Tacit Ronin: The Power of Three

[LostDeviljho]

Yes, this is true, but please, don't treat me like a moron by yelling at me.

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...I apologize, that was uncalled for.

I was hoping I'd get some input on how much people want to transfer from Seattle to Everett before pulling a number out of nowhere.

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We need... 11100 R, at least More than that if we prioritize making a couple environmental stabilizers over a dockworks, which wouldn't be a bad plan.

 

[BungieONI]

...I apologize, that was uncalled for.


We need... 11100 R, at least More than that if we prioritize making a couple environmental stabilizers over a dockworks, which wouldn't be a bad plan.

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I forgive you, don't worry about it any further. Kaiju blood under the bridge.


Does that include the Kaiju Salvage Facilities we want to/should build? I'd personally make the Enviro stuff over the dockworks, given the kinda vulnerable nature of Everett's environs.

E: I'm assuming it does.

 

[Highwind]

We need... 11100 R, at least More than that if we prioritize making a couple environmental stabilizers over a dockworks, which wouldn't be a bad plan.

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Environmental Stabilizers would help much more than a Dockworks at this point, but I also want to add at least two, and hopefully three, more actions for Everett this turn. I want to spend one of these new actions next turn for a "clean up the Environment" action. That should technically be a Comms action, since it deals and interacts with our territory, so we might also want to improve that.

Of course, this depends on confirmation by Fyr that we are indeed allowed to make such an action and that it would fall under Comms.

Also, we have 33 thousand Resources to spend, plus 4500 from Neo-Seattle's Manufacturing, 500 from Everett's, and however many we get from the Kaiju. About 1500 from the three Cat IIs, 5000 from the Cat IV, plus 50% of the total thanks to the Kaiju Salvage Facilities, I think? I don't remember how much a Cat II is worth right now.

We still have quite a bit of money, but also a lot to invest in.

 

[LostDeviljho]

Does that include the Kaiju Salvage Facilities we want to/should build? I'd personally make the Enviro stuff over the dockworks, given the kinda vulnerable nature of Everett's environs.

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Nope. The vast majority of that cost is for the DP railgun emplacements that I want on Everett ASAP. They're why I raised Everett's defense to 4 off the bat, and would have been in that same plan, but making city augments in a different city doubles the action cost of getting set up.

 

[Nixeu]

Yo @Nixeu where'd you stick that draft plan? We're considering what to do in the coming downtime now.

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Apologies for the delay. I was stuck in Hyrule, killing Lynels and cursing my fragile weapons.

[] Plan Work-in-progress(?)
-[] Neo-Seattle Actions:
--[] Normal Actions:
---[] Build 2x VX-3 Super Fangblade (-1500 R)
---[] Install a pair of VX-3 Super Fangblades on Tacit Ronin
---[] Build 5x Jagdarium Superalloy Composite Plating (-1750 R)
---[] Install Super Composite Plating on Tacit Ronin's Right Arm.
---[] Research a J-Scale Munitions Factory City Augment, for free actions to make ammo
---[] Build 4x M-99 Bakelite Magazines (-400 R)
---[] Build 1x Solid Fuel Thrusters (-1000 R)
---[] Install 1x Solid Fuel Thrusters on Phenom Sable
---[]
---[]
---[] Send Units to Everett from Neo-Seattle
--[] Free Actions
---[] Replicate Grae's method of Teleportation for one target, as a Jaeger Augment. (No Token) (B-Tech)
---[] Research Movement-Enhancing Leg Modifications, based on HVMS. (J-Tech 1)
---[] Analyze the Jagdgewher and it's ammunition needs. (J-Tech 2)
---[] Reverse-Engineer Euphonium's Siege Laser (K-Sci 1)
---[] (C-Tech 1)
---[] (C-Tech 2)
---[] (C-Tech 3)
---[] Send 16500 Resources to Everett (Comms)
---[] Scan for Kaiju (Kaiju Hunt Scan)
---[] Recycle . (J-Recycling)
---[] Build (5) Conventional Units. (MPFs)
---[] Build 1 Naval Unit (Dockworks)
---[] Repair Strikes
-[] Everett Actions
--[] Normal Actions
---[] Increase Population from 3 to 6 (-7500 R)
---[] Increase Manufacturing from 2 to 6 (-9000 R)

Note that I'm assuming we can't roll sending troops and resources into one action, as well as focusing on building things for our Jaegers, which was something we wanted to do after how far south this fight went, and after looking over how old much of their gear is. The Breach action was also based on a proposal to attempt to understand Grae's teleportation's basics without using the token, so as to free us to use the token for mass teleportation research. Munitions Factory is based on our upcoming and regular need for ammo, and on GM implications about it having additional uses than just putting out ammo.

It does need quite a bit of work, but it was intended as a rough draft, and hopefully a way for us to preserve any ideas we had early on in the fight for after the fight was ended.

Edit: Thought process behind suggestions is below:

So, for those wondering why I'm not proposing investing still more in Pop for Everett, that's because Pop has been implied to be what causes larger Kaiju attacks, and I'd like for us to have better defenses and stuff before we go too crazy with our Population stat. Five actions a turn should be acceptable for the moment, I think. Manufacturing has, in the past, been linked to our ability to repair Jaegers, and it make Resources, so I figure it should have decently high priority.

I figure we should have some Jagdarium plating held in our reserves, and we definitely could use some Bakelite Rounds for Jagdhund. Given the new ammo system, we're going to need a free action to make more and keep our supply in decent shape, so I think the Munitions Factory is a good investment.The SFTs are there as a fix, temporary or otherwise, to Phenom Sable's mobility woes. This should hold us until we can research Leg Mods.

As much as I'd really like to build and install the new TN-0 Rapid Clotting Factor, it would delay Phenom Sable's moving to Everett, which would be bad. Given that we'll almost certainly either end up having to ship Phenom to Seattle to be repaired at some point, or upgrade our makeshift Shatterdome into something with more substance, I think we should have a chance to install it in the future. Possible alongside the Leg Mod.

This ended up being far more complete than I expected. The C-Tech actions I'm thinking could be useful for improving on the designs for the Tyr, since it's so squishy, or for reducing the prices of some of our Super-Heavies or other units.
I don't know how urgently we really need the Siege Laser right now, but it's about as good as most of our other K-Sci options.

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[Smithsguild]

Fangs for Jagdhund are something I consider essential and we could drop an action to build the Sovereign link and install it this turn too. We just need to decide on what kind of Fang we want.

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I made a serious suggestion re: fangs for Jagd before (I'm not sure if people thought I was speaking in jest) I could see some simplistic Bits being prop driven (think 4-8 rotor drones) self loading clips for her arsenal. She hits the eject on a clip it drops out, hovers safely to reconnect with her spinal storage, while another flies out of her spinal storage (?SEER?) and loads itself into whatever rifle she's using... Meanwhile Jagd can be busy acquiring her next target.

It should allow her at the least to speed the reload downtime.

For an actual Fang maybe allow Jagd some design time to upload us a basic AI kernel so we can get her a few 'Hounds' (AI driven MK. Zero's ) that work. If given a chance to build things with our resource, and that only she knows how to operate/program/control through her link, maybe she can produce that AI kernel w/o violating any KRAUN directives.

Just a few possible suggestions, throwing ideas at the wall... maybe something worthy will stick.

---Edit

Another worthy suggestion IMHO bit drones that do the 'painting' our scouts suffer so many casualties attempting. Might be a nice morale boost to reassign those pilots to something with teeth while Jagd's drones assume the high risk / high mortality 'painting' job.

 

[Nixeu]

So, working off some of the principles of the other vote, as well as stealing their ideas incorporating their suggestions, I've made several major updates to my working vote proposal.

[] Plan Work-in-progress 1.2
-[] Neo-Seattle Actions:
--[] Normal Actions:
---[] Build 2x VX-3 Super Fangblade (-1500 R)
---[] Build 5x Jagdarium Superalloy Composite Plating (-1750 R)
---[] Install a pair of VX-3 Super Fangblades and Super Composite Plating (Right Arm) on Tacit Ronin, Repair?
---[] Repair Jagdhund?
---[] Research a J-Scale Munitions Factory City Augment, for free actions to make ammo
---[] Build 4x M-99 Bakelite Magazines (-400 R)
---[] Build 1x Solid Fuel Thrusters with SFT Cut-off Switch (-1225 R)
---[] Install 1x Solid Fuel Thrusters on Phenom Sable
---[]
---[]
---[] Build 1 HGE-33 'Skadi' Transonic Deployment Craft. (5800R)
--[] Free Actions
---[] Replicate Grae's method of Teleportation for one target, as a Jaeger Augment or Mod. (No Token) (B-Tech)
---[] Research Movement-Enhancing Leg Modifications, based on HVMS. (J-Tech 1)
---[] Analyze the Jagdgewher and it's ammunition needs. (J-Tech 2)
---[] Reverse-Engineer Euphonium's Siege Laser (K-Sci 1)
---[] Research a supercooling system for the Surtr. If necessary, draw inspiration from or study supercold or cold Kaiju we have fought.(C-Tech 1)
---[] Improved the defenses and/or armor on the Tyrs (C-Tech 2)
---[] Upgrade Laser Vulcan technology to UV lasers (C-Tech 3)
---[] Send 16500 Resources and Units to Everett (Comms)
---[] Scan for Kaiju (Kaiju Hunt Scan)
---[] Recycle . (J-Recycling)
---[] Build (5) Conventional Units. (MPFs)
---[] Build 1 Naval Unit (Dockworks)
---[] Repair Strikes
-[] Everett Actions
--[] Normal Actions
---[] Increase Population from 3 to 6 (-7500 R)
---[] Increase Manufacturing from 2 to 6 (-9000 R)

Laser Vulcans are mounted on our planes, too, so we can possibly sneak that in as Con tech, at least for the initial research. Plus, I'd like it if our planes had more than the laser equivalent of pop-guns. Changed the phrasing on the supercooling to lessen any detrimental effects from making that suggestion.

The last two slots are mostly open because there's a ton of things we could be using them on right now, and I'd like input on which ones people think are best. I'm also considering going back over our more recent posts and seeing if any suggestions have slipped through the cracks and haven't reach the ideas doc.

@Fyrstorm: Are we currently able to convert/upgrade conventional units of one type into another via actions? Or would we need a dedicated City Aug for that? I'm thinking turning existing tanks into laser tanks, adding railguns to Murasames, etc.

Edit: I'm asking because I recall suggesting a City Aug to enable that, but it seems like something we should be able to do without one, the more I consider it.

 

[BungieONI]

The last two slots are mostly open because there's a ton of things we could be using them on right now, and I'd like input on which ones people think are best. I'm also considering going back over our more recent posts and seeing if any suggestions have slipped through the cracks and haven't reach the ideas doc.

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A few people seem okay with the Sunfire stuff, and it'll be helpful for clearing out various Kaiju nests.

 

[Smithsguild]

A few people seem okay with the Sunfire stuff, and it'll be helpful for clearing out various Kaiju nests.

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I'm interested in developing a delivery system for the Sunfire. Big ass missiles -or- big ass artillery. Either system should be Sunfire compatible but be designed to readily accept other payloads in the future.

 

[BungieONI]

I'm interested in developing a delivery system for the Sunfire. Big ass missiles -or- big ass artillery. Either system should be Sunfire compatible but be designed to readily accept other payloads in the future.

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Yeah that's what one of the research actions on my suggestion was, though we still need actually research the warhead since we didn't actually succeed last time.

 

[Nixeu]

A few people seem okay with the Sunfire stuff, and it'll be helpful for clearing out various Kaiju nests.

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Given that these are normal actions, and not Con Research actions, I think clearing the nests would probably be a better use of those actions, honestly. Though my paranoia is making me consider each one as a two-action proposition: one to do the thing, one reserved for repairs if needed. That's probably just paranoia, as I don't expect anything bigger than Cat 1 or 2 at either location, based on our Kaiju Radar.

 

[Highwind]

I made a serious suggestion re: fangs for Jagd before (I'm not sure if people thought I was speaking in jest) I could see some simplistic Bits being prop driven (think 4-8 rotor drones) self loading clips for her arsenal. She hits the eject on a clip it drops out, hovers safely to reconnect with her spinal storage, while another flies out of her spinal storage (?SEER?) and loads itself into whatever rifle she's using... Meanwhile Jagd can be busy acquiring her next target.

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Bits are the small, disposable stuff, while Fangs are the big, hard-to-replace stuff.

While I can see the merit of being able to quickly reload our ammo mid-combat, reloading has almost never been a problem for Jagdhund, given the M-99 Machine Cannon's rather large magazine and the fact most Kaiju try to close into melee as fast as possible.

If anything, a Fang capable of firing M-99 special ammo like the Special Bakelite would be a better option. Speaking of Special Bakelite, I'm of the opinion that the best thing for Jagdhund isn't extra attacks so much as something that slows down the enemy so she can get more shots in. The Dolch Gewehr can be devastating and the Machine Cannon can deal loads of damage, under the right circumstances, but the number of times we can fire them can be rather limited depending on how fast the enemy closes in.

The last two slots are mostly open because there's a ton of things we could be using them on right now, and I'd like input on which ones people think are best. I'm also considering going back over our more recent posts and seeing if any suggestions have slipped through the cracks and haven't reach the ideas doc.

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If there's no other pressing needs, I can think of three things that could use Standard Actions off the top of my head: one improving the Machine Cannon's AP ammo or researching one with higher Damage Bonus, another is improving the Allegorica in hopes of lowering the Mark requirement and the third would be improving or reducing the cost of the Mark IV Fury Reactor.

A distant fourth possibility is improving the IE-10 Electromagnetic Projector, but those three are the ones I prefer among our secondary concerns.

 

[Smithsguild]

Given that these are normal actions, and not Con Research actions, I think clearing the nests would probably be a better use of those actions, honestly. Though my paranoia is making me consider each one as a two-action proposition: one to do the thing, one reserved for repairs if needed. That's probably just paranoia, as I don't expect anything bigger than Cat 1 or 2 at either location, based on our Kaiju Radar.

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I'm not sure I agree, why is the sunfire NOT a conv research I saw nowhere that it was a design for Superheavy or Jaeger use merely a desire for as wide an area of effect warhead to wipe out swarms of cat zeroes. If I am in error Nix could you please Quote me the relevant section?

---edit

OH, I think I understand you meant the slots open were standard actions. I fail at reading comprehension sometimes...

 

[Smithsguild]

I agree the nests are a MAJOR priority. if doing one we should reserve a repair as well...

 

[Nixeu]

Current major contenders for the last two spots, in my mind:
-Raid Goryo nest
-Raid Vulcan nest
-Add Cut-off Switch to Tacit's SFTs
-Reverse Engineer Ascalon Blade (will require Regular Action research)
-Research Sunfire
-Research better Mk. IV Fury reactor

Or some other research that we want. Getting some Hound-Fangs for Jagdhund would be nice. Anything we feel like we have a pressing need for after that last battle, though I think I got most of those (energy weapons, better aircraft weapons that aren't missiles, increasing Phenom's mobility).

If there's no other pressing needs, I can think of three things that could use Standard Actions off the top of my head: one improving the Machine Cannon's AP ammo or researching one with higher Damage Bonus, another is improving the Allegorica in hopes of lowering the Mark requirement and the third would be improving or reducing the cost of the Mark IV Fury Reactor.

A distant fourth possibility is improving the IE-10 Electromagnetic Projector, but those three are the ones I prefer among our secondary concerns.

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Giving Jagdhund the Jagdgewher would help with the AP thing, at least to some degree. And I actually think Special Bakelite makes for a fairly good option against heavily armored targets, since even glancing blows should apply the debuff. Kinda like acid shells, in a way. The Allegorica is certainly a contender, though.

I'm not sure I agree, why is the sunfire NOT a conv research I saw nowhere that it was a design for Superheavy or Jaeger use merely a desire for as wide an area of effect warhead to wipe out swarms of cat zeroes. If I am in error Nix could you please Quote me the relevant section?

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I never said it didn't qualify as conventional research. What I said was that, given that my free Con Research slots are full of A. something both Bungie and I want, 2. something patching a serious hole in the viability of one of my babies, the Tyr, and Γ. trying to fix a fault in our airforce that seriously screwed us last fight, I can't slot it in as a Free action, and I think we have more important Normal Actions to take.

 

[BungieONI]

-Reverse Engineer Ascalon Blade (will require Regular Action research)

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This is Kaiju, not Regular, going by the text in the downtime where we did that. Highwind quoted it last page or two.

 

[Smithsguild]

I never said it didn't qualify as conventional research. What I said was that, given that my free Con Research slots are full of A. something both Bungie and I want, 2. something patching a serious hole in the viability of one of my babies, the Tyr, and Γ. trying to fix a fault in our airforce that seriously screwed us last fight, I can't slot it in as a Free action, and I think we have more important Normal Actions to take.

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My bad, you must have busy responding and missed my edit of same post as your quote. I apologize for the confusion.

My support would be behind either nest and a reserved action for repairs... if not needing the repairs go for the MK IV.

 

[Nixeu]

This is Kaiju, not Regular, going by the text in the downtime where we did that. Highwind quoted it last page or two.

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Right. Sorry, I vaguely recalled there was some research Fyr wanted us to use a regular action on at some point relatively recently, and that the Ascalon Blade research had failed due to using the wrong slot. So my brain figured those were the same event.

My bad, you must have busy responding and missed my edit of same post as your quote. I apologize for the confusion.

My support would be behind either nest and a reserved action for repairs... if not needing the repairs go for the MK IV.

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Edits don't seem to appear unless you refresh the page. By the time I saw it, I had posted. No worries about the reading comprehension fail. Happens to the best of us. Also, I managed to figure out how to extend a terrible joke to three options (albeit not easily, given that I'm using IOS), so it wasn't a total loss.

 

[Smithsguild]

Bits are the small, disposable stuff, while Fangs are the big, hard-to-replace stuff.

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Oh, like ARGES drones to eliminate more helo scout deaths? Bit

 

[Smithsguild]

Actually I could see stepping up our game -beyond- a simple ARGES bit, make them more like a snipers spotter. Measuring wind speed, barometric pressure, passing telemetry in real time to Jagd while still providing basic ARGES painting for our other troops.

---edit
by passing real time telemetry Jagd might be able to reduce the benefit of cover as the drone having a different viewpoint could allow Jagd know when the nasty Kaiju is going to stick its head out from behind the big rock. Or know where the kaijus head is behind the rock so that a high AP round can change their mind -forever-.

'Oracle' target acquisition Bit

 

[Highwind]

Current major contenders for the last two spots, in my mind:
-Raid Goryo nest
-Raid Vulcan nest
-Add Cut-off Switch to Tacit's SFTs
-Reverse Engineer Ascalon Blade (will require Regular Action research)
-Research Sunfire
-Research better Mk. IV Fury reactor

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The Fury can wait a bit since we won't be able to buy it until Everett is mostly self-sufficient anyway.
The Ascalon Blade research can also be used with the K-research action, as the qoite on my post uo above suggests.
The cut-off switch on Tacit's SFTs aren't quite as important as everything else on the list in my opinion.
Sunfires can wait a bit as well, if we can't fit them in now.

This leaves raiding the Kaiju nests, and I consoder Goryo's to be the priority since the bits Fyr forgot to delete from Goryo's sheet show that any Kaiju that's left alone there for long enough can become Goryo the Second. Plus, there's the Hellgate tunnel down there.

Giving Jagdhund the Jagdgewher would help with the AP thing, at least to some degree. And I actually think Special Bakelite makes for a fairly good option against heavily armored targets, since even glancing blows should apply the debuff. Kinda like acid shells, in a way. The Allegorica is certainly a contender, though.

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The Jagdgewehr is pretty amazing, as I've stated before.
The Special Bakelite is better than the Acid shells, since they apply the debuff on hit, even of it deals no damage.
And yeah, the Allegorica is a contender, but I don't consider it a very strong one, what with the price tag and our current commitments, not to mention a Hypercompact Reactor might not be enough to bring the requirements down to Mark III.

Right. Sorry, I vaguely recalled there was some research Fyr wanted us to use a regular action on at some point relatively recently, and that the Ascalon Blade research had failed due to using the wrong slot. So my brain figured those were the same event.

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That was the Fury Reactor, actually. If we want to improve that thing, we have to use Standard Actions.

 

[LostDeviljho]

The Breach action was also based on a proposal to attempt to understand Grae's teleportation's basics without using the token, so as to free us to use the token for mass teleportation research.

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I think that would be better served as a general research.

 

[Highwind]

I think that would be better served as a general research.

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Technically, we get a +1 bonus over a standard Research Action when using the Breach-tech action, for a total of +11, so researching that as a Breach-tech action might be the best idea.

This is unlike the other labs, where we only get half the Research bonus, plus the number of lab augments. And the Conventional R&D Institutes only get one every two labs, so we have extra incentive to build one more and get that +7 instead of the current total bonus of +6.

 

[LostDeviljho]

Technically, we get a +1 bonus over a standard Research Action when using the Breach-tech action, for a total of +11, so researching that as a Breach-tech action might be the best idea.

This is unlike the other labs, where we only get half the Research bonus, plus the number of lab augments. And the Conventional R&D Institutes only get one every two labs, so we have extra incentive to build one more and get that +7 instead of the current total bonus of +6.

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I meant more because I'm not sure it's entirely in B-tech's ballpit.

 

[Highwind]

I meant more because I'm not sure it's entirely in B-tech's ballpit.

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Well, Teleportation clearly involves spatial shenanigans and has similarities with other Breach effects like the Breachgate, so I wager it fits in with Breach-Tech's specialty. Plus, we aren't using the token, so we won't lose much if it fails.