Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?

  • Mercy (Diplomacy and Expansion)

    Votes: 138 82.6%

  • Ruthlessness (Kick the Duchy in the Balls)

    Votes: 36 21.6%

  • Thule (Yeeni Handholding and Piscarian Cuddling)

    Votes: 64 38.3%
  • Total voters
    167
Voting is open
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Okay so 621 was Chaos corrupted enough that it was giving Neon trouble. I am beginning to think that Chaos spent most of its load taking out Neon and couldn't fight anyone after the fact.

Edit: I sense fuckery
 
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We should probably apologize to the Mashan and say we meant no offense. It's just that from our experience, former Imperial humans can be hard to deal with and thought that was what we were dealing with.
 
Ugh.

I know it's just Diplomacy Fuckfuck games going on, but it's still irritating to be treated like a pariah by everyone the instant the immediate crisis goes away.
 
Alectai said:
Ugh.

I know it's just Diplomacy Fuckfuck games going on, but it's still irritating to be treated like a pariah by everyone the instant the immediate crisis goes away.
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We should respond accordingly then. They want to imply we just swooped in they don't get the system. Honestly this being diplomacy just means that everyone knows how the game is played.

Edit: Possession is 9/10ths of the law and we possess the system they are demanding back so unless they are offering some really juicy shit then lol lmao even
 
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One Autumn Leaf said:
We should respond accordingly then. They want to imply we just swooped in they don't get the system. Honestly this being diplomacy just means that everyone knows how the game is played.
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Except apparently no, they expect us to have a full understanding of everything about them and treat us not having a full understanding of everything about them as an excuse to be bullish and work against us at every turn.

Admittedly, there's a good reason for them to be upset about it in context, but for a "Temple Authority", we know surprisingly little about their practices because apparently they don't advertise more than the basics to strangers. Though it doesn't help that the vote as written could be very easily slanted as insulting, and I failed to be paranoid enough to rally for an adjustment on that note when the broad strokes weren't actively offensive.

It's just every time I think we're doing okay, we get smacked in the face with how we're not doing well enough. "Oh you absolutely could have been treated as liberators but you didn't commit to War while digesting a polity twice your size and so now you have to deal with being treated as an opportunistic fuckwit by people who are just Much Better People than you in general" It's like we're the only fucking people in the setting with a 3 AP per turn limitation, and everyone else has some way of cheating that system. Like how Dogmatic powers can just auto-claim uncontested systems as part of an Operation and colonize them as a free action (While also being able to have every individual system take its own set of actions and then just commandeer them, which explains how Neon outproduced us so hard), and how Chaos can apparently Just Buy Actions as long as they have enough people to sacrifice.
 
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HeroCooky said:
For the Alliance, the Lamenters were those who had risked, lost, and worked far more and harder than the Federation to see them safe, and their delegation was very aware that, though allies, the Lamenters weren't subjects to the Federation.
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If they want to play that game, should we ask what the Lamenters want? The Lamenters get a system of their choice and then ask us assistance for colonizing and setting up the planet.

That only if Chyron is ok with it. If he doesn't want to get pulled into political fuck fuck games, I'm ok with leaving that tactic outside the door.
 
The Laurent said:
These motherfuckers. I mean, I'm willing to compromise, but discounting the extent to which the entire Lamenter thing was founded on our efforts is... frustrating.



It's that they view us that way, we could if we were assholes beat both of them up, especially the Shipwright's Alliance. They just... don't see it that way.
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They dont understand our history. Especially with respect to the Lamenters. They just see the Lamenters as yet another foreign power they can appeal to.

Putting our relationship with the Lamenters in terms of either ally OR subject is too reductive. The Lamenters do their own thing yes, and no they dont answer us. But we are very much tied at the hip. We go where they go, they go where we go. They very much have a seat at our table and a say in our government even. They are as much a part of the Glimmering Federation as the Glimmering Federation is a part of the Lamenters.

I dont think the other powers really understand what a Space Marine chapter even *is* or how they relate to us.

@HeroCooky Am I wrong?
 
Being diplomatic is not the same as being a doormat. We should apologize to the Mashan because we accidentally insulted them.

But we should also keep the entire Yivv system. We really want it and I don't think the other two are willing to fight us for it after just defeating Chaos.
 
What I'm hearing is that, besides the demands/requests for certain systems or planets, we need to thoroughly explain a lot of our history, learn theirs, and then try to get a more accurate translation going.

Preferably get the translator first, though, maybe our Psykers could help with that?

Can't negotiate in good faith with people we barely know or understand, culturally and literally.
 
Alectai said:
Look, claiming we didn't "Give it our all" when we committed our entire mobile force to the fight and then launched a separate ground invasion on top of that is ridiculous. We'd have been hard pressed to move much faster than we did given how Neon had just settled the fuck down when this all caught fire, problems caused by 621 in the first place, including the fucking Space Marines they had at the time (Which seemed to have disappeared afterwards)
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Yeah, but the Alliance sees things through a far more emotional sense than you, and the Mashan also see things a bit differently.
For you, this war was about punching down Chaos and keeping shit from spilling over.
For the Mashan, this was a Major Religious Imperative urging them to intervene. Getting systems with important minerals is a good side-effect for them.
For the Alliance, it was a Total War To The Knive, with their Capital System's population only saved from a general evacuation (that would have left the majority behind) to their other systems by the interference of the Lamenters.
Profilozof said:
@HeroCooky does the Alliance have other systems in the neighbouring sub-sector and if yes how many
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They have 9 other systems, with 11 planets. They number to around ~4 Billion people (~40% in their Capital System). The Irrita, their allies, have 2 systems with 4 planets and ~1 Billion People.
Alectai said:
Ugh.

I know it's just Diplomacy Fuckfuck games going on, but it's still irritating to be treated like a pariah by everyone the instant the immediate crisis goes away.
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They aren't tho? This is their First Salvo to get you to back down and for them to gain MAXIMUM GAINZ.
And since everybody's got their dick now on the table with the hammers out, people can start arguing more calmly about what they want and how.

Like people already suggested, you can now apologize for a misstep and offer context, argue about legalities, needle for minor concessions to get greater ones once you let them fall, and all the wonderful wonderous things diplomats do that make everyone mad they didn't get everytthing but not mad enough to start a war because they got enough.
Profilozof said:
Another question: Oh, great, QM @HeroCooky. Would helping the Alliance fix the damage of chaos occupation be one action or more?
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One Action.
Alectai said:
Except apparently no, they expect us to have a full understanding of everything about them and treat us not having a full understanding of everything about them as an excuse to be bullish and work against us at every turn.
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Again. Diplomats. Cross-Species Psychology and Language Barriers. Diplomacy. People do be saying stuff to get shit.
Professor Vesca said:
@HeroCooky Am I wrong?
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Nope. In fact, here's a freebie: you can gain shit by explaining your relationship to the Lamenters to the Alliance and Authority. Because the first only knows them as The Angels Of Death and are not grokking that the Lamenters could just be people that need aid, and the latter knows them only as "Gene-Soldiers."
Alectai said:
It's just every time I think we're doing okay, we get smacked in the face with how we're not doing well enough.
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The name of the game isn't "One Sacrifice At A Time" for nothing. You not getting the "Good Feels" despite doing *gestures to everything you did* being a major "Good Feels" part is a deliberate narrative choice by me. Like, look back at what you did and how people actually live when I show them to you. You are doing good. You are genuinely helping people live happy lives. In 40k.

The baseline of the setting is "Everything Sucks."
The baseline you have in your nation is "I'm actually content."
 
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Amilia said:
Being diplomatic is not the same as being a doormat. We should apologize to the Mashan because we accidentally insulted them.

But we should also keep the entire Yivv system. We really want it and I don't think the other two are willing to fight us for it after just defeating Chaos.
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All we really care about Yivv system is the moon/planet Tom frankly.
 
HeroCooky said:
Yeah, but the Alliance sees things through a far more emotional sense than you, and the Mashan also see things a bit differently.
For you, this war was about punching down Chaos and keeping shit from spilling over.
For the Mashan, this was a Major Religious Imperative urging them to intervene. Getting systems with important minerals is a good side-effect for them.
For the Alliance, it was a Total War To The Knive, with their Capital System's population only saved from a general evacuation (that would have left the majority behind) to their other systems by the interference of the Lamenters.

They have 9 other systems, with 11 planets. They number to around ~4 Billion people (~40% in their Capital System). The Irrita, their allies, have 2 systems with 4 planets and ~1 Billion People.

They aren't tho? This is their First Salvo to get you to back down and for them to gain MAXIMUM GAINZ.
And since everybody's got their dick now on the table with the hammers out, people can start arguing more calmly about what they want and how.

Like people already suggested, you can now apologize for a misstep and offer context, argue about legalities, needle for minor concessions to get greater ones once you let them fall, and all the wonderful wonderous things diplomats do that make everyone mad they didn't get everytthing but not mad enough to start a war because they got enough.

One Action.

Again. Diplomats. Cross-Species Psychology and Language Barriers. Diplomacy. People do be saying stuff to get shit.

Nope. In fact, here's a freebie: you can gain shit by explaining your relationship to the Lamenters to the Alliance and Authority. Because the first only knows them as The Angels Of Death and are not grokking that the Lamenters could just be people that need aid, and the latter knows them only as "Gene-Soldiers."
The name of the game isn't "One Sacrifice At A Time" for nothing. You not getting the "Good Feels" despite doing *gestures to everything you did* being a major "Good Feels" part is a deliberate narrative choice by me. Like, look back at what you did and how people actually live when I show them to you. You are doing good. You are genuinely helping people live happy lives. In 40k.

The baseline of the setting is "Everything Sucks."
The baseline you have in your nation is "I'm actually content."
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"You misunderstand. Where the Lamenters go, we are there also. Where we go, so too will you find the Lamenters. You say they are the ones who sacrificed. They are but the second head of the same great beast. If they did not request us to aid them? Then it is merely because they judged they did not require it. The Lamenters speak in our government. Every space marine you see who died? Every 'gene soldier' who fought Chaos? They were likely recruited from Candle Station, the heart of our faith and the seat of our government. If not there, then from one of the worlds we control. Every piece of armor they wear? Every bolter and pistol? Every sword and tank and bullet they fire? We made them. Every serf? They cae from us. The only one who did not was their Chapter Master, the last of their order before we *both* fought and died and survived the Dark Mechanicum, servants of Chaos, to build *together* all that we have".

"So do not say to us we did not sacrifice, that it was the Lamenters who fought and died. For every Lamenter slain is a bruise upon the Glimmering Federation. How dare you imply that we did not, do not, and will not, support them even unto our own destruction, or that they will not do the same for us".
 
[] Plan Cooperation, Conciliation, and Compromise
-[] Support the return of the Weznicritt and Kalikrax systems to the Shipwrights Alliance
-[] Offer a compromise for the Yivv system - the Shipwrights Alliance can have claim and control over most of the system (Love's Huff, Broken Line, Fixxy), but the Federation claims control over the planet Tom and its orbitals
--[] The Federation is guaranteed free movement to and from Tom through the system
--[] A space station shall be constructed in the system with joint ownership between the Alliance and Federation, to allow for coordination and future cooperation
-[] A Civilian Trade Agreement shall be signed between the Federation and the Shipwright Alliance
-[] Support the Mashan Temple Authority's control over the Murrs system, in exchange for allowing the Alliance to send a recovery mission for the Holy Data-Banks and offer a minimum of Refined Metals or a set percentage of all mined metals within Murrs (whichever is higher) for a century
-[] Reaffirm our own claim to Zetraneum
--[] Offer the Alliance an advisory role in the uplifting of the people of Zetraneum and the right to establish cultural centers to explore and celebrate their shared history
-[] The Shipwright's Alliance, Federation, and the Mashan Temple Authority will establish embassies with each other
-[] Offer an official apology to the Mashan Temple Authority for insinuating they could not look after the needs of their human populations
-[] Share the full casualties sustained by the Federation during our short, but pivotal, contribution in the war against Chaos
-[] Explain the specific relationship between the Lamenters and Federation to the Alliance and Mashan
--[] Bluntly state that the Lamenters were sent to Kapion's Hope at the explicit request of the Federation as part of our overall operation, and could just as easily have been regular Federation ground forces instead if planned differently

A slight variation on the plan proposed by @aceraptor
 
Also, @Alectai, I do wish to remind you that Dogmatic, Iconoclastic, and Heretical Polities have mechanical and narrative differences that scale with how they adhere to those paths.

Dogmatics can go Empire, Expansion, and Military the hardest, Hereticals cheat by literally gutting themselves and others for gains that do jack shit on a long-term basis, while Iconoclasts are Society Builders who ramp up the more ramps they have.

You would not be where you are if you had gone Dogmatic or Heretical. Your reward for building actually functional societies within 40k is that they can go hard when actually called to do so. You just never had to go hard. Because there was no need. You were under pressure, you were worried, or under attack, but at no point has anyone every actually been a threat large enough for you to feel the need to say: "Fire up the factories, everyone is now either a worker or a soldier."

And fun fact: that shit allows Iconos to go really fucking hard.

Edit: I am speaking construct A Task Fleet Per Turn hard here.
 
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[] Plan: A foot in the door
-[] Embassy with both good.
-[] trade with Alliance also good
-[] Support the Mashan Authority's compromise offer over Murrs.
-[] Say sorry to Mashan Authority; you meant no insult, just a worry over how your fellow men would act after being occupied by chaos and after their plot to destroy the subsector-wide Neon and using the experience you gained dealing with said collapse and corruption that followed you wanted to offer a hand to fellow sane power in the stars, so the post-war transition is easier. After all, victory on the battlefield is only the first part of a full triumph against chaos.
-[] Give up Love's Huff and its moon, Broken Lime. You will keep Fixxy and its moon, Tom, because you plan to test curing chaos corruption on a planetary level on Tom, among other things.
-[] In exchange for keeping Fixxy and Tom and leaving Zetraneum alone under our protection (until those people decide to look again to the stars after healing from the trauma of being a pre-space-age civilisation having to deal with chaos invasion from the stars and can decide if they want to join us, Alliance, or stay independent), we will offer our help to repair damage to the planets they regain after years of chaos occupation.
-[] Slightly complain about lack of acknowledgement of [31%, but in numbers] of troops that died during the conflict and remaining personnel who fought and the disregard of logistical problems that raids caused to chaos, including preventing them from casting the major ritual. Not to mention all the people on the homefront who worked to supply them and Lamenters. As even the greatest warrior can't fight for decades on an empty stomach, without weapons and without reinforcements.
 
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Okay. Given the information, here's a potential plan:

[] Plan: Context and Acceptable Compromise
-[] First, apologize to the Mashan delegation for the unintended insult. And give some context about why the Federation offered what it did (the general poor state of the galaxy in terms of shit being fucked)
-[] Second, give context for the Federation's entry into the war into 621- the Neon Protectorate and its fall and the sheer slog that it had been to push through to 621.
-[] Third, explain the origin of the Federation and its relationship with the Lamenters space marine chapter.
-[] The Federation proposes the following compromise:
--[] Offer a compromise for Yivv system- the Shipwrights Alliance can have claim and control over Love's Huff and Broken Line but the Federation claims control over the planet Fixxy and Tom. This is in part to try to learn how to cleanse and reclaim territory that had been so corrupted by the Enemy.
--[] Support the Mashan Authority's compromise offer over Murrs.
--[] Support Weznicritt and Kalikrax being returned to the Shipwrights Alliance
--[] Offer civilian trade agreement between the Shipwrights' Alliance and the Glimmering Federation.
--[] Set up embassies in the Federation by both the Shipwrights' Alliance and the Glimmering Federation.
--[] Zentraneum will be a Federation Protectorate, but in exchange, the Federation will offer to help repair the damage on the Shipwrights' Alliance worlds caused by Chaos.
 
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HeroCooky said:
By dint of them only having production lines within your territory, and you providing them with much of their mundane or non-critical gear; yes.
Around ~25 Billion people.
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I assume that at some point they will become a bit more independent being a fleet-based chapter, but I dont see a time where they wont be tied to the Federation in some form or fashion.
 
aceraptor said:
-[] Second, give context for the Federation's entry into the war into 621- the Neon Protectorate and its fall and the sheer slog that it had been to push through to 621.
-[] Third, explain the origin of the Federation and its relationship with the Lamenters space marine chapter.
-[] The Federation proposes the following compromise:
--[] Weznicritt and Kalikrax returned to the Shipwrights Alliance
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While I agree with it on principle, Weznicritt and Kalikrax aren't really ours to compromise; agreeing with the other sides that they can exchange said territory isn't really that important if we had an overwhelming presence over them, sure. But we are about equal to the temples, so I would put it as a separate thing; maybe the federation sees no problem with said deal or something like that.

As for context, I would omit some facts and nearly say that chaos collapsed the whole subsector, and we needed to deal with that to deny it to industry and the population.
 
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