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Skitterdoc 2077

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I would say that Taylor should be able to do those but currently she can't. Main thing however is that Taylor would need loads of research focus, shard inspiration and the specifc Tinker tools needed. She has the second one down with her work with cyberpunk tools and the last one down with her inheritance so she has the resource for it. Her need however is the direction of understanding to actually start doing them

Conventional understanding of biology and physics shouldn't be applied when it comes to Tinkers even at low brows. Bonesaw casually making a city wide Prion miasma that spread incredibly fast that can cause agnosia and other mental effects are nuts and apparently she had thousands of different kinds of plagues as threats. Along with other stuff like chemical weapons, parasitic and other biological weapons.

Taylor should be able to do that, while it would take longer, as long as she puts the effort to push her Shard at that direction.

Even the likes of perfect cloning of the S9000 with all their powers is considered a "mega project" for her and she needed two years and all the equipment and research of Blasto and the Toybox to do it. "Normal" resurection though could be easier as long as she has the research and work under her

As we find out in the series as long as the cape works with their Shard and the more use they do, said Shard are more likely to open up and expand their capabilities. This goes double for Tinkers
 
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SpiraSpira said:
Keep in mind that her power is a hybrid Thinker power as well. Taylor does have a basically full knowledge of human biology, and medicine, to include genetics that she can consult anytime she wants, as if she had a really advanced medical encyclopedia in her head.

That doesn't mean she understands everything she gets though, and if she doesn't understand it completely but tries to create something anyway, that's when she uses the shard's Tinker help, not just its Thinker help.

To do what the other poster mentioned, she'd have to have a lot of understanding, not just encyclopediac knowledge, of genetics and virology. It might be possible, eventually, but that was one of the specific things I mentioned that her shard wouldn't have the energy to do itself via Tinkering magic (I gave Riley's Agnosia plague as an example.)

So to do that she'd have to hit the books, and experiment a lot, and yes probably have a lot better equipment.
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The thing is that it's not really an energy expenditure problem, and the issue is much more fundamental than that.

Just like a mechanical shard would know, 'This is how physics works', and a programming shard would know, 'This is how to write code and what it does', a biology shard would know, 'This is how to write genetic code and what it does'.

Just like a mechanical shard would instantly and effortlessly answer a question with, 'Use a lever, idiot', and a programming shard would do the same with, 'Use an If:Then statement, idiot', a biology shard would just tell you what lines of genetic code you'd need to do something.

It's not even at the level of power use at that point, literally just the basic shard data connection Taylor is already using.

Now, certainly there is SOME data a shard needs and that Taylor will have to find. For example, if Taylor wants to bypass Cyberpunk anti-disease nanobots, she will need to know how they work, what they're looking for, and how to get around it.

Similarly, if Taylor wants to create an organism, she'd need to know about her current environment to know what conditions to make it suitable for and what immune abilities it will need.

Or if she wants to make an artificial human, she'd need human DNA to see what it is, or a specific human's if it's a clone.

But those issues are pretty much trivial for Taylor to do, so she can make pretty much whatever she wants at home.

Denty said:
I would say that Taylor should be able to do those but currently she can't. Main thing however is that Taylor would need loads of research focus, shard inspiration and the specifc Tinker tools needed. She has the second one down with her work with cyberpunk tools and the last one down with her inheritance so she has the resource for it. Her need however is the direction of understanding to actually start doing them

Conventional understanding of biology and physics shouldn't be applied when it comes to Tinkers even at low brows. Bonesaw casually making a city wide Prion miasma that spread incredibly fast that can cause agnosia and other mental effects are nuts and apparently she had thousands of different kinds of plagues as threats. Along with other stuff like chemical weapons, parasitic and other biological weapons.
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I'm not even talking about anything magical. Only what I could type and save on my computer right now if you told me the code, which I could print later.
 
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The thing is, Cyberpunk is just as over-the-top as Shadowrun, even without supernatural shenanigans. It runs on the rule of cool. It's quite soft on the sci-fi hardness scale. So, discussion on what is and is not possible is moot if one does it from the position of real life biology. Arguing about what should be possible based on setting themes and esthetics is a better option.
 
True Metal Power said:
The thing is, Cyberpunk is just as over-the-top as Shadowrun, even without supernatural shenanigans. It runs on the rule of cool. It's quite soft on the sci-fi hardness scale. So, discussion on what is and is not possible is moot if one does it from the position of real life biology. Arguing about what should be possible based on setting themes and esthetics is a better option.
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Yes, but the fact standard humans survive at all in Cyberpunk outside of zoos means that reality-limited biotech can still make baseline humans completely obsolete, and at a minimum compete with what Cyberpunk can mass produce.

Then on top of that there's the seeming fragility and expense of electronics due to horrendous hardware or software, which a biocomputer, even if it doesn't have the exact same processing performance, could still be engineered to be easily regenerative and failsafe, and so blow open the entire premise of a Cyberpunk setting.

Properly used biotech is an out of context problem to Cyberpunk 2077's society.
 
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Gavinfoxx said:
Hear hear! Ya, I want to see an injection that gives all the benefits of most of the fancy proprietary cybertech without any of the madness drawbacks, is completely unhackable, is trivially easy to print, and is hereditable!
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As an example, like yeah, Adam Smasher with his fancy magitech like anti-grav can slaughter bioengineered soldiers by the dozens, but if those same soldiers are grown literally like weeds, does it matter?

Kiyoshi cybereyes might have impossibly good vision, but if everyone already has eagle eyes with cat night vision and optional echolocation, does it matter?

Gorilla arms(TM) might be able to lift more than literal Gorilla Arms, but does that matter for most tasks?

A nice cyberdeck might have amazing processing power, but if everyone already has integrated biocomputers that are airgapped and hardware locked to NOT fry your brain and stop your heart from a computer virus, is it really worth it?
 
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Academic Guardian said:
A thought occurred to as I was re-reading this fic, how protected are cyberware and bioware systems in this setting from EMP attack? Iirc one of Bonesaw safeguards against Mannequin and enemy tinkers as her spiderbots had portable EMP emitters that can disable him just in case in that case Taylor with the bud probably does have access to this tinkertech weapon and maybe her ace in the hole if the tech base of 2077 is vulnerable to it (it seems to be as I can't see shielding of any sorts and shielding against EMP tends but bulky or have grounding or ridicoulously shiny)
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So, there are a number of ways to make hardware completely immune to an EMP. As you would guess by people no doing so with most consumer electronics, there is a cost. Building shielding into a product ads weight and bulk that just can not be trimmed and tends to cost more as a matter of course so if you want something shielded in the same package footprint, it's going to be less capable. As should be obvious, a package's footprint matters a whole hell of a lot for cybernetics where you are putting things inside of a human body.

I suspect that most implants are actually shielded because having someone just up and die because an EMP went off near them is bad for business but for that shielding to matter they need to have grounding that a ripperdoc would have to install. Otherwise? They probably ground themselves into a person's nerves.

Now, there is probably a pretty easy way to help against such things and that's building a Faraday Cage under your skin with grounding through your shoes. Problem would be that such a thing would mean no in or out going radio signals without creating a gap in said protection but those chinks can have their own protections like fuses and other precautions.
scheud said:
I think people often (way too often, honestly) severely underestimate Bonesaw. For unknown reasons. Despite the fact that she's one of the most powerful and versatile tinkers on Earth Bet. Without any parahuman opposition, Bonesaw would've taken over this Cyberpunk Earth in like a week, at most.
Taylor with her derp-level bud and faulty connection is never going to be anywhere close to Bonesaw's level, no matter how hard she tries. The gap between what we've seen so far from Taylor and OG Bonesaw is simply insurmountable, at least without some sudden major upgrades to her power.
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Honestly, given just how Tinkers work in Worm... Bonesaw is one of the scariest capes because she wasn't just able to be a nightmare, she was able to be a nightmare without a permanent workshop. All of her stuff was mobile and she could set up a place in days.
 
Ryune said:
So, there are a number of ways to make hardware completely immune to an EMP. As you would guess by people no doing so with most consumer electronics, there is a cost. Building shielding into a product ads weight and bulk that just can not be trimmed and tends to cost more as a matter of course so if you want something shielded in the same package footprint, it's going to be less capable. As should be obvious, a package's footprint matters a whole hell of a lot for cybernetics where you are putting things inside of a human body.

I suspect that most implants are actually shielded because having someone just up and die because an EMP went off near them is bad for business but for that shielding to matter they need to have grounding that a ripperdoc would have to install. Otherwise? They probably ground themselves into a person's nerves.

Now, there is probably a pretty easy way to help against such things and that's building a Faraday Cage under your skin with grounding through your shoes. Problem would be that such a thing would mean no in or out going radio signals without creating a gap in said protection but those chinks can have their own protections like fuses and other precautions.

Honestly, given just how Tinkers work in Worm... Bonesaw is one of the scariest capes because she wasn't just able to be a nightmare, she was able to be a nightmare without a permanent workshop. All of her stuff was mobile and she could set up a place in days.
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It's actually disappointing how few Bonesaw!Taylor alt-power fics there are, because Taylor's escalating with biotech would be hilarious and upend society within a month.

This is the only Bonesaw!Taylor fic I know of, actually.
 
Gavinfoxx said:
Hear hear! Ya, I want to see an injection that gives all the benefits of most of the fancy proprietary cybertech without any of the madness drawbacks, is completely unhackable, is trivially easy to print, and is hereditable!
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There is the Sabre Serum from Interface Magazine 1.2 it had pretty good enhancement but it's unstable and the soldiers injected die in about 2-4 years
THE SABRE SERUM

This genetic cocktail is a mixture of gene modifying RNA and other unknown catalysts. He has isolated the serum from his own blood and tissue and recreated it using more advanced chemical techniques of the early 2000's. Since his serum came into it effects over five years, the transformation of his cellular material occurred at a much slower rate. He induces the change in the Saber warriors in as little as six months. Most Sabers if they are not killed in action, usually die in as little as two years or in a many as four. No Saber has lived beyond four years. If they do, they usually suffer from complete neural and mental deterioration, respiratory failure or other vital organ failure. The benefits of the procedure are as follows:

Increased physical endurance. +2 MA
2x muscle mass/bone density, +3 to body
Increase Neural Firing. +2 to reflexes
Improved Antibodies, 2x Healing Rate
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I would love to see what she could do with it
 
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Great chapter, like how no worm bias effected the call sign.
Two TT teams for a Dog rescue is so Night City, you just know that the 4 perps were starving kids or the family of the walker trying to settle up some debts or something.
The spider-bot sounds awesome, though considering how scary the ripper-doc hands are that's got to be one hell of a scary spider.
The neural processor sounds incredibly useful, for everything. I'm guessing mice/rats for materials since birds are like dinosaurs DNA wise (if that would even matter). Biotech are going to be so pleased when they press gang her.
 
Ryune said:
So, there are a number of ways to make hardware completely immune to an EMP. As you would guess by people no doing so with most consumer electronics, there is a cost. Building shielding into a product ads weight and bulk that just can not be trimmed and tends to cost more as a matter of course so if you want something shielded in the same package footprint, it's going to be less capable. As should be obvious, a package's footprint matters a whole hell of a lot for cybernetics where you are putting things inside of a human body.

I suspect that most implants are actually shielded because having someone just up and die because an EMP went off near them is bad for business but for that shielding to matter they need to have grounding that a ripperdoc would have to install. Otherwise? They probably ground themselves into a person's nerves.

Now, there is probably a pretty easy way to help against such things and that's building a Faraday Cage under your skin with grounding through your shoes. Problem would be that such a thing would mean no in or out going radio signals without creating a gap in said protection but those chinks can have their own protections like fuses and other precautions.

Honestly, given just how Tinkers work in Worm... Bonesaw is one of the scariest capes because she wasn't just able to be a nightmare, she was able to be a nightmare without a permanent workshop. All of her stuff was mobile and she could set up a place in days.
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Ehh yes and no EMPs scale to arbitrary levels. There's little practical difference between a processor melting from an EMP and a processor melting because the shielding you added heated and cooked the processor.

It's really about cost benefit tradeoffs and with how everything in 2077 has an antenna there is only so much you can do. In the real world you can use stuff like use plasma antennas which let you turn them non conducive if you had some pre-warning, but it's a surprisingly difficult problem. Plasma antenna - Wikipedia

As far as the story goes it's IMO reasonable to handwave whatever feels right because the setting is already largely running on rule of cool.
 
Aadarm said:
Gloria will find this funny. First day actually on the job as a full hire. Get to flatline a few people and air medivac a purse dog.

Wonder what Wakako wants, scary ba-chan knows everything.
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Okada has an extensive information network comprised of browbeating her sons into talking about this girl they spent so much time with. "Okaasan, it's not like that."

She knows Taylor is discrete, has a ripperdoc setup, and is a good enough medic to work for Trauma Team. Okada will want to talk to Taylor about taking jobs as a Ripperdoc. You need a discrete doc if you want chrome without being added to the cyberpsycho watchlist. Legitimate ripperdocs must report clients to the city.
 
deadlyham said:
Okada has an extensive information network comprised of browbeating her sons into talking about this girl they spent so much time with. "Okaasan, it's not like that."

She knows Taylor is discrete, has a ripperdoc setup, and is a good enough medic to work for Trauma Team. Okada will want to talk to Taylor about taking jobs as a Ripperdoc. You need a discrete doc if you want chrome without being added to the cyberpsycho watchlist. Legitimate ripperdocs must report clients to the city.
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The grandma intelligence network is no joke. I once got busted while she was out of town.
 
Cloak&Dagger said:
It's actually disappointing how few Bonesaw!Taylor alt-power fics there are, because Taylor's escalating with biotech would be hilarious and upend society within a month.

This is the only Bonesaw!Taylor fic I know of, actually.
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I like this one. She starts out with Blasto's power, actually, but eventually gets Rileys power on top of it.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Seed (A Worm AU)

An alternate universe where the Endbringers attack in a few different places and order that...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
 
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scheud said:
Maybe. But compared to someone(Bonesaw) who can take over any city with a cough… well, there's no comparison.


First of all, she is powerful enough to pull that off. We've literally seen her pulling it off in Brockton Bay (The Agnosia Plague). If not for Panacea, it would've been GG WP for everyone in the city.
And good luck trying to find her.
Especially when everyone across the country suddenly has trouble thinking straight because of the infection.
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To be fair that's bonsaw at her height whereas Taytay is still closer than not to the bottom of the tinker escalation ramp. It's basically saying a starter character in an RPG will never become more powerful than this high level end game one.
 
Warer said:
To be fair that's bonsaw at her height whereas Taytay is still closer than not to the bottom of the tinker escalation ramp. It's basically saying a starter character in an RPG will never become more powerful than this high level end game one.
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True, Bonesaw had about 6 or 7 years of near constant vivisections, dissections and biological experiments of all kinds with essentially no limit to her number of experimental subjects and no experiment that was too unethical to conduct. I mean, hundreds of people, maybe a couple of thousand? Depends on how often S9 killed a random small town.
 
OBYtheGRT said:
The spider-bot sounds awesome, though considering how scary the ripper-doc hands are that's got to be one hell of a scary spider.
The neural processor sounds incredibly useful, for everything. I'm guessing mice/rats for materials since birds are like dinosaurs DNA wise (if that would even matter). Biotech are going to be so pleased when they press gang her.
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Given these are presumably based off Riley's spider bots, I think you need to think a little bigger, more intelligent. Less so birds/cats, more like small humans.
 
To add to the EMP debate.

I think it could effect cyberware, just not quite what people think of as a "normal" EMP. Normally, I think people think of an electrical pulse, like from a nuke, which I don't think would work. However, a non-ionizing EMP from something like radar might work.

The body produces electricity naturally, from pacemaker cells in the heart to the electrical charge that neurons and muscles use. The Body naturally produces electromagnetic fields (EMF). Any cyberware would have to take this into account to function.

Additionally, the body is effected constantly by electricity, from static shocks, to the atmosphere itself. Any cyberware would also have to take this into account.

So, it would probably take a large EMP to effect cyberware, which is why that one ripperdoc is worried about nukes blowing out his cyberware, because they produce something like 50,000 volts per meter, but that would kill you anyways. That means an EMP meant for general personal use would have to thread a needle between stopping your heart or frying your brain, and stopping your cyberware.

Unfortunately, people are notoriously finicky with electricity. People have died from a current of 50 mA passing through their heart, causing cardiac arrest. Others have survived multiple lighting strikes. That means there is a huge range in what might or might not kill someone.

This wide range, added to the incredibly wide variety of cyberware and their different tolerances means that any EMP meant for individual use would have to be made to effect one type and brand of cyberware, or an individual person. Which isn't really usable as a weapon.

However, a non-ionizing EMF might work. Strong radar can interfere with electronics and affect people, causing headaches, tiredness, heating them up from the inside, even causing radiation burns. This would be a terrible long term thing to use, but maybe you could set up a radar EMF around a building to disrupt cyberware, you could stop borgs from getting close to your building, or anyone with cyberware really.

I could see a corporation setting specific EM frequencies that would disable their products, too. It would be incredibly easy to exploit though, so I'm not sure how viable that would be. But the idea to disable anyone using certain types of their products would certainly be tempting.
 
Talking of EMPs keep in mind that EMP Grenades are a common non-lethal weapon used by basically everyone, and in space and certain areas on Earth, Bioware is preferred over Cyberware because certain types of radiation can interfere with Cyberware. Full-Borgs and ACPA Pilots can also purchase shoulder mounted Pulse (EMP) weapons for use, a Basilisk class Panzer also carries several grenade launchers with an EMP loadout.

So EMP based weapons are extremely common and are regularly used by gangs, law enforcement, Corps, military etc. And a single EMP Grenade might not put someone down, but they still cause some damage, and eventually they will put them down. So, I imagine Kurosaki simply had himself hardened enough that his EMP wouldn't affect him, but it would most likely mess with the cheaper stuff out on the streets that Maine, David and Kiwi would have. Although Kiwi got fucked because she was connected to the other two.
 
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Jordisk said:
I mean, the ripper in Kabuki doesn't have any chrome either. He, however, is a body builder and outright tells you that he believes chrome interferes with your brain. According to Robert Rainwater (the guy's name), even a single replacement hand will lead to a loss of hand-eye coordination and reduced reflexes. Personally, I think he is full of shit, but whatever.
Still, most of the ripper-docs don't have that much chrome. That thing on Vik Vektor's hand? That is a glove.
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I think that guy has it right. You are after all, placing a mismatched piece in an otherwise fine machine. If only one part is better, then it is more likely to cause problems in the machine/body because it doesn't quite fit. Of course the best way to fix that is to replace the inferior parts with more, better parts! Doesn't that sound like an amazing business model?
 
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