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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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NCRanger22 said:
Damn that's a lot of votes...
Let me put mine in

[x] [X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
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you have two [X], and the vote only needs one
 
This being cohesive with Snorri's character. Is one of the main reasons who i vote and argumented for claim the title he always as far i read been do a duty to the wider dawi society fellow

And here during the trials and reading the poem he came to epihany that this trial is about a heir to the seat of durin and by extend thungni

Turning his back on that does not compute with his charecter a devotee to the wider durin and thungni philoshy does not sit well
 
NCRanger22 said:
Damn that's a lot of votes...
Let me put mine in

[x] [X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
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Kinda to edit the extra [] away there mate
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
Rukia said:
They are taking Snorri's interpretation of the plinth as actual fact and running with that, if the story was more explicit about Snorri's belief being what he thinks rather than Divine Mandate by Thungi I think this vote would have swung a different way. There is also the default assumption that because Snorri thinks it's true then everyone will agree to go along with this.
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Regardless of everything else, this argument specifically doesn't really hold water to me. The message was left by Thungni, who would have known exactly who 'the Lost' would be assumed to be referring to, and would have known how taking the empty seat would be seen by dwarfs. To say Snorri is misinterpreting it requires Thungni to have been essentially blind to Runesmithing culture and its hangups.
 
NSMS said:
Regardless of everything else, this argument specifically doesn't really hold water to me. The message was left by Thungni, who would have known exactly who 'the Lost' would be assumed to be referring to, and would have known how taking the empty seat would be seen by dwarfs. To say Snorri is misinterpreting it requires Thungni to have been essentially blind to Runesmithing culture and its hangups.
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You are disputing WoG here, that this is only Snorri's interpretation and that doesn't necessarily mean other people will agree with him.

Furthermore, Thungi is notorious for being awful at communicating with people. The message could easily have just meant "I believe this person can succeed where Durin failed and figure out how Runes work" not "I hereby declare you my Heir". The last 1/3 of this test was literally word-games that have multiple meanings depending on what you draw from them, rather than any actual meaning they have.
 
Mr. Idiot said:
Honestly, we can't put the hammer back. Snorri believes it belongs with the heir, and if he isn't the heir why would he think he should have it even if he is worthy of being the heir? The whole thing just exhausts me, and I'm kinda mad at Snorri for not waiting and thinking things through first.

We have the hammer and by Snorri's (what feels like) impulsive and dichotomical reckoning, we need to either ensure it gets to the heir, or be the heir.
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The option to not take the title but keep the hammer is right there. If it wasn't something Snorri would choose to do, it wouldn't be an option.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.



This is going to be so funny. Especially because, knowing the thread and knowing Snorri, if any of the Dwarves/holds making Khazagar-rivals ask Heir!Snorri about it, he'll probably endorse them. The more the merrier.

Also, I do think this would put Snorri in a decent place to avert the War of Vegetable.
 
Rukia said:
You are disputing WoG here, that this is only Snorri's interpretation and that doesn't necessarily mean other people will agree with him.

Furthermore, Thungi is notorious for being awful at communicating with people. The message could easily have just meant "I believe this person can succeed where Durin failed and figure out how Runes work" not "I hereby declare you my Heir". The last 1/3 of this test was literally word-games that have multiple meanings depending on what you draw from them, rather than any actual meaning they have.
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Soulcake has said that taking the seat of the Lost would be seen as becoming Thungni's heir by the overwhelmingly vast majority of dwarfs. It's true that that's not all of them, but who is it more likely Thungni is aiming his message at- the majority, or the minority? That's what I mean; while it's true that this is Snorri's interpretation of the text, it's also the interpretation the vast majority of dwarfs would have, and unless he's an idiot Thungni would have known that.

Basically, either the obvious reading and conclusion Snorri came to is the correct one, or Thungni is for some reason choosing to deliberately mislead the person who passed all his trials, and by extension the vast majority of the runesmiths alive. And while it's not impossible that that's the case, I highly doubt it.
 
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Yeah, another thing is this will allow us to do is get more involved in non Runesmith politics, should we so wish it, while also not dragging us into it, as Thungni's heir wouldn't be expected to be constantly involved in politics
 
NSMS said:
Soulcake has said that taking the seat of the Lost would be seen as becoming Thungni's heir by the overwhelmingly vast majority of dwarfs. It's true that that's not all of them, but who is it more likely Thungni is aiming his message at- the majority, or the minority? That's what I mean; while it's true that this is Snorri's interpretation of the text, it's also the interpretation the vast majority of dwarfs would have, and unless he's an idiot Thungni would have known that.

Basically, either the obvious reading and conclusion Snorri came to is the correct one, or Thungni is for some reason choosing to deliberately mislead the person who passed all his trials, and by extension the vast majority of the runesmiths alive. And while it's not impossible that that's the case, I highly doubt it.
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Yes, taking the seat would be seen as becoming Thungi's Heir. The fact that we believe we deserve the seat is an entirely different matter, all we have is a hammer and a belief. And if we tell people what the plinth said it's going to get torn to shreds, because it has so many interpretations that Snorri picking the most pretentious one is a very bad look.
 
Snorri's a fool and is about to hurt himself. Unless we can delay the choice, which we can't, we're stuck. Because Snorri just had to make this call here and now and only in one of two ways.
 
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Rukia said:
Yes, taking the seat would be seen as becoming Thungi's Heir. The fact that we believe we deserve the seat is an entirely different matter, all we have is a hammer and a belief. And if we tell people what the plinth said it's going to get torn to shreds, because it has so many interpretations that Snorri picking the most pretentious one is a very bad look.
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'To claim the Hammer is to claim the seat of one Lost.' That's... pretty unambiguous, to my eyes. The seat of one Lost is Durin's, and claiming that seat is seen as being the same thing as becoming Thungni's heir in the eyes of almost all runesmiths. It's not an outright statement of 'you are now my heir', true, but Thungni would have known exactly how it would be read by the vast majority of dwarfs. So unless you think he was out to confuse and mislead everyone- and in a message likely to be read to and revealed to every runesmith out there, rather than a private riddle, I can't see why he would- the simplest and most straightforward explanation is most likely correct.
 
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I think it is established that even by being mysterious, Thungi is pretty straightforward, it is just that most Dawi thinks there is more to his talk.
 
Derpmind said:
I don't understand your circular reasoning. If keeping the hammer means Snorri must take on the title, then this wouldn't even be a vote. But it is. So your logic just can't be true.
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He doesn't want to take the title and also wants to give the hammer to a better heir choice.

I disagree with this. It would get us censured almost for certain. It's saying that we can pick a better Heir for Thungni than the process Thungni himself designed to pick his Heir
 
I think someone already said that is more of an internal choice for Snorri. Even if we reject, word will get out of Snorri having The Hammer and most would think he is Thungi's Heir...especially when they see it with their own eyes.

I will say, if Snorri accepts the claim..it would be badass when during the next Runelord meeting...he sits on Durin's Seat and says: "The place of the Lost is filled, now we continue with the conclave."
 
Man, I don't know how it didn't click before, but we're really screaming that we're not forming a traditional guild while setting everything up so that we can. Like, Khazagar itself was bad enough, but taking on the seat of Durin, while also sitting on the largest congregation of disparate Runesmiths in the Karaz Ankor, or at least the North? We look so so so much more like the Guildmaster we were fervently saying we weren't. That's....not gonna end well?

Like really not well. Other than actually declaring yourself Guildmaster specifically, I don't know of much that would scream that you're intentionally consolidating a power base in the North and gathering the North's runesmith's under your authority more than this.
 
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Derpmind said:
I don't understand your circular reasoning. If keeping the hammer means Snorri must take on the title, then this wouldn't even be a vote. But it is. So your logic just can't be true.
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I think that snorri thinks that hammer belongs to the heir.

I don't know *what* to do with the hammer. I just know I'm starting to hate this damn thing because of all the annoying confusing baggage around it. Suppose you could pass it to Alric, but even that's iffy. I'd prefer if Snorri didn't think he had to announce himself as the Heir of Thungni, maybe as the heir of Durin. Idk, anything that's not *this,* ditching in a hole somewhere, or passing it off to a rando.

Whatever, the votes have fallen and without an upset, he'll be claiming the title. Hopefully this entire thing can be forgotten so the quest can get back to the fun stuff.
 
Gabriel_TFA said:
Snorri having The Hammer and most would think he is Thungi's Heir
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I must reiterate.

Snorri only believes this is what the poem is saying. a poem that is now destroyed.

Every Runesmith believes that Durin was Thungni's heir.

NO ONE else is equating the hammer to being the new heir besides Snorri right now.
 
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