What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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I disagree, the Libra is perfectly fine, and we've got DP on the table once we actually win a fight and have a chance to poke one of the wrecks.

Don't get caught up dreaming of pie in the sky, every action is precious.

I feel like you can't say "The Libra is perfectly fine" and also spend an action refitting it. Honestly if there's a cool Frigate idea we have, getting MI 3 and 4 and a new Frigate would be the way to go, if a Frigate is what we need.

@HeroCooky it was only the SDF and the Kil'drabi in the Itani battle right?


Better military industry wouldn't have helped in the Itani battle since the Protectorate was outright going to do a light exterminatus with atomic munitions.

I'm deeply skeptical of their capacity to actually just do that in the sense that the entire Warhammer 40k setting is, by design, set up so that you have to do Ground Battles. If actually people could just ignore that and destroy every planet they didn't like, the entire setting would be unrecognizable. They're prepared with nukes, but I doubt that nukes alone would be entirely enough. As Exterminatus-Happy as the Imperium is, it still fights a ton of ground battles, and there has to be a basic functional reason.
 
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Another thing we should start doing is colonizing. So far we've only actively tried colonizing Itani, and
IIRC, the initial Libra was built with a 12 DP budget. We've gotten 3 DP and a new carrier-specific equipment since then, which I feel is enough to warrant a new design, but I'm not tightly bound to the idea. I've designed a brawler light cruiser that I can throw out if we decide that's a better idea.
I don't think an extra 3 DP would be worth it at the moment. The Libra does its job well enough and right now what we lack most is the ability to hold the line. Though we also need to figure out how to get our Warp Transit improved with Hymms of the Machine.
 
And we completely missed their Warp Emergence?

I imagine it won't be quite so easy for them next time now that we caught them red handed I hope?

Anyway, thanks for the info. Plan incoming.
They emerged months out, so yeah.
And yes, the Itani SDF is now busy seeding Deep Space with sensor beacons, as will your other systems, alongside making it institutional.

All Praise Iconoclasm Allowing One To Learn From Mistakes!
@HeroCooky Regarding the Hyms of the Machine equipment, if we have multiple ships within a fleet that has it, does every ship of that type need to have a Choir on it or just the one?
The first, as both redundancy and to allow more ships to join the fleet.
How many DP did the original Libra cost?
IIRC around 12-ish?
@HeroCooky it was only the SDF and the Kil'drabi in the Itani battle right?
Yep.
 
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I feel like you can't say "The Libra is perfectly fine" and also spend an action refitting it. Honestly if there's a cool Frigate idea we have, getting MI 3 and 4 and a new Frigate would be the way to go, if a Frigate is what we need.

...

(Points at the actual text of what I actually posted)

I'm building a Libra

How can I refit one without a design for a refit?

I'm currently also trying to see if I can get a Pathfinder Frigate to also have any other benefits to a battlegroup, so please stand by and give me some time to cook, for the love of god
 
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I feel like you can't say "The Libra is perfectly fine" and also spend an action refitting it. Honestly if there's a cool Frigate idea we have, getting MI 3 and 4 and a new Frigate would be the way to go, if a Frigate is what we need.
Alectai is building a new Libra- which is definitely needed.

We can't refit a design without Designing a new variant first.
 
...

(Points at the actual text of what I actually posted)

I'm building a Libra

How can I refit one without a design for a refit?

I'm currently also trying to see if I can get a Pathfinder Frigate to also have any other benefits to a battlegroup, so please stand by and give me some time to cook, for the love of god

Apologies, it said Construct/Refit and I read that as "Refit" and was like, "Why?"
 
Going to work out a design for our Pathfinder ship, I worked the numbers out and figured out a Frigate is the best weight class for it. I just need to do some research to figure out what a good name is, but I'll crunch a design so we can hopefully make this work.

May I ask why you believe a Frigate is the best choice for our Pathfinder? Wouldn't a Destroyer be better so that we can max out Acceleration and maneuverability so nothing can catch it? An unarmed frigate like the Pathfinder would have to be could still get chased down by Cobra Destroyers of it tried to deny battle and the Cobras were really determined.
 
They emerged months out, so yeah.
And yes, the Itani SDF is now busy seeding Deep Space with sensor beacons, as will your other system, alongside making it institutional.

All Praise Iconoclasm Allowing One To Learn From Mistakes!
say what if we spend an action to double down, creating some orbital/void defense stations or more scout monitors to see stealth units? can that be an action to fortify a system.

can we also fortify our planets and built bunkers with arms, supplies, and food so to make the planet exterminatus resistant (doubt we can save everyone but i rather have a 80% casualty rate instead of a 99-100%)
 
May I ask why you believe a Frigate is the best choice for our Pathfinder? Wouldn't a Destroyer be better so that we can max out Acceleration and maneuverability so nothing can catch it? An unarmed frigate like the Pathfinder would have to be could still get chased down by Cobra Destroyers of it tried to deny battle and the Cobras were really determined.

We don't have enough Choirs to spam them, so we want them to have a higher innate toughness. Doesn't matter if we can build 4 per action if we can only actually field 3 total.
 
May I ask why you believe a Frigate is the best choice for our Pathfinder? Wouldn't a Destroyer be better so that we can max out Acceleration and maneuverability so nothing can catch it? An unarmed frigate like the Pathfinder would have to be could still get chased down by Cobra Destroyers of it tried to deny battle and the Cobras were really determined.
The thing is, if we go all in on speed it would be at the expense of defense. And banking on "Nothing will catch us" is not something that works all the time, since even the Eldar whose whole thing is being fast as fuck still get caught, and their ships are likely faster than we could hope.
 
say what if we spend an action to double down, creating some orbital/void defense stations or more scout monitors to see stealth units? can that be an action to fortify a system.

can we also fortify our planets and built bunkers with arms, supplies, and food so to make the planet exterminatus resistant (doubt we can save everyone but i rather have a 80% casualty rate instead of a 99-100%)
You can do both, just use the (Write-In) Action to do so.
 
I'm deeply skeptical of their capacity to actually just do that in the sense that the entire Warhammer 40k setting is, by design, set up so that you have to do Ground Battles. If actually people could just ignore that and destroy every planet they didn't like, the entire setting would be unrecognizable. They're prepared with nukes, but I doubt that nukes alone would be entirely enough. As Exterminatus-Happy as the Imperium is, it still fights a ton of ground battles, and there has to be a basic functional reason.
They were expecting an Ork-infested world. Notice how they didn't bring any troopships? They were likely planning on nuking the world and then following up with troops/colony ships to build infrastructure for further pushes into what they expected was Ork territory. They were 100% going to nuke the planet- likely not to the level of outright destroying all life on it, but almost certainly until organized resistance was all nuked.

Meaning a stronger ground force wouldn't have mattered if we couldn't maintain orbital control.

Also, the Imperium puts more value on capturing colonizable worlds than cost to take them. The Neon Protectoeate does not have the near inexhaustible reserves that the Imperium proper has. Thus they'd likely rather wait out a nuclear winter before full colonization rather than spend their valuable forces on every single world.

Plus, planetary campaigns tend to happen when various worlds have significant anti-orbit defenses such as theater void shields to protect against orbital bombardment and anti-orbit laser silos and the like. Slipping forces in to disable those defenses from the ground would be more effective in that case.
 
They were expecting an Ork-infested world. Notice how they didn't bring any troopships? They were likely planning on nuking the world and then following up with troops/colony ships to build infrastructure for further pushes into what they expected was Ork territory. They were 100% going to nuke the planet- likely not to the level of outright destroying all life on it, but almost certainly until organized resistance was all nuked.

Meaning a stronger ground force wouldn't have mattered if we couldn't maintain orbital control.

Also, the Imperium puts more value on capturing colonizable worlds than cost to take them. The Neon Protectoeate does not have the near inexhaustible reserves that the Imperium proper has. Thus they'd likely rather wait out a nuclear winter before full colonization rather than spend their valuable forces on every single world.

Plus, planetary campaigns tend to happen when various worlds have significant anti-orbit defenses such as theater void shields to protect against orbital bombardment and anti-orbit laser silos and the like. Slipping forces in to disable those defenses from the ground would be more effective in that case.

Well yeah, but I will note that now they know that there are worlds that have actual infrastructure that can be stolen/used, so I suspect they might be moderately less nuke-happy from now on.
 
Well yeah, but I will note that now they know that there are worlds that have actual infrastructure that can be stolen/used, so I suspect they might be moderately less nuke-happy from now on.

Even when they understood that, they were still going to nuke us. We caught them before the Kil'drabi dropped the ambush in. We're Hereteks after all, that means everything we have is suspect, so better to nuke it till we glow and colonize the ashes.
 
We don't have enough Choirs to spam them, so we want them to have a higher innate toughness. Doesn't matter if we can build 4 per action if we can only actually field 3 total.

We don't have to build 4 of them tho? We can mix and match designs within size-class for ships as much as we want, we just haven't have a need to. We could build 1 Pathfinder and then 3 of whatever combat destroyers are most needed whenever we needed a new one to go with a free Choir.

And to be honest, we never want these ships to come under fire at all, if they do, we're already in a losing situation, so having them be on a tougher hull that more things can out-accelerate isn't going to save a Pathfinder if something is bothering trying really hard to kill it and has made it past our escorts.

If the Pathfinder is on a max-acceleration destroyer, it can just deny battle indefinitely without even needing to stay with the main fleet, because space is big and you can't fight in space unless both sides agree. On a frigate hull, the Pathfinder would have to stay with the rest of the fleet and resources would have to be dedicated to making sure it is protected.

Worst comes to worst, the ship stays on the edge of the system and jumps a few months of STL travel out and waits for the light from the fighting to show it is safe to return or if it needs to head for friendly space.

The thing is, if we go all in on speed it would be at the expense of defense. And banking on "Nothing will catch us" is not something that works all the time, since even the Eldar whose whole thing is being fast as fuck still get caught, and their ships are likely faster than we could hope.

Honestly, if we're fighting the Eldar any time soon, no matter what hull we put our Pathfinder design in, it's almost certainly going to die. Eldar Destroyers don't fuck around. We should be planning around things we both expect to fight regularly and are within our ballpark to handle.

Eldar ships 'get caught' because they are at ranges for combat. If an Eldar ship never wanted to fight, and thus never got close enough, nothing would be able to catch them, because in space, both sides have to agree to battle in order for battle to happen. A max Acceleration destroyer who starts trying to avoid battle from the moment it enters system, where it is 2-3 light hours away from the nearest enemy, could never be caught by anything with equivalent or lower acceleration, and would massively draw out any chase with something with higher acceleration.
 
Also, on the topic of the Kil'drabi, we need to keep in mind that the battlecolonies will be out of action for at least a turn, if not two. So we need other heavy hitters in case that happens again.
 
We don't know that everything our enemy has is slower than what we can make as max-speed destroyer, do we?

Assuming that, as an Imperial-Alligned state, they are using the standard Imperial Designs, the fastest ship in their roster is the Cobra-class destroyer. According to a quick wiki search, the Cobra has a max acceleration of 7.6 Gravities, a full 0.4 gravities slower than a max-acceleration destroyer we could built.
 
[] Andromeda-Class Pathfinder Ship
-[] Length
- 1.600 Meters (+1 DP)
-[] Width - 350 Meters (+1 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 6.5 Gravities (-1 DP)
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - Unarmed
-[] Equipment - Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Hymns of the Machines (-11 DP)

PURPOSE: A well protected ship with a single purpose, to guide the fleets of the Glimmering Federation to their destination even in the darkest of days. To that end, the Andromeda-class is arguably the most advanced ship in the fleet, bearing some of the most sophisticated computational and vox systems ever emerged from the forges of the Federation, all for the purpose of aiding and abetting a Celestial Choir in their efforts to guide our fleets through the warp with speed matched only by some of the most advanced archaeotech. It possesses exceptional acceleration and manueverability, as well as solid armor and shielding technology to allow it to evade the occasional strike aimed towards it, while keeping pace with its tenders and escorts without delaying them overly much. Whether used to assist a flotilla of Circunius-class or as guides for the Fleet, the Andromeda-class will not falter in its duties.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is "We can't guarantee we'll always be able to play keep-away, so something strong enough to survive the occasional hit, fast enough to evade most threats, and agile enough to stay all but the fastest ships, is probably pretty good." We can refit this down the line when we have some more Research done to give it a bit more flexibility and maybe squeeze a little more speed out, but this'll still be faster than anything but a Cobra in the Imperial arsenal, and a Cobra is famously weak outside of their torpedoes (Which are basically useless against escorts that don't just sail right into them).

As a pleasant note, this should also give us another Frigate DP by my reckoning, as it'll be our fourth Frigate design, and we unlocked a DP in Destroyer at 4 designs. That was what pushed me over the top to make this a frigateweight instead. If the DP budget is the same after all, why not make it something that'll likely survive even a small group of stealthed Destroyers that move in to intercept?

With the bonus DP we should get after this design, +2 from the research project, and likely another 1 or 2 from studying Imperial wrecks, we should be able to do a refit that gives this additional flexibility even with the massive budget cost eaten by Hymns. Certainly, we can get it up to 7 gravities with ease, and maybe have it double as extra troop transport, or some logistical benefits, who knows?
 
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[] Plan: Prepare the Military For Military Conflict
-[] Military Infrastructure x2
-[] [Military] Design A New Voidship Class - Frigate
--[] Andromeda-Class Pathfinder Ship

Seems pretty fitting.
 
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And with that posted up...

[ ] Plan: Aww Shit, here we go again
-[] [General] Develop The Federations'...
--[] Military Industry III
-[] [Military] [Construct] A Warp Ship
--[ ] Libra-class Fleet Carrier

-[ ][Military] Design A New Voidship Class - [Frigate]
--[ ]
Andromeda-class Pathfinder Ship

We achieve Line Ship parity with the known force, which is functionally three Emperor-class Battleships worth of strike craft. We push our MI up another notch, and we get our Pathfinder design rolled out which'll mean we'll be able to begin offensive operations by the end of next turn.

I'd give us good odds of denying them in the Void with this force, as things stand, especially if our Regulars can contest their Skill rating. (Our regulars at least should very much be capable of at least matching 3d6, right @HeroCooky ? It's only our SDF and PDF forces that are just innately suckier than them? All of our efforts to preserve our veterancy over the Ork Campaign should matter, right?)
 
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