Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

I'd feel better about that if we hadn't started this war, with a casus belli that's probably a li
we were always at war with Austria comrade. since the beginning of our experiment as a free nation we have been at war with the world. economic, social, political, scientific and cultural battlefields are but a few of the places we have battled the enemy. The charade of their so called peace while people struggle was nothing more than a thin veneer, a facade an illusion . The only difference now is that we've traded the knifes in the dark for rifles and artillery shells. lies and secrets exchanged for scarred fields that once were green. The blood of the innocent might taint our soil, but our pain and sacrifice is coming to an end.
Dont be fooled, we've always been at war, because those reactionaries plot nothing less than the total destruction of our way of life, this war we fight, a war to preserve our existance, a war to defend our right to a free and fair life, to live and to die for what we believe rather than to fullfil an imposed duty from the ones holding our chains. This is the war that was always fought, from the battlefront to the homefront, In schools and factories, in cafes and nurseries. The casus belli was nothing more than an excuse as the name so implies. Peace was never an option. We will fight until the world is free or burn it to the ground before being brought down into bondage.
so say we all
LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC!
 
It's kinda unnerving, just how much of a grim spectacle this must be. Like, by the world's perspective, out of seemingly nowhere from a single silly incident, Germany's spent the better part of half a year butchering every enemy army it faced in a brutal series of ultra-aggressive moves where we've consistently just kept on putting on more pressure and kept up a fast operational tempo.
It's the same as the world felt about the Franco-Prussian War (be prepared for the UK to be absolutely bonkers for the next 50 years), and the war itself is an obvious parallel to the Spanish-American war. Admittedly, the Spanish empire was a rotten porch that had already lost 90% of itself to colonial uprisings, as opposed to a premier land power like Russia, but nonetheless it was shocking how fast land could change hands compared to previous wars.
 
The Gothenburg Conference: 1898
The Gothenburg Conference: 1898

Delegates from the German External Affairs Commission along with Allied envoys have joined representatives of the Swedish government, both from King Oscar and the Swedish and Norwegian parliaments, in the symbolic capital of the Scandinavian Union, Gothenburg. There are dueling delegations each claiming to represent Denmark: on the German side, there are a group of pro-Republican Danish legislators, while opposing them is a party of representatives of King Christian and a junior minister from the British Foreign Office, ostensibly there as an "observer." Notably absent, of course, are representatives of Austria or Russia.

Despite the complex web and simmering dispute of who represents what, the negotiations begin in a general spirit of productivity, as neither side sees any point in prolonging this particular front of the conflict. The longer Scandinavia stays mobilized and interdicted, the more it suffers, and with no particular benefit for doing so.

The senior External Affairs delegate lays out the Republic's negotiating position, and it is...



Regarding Denmark:
[] Denmark shall be an independent state.
EFFECT: +1 Leverage. Denmark shall be allowed to determine its own fate, save for a binding agreement to maintain political and military neutrality.

[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
EFFECT: -2 Leverage. The disposition of Denmark shall be the Alliance's to decide.

[] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
EFFECT: -4 Leverage. As above, but also including the Faroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, and the Danish West Indies.

Regarding Scandinavia:
[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
EFFECT: +1 Leverage. Scandinavia ends its membership in the Imperial League and ceases trade with its members for the duration of the war.

[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
EFFECT: -2 Leverage. As above, and Scandinavia also accepts a binding agreement to maintain political and military neutrality.

[] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
EFFECT: -4 Leverage. As above, and also Scandinavia is dissolved into its constituent realms, Sweden, Norway, and Finland.

Regarding reparations:
[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
EFFECT: +1 Leverage. Scandinavia is not required to pay a monetary indemnity.

[] Scandinavia must pay modest reparations.
EFFECT: -2 Leverage. Scandinavia must pay a reasonable monetary indemnity.

[] Scandinavia must pay severe reparations.
EFFECT: -4 Leverage. Scandinavia must pay a crushing monetary indemnity.



Here's how Leverage works. You start with 4 Leverage, owing to your military position at the start of negotiations. Any proposal above 0 Leverage (+1 or more) will be automatically accepted, with bonus effects to international relations if the Leverage total is positive. Zero or negative Leverage proposals will be subject to potential rejection, counter-proposals, or, if accepted, negative international relations penalties. Any proposal below -2 Leverage (-3 or less) will be automatically rejected. Any bonuses or penalties will be determined by the nature of the winning proposal.

Any position with "As above" includes the terms of the option directly above it, which stacks if that proposal also has an "As above" clause. If Scandinavia is dissolved, its obligations will be inherited proportionally by its successor states. If Denmark is made independent, it will also inherit a portion of any indemnity levied. Unless Scandinavia is dissolved, Finland's status is ambiguous and will have to be resolved in talks with the Russians after the war. If peace is secured, IX Army will be replaced on garrison duties by reservists and thereafter move to the front where they are needed most.

Please construct your proposal in the form of a plan. You may vote for as many plans as you like. I'm looking for a convincing plurality, and if I get an ambiguous result, I'll either do a run-off or flip a coin.

Here's an example proposal:

[] Plan Let's All Get Along
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Let's try a 12-hour moratorium, then 24 hours to vote.
 
Unironically down with this:

[] Plan Let's All Get Along
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[] Long term benefits
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Get Denmark, prevent Scandinavia from entering the Entente and get a little international goodwill so we can make sure the Entente stays out of our business. Very easy pick imo
 
[] Plan: Maintain Goodwill
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
EFFECT: -2 Leverage. The disposition of Denmark shall be the Alliance's to decide.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Alright, so the goals here are twofold. First, we want to turn Denmark into a socialist republic in our mold, and keep the entente out of it's business. Second, we want to as much goodwill stored up with the entente as possible—the more they like us, the less likely they are to interfere when we start dismembering Russia and Austria.

Edit: lol, ninja'ed
 
[] Long term benefits
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Get Denmark, prevent Scandinavia from entering the Entente and get a little international goodwill so we can make sure the Entente stays out of our business. Very easy pick imo
Yeah I was going to propose the same.
 
don't want to force Denmark into the Alliance at gunpoint... but don't want to let Imperial possessions remain as well. Is there an option to make Denmark and the colonies independent?
 
[] First step to global revolution
-[] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia must pay modest reparations.

The most important thing is making sure that denmark becomes a democratic nation in line with communist values, which I think is worth the 4 leverage. For scandinavia withdrawing the league we don't really need much more after we liberate the other imperial memers. Modest reperations is mostly just another use for the leverage points and can help germany recover from the war as it is bearing the bulk of the cost.
 
[] Plan: Diplo Minmax
-[] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[] Plan Danish Sister Republic
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.


We're not interested in an indemnity, because our internal economy is increasingly moving towards being cashless anyway, and we have little to any means at present to meaningfully enforce any control over Denmark's overseas possessions, especially if doing so would upset the British. Instead, let us focus on forcing the Scandinavians to surrender continental Denmark in its entirety and swear to remain completely out of the war for the foreseeable future.
 
I'm also wary of making them neutral, because they should have the opportunity to fall into our camp!
 
[] Long term benefits
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Get Denmark, prevent Scandinavia from entering the Entente and get a little international goodwill so we can make sure the Entente stays out of our business. Very easy pick imo
Simplest, and we aren't giving up anything of worth here.

don't want to force Denmark into the Alliance at gunpoint...
Madame Social-Radical, I am befuddled!
 
[] Plan: Scandinavian Dissolution (2 Leverage)
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

[] Plan: Baltic Gate (1 Leverage)
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

[] Plan: Declawing the Lion (-1 Leverage)
-[] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

I have no interest in indemnity reparations that would simply be passed on to crush the people of Scandinavia. My sole concern is that Scandinavia no longer poses a threat to Allied control of the Baltic Sea, whether that be through German disposition of Denmark or the dissolution and neutrality of the whole of Scandinavia, I care not.

I also want this blasted peace to be accepted quickly so as to knock Scandinavia out of the war, so the final plan isn't exactly one that I'd prefer, but it still does the job.
 
Forcing Denmark to undemocratically join our Alliance is literal imperialism, and you cannot convince me otherwise. As long as they're neutral, I don't care all that much. Dissolving Scandinavia is a nice plus.


edit: seems like Godwinson has already put up my plan idea.
 
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[] Plan: Vae Victis
-[] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
I think people are misreading the neutrality option? Forcing Scandinavia to leave the League ends their participation in the war just fine. The neutrality option is for making sure they don't participate in the next war, whenever that is. Personally I don't like it because frankly I don't see Scandinavia as much of a threat and I look forward to liberating them next time.
 
[] Plan Maximal Anti-Colonialism
-[] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
-[] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

This is my opinion on the best path forwards. Denmark and its colonies to be reconstructed, free from capitalism and colonialism. Scandinavia isolated diplomatically and free for our proxies to begin spreading internal dissent, without the resentment that reparations would bring. And it is only -1 leverage, so it'd be possibly accepted, with consequences - Consequences I am more than willing to accept, for the sake of the colonial possessions that so many plans are disregarding.
 
[] Plan Let's All Get Along
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[] Plan Prison of Nations
- [] Denmark shall be an independent state.
- [] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
- [] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[] Plan Democratic Peace
[] Plan Prison of Nations

[] Plan: Scandinavian Dissolution
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state
-[] Scandinavia must be dissolved
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

+4 Leverage (military situation)
+1 Leverage (Danish independence)
-4 Leverage (Scandinavian dissolution)
+1 Leverage (no indemnity)
+2 Leverage (net => automatic acceptance)

The classic formulation of a democratic peace is "no annexations, no indemnities," and we may concede both as a matter of safety, justice, pragmatism, and principle. The Alliance is in no position to demand occupation of the Danish insular territories, or to defend them against an apoplectic Britain. Nor is it necessary for it to formally determine the Danish constitution - the Danish republicans already have the country and are secured in their position by the Republic's occupying army. As for reparations, Scandinavian forces have not stepped foot upon the Republic's soil and the damage to the Republic's naval assets is both minimal, to soon-to-be obsolete units, and will be offset shortly anyway by the Republic's building program. Dissolving the Swedish realm into its constituent countries will give the Norwegians the chance to eschew monarchy even if the Russians will probably not be so obliging to the Finns - and will sound the tocsin for the fall of the discredited monarchy in Sweden. Then may the House of Bernadotte pay for its crimes before history.

EDIT: this turns out to be the same as Plan "Prison of Nations," so I'll defer to that name.
EDIT EDIT: and actually, Plan: Scandinavian Dissolution predates both.
 
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[] Plan Democratic Peace
-[] Denmark shall be an independent state
-[] Scandinavia must be dissolved
-[] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

+4 Leverage (military situation)
+1 Leverage (Danish independence)
-4 Leverage (Scandinavian dissolution)
+1 Leverage (no indemnity)
+2 Leverage (net => automatic acceptance)

The classic formulation of a democratic peace is "no annexations, no indemnities," and we may concede both as a matter of safety, justice, pragmatism, and principle. The Alliance is in no position to demand occupation of the Danish insular territories, or to defend them against an apoplectic Britain. Nor is it necessary for it to formally determine the Danish constitution - the Danish republicans already have the country and are secured in their position by the Republic's occupying army. As for reparations, Scandinavian forces have not stepped foot upon the Republic's soil and the damage to the Republic's naval assets is both minimal, to soon-to-be obsolete units, and will be offset shortly anyway by the Republic's building program. Dissolving the Swedish realm into its constituent countries will give the Norwegians the chance to eschew monarchy even if the Russians will probably not be so obliging to the Finns - and will sound the tocsin for the fall of the discredited monarchy in Sweden. Then may the House of Bernadotte pay for its crimes before history.

The fact we have Danish republicans as a delegation when we're occupying the country is no guarantee they'll be in control when we're forced to withdraw by a treaty committing to a "neutral" Denmark, which is transparently a British Denmark. In fact, they probably won't be allowed in power at all because of the guarantee of "political neutrality", which means the international status quo, not our kind of politics.
 
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