Dreamlord
Norse Pettifogger
- Location
- Hogwarts
Samus Young said it best here: Why Batman Can't Kill People.
TLDR: If Batman killed The Joker, then the writers would have to invent a new character that's just like The Joker, only different.
Ship of Fools: A Taylor Varga Omake (Complete)
- Thread starter Derek M
- Start date
- Crossover
TLDR: If Batman killed The Joker, then the writers would have to invent a new character that's just like The Joker, only different.
zhuull
SB still lying to protect Racists what else is new
Please don't use utterly crap writing, even at the professional level, to excuse this sort of bullshit.
Like I said, he needs a reason to keep dressing up. The films have destroyed any like I've had for Batman.
He's just a idiot. Michael Keaton was the best Batman and after that I do my best to ignore anything to do with the franchise. Its not enough to be a detective which is what I liked when I actually bought the comics.
Before Bruce Wayne, became a ninja, pilot, ATV's driver, 007, Sasuke Uchiha emo, child endangering creep and believing his own press.
The last time Batman was enjoyable.
Batman insane from day 1.
- Location
- The general area. Possibly behind you.
Did... Bruce Wayne have underage Dick in bed?
Something seems amiss with that for some reason...
Something seems amiss with that for some reason...
Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
- Location
- Between The Unknown & The Known
Did... Bruce Wayne have underage Dick in bed?
Something seems amiss with that for some reason...
Check your history... Early 20thC to maybe 1970s, adults sharing beds with other adults, or children, quite common. If you stay somewhere without enough beds... Being rich enough to have one bed per person... And, Dick might have wanted to sleep with Bruce, if the nightmares were that bad...
Of course, about fifty years on from the end of that period...
Arthur Hansen
Author of no Authority.
- Location
- Utah, behind the Zion Curtain.
Parents still do it with their younger kids (age to 8-10 or so) these days. It's not even considered weird.
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
Varga glares at mountain.And you think the Varga can't intimidate a location?
Hmm...
Not convinced. I think that if he wants, he can make a mountain shit itself...
- Location
- Australia
As per the underlining, at first the thought crossed my mind that the Joker had been dumped on Dagobah, just for the irony.
- Location
- Oxnard, CA, USA
He might actually be meta, with his power being a super intellect depending on which details you accept.
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
Luckily for the DC universe, the Jakass Joker is in an entirely different universe altogether. One not terribly well-known for dimensional travel shenanigans. I doubt he'll be coming back any time soon.
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- Location
- US
People. You seem to be forgetting something. Taylor dropped joker off on a different planet in a different UNIVERSE. Doesnt matter if joker baal gets a ship, he is not going back to gotham. And depeneding on which universe it is, getting off the planet is still a big if.
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
- Location
- Here
Unfortunately for the multiverse, the SG1 setting does in fact have devices for jumping between dimensions. One played a major role in the lead up to the season one finale. So, since Ba'al's race stole much of the tech that went into that device, then it stands to reason that, given time and access to the right equipment, he could cobble together a way of getting home; this is made more likely when you consider the DC universe also has multidimensional tech, and while Joker isn't likely to know how to build such a device, he would know about such things and may advise Ba'al to make one.
Plus, we have no idea whether or not such tech exists in the Aliens/Predator universe. No, we haven't seen any such tech, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. After all, why would a Hunting Party bring a gateway to another universe down with them on a hunting expedition?
Point in fact, one could say there is proof they do have such tech; a limited series crossover between Batman and The Predator back in the 1990's. Yes, it is basically non-cannon.... Unless it isn't.........
Plus, we have no idea whether or not such tech exists in the Aliens/Predator universe. No, we haven't seen any such tech, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. After all, why would a Hunting Party bring a gateway to another universe down with them on a hunting expedition?
Point in fact, one could say there is proof they do have such tech; a limited series crossover between Batman and The Predator back in the 1990's. Yes, it is basically non-cannon.... Unless it isn't.........
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Man, Ba'al and the Joker, what a match made in heaven.
Also, the Yautja would fucking love the Joker. I can actually see them deliberately not killing him just because letting him go so they can hunt him again is way more fun than ending the hunt.
And while Ba'al is from the Stargate universe, the only dimensional traveling tech in Stargate is Ancient tech, the Goa'uld never demonstrated any ability to travel between dimensions, and even if they did the Ancient tech requires that the dimension to be traveled to also invent exactly the same technology. And while Goa'uld tech was derived from stolen\salvaged Ancient tech, the Goa'uld themselves never really understood most of what they found. IIRC canonically like 99% of the Goa'uld tech-base was the product of one genius Goa'uld who reverse-engineered a bunch of Ancient stuff and then got dead, with Goa'uld technology then basically stagnating for thousands of years until Anubis showed up with his stolen Ancient knowledge.
So the odds of either of them ever coming back are pretty minuscule, they are however quite likely to terrorize the AvP universe for awhile, but that universe is a hellhole so no-one will care.
e:
Yautja1: What are you doing with that prey?
Yautja2: Catch and release, I am fixing it so that I can let it go and hunt it again.
Yautja1: But why would you do such a thing?
Yautja2: Come with me on my next hunt and I will show you.
[Some Time Later]
Yautja1: What the?! Where the hell did it get high explosives from? And how did it hijack that shuttle anyway!?
Yautja2: I know right! Every time I think I've figured it out, it does something ridiculous!
Yautja1: THIS IS AWESOME!!
Also, the Yautja would fucking love the Joker. I can actually see them deliberately not killing him just because letting him go so they can hunt him again is way more fun than ending the hunt.
He's not in the Stargate universe, he's in the Aliens vs Predator universe, as is Ba'al. No dimensional travelling technology to be found there, just fucktons of Yautja, more fucktons of Xenomorphs and a handful of grizzled Space Marines who keep getting in way over their heads.
And while Ba'al is from the Stargate universe, the only dimensional traveling tech in Stargate is Ancient tech, the Goa'uld never demonstrated any ability to travel between dimensions, and even if they did the Ancient tech requires that the dimension to be traveled to also invent exactly the same technology. And while Goa'uld tech was derived from stolen\salvaged Ancient tech, the Goa'uld themselves never really understood most of what they found. IIRC canonically like 99% of the Goa'uld tech-base was the product of one genius Goa'uld who reverse-engineered a bunch of Ancient stuff and then got dead, with Goa'uld technology then basically stagnating for thousands of years until Anubis showed up with his stolen Ancient knowledge.
So the odds of either of them ever coming back are pretty minuscule, they are however quite likely to terrorize the AvP universe for awhile, but that universe is a hellhole so no-one will care.
e:
Yautja1: What are you doing with that prey?
Yautja2: Catch and release, I am fixing it so that I can let it go and hunt it again.
Yautja1: But why would you do such a thing?
Yautja2: Come with me on my next hunt and I will show you.
[Some Time Later]
Yautja1: What the?! Where the hell did it get high explosives from? And how did it hijack that shuttle anyway!?
Yautja2: I know right! Every time I think I've figured it out, it does something ridiculous!
Yautja1: THIS IS AWESOME!!
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- Location
- Here
.... Plus, as I mentioned before, in three Dark Horse/DC Comic limited series, Batman. Since in this setting the two universes are distinct and separate, it stands to reason that either the Yautja exist in both, OR the Yautja have the ability to travel to other universes to hunt..... and know how to find the DC universe.
So, it is at least possible that The Joker can get back.
Now, my question is this: if The Joker is in fact a Curse upon Gotham City, does that mean over time Joker will possess Ba'al? That is to say, will the System Lord become The Joker in mind as well as in body?
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
Saurial's gonna be absolutely pissed at Batman when and if that happens. Then she's gonna obliterate the fucker right in front of him and her eyes will dare him to say anything about it.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
You say that like Ba'al isn't already the Stargate universe's Joker in everything but name, and wearing a nice suit.
I'd say it's also more likely that the Yautja exist in the DC verse as well, given that I think there are actually a few references to them here and there in various DC comics.
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- Location
- Here
Oh, please. Ba'al was a late addition who's greatest claim to fame was his usage of cloned body doubles and ability to survive; he was the cockroach of SG1. He was a rational villain who either stuck to the background or was the face of a bigger bad. Yes, he ordered people to be killed, and even killed some directly, but it likely took decades if not centuries to break four digits for the number of people he's killed directly.
Joker, on the other hand, is bog-nuts insane and so deadly and unpredictable even the parahuman villains are terrified of him. He's the boogeyman of the DC universe, with a four digit body count just from his own direct actions after only a decade or two in universe.
If I were to chose a DC character Ba'al is like, I would think in terms of Ra's al Ghul or Vandal Savage; smart, long term planners that manipulate things from behind the scenes more then they act directly. Not one of the madmen from Gotham City.
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- Location
- Russia
Especially since Ba'al is explicitly sane, being about the only Goa'uld outside of the Tok'ra that hasn't deluded himself into thinking he's a legit god.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
- Location
- The Internet
Since Joker is a curse on Gotham, it's quite possible that taking the Joker to a different universe wont even work. Within a few weeks or months a new Joker will turn up in Gotham, much to everyone's annoyance.
- Location
- Maryland
Let me say that I appreciate how much interest and debate that little omake generated. When it occurred to me, I knew I had to put it out there to see the reaction. Here are my two cents on the whole thing:
1) Saurial didn't really make a mistake here. She was just going to take Joker somewhere out of sight of a bunch of orphaned kids and pump him full of neurotoxin. Batman showed up before that happened and badgered her into letting him live. Bats can't really force the Family to do anything, but Bruce Wayne can be a huge pain in the ass for all sorts of other things that they're trying to accomplish there, and his superpower is basically, "prepare for any conceivable circumstance." Dumping Joker on a Yautja hunting preserve just kind of barely preserves her end of the bargain.
2) Joker was dumped, without any gear, on a Yautja preserve in another universe. The chance of him getting out of there on his own is basically zero. His only scientific skills appear to be in chemistry, and while I wouldn't put it past him to survive far longer than anybody might expect, he's much more effective in an urban setting. The fact that he is so innately cunning is a key reason why Saurial can argue she kept her end of the bargain.
3) Ba'al is severely under rated in my opinion. He was never the "Hulk Smash" kind of Goa'uld, leaving that to cretins like Apophis and Sokar. He is the guy that figured out how to use clones to get around the annoying Tau'ri ability to ferret out plots. He is the guy who used astronomy, computing, and a Stargate to create a freaking time machine, and almost pulled it off if he hadn't over-estimated the reasonableness of his fellow Goa'uld. (He even appointed Teal'c as his First Prime in that alternate timeline, knowing that the dude was hella competent and would be happy to not have to work for a nutjob like Apophis.) He worked with the Tok'ra to figure out how to make the Ancient "kill everything" machine work on the replicators. He even appreciates how comfortable living as a 1%er on Earth is, and had no desire to destroy it -- just to conquer it (he is still a Goa'uld). He's evil as hell, but far more reasonable than most Goa'uld, and astute in a strategic, scientific and social sense.
So...take an insane genius who is smart enough to realize he's being possessed, and to use that as an advantage rather than get crushed by it. Give him a possessor who knows about Ancient tech and is used to thinking outside the box from a Goa'uld perspective. If I were to write a sequel, I can see that combination serving as a primary antagonist.
EDIT: Keep in mind that the Family have dumped quite a few Goa'uld on the Yautja, and they have learned to keep well away from Family landings until the ship is out of sight -- and then a little longer for safe measure.
Also keep in mind that Joker is pretty much a Goa'uld in human form. His worst incarnations in media are every bit as monstrous as the worst serial killers in human history.
1) Saurial didn't really make a mistake here. She was just going to take Joker somewhere out of sight of a bunch of orphaned kids and pump him full of neurotoxin. Batman showed up before that happened and badgered her into letting him live. Bats can't really force the Family to do anything, but Bruce Wayne can be a huge pain in the ass for all sorts of other things that they're trying to accomplish there, and his superpower is basically, "prepare for any conceivable circumstance." Dumping Joker on a Yautja hunting preserve just kind of barely preserves her end of the bargain.
2) Joker was dumped, without any gear, on a Yautja preserve in another universe. The chance of him getting out of there on his own is basically zero. His only scientific skills appear to be in chemistry, and while I wouldn't put it past him to survive far longer than anybody might expect, he's much more effective in an urban setting. The fact that he is so innately cunning is a key reason why Saurial can argue she kept her end of the bargain.
3) Ba'al is severely under rated in my opinion. He was never the "Hulk Smash" kind of Goa'uld, leaving that to cretins like Apophis and Sokar. He is the guy that figured out how to use clones to get around the annoying Tau'ri ability to ferret out plots. He is the guy who used astronomy, computing, and a Stargate to create a freaking time machine, and almost pulled it off if he hadn't over-estimated the reasonableness of his fellow Goa'uld. (He even appointed Teal'c as his First Prime in that alternate timeline, knowing that the dude was hella competent and would be happy to not have to work for a nutjob like Apophis.) He worked with the Tok'ra to figure out how to make the Ancient "kill everything" machine work on the replicators. He even appreciates how comfortable living as a 1%er on Earth is, and had no desire to destroy it -- just to conquer it (he is still a Goa'uld). He's evil as hell, but far more reasonable than most Goa'uld, and astute in a strategic, scientific and social sense.
So...take an insane genius who is smart enough to realize he's being possessed, and to use that as an advantage rather than get crushed by it. Give him a possessor who knows about Ancient tech and is used to thinking outside the box from a Goa'uld perspective. If I were to write a sequel, I can see that combination serving as a primary antagonist.
EDIT: Keep in mind that the Family have dumped quite a few Goa'uld on the Yautja, and they have learned to keep well away from Family landings until the ship is out of sight -- and then a little longer for safe measure.
Also keep in mind that Joker is pretty much a Goa'uld in human form. His worst incarnations in media are every bit as monstrous as the worst serial killers in human history.
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- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
I, personally, greatly look forward to anymore snippets/canon containing Ba'oker (Jok'al? ... sounds kinda kryptonian, lol).
Also, after reading that bit about Joker being a curse that possesses people... Anyone else wondering what would happen if Joker got hit by Rule Breaker?
*edit- Though I do have to wonder... Is Ba'al possessing Joker... or is Joker possessing Ba'al?
Also, after reading that bit about Joker being a curse that possesses people... Anyone else wondering what would happen if Joker got hit by Rule Breaker?
*edit- Though I do have to wonder... Is Ba'al possessing Joker... or is Joker possessing Ba'al?
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- Location
- Maryland
Ha! In business and politics, you don't have to break cover to cause problems. I can think of a thousand different ways Bruce could subtly sabotage things for perfectly plausible and even sensible reasons. Laws, regulations, and business processes are so complicated that there are entire professions in the modern world designed to help people navigate them in an optimal fashion. Deliberate obstructionism is easy. Just ask any bureaucrat who got pissed off at an obnoxious supplicant.
As for trust...Batman doesn't trust anybody, but he has sources that he considers more believable than others. Olsen counts. Keep in mind that this Jimmy Olsen is not the fresh-faced awkward teen of some media, but a Pulitzer-prize winning photojournalist in his own right. In many circles in this universe, he's every bit as respected as Lois Lane and Clark Kent. Jimmy, in turn, does trust Saurial based on past experience with her.
- Location
- Maryland
- Location
- The general area. Possibly behind you.
I have to admit to a slight liking for Ba'al. Yes, he was an evil bastard, but he had style and a sense of humor. Unlike basically all the Goa'uld and most of the Tokra.
And I would also suggest that neither Taylor or the Varga are foolish. It's very possible that there is a method of tracking the Joker left behind, just in case. The Family, after all, tends to think ahead and prepare for whatever might happen in plenty of time...
Should it become necessary, I doubt she'd have much trouble turning up in his closet and dealing with the problem he presented in a much more permanent manner.
That said, she should really have dropped him into a black hole and closed it off behind him...
Bruce Wayne himself is basically a high-functioning sociopath. The key thing is that he knows this, and works very very hard to stay (more or less) on the side of 'good.' Mostly successfully, but he does have his blind spots and faults as does anyone.
And I would also suggest that neither Taylor or the Varga are foolish. It's very possible that there is a method of tracking the Joker left behind, just in case. The Family, after all, tends to think ahead and prepare for whatever might happen in plenty of time...
Should it become necessary, I doubt she'd have much trouble turning up in his closet and dealing with the problem he presented in a much more permanent manner.
That said, she should really have dropped him into a black hole and closed it off behind him...
Bruce Wayne himself is basically a high-functioning sociopath. The key thing is that he knows this, and works very very hard to stay (more or less) on the side of 'good.' Mostly successfully, but he does have his blind spots and faults as does anyone.