken by the CapCon and Concordat, and the total would reduce if you told them to sort their own shit out.

*If we're counting the Pleiades Cluster as a single solar system, which we really shouldn't since it contains 100 systems on its own, but ehhhh.

The other ORDI nations view joint investment as a necessity under the circumstances.


As you might expect, similar modifiers apply to the region's other issues, though certain tasks are much easier than others, so they won't necessarily cost as much AP in total.

-Could we get the Cappies to take Kumquat/The locals to agree?
Yeah, probably. Raising the idea is free, though it's not as isolated as it appears thanks to being in JumpShip range of its neighbours.
 
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