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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Going all out means a dedicated Monumental Item production facility, not just Monumental Gronti. Gotta keep that in mind.
Just out of interest, what Monumental items would we make? I can only think of Gronti and buildings, and we actually have to double our effort to lug buildings back if we go for extra over just the Gronti facility since nothing else can just walk back to civilisation.
 
what potential monumental items even are there?

are we gonna make a mountain that flies some time down the line?
Maraz would probably count.
Presenting for the Thread's consideration, a project useful for both our current Fimir woes and extending outward, though I would not delay the capstone dragronti for it at the moment at the least. I would say the main component of Maraz-Dreugi Bar would be enough for enough to count as completed in my mind, very similar to my T3ish Gronti Project in that regards, just blown up and expanded thanks to KKR.

Maraz-Dreugi Bar:

The Gate Splitter

A great monument of the hardest stone, forged in emulation of a noble, brolic Thane of Kraka Drak, intended to break the mightiest of fortresses so that a situation such as the earliest campaigns against the Fimir, where so much was pinned on the presence of Sven Baragmaker and his mighty war machines, do not repeat themselves. Standing 25 meters tall, wielding a mallet and clad in pure gromril armor it is also capable of engaging with the mightiest of foes and fighting them, beating them.

Runes:

Master Rune of Awakening: Given an Ancient Greedy Troll's Heart, to take in energy, vigor, power, make it hasty, make it strong and able and resilient in the face of all manner of foes.

Rune of Might: Given an Elder Stonehorn's Horn, so that it's thews are strong and mighty and its blows, whether with its massive hammer or its bare hands, can rip asunder solid stone

Rune of Ram: Given Magma Wyrm Blood for power, for strength, ever more power and strength, until nothing can stand against its blows, its strikes, its rage, the heat coursing within it like the heat of a dragon's heart.

All together? The thing will move with force and power and might, destroying and battling and turning aside anything that gets in its way, tearing apart enemy fortresses like so much paper and battling even their mightiest monsters to an easy standstill based on mere strength of arm alone. Crushing, smashing, and breaking just about anything short of another Karak or similarly reinforced position open like an egg, even as it

The project could be considered complete at this point, presumably armed with a number of Rares similar to the Maiden and the Miner, however a number of accoutrements to increase its potency could be created in order to either solve its weaknesses or else to further increase its strength. They are, in order of importance in my mind:

Malokak Skodrengi:

Malicious Cold Killer


The biggest impediment to Maraz-Dreugi Bar is haste, speed, range, avoidance in general. Quick, powerful opponents swooping in for mighty blows, doing sufficient damage and then escaping; a lesser, but still at least theoretically possible threat, would be ranged attacks in general, though it's hard to imagine who could actually present sufficient force to destroy it. To avoid this, armor, mighty armor, Pure Gromril scales lacquered a bright cyan ( shall be filigreed with the finest of gold depicting the long, storied history of Kraka Drak, in particular the striking out of many, many Grudges, from the death of the Greedy One so many centuries ago, to the slaying of Haruzrildrakk, and many other woeful foes aside defeated and slain by mighty Dwarf hands, a testament to their long history...and the cold surety of their vengeance, with their final deaths instead inscribed on massive scales of precious stone, diamond, rubies and more beside shall be forged, and it shall be inscribed as such:

Master Rune of Blizzards: Given the blood of an Elder Frost Wyrm, bright ice, whipping snow, howling winds will slap away enemy projectiles, sap their strength, and slow them, leaving them vulnerable to attack by Maraz, rather than running away.

Rune of Frost: Given an Elder Thundertusk Heart (T4), allies shall strike the foe with a portion of a blizzard itself, split from the very heart of a thing of the blizzard itself further slowing, belaying, trapping anything within range, keeping it vulnerable to Maraz.

Rune of Snow: The blizzard shall become larger, mightier, more potent and more terrible as Elder Thundertusk Blood quenches it, feeds the Rune, doubling down the already extant sapping, slowing strength of the Master Rune of Blizzards, forcing enemies to move by inches if at all, leaving them easy prey

All together, Malokak Skodrengi will ensure none can flee the field, too busy freezing, trapped, buffeted by weakening, horrifying, terrible cold, a cold that kills the spirit, even as allies are strengthened by the heart of a blizzard itself. Whether it be combat with an equally mighty abomination or an army in the field or a fortification, in all cases the effect of the armor will allow Maraz to come to grips with the enemy and advantage it over the foe.

Urkirunk:

Foe Thrasher

A mallet, to be wielded in one or both hands, made of Wutroth for the grip and steel in the head. The head shall be inscribed with images of the Great Incursion, in particular the death of Kholek Suneater while the shaft shall be decorated with knotwork depictions of the Liberation of Karag Dum in brightest and best gold.

It shall be Runed thusly:

Master Rune of Smiting: Given the horn of an Elder Thundertusk, it shall strike and it shall break and it shall sunder, destroying everything it touches, making the earth quake, tearing apart enemy structures in single blows and destroying entire regiments in a single strike, all while weeping thick cold, the cold of a mighty beast.

Rune of Fury: Barazgal, gold of Grungni; and Grungni, Ancestor of Justice, of Judgement. Contempt for each remembered Grudge, for each life cut short will fill each blow with power, with strength, with purpose, increasing the might of each blow to new heights with every strike.

Rune of Force: The Gas Sac of an Elder Wyrm, where the thing's force and power and strength are built and wait only to be unleashed, much as it is in the Master Rune of Immolation, the heat interwoven with the Master Rune of Conduction to create a mighty burst of fire and power that can blast apart an entire regiment in a single blow.

Every blow will level buildings, regiments, entire streets, blasting apart enemy fortifications and formations with the same ease you or I pull apart a hot bun, vast, blazing shockwaves blowing everything apart in a symphony of destruction that could level an entire city.

Grimnir Alkron

The Old Story of Grimnir


Many have told the tale of how Grimnir sacrificed Himself, doomed and defiant, going to the North to force shut the way. This? This is not that. This is how Grimnir lived, stories when He lived, when He walked among His people. Myths gathered from every part of the Karaz Ankor, threaded in gold onto fine silk bordered with good Brana down and draped on Maraz as a cloak, legends verified by elders ancient when Snorri was young, and in particular His campaigns to clean the north. Woven into the fabric itself shall be three Runes:

The Master Rune of Grimnir: A crest feather from the Ancestor of the Brana, The King of the Skies, shall power it; and those who see this cloak, draped on the shoulders of this mighty breaker of stone shall fight as Grimnir, their skill, their prowess, their determination growing beyond any merely mortal limit to emulate a thousandth of their Ancestor of war...and that, that is enough.

The Rune of Berserk: A Dragon Ogre Shaggoth's Heart shall feed the rune and the Rune shall feed fury, hot gorm, fire and rage and wrath and strength to warriors as they are reminded of the battles of Grimnir, of the battles to survive, of insult and injury and evil, the power of the enemy harnessed to good.

The Rune of Choler: The Lung of an Ancient Dragon once inflated with Fury, and that stubborn, hard, fury will fill those see the story of Grimnir, emulate it, act as it, being as He was, trying to fill His shoes as a warrior who could convinced, persuaded, argued against--but never, never, surrendered to base fear.

All those who see the Grimnir Alkron shall fight like Dawi possessed, either stubbornly holding the line as wrathfully as He would have or else advancing on the gaps ripped open by Maraz with a great, fiery rage in their heart, taking advantage with all the skill of that gone warrior, attacking or defending alike as skillfully as the long gone King.
--
Essentially, a T4 mega-siege gronti and heir to my cheapo-flex-Gronti, inspired by a reread of the earliest Fimir campaigns where things could have gone very sideways if Sven had gotten got, as he almost did, or even just his siege weapons. Gonna be a lot harder to kill this thing. There is stuff I am flexible on, particularly aesthetically (I am not attached to the cyan lacquer on the armor), but these are all the components I want to produce at all unless some Bungie tier mad genius shows up saying "I have a Talisman that will let it produce Adamant and Ale at the same time", otherwise no feature-creep, please for the love of god. Feel free to toss any questions my way.

Yes, AOM Fans, it was inspired by what you think it was inspired by.
 
what potential monumental items even are there?

are we gonna make a mountain that flies some time down the line?
Rent it out to other Runesmiths/Engineers, if you can't think of anything else to do. That sort of collaboration is literally why be built Khazagar the way we did.

Siege engines? Really damn beefy siege engines Snorri could rent our availability to when he's not using it for Favor
Or things like this, where we experiment and push the boundaries of Runesmithing and Engineering alike.
 
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So which is better, a facility for monumental projects, which are expensive even for us but makes it slightly more effective

Or to upgrade the base Super GRONTI with the best of hte best
 
Siege engines? Really damn beefy siege engines Snorri could rent our availability to when he's not using it for Favor

Super-Giant Grontis, another specialty of the Klausson rune-school of Madness. Valaya's Mercy- Moira's gonna come back and pan us all.

Although the more I think about it, Zharrok would want to have a look at the place if he'd want some ideas in improving his own skills/room for super giant masterworks. Heck, if it's in a Wardstone there's a good chance he'll might as well ask if he can stay a bit for study/projects.
 
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what potential monumental items even are there?

are we gonna make a mountain that flies some time down the line?
Monumental to me is that weird grey area between Building, and really really big War Machine. They'd be a subset of Engineering but you're closer to the blurring of the lines from a different angle. Gronti are the most obvious example, because they can get build. Most likely ships around the size of a Dwarf Dreadnaught and airships of similar size as well. Stuff that is a moving building? Yeah that fits.

In 40k terms I guess it would be Titans and Ordinatus Engines, not to that size but moreso that place in the scheme of stuff. #Mechanics
 
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Yes. You cant build the Gronti without some sort of facility.
Okay in that case at +2 actions, assuming that it cannot proc the benefit before the first two are spent, the Gronti facility breaks even at 8 actions spent and at +3 the general facility breaks even at 12 actions spent.
I'm not sure we can pay off the general but the only reason we shouldn't build the Gronti specialist one is if we're genuinely concerned about the security risk to a waystone or Anvil.
If the facility bonus applies even to the actions spent making it the break evens are 6 and 9.
 
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Yes and?

I know what I said.

We don't currently have plans for a monumental item, but we can definitely make a plan. Meanwhile this eases our ability to produce many unique Gronti.
Skaudargrengi requires over a hundred bars of Adamant to build, alongside many many liters of dragon blood.

If that is even close to a reliable benchmark for Monumental creations, then unless we dramatically ramp up our production facilities, we would barely be able to make one every century or two, and they'd take away resources from other projects.

I just don't see us creating Monumental creations often enough for dedicated facilities to be a valuable use of AP.

Just out of interest, what Monumental items would we make? I can only think of Gronti and buildings, and we actually have to double our effort to lug buildings back if we go for extra over just the Gronti facility since nothing else can just walk back to civilisation.
The only relevant thing that comes to mind is armor for the dragons when they become adults, but I don't think a dedicated facility is worth it for a single project.

Edit: Besides the cost and lack of relevant projects of such scale, there's also the fact that I personally want to build Skaudargrengi at the Anvil, but I don't think the Anvil is a good place for a production facility, so there's that.
 
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I am not the planmaker for it, but I believe they were gonna write-in those after the fact yes.
Coolio. Thanks much.

Even if its on a secret location?
I don't want it outside Khazagar, because I don't think it's worth it. Even if it is on a secret location, we've already had multiple instances of Runesmiths and Engineers and Metalsmiths and whatnot finding out their own unique talents via exposure to others they might not have gotten.

Might as well get the Rangers in on that gig, if it's going to be done.

And any proper Dwarf facility in a secret location has means of asset denial, whether that be sealing, destruction, or something else. Defense. In. Depth.
 
that does bring up a thing that might not have been realised by everyone.

for the future making shit with the facility, anything that's structural cannot be built there unless it is staying there. you have to make that stuff on site.

so if any conception for a monument isn't mobile runewise, it doesn't work as something you could make in the facility.

which means gronti and siege weapons. and we ain't an engineer, we have no place trying to make proper non-gronti siege weapons.

rune already existing ones sure, but making them as would be the purpose of such a facility?

oh, and also transports. that's much easier to concieve of us using the facility for. as a sky-shipyard.
 
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Someone asked for a bit of clarity and I'll edit it into the post too, but to be clear:

[Location] and [Scope] affect the Facility's final action cost.

The [Runes] vote affects Skaudardrengi's final action cost.
 
With that clarification in mind, it costs us nothing to go full send and build a monumental facility at the Anvil. We want to stormforge this thing. Even if it's never used for anything else, we want to stormforge it because we know the anvil dragged up a Fragment of the Deep magic the first time. That is the best chance for a getting a more active, more powerful, and potentially intelligent gronti.
 
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