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Seeing Red [Naruto]

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Here's the thing, are we sure these Invaders are at the limits of their supply chain? Armies live and breathe by logistics, and so we can assume this attack is the result of months of build-up and transportation, but if they launched a major invasion of the Elemental Nations without any plans to further resupply then we shouldn't have any cause for concern because they are obviously incompetent.

It's most likely that they certainly aren't expecting any immediate push back from the ENs because they only attacked a minor nation of little worth or importance for the rest of the continent, but they should have enough to settle in and fight against any probing attacks. Now if, say one or two Ninja villages like Konoha and Mist, team-up to drive them off or engage in a concentrated warfare I suspect the Invaders will find themselves encountering the supply-line difficulties encountered by any force attacking across an ocean.

For the vote, Sage mode and better armor. These new guys have a lot of shock and awe tactics and heavy firepower, so being able to tank just a little bit extra damage might be enough to survive long enough for a ninja's superior offensive abilities to be effective.

[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
[X] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
 
[x] The Chakra Railgun. This could be adapted to a simpler jutsu formula given Hisana's ability to convert lightning-natured chakra, or even to a jutsu.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

The Elemental Nations are facing an attack. Invent weapons and defenses that can be used by everyone, leveraged against this outside foe.
 
[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.

[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

Hisana nearly died. We need defenses capable of blocking attacks launched from farther than she can perceive, and move faster than she can react.

Tbh we need a way to make the sharingan detect all angles simultaneously

Also I think Hisana's stamina is lacking. She's more likely to die from exhaustion and attrition than any straightforward combat.
 
Akasha said:
The thing that many of the "industrialisation and guns fuck yeah" authors and SI's don't get is that modern military triumphs in a purely physical setting. Our Samurai were, at their core, well-trained and well-armoured melee combatant humans. Nothing more or less. When guns showed up, their destruction became inevitable. Europe went similarly. Heavily armoured knights and cavalry became far too expensive and ineffective once firearms and other technology became widespread. Sure, there was still some cavalry in WW1, but that didn't last long, and it generally didn't end well for them.

The Elemental Nations are not a physical setting. Creating an army of gunmen, missile launcher crews and a fleet of bombers does not quite work the same way here. The addition of Chakra technology can help a bit, but nowhere near enough. This is a world where quality trumps quantity. Madara is an obvious example, but far from the only one. These railguns and missiles are not going to work on anyone who isn't an average Chuunin, and a single S-class Ninja who doesn't stand still or gives everyone a free shot would decimate this army, erasing all of the resources expended on its creation.

In this setting, the Battle of Nagashino would have a very different outcome. Even without the really exotic bullshit that can be pulled with Chakra, like space-time manipulation and Edo Tensei.

Also, we already have several stacked techniques that make us more durable. Sasuke, Kakashi and others don't even have one. We need to stop turtling and Go Even Further Beyond.
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SurpriseMe said:
Thinking about the fight a little more, we might want to work on creating some sort of "flare" technique or improving stealth. I'm not entirely sure how the missile locked onto Hisana, but being able to create decoys to draw future missile fire away from us (especially if the missile decoy technique can be taught to others) would be super useful. However, that would likely require learning how exactly the missile locked on, which means getting our hands on a targeting array which is likely kept deep behind enemy lines.

Other larger developments in response could be finding a weakness in their infantry protection charkra barriers--if they use one model for those shields and they have an exploitable weakness that could be pivotal if exploited in a major battle. That does have the same issue of needing one intact to study.

An alternative possibility would be large scale genjutsu use. If the Americans follow the path of other "solider vs warrior" societies, then they'll likely be exploiting the lower training time required for each individual. Using things with "you must be this skilled to break free" counters that in a way that didn't exist in history.
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Alright let's start with:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCCpjuQcESo&t=403s


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gWLMIZ_pjI&t=744s

Two experts on medieval combat talking about how knights used guns.

Guns were very much used by knights and other types of warriors when they showed up. People are not stupid and they adapt.

The problem with the "soldier vs warrior" mindset on industrialization is that it leaves out two things:

- Quality always trumped quantity because quality is a force multiplier so the better the quality of a military person the more people it takes to bury them in bodies until they hit the level of someone like Simo Hayha who can keep going until the enemy gets lucky. Also not understanding what makes quality in the first place since bowmen were not replaced with pistols and rifles and instead were replaced with artillerymen.

- It's not "soldier vs warrior", it's "soldier vs warrior vs sentry". Usually. There's also the rogues and the orb holders, but Russia is right now demonstrating why the former shouldn't ever be used in a war and the latter is almost never used in wartime because it takes too much time to train and then set them up for not really any good gain. Though in Naruto the Sage Mode and Sage State count as orb holders since they literally connect their users to the land around them. The Maginot Line would have worked a lot better if it's hardened fortifications could run.

Soldiers were a thing back in medieval times and were called levies. Even today the warrior mindset is maintained among the COs of an army while the grunts and the NCOs are the soldiers of a military. People kind of forget that when talking about how industrialization changed warfare.

Sentries on the other hand are a bit harder to explain since they don't usually show up on battlefields and instead come after to fix what the battle broke. The modern day version of these people are your deminers, refugee suppliers, emergency workers, ect. When these sort of people decide for whatever reason to go into combat they tend to have an information and imagination advantage because they can comprehend the warrior and the soldier and are usually not understood by either of the latter two. This results in fighters like a combat medic or a kite or a fieldsman or a ranger back when rangers were also border/gamekeepers.

Ninja in real life already were in the sentry position and were looking for ways out of it so they could settle and become parts of regular society as sentry position were and remain denigrated in real life. Here they still occupy the sentry position, but have punch magic to keep them going as a society apart form the rest of society since their Chakra mastery earns them respect.

Whoever this isekai faction is they think they are in their own 1632/Ring of Fire and they are instead about to relive the worst parts of colonialism in both directions.

And then there is of course Boruto and it's stories that deal with industrialization failures when using Chakra. So it's not a question of if the invaders will lose this fight, it's question of how much will victory cost and who will use this war to their advantage.
 
[x] Analyze the sealing tech recovered from the Camo Cloaks and reverse engineer...

[x] The Chakra Railgun. This could be adapted to a simpler jutsu formula given Hisana's ability to convert lightning-natured chakra, or even to a jutsu.

[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
 
[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
I'm weakly against Iaido - assuming I'm not the only active Omake writer here - because it's actually (barely) within reach for Omake boosts. Other than that, everything seems decent. The top two current votes are well worthwhile - one gamechanger for Hisana and one for Konoha.

[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

Edit: Also, is it just me, or did that mission end prematurely? Was this supposed to last longer?
 
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[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.

[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.

[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
Tekomandor said:
the Americans (judging by the flag)
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I refuse to call them that. They're running around with mechs and shields. They're more like what would happen if GDI went bad.
Tekomandor said:
Something extended down from it, attached by a cord, into the water. Another two of them were spread out in what was clearly a search pattern.
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They're not idiots, I'll certainly give them that. And I'm shocked they're using chemical rockets, but the way a Ninja can't track it because it and the launcher doesn't use chakra? If intentional, that's clever. Makes me very damn curious how they're locking on to Hisana though. Their electronics must blow the Elemental Nation's out of the water.
LightLan said:
That might be one of the very first look at a highish-level ninja they got.
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They had at least one A ranked Ninja on that unit in The Land of Tea. They're a full sized nation with a full sized invasion force. They definitely have an S rank or two somewhere. Hell, the S ranker might be the one building all this shit.

As far as threats goes, these guys are very credible. I suspect they're going to be settling in for at least a year or two. Can't know how the occupation will be handled, but I can't say they seem interested in playing nice. It's going to suck for a while if you're living in the Land of Sea.

Plus, all this stuff shows their sealing is just as advanced as their technology. We know they were hunting for Naruto, or more accurately the Nine Tails. Given their inclination for mass production, I'm taking bets they want the Tailed Beasts as something like reactors, something to fuel their chakra tech


[X] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
[X] Have a set of existing Uchiha chakra metal armour fitted to her and learn Earth Release chakra flow.

Doubling down on armor so we get the most use out of it, while learning more about the new kids on the block.
 
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[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.

[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu
 
[x] Work on her Iaido


[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
 
[x] The Chakra Railgun. This could be adapted to a simpler jutsu formula given Hisana's ability to convert lightning-natured chakra, or even to a jutsu.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
[x] Have a set of existing Uchiha chakra metal armour fitted to her and learn Earth Release chakra flow.
 
[X] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
[X] Have a set of existing Uchiha chakra metal armour fitted to her and learn Earth Release chakra flow.

Build and cash in on the sealing work we did last turn. It's high time we stopped being so fragile.
 
Gnarker said:
It's high time we stopped being so fragile.
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Its a bit of an odd line to walk, because Hisana's offence does greatly outweigh her defense- but she still has more defense than the vast majority of ninja- even of ninja in the same weight class as her.

Ninja fights are very much games of rocket tag, most of the time- ninja with significant defensive techniques are rare, and durability doesn't really 'scale' in this setting. Even many S-rank ninja can still be threatened by regular kunai. They'll be able to dodge, or deflect, or prevent them from being thrown to begin with- but if someone manages to stick a knife in their throat they're still probably going to die. The knife isn't going to shatter on contact, or fail to penetrate, unless they have a specific technique for that.

(And I do want to emphasize that last line, because otherwise someone's gonna start listing out exceptions to me- I know there's ninja with their own defensive techniques. I'm just saying that there's also plenty without any real durability enhancement, and that the 'baseline' durability doesn't really increase with power like it does in, say, Bleach.)

So the usual first, second, and third line of defense is 'don't get hit', which Hisana is quite good at, and then there are no other lines of defense.

So Hisana, with her Reactive Chakra Armor and the personal version of the barrier technique and (soon) the results from her chakra armor research, is actually kinda a tank by ninja standards- despite still being a glass cannon by the standards of most settings.

Which isn't to say we shouldn't make her harder to hurt- Hisana has the capability and opportunity to become quite durable and its good to take advantage of that- I just want to put her 'fragility' in context. That by even the standards of her weight class (A-rank), she's ahead of the curve on durability- especially when you take into account her medical skills.

We also haven't actually yet seen the results of the last durability option we picked, which should be coming to fruition soon.

Tekomandor said:
Not yet. It'll take a while for things to actually get made, but you should have some stuff after this mission. Hisana's intent is to acquire a set of chakra metal armour and apply this methodology to it, but better, along with a chakra metal mesh clothing layer under that.
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[x] The Chakra Railgun. This could be adapted to a simpler jutsu formula given Hisana's ability to convert lightning-natured chakra, or even to a jutsu.

[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

I'm voting for these now more so we understand better what our enemies use so we can then find a way to defeat it than any immediate benefit to Hisana. This was too unpleasant a surprise, we need more information on their techniques and equipment.

I don't actually remember if the Insectoid Armour was from the Camo Cloaks, but even if it wasn't, we need to reinforce the durability of Konoha forces as quickly as possible.
 
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[X]The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

[X] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
 
Tekomandor said:
Quickly, she signed for the rest of the team to head and that she'd meet back up with them at the rendezvous point on land.
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@Tekomandor: 'the rest of the team to head' - to head where?


[x] The Chakra Railgun. This could be adapted to a simpler jutsu formula given Hisana's ability to convert lightning-natured chakra, or even to a jutsu.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.

Industrialized warfare is coming to the Elemental Nations, and no matter how powerful Hisana gets, she can only ever be in one place at a time (at least on a strategic level; shadow clones allow her to be in quite a lot of places at once on a tactical level). It is now just as important to build up the power of Konoha's forces as a whole as it is to build up Hisana personally. These two options offer the best chance of doing that, both because they might lead to mass-distributable gear like our last sealing project did and because a detailed analysis of our enemy's gear is valuable intel.
 
[X] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
[X] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
I do hope working on the armor does give us something the rest of Konoha can use, or apply to a new armor system. The mesh and seal are great, but they feel pretty low end compared to proper chakra armor. The way it reads, feels more like something to improve a different seal, or just come up with something new all together.

Then again, Konoha and The Land of Fire have strong relations with the Land of Snow. I wonder if just buying Snow Armor is on the table for them?

I can definitely see the value in upping Hisana's reserves for Sage Mode preparations. The more she can reverse engineer the Camo's seals, the higher her own strategic value rises. If the Camo's are set on fighting the Elemental Nations, anyone who's figuring out how their stuff works is someone they want dead. Hisana making herself stronger is helping Konoha by keeping her knowledge intact, and passing along her insights into their stuff.

Right now we can only work with armor and weapons we got off some dead guys. And looking at this invasion, it clearly wasn't even the good stuff. Image later, if we can steal one of their flying machines or walkers. That's the kinda stuff that would change the world. And Hisana would need a solid foundation in their sealing, and technology, to figure it out.
 
Iridesce said:
With all the walkers and being a possibly militaristic conquering empire I was actually getting star wars galactic empire vibes.
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GDI is based on the Star Wars Galactic Empire. People just mostly ignore that part when writing about it. More importantly for this thread the Star Wars Galactic Empire is itself based on the USA of the 60s and 70s at the height of it's Cold War mentality which is what we might be dealing with here.
 
[x] Knowing that if she wants to be a Sage, she'll need enormous reserves of physical and mental energy, Hisana works on something better than a standard resistance seal for physical training.
[x] The Insectoid Armour. This armour uses chakra to reinforce the armour, rather than the shield projected by chakra armour. Its technique could be applied to a personal seal, or to nintaijutsu.
 
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