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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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Kirook said:
What if we hold a plebiscite and the regions in question don't vote to be part of Greece and Serbia? They might see that as a betrayal. They might even see holding the plebiscite at all instead of unilaterally awarding them Vojvodina and Thrace to be a betrayal. (Not to mention that if they do get the territory end up deciding to do the ethnic cleansing we've feared, we have no way to stop them or to protect those who voted against annexation.)
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This is simply fearmongering. The vote option literally says that there will be a plebiscite, so we can assume that there will be one, and that neither Serbia or Greece will somehow hate us for giving them what they are literally asking for, which is a plebiscite.

Edit: as to the fairness of the plebiscite, we would pretty obviously have election observers in place? I simply do not believe that @Etranger is going to go "whoops, this option was a trap, the plebiscite is meaningless"
 
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Etranger said:
This is a not-so-subtle indication that the Alliance's intentions toward the League are severe, if not existential, and foreign observers take careful note.
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*Alliance observers, ominously taking notes while glaring at the foreign observers.*
Entente: "...Could you please stop doing that?"
Alliance: "Oh! It's fine when you do it, but it suddenly isn't when someone else does. Convenient."
 
Oh good, Romania has given us the opportunity to smash their military in the field and open the way for a republican revolt at home! How kind of them.
 
spiritualatheist said:
This is simply fearmongering. The vote option literally says that there will be a plebiscite, so we can assume that there will be one, and that neither Serbia or Greece will somehow hate us for giving them what they are literally asking for, which is a plebiscite.

Edit: as to the fairness of the plebiscite, we would pretty obviously have election observers in place? I simply do not believe that @Etranger is going to go "whoops, this option was a trap, the plebiscite is meaningless"
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Oh, I didn't see that in the vote option. I'll withdraw that part of the objection, but I'm still not sure what will happen if the vote doesn't go the way our "allies" want.
 
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I understand voting against letting them join if the vote option was "let Serbia do ethnic cleansing in exchange for military aid" but my reading of it is more that these areas are already majority serb and Greek and want to be part of those countries. I think that this is a backlash against the imperial League arbitrarily drawing borders that suit them in the Balkans.

Now, there is an argument to be made that doing this will strengthen the Balkan monarchies—and it is likely that they'll grow more popular after this. However, I can swallow a bit of ideological compromise with relatively small monarchies in exchange for more forces to smash Austria with.

I also don't think they'll be willing to jump in bed with the Entente—when we win we're going to be right next to them, after all. Pissing off the victorious great power next door in the hope that Britain backs you seems like a dumb gamble to make.
 
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spiritualatheist said:
I also don't think they'll be willing to jump in bed with the Entente—when we win we're going to be right next to them, after all. Pissing off the victorious great power next door in the hope that Britain backs you seems like a dumb gamble to make.
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I think it's reasonable to expect that the Entente will at least try something, strong-arming countries into the fold through debt or something. If the Entente gets them into "it's us or them" situation vis a vis us, the political classes are going to choose Entente over us every time, because that way they preserve their class position.
 
spiritualatheist said:
I also don't think they'll be willing to jump in bed with the Entente—when we win we're going to be right next to them, after all. Pissing off the victorious great power next door in the hope that Britain backs you seems like a dumb gamble to make.
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I disagree for reasons I've repeated previously, but also because I'm for Germany supporting a republican Yugoslavia/Democratic Eastern Federation* that would naturally be in opposition to Serbian irredentism (and vice versa).

But for now, I'm willing to stomach allying with monarchists as a wartime necessity. We'd duke it out with em afterwards.

*DEF - or alternatively the Democratic Oriental Federation - is as old if not older a proposition than Yugoslavism AFAIK.
 
Nevis said:
I think it's reasonable to expect that the Entente will at least try something, strong-arming countries into the fold through debt or something. If the Entente gets them into "it's us or them" situation vis a vis us, the political classes are going to choose Entente over us every time, because that way they preserve their class position.
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Eh, sort of? The Balkans are also treated like colonies and we've made a point of being anticolonial even when the regime in place is less than ideologically palatable (see China, lol). There's also the fact that all of them have to know that they simply can't afford to piss us off too much. Even if the Entente won the ensuing war, all of them would lose.

Obviously if we pushed them too hard they'd flip to the entente, but I do think there's a space there where they might accept help from us as *the* anticolonialist power while trying to resist our poisoned gifts.
 
Regency said:
I disagree for reasons I've repeated previously, but also because I'm for Germany supporting a republican Yugoslavia/Democratic Eastern Federation* that would naturally be in opposition to Serbian irredentism (and vice versa).

But for now, I'm willing to stomach allying with monarchists as a wartime necessity. We'd duke it out with em afterwards.

*DEF - or alternatively the Democratic Oriental Federation - is as old if not older a proposition than Yugoslavism AFAIK.
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Obviously some form of Yugoslavia should be our endgame, but that doesn't mean that all of the Balkans are going to flip instantly at the end of the war.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Eh, sort of? The Balkans are also treated like colonies and we've made a point of being anticolonial even when the regime in place is less than ideologically palatable (see China, lol). There's also the fact that all of them have to know that they simply can't afford to piss us off too much. Even if the Entente won the ensuing war, all of them would lose.

Obviously if we pushed them too hard they'd flip to the entente, but I do think there's a space there where they might accept help from us as *the* anticolonialist power while trying to resist our poisoned gifts.
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don't forget the Ottomans too who have done a bunch of population fuckery before the balkans revolted and started their own population fuckery
 
Regency said:
A little dangerously based for Germany
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'The land is free,' said the young King, 'and thou art no man's slave.'

'In war,' answered the weaver, 'the strong make slaves of the weak, and in peace the rich make slaves of the poor. We must work to live, and they give us such mean wages that we die. We toil for them all day long, and they heap up gold in their coffers, and our children fade away before their time, and the faces of those we love become hard and evil. We tread out the grapes, and another drinks the wine. We sow the corn, and our own board is empty. We have chains, though no eye beholds them; and are slaves, though men call us free.'

~ The Young King
 
Weygand said:
'The land is free,' said the young King, 'and thou art no man's slave.'

'In war,' answered the weaver, 'the strong make slaves of the weak, and in peace the rich make slaves of the poor. We must work to live, and they give us such mean wages that we die. We toil for them all day long, and they heap up gold in their coffers, and our children fade away before their time, and the faces of those we love become hard and evil. We tread out the grapes, and another drinks the wine. We sow the corn, and our own board is empty. We have chains, though no eye beholds them; and are slaves, though men call us free.'

~ The Young King
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This whole story fucks severely.
 
[X] Plan: Advance along the Seas
-[X] Decline
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Zagreb (Purple).
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
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Drifting Eagle said:
[] Case Fuck Russia. Bottom Text.
-[] Decline.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Minsk (Green).
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
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I've come around to the idea that Minsk isn't doable in winter. I think this would be a less dangerous alternative to my first impulse:

[] Case Fuck Russia (gently)
-[] Decline.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.

One issue is that Russia will also be miserable to push through in spring due to the mud. We might want to hit Austria next season.
 
We will also have to choose our targets in Rump Hungary carefully next turn. Spring floods are still going to be a thing in the mountains.
 
[X] Plan: Advance along the Seas
-[X] Decline
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Zagreb (Purple).
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[X] Plan: Case Fuck Russia (gently)
-[X] Decline.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
[X] Case Fuck Russia (gently)
-[X] Decline.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
[X] Plan: Case Fuck Russia (gently)
-[X] Decline.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
[X] Plan: Case Fuck Russia (gently)
-[X] Decline.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[X] Strengthen defensive positions in Austria.
-[X] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
[X] Case Adler
-[X] Decline.
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Kiev (Red).
-[X] Initiate an offensive toward Zagreb (Purple).
-[X] Maintain the Baltic blockade.
-[X] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
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