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Star Wars General Discussion Thread

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The no attachments idea always as more Buddhist that anything, was this even a full on clear rule? Basically attachments cause suffering because you want keep them by any means necessary. Mind you I've come to believe certain groups of Jedi and Sith basically adhered to a similar exclusion of relationships for the same reason avoiding 'pain' especially since some Sith could see attachments as a weakness, while with the Jedi is to avoid suffering and possibly going down the dark side.

As for the Jedi Order, the issue with the Jedi Order is that basically their tied to Republic politics to a hilt. What the best alternative is who can really say. I've toyed with the idea multiple Jedi splinter groups with one being well the Red Jedi, as Jedi more devoted to the common people than generally protecting the Republic and maybe investigating some incident or another. But the Prequel Jedi basically seemed to be worried this about vague threat from the Dark Side while the Republic seemed to rot within or at least member worlds did. As for the Jedi not ending slavery what should do then, just let it be because it is outside of Republic jurisdiction?

Okay with Dooku, why would he want to go back to a Jedi Order or even a Republic that has simply failed him? The separatists had genuine believers for a reason, and while I'm not sure how genuine it was with Dooku but he had his grievances that it was more than just falling to the Dark Side. While there are some really overblown criticisms of the Jedi, I don't think that means there's no justifiable case for reform. Especially if you want to argue that the Jedi being at times too detached may have left Anakin without a good support network, especially if some Jedi might not understand the average person.
 
BBadolato said:
The no attachments idea always as more Buddhist that anything, was this even a full on clear rule? Basically attachments cause suffering because you want keep them by any means necessary. Mind you I've come to believe certain groups of Jedi and Sith basically adhered to a similar exclusion of relationships for the same reason avoiding 'pain' especially since some Sith could see attachments as a weakness, while with the Jedi is to avoid suffering and possibly going down the dark side.
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The core issue is that the degree of this isn't articulated or dramatised. We're just given a blanket statement that these two types of love are forbidden. We also lack a real demonstration of what Lucas meant by an encouragement to love. For that matter, we see little compassion from the old Jedi; there are remarkably few Pet the Dog moments in the PT a la Rey with BB-8 in the Prequels.
 
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bluntblade said:
If only any of this had been clear from just watching the films. For that matter, I still find it odd that Padme's the one being all "we shouldn't do this" when she's not bound by any rules.
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Padmé might very well be bound by rules though? She's pretty much Anakin's boss, and there might be anti-fraternisation rules. Their secret relationship could be seen as an undisclosed conflict of interest, which could be a scandal big enough to end her career. In RotS she does speak about how the queen might not allow her to continue as a senator when the news about her pregnancy gets out.
 
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IlumMoss said:
Padmé might very well be bound by rules though? She's pretty much Anakin's boss, and their might be anti-fraternisation rules. Their secret relationship could be seen as an undisclosed conflict of interest, which could be a scandal big enough to end her career. In RotS she does speak about how the queen might not allow her to continue as a senator when the news about her pregnancy gets out.
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Maybe, I guess (though again, it wouldn't hurt to actually dramatise that dynamic). It's also entirely possible that the romance arc is just so bloody dull that I take against just about every element.

The arc isn't helped at all by the fact that it comes without any subtext. It's all We Are In Love and It Is Forbidden and How Can I Fight These Feelings That I Feel So Much?
 
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BBadolato said:
As for the Jedi Order, the issue with the Jedi Order is that basically their tied to Republic politics to a hilt. What the best alternative is who can really say. I've toyed with the idea multiple Jedi splinter groups with one being well the Red Jedi, as Jedi more devoted to the common people than generally protecting the Republic and maybe investigating some incident or another. But the Prequel Jedi basically seemed to be worried this about vague threat from the Dark Side while the Republic seemed to rot within or at least member worlds did. As for the Jedi not ending slavery what should do then, just let it be because it is outside of Republic jurisdiction?

Okay with Dooku, why would he want to go back to a Jedi Order or even a Republic that has simply failed him? The separatists had genuine believers for a reason, and while I'm not sure how genuine it was with Dooku but he had his grievances that it was more than just falling to the Dark Side. While there are some really overblown criticisms of the Jedi, I don't think that means there's no justifiable case for reform. Especially if you want to argue that the Jedi being at times too detached may have left Anakin without a good support network, especially if some Jedi might not understand the average person.
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The Jedi of the Prequel era seemed pretty busy just keeping the Republic in semi-functioning order. The intro scroll to AotC even states that due to the Separatists they're pretty much already spread too thin (pre-war). Them being part of the Republic is what gives them the legitimate authority they have, it's why we see them be negotiators in tPM, but it is of course a trade-off. But even beyond that the Republic clearly has no interest in rocking the boat, the Jedi alone aren't really enough to fix the problem of Hutt space.
Neither does fixing corruption seem to be part of the Jedi's jurisdiction/job. Coruscant has a police force, and it's not the Jedi. No-one ever mentions that the Jedi should be trying to fix corrupt senators and it feels like something Padmé could easily have expressed frustration over if it was part of their duties/power.

As for the Anakin not having a support network, I disagree. I think the problem is more that Anakin is not able to accept and reach out for help, than a lack of available support. Yoda makes time for him in RotS when the Jedi are planning for the possible necessity of having to do a coup to re-establish democracy. In AotC Obi-Wan is the one that asks how Anakin has been sleeping and about his dreams, brings up his mother (Anakin is the one that changes the topic to Padmé) and in tcw Obi-Wan reaches out to him or opens up about his own struggles a lot. Anakin is the one that rejects these offers.

bluntblade said:
Maybe, I guess (though again, it wouldn't hurt to actually dramatise that dynamic). It's also entirely possible that the romance arc is just so bloody dull that I take against just about every element.

The arc isn't helped at all by the fact that it comes without any subtext. It's all We Are In Love and It Is Forbidden and How Can I Fight These Feelings That I Feel So Much?
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The romance is awkward, I do agree on that. But I also think it works, because Anakin really is just letting these emotions take him over and a big part of the problem is that he doesn't want to fight his feelings or hold them back, he wants to let them consume him.
 
On the question of whether or not Jedi are allowed to have sex, we can definitively know that at least one Jedi is legally required to have sex: Kid-Adi-Mundi, whose species is endangered and who has his own actual harem.
 
ScottishMongol said:
On the question of whether or not Jedi are allowed to have sex, we can definitively know that at least one Jedi is legally required to have sex: Kid-Adi-Mundi, whose species is endangered and who has his own actual harem.
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I mean, I've read some ancillary materials and this forum is the first place I've ever heard that spoken of.

I'm really limiting my purview to what's expressed within the films, however. Just as if they really wanted me to believe that Kylo hadn't butchered a bunch of his fellow apprentices and led the rest into corruption, it should've been, you know, in Episode IX.
 
ShyPerson said:
Personally I am of the headcanon that republic forces would also include non-clone auxiliary volunteers, not that much material even considers the possibility.

In any case I am now halfway through the Revenge of the Sith novelization. And it is so much better than the movie like it was hyped up to be around here. For instance, people often praise the opera scene as one of the good parts in the movie. I don't think it is, but the book actually builds on earlier events when Anakin and Palprine talk, and Palpatine takes his time to lead Anakin on before he dangles the tale of Darth Plaugious in front of Anakin.

It's additions like that which makes the book a far more compelling version of the story we got in the movie.
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I will forever Stan the novelization
 
I'd be curious to see how a TPM novelisation would try and solve the issues stemming from the lack of a real protagonist
 
bluntblade said:
Does it do much with Boba Fett? Cos there are two particular beats I always thought he should've had in that film (and having been thinking about Phasma's use, I've had him on my mind).
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Not that I remember, no.

Mostly what it brings to the table is an expanded look on Luke's inner struggles through the events of the movie. I also remember it for laying out the basics of Palpatine's rise to power despite being penned a long time before the Prequels ever made it to the screen.
 
Mechasaurian said:
Not that I remember, no.

Mostly what it brings to the table is an expanded look on Luke's inner struggles through the events of the movie. I also remember it for laying out the basics of Palpatine's rise to power despite being penned a long time before the Prequels ever made it to the screen.
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I've heard bits of that take and honestly prefer it to what we got in a lot of ways.

Re Fett, fair enough - he's a minor part overall, but it always bugged me that he wasn't the one to catch Leia and didn't have a decent fight with Luke.
 
bluntblade said:
I've heard bits of that take and honestly prefer it to what we got in a lot of ways.
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What I remember was barebones enough to not really contradict the Prequel take on events. The novelization just states that the Empire was once the Republic, until Palpatine subverted it from within. The details are vague. It's mainly done to establish Palpatine as formidably intelligent, to raise the stakes for Luke confronting him.
 
Mechasaurian said:
What I remember was barebones enough to not really contradict the Prequel take on events. The novelization just states that the Empire was once the Republic, until Palpatine subverted it from within. The details are vague. It's mainly done to establish Palpatine as formidably intelligent, to raise the stakes for Luke confronting him.
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I was thinking about the "Senate was about to impeach Palpatine" thing.
 
Palpatine's rise is mentioned in the novelization of the first and third movies novelizations in the first one in a more general way how he used corrupt corporate and governmental influences to gain power while openly railing against such things while in the second one from return of the jedi his is inner monologue gloating about his manipulations.

The Senate trying to impeach him for trying to make himself emperor and the jedi siding with them as I recall the from the write up lucas first created in 1977 and gave to Star Wars Franchees looking to create products in his universe.
 
Side note: man, the shipping wars have got ugly of late. I really, really don't the Reylo stuff, but I also dislike the way some parts of the FinnRey crowd are carrying on with declaring that Finn "deserved" Rey and hating on Rose into the bargain as a cockblocker. Plus it's spilling into harassment of people who aren't even in that ship.
 
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Love Sith's novel. Probably one of my favorite SW novels and goes great with the Rise of Darth Vader novel. (Which makes sense since its supposed to be a sequel to RotS's novel.)
If I recall the Jedi novel has a brief mention of dying Anakin remembering his wife and the fire from the magma burning him. I was always wanting to know more about that after reading it.
 
bluntblade said:
Having them at least be young adults before they have to decide that a life of service, potentially very dangerous service at that, is what they want.
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  • They aren't obligated to remain Jedi. They're allowed to leave, just like data entry specialists.
  • Normally Jedi don't become Padawans (the earliest stage of actually going out and doing stuff) until they're teenagers (or, presumably equivalent). (See: Ahsoka being considered young for a Padawan at 14 in The Clone Wars, the movie)
  • Before becoming padawans, they're basically just adopted and being raised in an environment that has experience dealing their psychic/magic abilities (see: Baby Yoda's Force choke), isn't prejudiced against them (See: Dooku left to the wolves for being a "Freak"), and will protect them from kidnappers (see: "Children of the Force" in The Clone Wars series).
So it sounds like they already do the thing you're asking them to do.

Mechasaurian said:
Not that I remember, no.

Mostly what it brings to the table is an expanded look on Luke's inner struggles through the events of the movie. I also remember it for laying out the basics of Palpatine's rise to power despite being penned a long time before the Prequels ever made it to the screen.
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Palpatine's rise to power was laid out before Return of the Jedi: the people of the Republic didn't care enough to elect competent officials.

Article:

But eventually the citizens of the Republic "didn't care enough to elect competent officials", says Lucas the historian, and so their government collapsed. A sorcerer, a bad counterpart of Yoda, blocked all opposition and declared himself Emperor
Source: May 19th 1980 Time Magazine


Palpatine's rise was enabled by voters who wanted to be promised easy solutions rather than "trudging up the hill"
 
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