So, neither really has that much issue with Black. LH is leery about sacrifices and life drain, but so is a portion of the playerbase and Blake herself; I'd say it's a healthy concern to have.

As we thought, AE is more the plot/family guild, while LH is more for magic and will get along much better with our ability to go to Renmant and MGLN.

In that regard, I feel LH is even better than we thought for reaching our long-term goal of helping Renmant out and getting rid of the Grimm.

I'll also note that while it's mentioned relationships will be slower to form and less cuddly, we'd still be able to form relations in LH, so it's not like we're killing Blake's heart. We already knew AE would be faster friends in that regards, nothing really new there.

And finally,

This is a pretty good one. They would likely have less issue with our off-plane trips than we thought, not to mention more useful data we and Blake could learn.

Gee Alivaril, how come AE gets a fanboy, extra data and a snippet :p

While some want the cake and to eat it, keep in mind we're like 70+ people with differing opinions. Fragmentation is to be expected.
LH does not offer us anything we can't get anyway with some extra investment.
A safe haven with people we know, trust and love is something money can't buy, and i think is the most useful long term benefit early on.
Especially as it comes not only with a continent level powerhouse to back us up, but also a warlock who can help us learn more about black magic, instead of possibly forcing us to curtail the use of our core magic abilities.
 
I think it's worth noting that if land-bonding is a thing here, LH will have us going to exotic places and spending a lot of consecutive time in each one. Meaning lots of land-bonds.
 
I was leaning Liquid Horizon, but after thinking on it the only thing they give that Angel's Eye doesn't is quicker access to self-improvement resources (of various types7. Closer friendships are a better long-term investment for a Planeswalker, though either option works.

[X][1] Angel's Eye (Small & New)
[X][2] Liquid Horizon (Archeology & Magic Development)
[X][3] Sylph Symphony (Artifact Creation)
[X][4] Lion's Pride (Large & General)
 
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LH does not offer us anything we can't get anyway with some extra investment.
A safe haven with people we know, trust and love is something money can't buy, and i think is the most useful long term benefit early on.
Especially as it comes not only with a continent level powerhouse to back us up, but also a warlock who can help us learn more about black magic, instead of possibly forcing us to curtail the use of our core magic abilities.
Again, LH explicitly doesn't not have much more of a stigma against Black than AE. They're leery about sacrifices, but so are we and Blake. We aren't crippling ourselves, just being more careful. And with Magic experts, they're helping us in both Black and other magic. Keep in mind they are labeled as the magic development guild

Also, LH also already has these powerhouses, if you'll remember. AE will need them to actually grow to that level first.

And again, we can find friendships in LH. From what it sounds, Guildmates stick together, and there will be people in them we will get closer to. We won't be sacrificing our ability to make friends or such.
 
It's also much better to be in a guild than to just hire them, and again in no place is it mentioned we will have no relationships in LH; AE is smaller and thus more personal, but we can still form bonds and find good friends in LH. Just because the people in AE only have been mentioned doesn't mean potential friends don't exist in LH.

It'll just take longer, which I feel is worth the trade.
Not your intention, but the idea of our black cat mage trading friendship for power and knowledge is a kinda funny in how it tovetails at some of the concerns at early magic vote. :V
Yes, in a vacuum utilitarian level, being in a guild is better than hiring them.
But the potential issues with black magic is not something i am willing to discount, and we have confirmation that planeswalker knowledge is available through AE as well. So the only real benefit is learning about archeology, and maybe some loot, and i am not willing to trade getting a surrogate family going asap for that.

We need a safe haven above all else, and AE seems to be the place for that, with most protection and least complications.
 
I don't really want to ignore the difference in stigma - yes, it's mostly about sacrifice, but... if they don't have a warlock they might assume our kind of magic is going to lead to that eventually. And Blake is already worried about that, so reinforcing that with external stigma means we're less likely to be able to develop useful skills that might involve sacrificial magic? If you put Blake in a guild with people who have fears or apprehensions about her magic that could make her afraid of her own powers later on, or at least having to consciously work to avoid fairly standard Black effects like paying a little life up front for things.

I think learning to embrace her color would be more interesting to read than that.
 
Again, LH explicitly doesn't not have much more of a stigma against Black than AE. They're leery about sacrifices, but so are we and Blake. We aren't crippling ourselves, just being more careful. And with Magic experts, they're helping us in both Black and other magic. Keep in mind they are labeled as the magic development guild

Also, LH also already has these powerhouses, if you'll remember. AE will need them to actually grow to that level first.

And again, we can find friendships in LH. From what it sounds, Guildmates stick together, and there will be people in them we will get closer to. We won't be sacrificing our ability to make friends or such.
Are we? Is she?
I atleasy have zero issues with sacrifices, if i was going to go for lethal force anyway, i have no problem doing it in a way that leaves us in a stronger position afterwards.
Our magic was specifically brought up as a potential issue, while AE was specifically noted to have a warlock who views magic as tools, instead of assigning inherent moral value on it.
And while all guilds stick together, the extent of it differs, AE seems more like an extended family, while LH is a company with a mission. And there is nothing wrong with that, but it does lead to different style of companionships and ties within it, and can change how far the guild itself will be going for its members if issues come up.

But apart from that, we're more or less talking in circles due to different priorities.
You want resources now, friendship later, while i am prioritise the opposite.
 
I mean, Blake literally accumulated a friend just doing the bar gig. She's going to pick a few up anywhere she goes if she spends enough time there. LH isn't 'no friendship'. It's just not as immediate a friendship, and with individuals we have not even been told about yet.


And yeah, AE does feel familial... but that probably cuts both ways. It seems like a guild that very much lives out of each other's pockets. There is likely to be less privacy and more potential for personal issues to become Big Deals.
 
But the potential issues with black magic is not something i am willing to discount, and we have confirmation that planeswalker knowledge is available through AE as well
We were told they no more scared of Black than AE, just careful of the sacrifice stuff, and it's not like we will be banned from that. They're the guild that works with dangerous magic, I seriously doubt we'd be an OOC element to them or prevent us from applying it, especially once they warm up to us.
So the only real benefit is learning about archeology, and maybe some loot, and i am not willing to trade getting a surrogate family going asap for that.
We also get experts better able to help us out with Magic's and artifacts for free, without needing to set up meetings, trades and travel to other places, better land-bond oppurtunities, faster access to a larger guild that's stronger than AE, meaning more safety...

..better land bond opportunities, better planeswalking knowledge and development of off-plane magic and tech, Aura included, more diverse skill sets to draw from, and we'd still be able to make friends, especially with people who'd jump at getting Aura.

I'd say all that is worth less immediate cuddliness and shenanigans. Keep in mind this is the larger and safer guild right now, and they don't get serially kidnapped. We can still find a family, they won't throw us out or treat us as contractors.

And finally, we can find Warlocks willing to help just as we can find people to check out artifacts, if that's such an issue. We haven't even looked for friendly warlocks yet
 
I have classes in a bit, so I'll be dipping out for a while. I'll answer any stockpiled answers when I return.

It still boggles my mind that people see having to read through things like the provided snippet as an upside.
...In hindsight, maybe I should've picked a different snippet. Or just stuck to the first paragraph. ^^;

Assuming it's not too much trouble (like if detailed notes don't exist yet), who are some of the big names in LH, and what magic do they use?
Rebecca Croce utilizes the magic "Foxfire," and has the same as one of her titles. Fire is not actually involved at any point; instead, illusions and vivid hallucinations serve to render her foes vulnerable to the ancient and powerful spell known as "Fist." She's more interested in the development side of things than the archeology end.

Alecco Gori is a user of Shadow Dragon Slayer magic, or what amounts to consuming shadows for power, controlling them, and becoming them. He frequently uses his ability to pass through blocked or unstable areas too small for a full-sized human to fit in.

Oza Nieri utilizes a variant on Take Over magic with a name not known outside the Guild. Take Over magic usually requires personal observation (and frequently damaging the target) in order to assume traits from a given creature. Oza instead manages to target now-extinct species and assume their traits, including traits from titanic dinosaurs and multiple powerful magical creatures hunted to extinction.


Has anyone within the Guild dabbled with Warlock magics post-legalization?
Over a sixth of them have done so just to see how it interacts with their preexisting magic. Most of them didn't pursue it beyond that, but a couple have continued to study what would be classified as Warlock magic now that they're allowed to do so. The Lost Magics in question are still pretty close to as they found them, though.


I don't really want to ignore the difference in stigma - yes, it's mostly about sacrifice, but... if they don't have a warlock they might assume our kind of magic is going to lead to that eventually. And Blake is already worried about that, so reinforcing that with external stigma means we're less likely to be able to develop useful skills that might involve sacrificial magic? If you put Blake in a guild with people who have fears or apprehensions about her magic that could make her afraid of her own powers later on, or at least having to consciously work to avoid fairly standard Black effects like paying a little life up front for things.
As an aside, any concerns would be less from societal hesitation and more from their experience with things like "sacrificial spells that used a city as fuel."


[
Also keep in mind that picking Angel's Eye wouldn't be the only possible source of companionship for Blake—and yes, Blake could form friendships within Liquid Horizon. More preexisting friendships and social groups—and less emphasis on an environment intended to foster close friendships among everyone in the Guild—just means it'd be trickier. "New member!" is a big deal in Angel's Eye due to their size; not so much for LH. Both MGLN and RWBY also have their fair share of groups that would accept her (although it'd be much harder for Blake in RWBY, so maybe I shouldn't include that as a point :p ).

It's also worth remembering that Liquid Horizon specializes in archeology and the development of Lost Magics uncovered from those expeditions. Plenty of members don't get involved with ruin-delving at all.
*lights match*
Liquid Horizon would also have more leads on the possible locations of Gold Celestial Spirit Gate keys, or powerful objects which essentially follow "input mana, receive a specific powerful warrior (one per key) willing to assist summoner." I will confirm they are capable of summoning the intelligent entities linked to them across planes. (EDIT: And it's pretty likely that Blake would become friends with them.)
 
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But apart from that, we're more or less talking in circles due to different priorities.
You want resources now, friendship later, while i am prioritise the opposite.
I think it's more immediate closeness vs bigger practical guild, I still maintain we'll make some friends in LH quickly; just won't be as familial from the get-go.

-But I agree. It does seem we've exhausted our points.

Edit:
Over a sixth of them have done so just to see how it interacts with their preexisting magic. Most of them didn't pursue it beyond that, but a couple have continued to study what would be classified as Warlock magic now that they're allowed to do so. The Lost Magics in question are still pretty close to as they found them, though.
That's LH Warlocks confirmed I guess. More than one too.
 
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We were told they no more scared of Black than AE, just careful of the sacrifice stuff, and it's not like we will be banned from that. They're the guild that works with dangerous magic, I seriously doubt we'd be an OOC element to them or prevent us from applying it, especially once they warm up to us.

We also get experts better able to help us out with Magic's and artifacts for free, without needing to set up meetings, trades and travel to other places, better land-bond oppurtunities, faster access to a larger guild that's stronger than AE, meaning more safety...

..better land bond opportunities, better planeswalking knowledge and development of off-plane magic and tech, Aura included, more diverse skill sets to draw from, and we'd still be able to make friends, especially with people who'd jump at getting Aura.

I'd say all that is worth less immediate cuddliness and shenanigans. Keep in mind this is the larger and safer guild right now, and they don't get serially kidnapped. We can still find a family, they won't throw us out or treat us as contractors.

And finally, we can find Warlocks willing to help just as we can find people to check out artifacts, if that's such an issue. We haven't even looked for friendly warlocks yet
"Just think of all the power (and wealth)"
And with power we can make friends. :V

Yes, not your point, but it is kinda funny how it sounds.
I think it's more immediate closeness vs bigger practical guild, I still maintain we'll make some friends in LH quickly; just won't be as familial from the get-go.

-But I agree. It does seem we've exhausted our points.
Ofcourse we'll make friends.
I said friendship later, not friendship never.
And i guess when i say "friend" i might mean something else than when you say "friend", i'm talking more of the "will walk into near certain death for you" friends here, not "will invite you clubbing" friends.
AE simply has an easier time for us to fit in, and i value getting friends asap as higher priority than getting easier access to personal power and wealth (or knowledge), and the lack of clicques and such is a major bonus for me.
 
Alecco Gori is a user of Shadow Dragon Slayer magic, or what amounts to consuming shadows for power, controlling them, and becoming them. He frequently uses his ability to pass through blocked or unstable areas too small for a full-sized human to fit in.

Nice. Shadow Dragon Slayer magic was one of the biggest potential finds I was hoping for out of a Guild; it's the Dragon Slayer magic most obviously associated with Black. I'd place good odds on Blake being able to learn it.
 
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AE simply has an easier time for us to fit in, and i value getting friends asap as higher priority than getting easier access to personal power and wealth (or knowledge), and the lack of clicques and such is a major bonus for me
Simply different priorities then, yeah. You consider immediate closeness worth the trade-off, I think it's not worth since we're getting these friendships eventually anyway.


Seems we've reached a point of understanding, then. Thanks for the discussion :Salute:
"Just think of all the power (and wealth)"
And with power we can make friends. :V

Yes, not your point, but it is kinda funny how it sounds.
"Power is friendship"
-Some Black mage, probably :p
 
Simply different priorities then, yeah. You consider immediate closeness worth the trade-off, I think it's not worth since we're getting these friendships eventually anyway.


Seems we've reached a point of understanding, then. Thanks for the discussion :Salute:

"Power is friendship"
-Some Black mage, probably :p
Like I mentioned earlier, it's worth noting that we can almost certainly do anything we need to with LH later as well. It would be a bit harder than it would as a part of their guild, but we'd certainly have leverage enough to do so as a planeswalker.

And honestly until we've started encountering such extra planar or lost magics there's not as much reason to worry about them anyway. So better to get Blake to a more functional mental state first, as that will make literally everything down the line easier. It's also the thing she currently is most lacking in I'd say.
 
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Simply different priorities then, yeah. You consider immediate closeness worth the trade-off, I think it's not worth since we're getting these friendships eventually anyway.
And we are getting the power and wealth eventually anyway as well.
But yes, i think we have reached an understanding.
Happy to have a polite conversation.
(such a novel experience on the internet :V )
 
Sometimes, the real friend is the treasure you looted along the way. For everything else, there's Social Links.
 
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And honestly until we've started encountering such extra planar or lost magics there's not as much reason to worry about them anyway. So better to get Blake to a more functional mental state first, as that will make literally everything down the line easier. It's also the thing she currently is most lacking in I'd say.
I will say, as far as that goes: the best time to learn how to defuse a bomb is not as you go.

If we don't pick up some knowledge of this stuff before running into it, I would strongly suggest we plan to be very very cautious for those first few encounters.

Not like a 'grr arg we must do this now' thing, just that if we start running into lost ancient or extraplanar magics without knowing much about them we should very much use caution as the watchword when it happens.
 
Their focus on archeology and magical research would help Blake grow in power, but I'm on the fence as to how necessary that is given that Fairy Tail basically runs on shonen style force of will and friendship.
Don't count on this being true here. The "setting knowledge not required" tag isn't for show.
Fragmentation is to be expected.
I dunno, I wouldn't hold my breath. Alivaril's muse seems pretty focused here right now.

:V That's not a dig, mate. I have too many dropped projects in my past to give you grief about it.

Re: Liquid Horizon and Friendship, I think people are underestimating just how much bonding can occur when collaborating to study and understand potentially lethal magic, or in exploring potentially hazardous ruins, especially if monsters are a common result of rogue Lost Magic. I'm not saying it'll be anywhere near as easy as Angel's Eye (since when did guilds use an apostrophe?), but it's not going to be without chances to form tight bonds, nor entirely absent of combat, either.
 
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I was pretty on the fence about this vote, about 60/40 in favor of LH over AE. but after this, it's more like 85/15 in favor of LH.

If we can get in touch with people that have experience with warlock magic without going to AE then the only reason is faster friendship?

I don't think that seeking friendship would be something that Blake would consider as the most important factor.
 
(Back!)
Angel's Eye (since when did guilds use an apostrophe?)
At least it isn't Angel's Eyes. :p

If we can get in touch with people that have experience with warlock magic without going to AE then the only reason is faster friendship?
The type of Warlock magic they're dealing with is also significantly more volatile, dangerous, and harder to become skilled with than what you could learn from Angel's Eye, and AE's Warlock has more experience since she was working on it even before legalization. Still, Lost Magic is often recovered from the ruins of dead states, not the corner store, and Lost Magics (or their wielders) were often the things responsible for those states dying in the first place. It might not necessarily be that specific Lost Magic which caused the collapse, but Liquid Horizon frequently can't confirm that a particular magic wasn't.

EDIT: And then some of the magics simply fell out of favor since they were a PITA and easier/safer (if often weaker) alternatives existed. Dabbling in recovered Lost Magic often means rolling the dice and not knowing if it was apocalypse or accessibility which made it become Lost. :p

EDIT 2: Liquid Horizon generally tries to remove the pitfalls, but the recent legalization means they haven't had much time to work on Warlock-related Lost Magic.
 
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[X][1] Angel's Eye (Small & New)
[X][2] Liquid Horizon (Archeology & Magic Development)
[X][3] Sylph Symphony (Artifact Creation)
[X][4] Lion's Pride (Large & General)
 
[X][4] Angel's Eye (Small & New)
[X][1] Liquid Horizon (Archeology & Magic Development)
[X][3] Sylph Symphony (Artifact Creation)
[X][2] Lion's Pride (Large & General)

[X] yes
-[X] After you're reasonably satisfied that the voices won't harm you, or have dealt with them if they would.

Blake is an antisocial ex-terrorist, who wants to usurp control of the White Fang and put an end to oppression.
If she ever runs into a bad situation she can Plane's walk or failing that, she can Pray. The only time Blake would be in any real danger is while delving ancient ruins (since they are explicitly dangerous mystery boxes full of loot). It's also important to note that we can only visit a few worlds and one of them is stuffed to the brim with ancient magic.
 
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Blake is an anti social ex-terrorist.
And i would rather like to work on the anti social bit.
As for being unable to bring friends along, does not matter to me, friends have value beyond just foot soldiers, and i'm kinda hoping to delve into different worlds at depth, which means we need local friends we can trust to do so with.
 
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