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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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cheesyme said:
We're before the Fall of the Eldar and Birth of Slaanesh, Craftworlds aren't really that big a thing and I'm not sure Exodites as we'd recognize them exist yet.
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As stated by others, Craftworlds are already a thing, though right now they should still be exploration and long range trading vessels/fleets.

The Exodites left the core worlds a long time ago. They saw the decadence enveloping the Eldar Empire and went luddite in response (effectively) and left for Maiden worlds to settle into a frontier life style to live away from temptation.

With the Warp stirring the doomsayers should be out in full force in the Eldar Empire core and those that heed them will be starting to/in the process of leaving the Eldar worlds, some fleeing to the Exodite worlds and some flooding into the long range exploration/trading fleets that would eventually become the craftworlds as we know them.

In fact there are many, many more Craftworlds/proto-Craftworlds that exist in this period than in 30k/40k proper because many proto-craftworlds returned home to attempt to evacuate more people before doom befell the Eldar. Many didn't manage to leave soon enough to not get caught up in the Fall as Slaanesh's birth creates the Eye of Terror. Many proto-craftworlds would get caught up in the Eye of Terror and would be consumed immediately or suffer the same fate as Ulthwe. Getting caught in the pull of the Eye of Terror unable to escape, yet not be immediately consumed, resulting in a siege situation as Chaos forces regularly attack them.
 
saganatsu said:
That sounds impossible for orks, or rather that the cost is unacceptably high, and even then not likely to work:
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The bright side is that we would only need a handful. After all, Orkz rapidly replace themselves should the need arise, and the Krork are literal giants, so you'd only need a few to make a truly terrifying force to be reckoned with.
 
SneakyWalrus said:
The bright side is that we would only need a handful. After all, Orkz rapidly replace themselves should the need arise, and the Krork are literal giants, so you'd only need a few to make a truly terrifying force to be reckoned with.
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I mean biologically speaking, they're still orks. They should still obey the same laws orks do, and I don't really see any reason they wouldn't. Likely the ones that are truly monstrous in size are the ones who have lived as war bosses (or Krork equivalents) for hundreds - thousands of years and undergone the metamorphosis that all extremely dominant orks make. Just the Krork actually had the self-preservation and instincts necessary to survive to that age. The average Krork boy should be the same size as the average Ork boy. Just smarter and armed with superior tech.
 
Changing the nature of the Orks is, as several people have pointed out, next to impossible. The only possible way that comes to mind is if the Slann can either influence the entire Waaaagh-field, which is highly unlikely, or somehow seperate a population of Orks from the field and reconnect them to a new one.

This second option is difficult in a different way. We do not know what would happen to Orks, who are disconnected from the Waaaagh. For all we know their heads explode or their brains just die.

I'm positive that this approach can work to some degree. We have already seen instances of Slann influencing or manipulating the Waaaagh around Weird-Boyz. Granted this is a whole different level of complexity, but even if it doesn't work, we would still learn a lot about guiding and manipulating the Waaaagh and with it the Orks.
 
Xantalos said:
Okay, this was really neat. Nice way of portraying the potency and creativity of an older skink priest. I tend to give a lot of attention to the slann because they're badass and I like complicated magic, but it's good to remember that the simple stuff tends to work just as well for the layman.
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I did have the inspiration material up the whole time in a separate tab.

And for the curious, Xihuitl is according to what I found a word for both Flame and Year. (Possibly even Turquoise).

I also do find it kinda interesting that if they get old enough, Azur and Aqshy Priests are nearly the same in color if not for the other magical give-aways like the heat haze and lightning about each respectively.
 
On the subject of the Eldar, there's also a lot more diversity amongst them than later. You have the likes of the proto-Haemonculi in the Webway experimenting with extreme trans-eldarism, like transmigrating their souls into beams of light or sections of space time, along with the core worlders who make a sport of surfing coronal mass ejections.

You'll also probably have the veterans of the War(s?) in Heaven around, either in the Materium or the warp, so if the Slann are curious about what the Old Ones got up to in this universe, there are probably Eldar who were there at the time they can ask.
 
Thanks for update.
All the jokes about Orks and Lizardmens I can think of already been made, that take me too long to read the comments.
I don't say it enough - I love the esoteric descriptions in that quest! I like your writing style in general, but esoteric parts is even more amazing than (almost) anything else! Xantalos, you are doing a magnificient job!

ReaperofInterest said:
So, here's something to ponder. Should we work towards Qhyash skinks first, or Slann?
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I, for one, argued to use Relic Priests, to get a discount. That way we'll be able to finish Slann Spawning in five turns at most (unless we'll get a bunch of new research projects in "Spawning" category).
Here is most of my arguments and thoughts:
Koraan said:
We, hopefully, will spend a 1250 slannpower on Slann Spawning related researches each turn after we'll beat the orks.
With @Simon_Jester 's outline, we'll use first two turns to research a BSSE, then two more turns bor SS: PC, and then another two for SSAA. Each of those three is Impossible tier project (i.e. need 2500 slannpower to complete).

But I think we can try different path. "Consult Relic Priests" action can double any slannpower for research purposes at the cost of ability to choose the exact research we want.
In the "Spawning" category currently:
Basic Soul Structure Examination (2500)
Slann Spawning: Physical Construction (2500)
Loquatl Spawning (40)
Sacred Spawnings: Basic Manipulation (425)
(x3) Create Sub-Breed (900)
Skink Priests: Qhaysh (???)
Total: 2500+2500+40+425+900*3+(Skink Priests)=8165+(Skink Priests)

Most unlucky rolls might give us Sub-Breed three times in a row and then Skink Priests with Sacred Spawning on top. Most lucky rolls, on the other hand, can give us two researches from three we need in two turns instead of four. Both outcomes pretty unlikely, thought.
But let's do some math.
With Simon's outline, we gonna spend four turns for BSSE and SS: PC.
With "Consult Relic Priests" that would give us 1250*2*4(amount of turns)=10000 of slannpower in "Spawning" researches. As you can see above, all our current researches worth only slightly more than 8k (+Skink Priests cost). That mean, we can research ALL of our "Spawning" category and then some for the same four turns.
Possible troubles - some researches will unlock new researches. Like, I almost sure, Sacred Spawnings: Basic Manipulation will unlock Sacred Spawnings: Advanced Manipulation or something like that. But the most expensive(outside of what we really want to grab) - Sub-Species - likely, a dead ends.
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Koraan said:
About our chances with Relic Priests.
16,(6)% to finish BSSE in one go.
+3,(3)% to get Loquatl Spawning and then BSSE (i.e. we'll be able to finish it with only 40 slannpower turn later)
So, basically, 20% to insta-completion.

Slightly less good, but still better than straight research - we can get Qhaysh Skinks, or Sacred Spawning, or Sub-Breed, and then BSSE. That still would get us more progress in BSSE, than we'd get without Relic Priests. Chances ~14%.
And about 2% to get either Sub-Breed, then Sacred Spawning, then BSSE, or Sacred Spawning, then Sub-Breed, then BSSE. That'd leave us with (1175/2500) in BSSE. Slightly less (-75 slannpower) than with straight research.
I.e. For the purpose of getting BSSE done, first turn of consultations with Relic Priests have ~34% to be purely positive (as "get more than one turn worth in research we want") compared to "straight research" route (+2% for "almost as good").
For the purpose of achieving Slann Spawning, on the other hand, we can double that number, because we have SS: PC here, that we need too. So ~68% of purely positive, and another ~4% with "almost as good".

Research: We need 6 turns to reach Slann Spawning.
Consultation: Best case scenario - 3 turns. Worst case scenario - 4 turns to research all the researches currently in Spawning Category, and another one for Slann Spiritual Architecture Analysis. I.e. we either completing it significantly earlier, or... still earlier, just not so much.
And most likely getting at least some side-projects complete, for all practical purposes, for free.

edit: I have to point - my comparision not include possible additions of new research projects like if someone will suggest a new Sub-Breed.
There's 635 slannpower buffer, but if we'll unlock something costly along the way... Well, we'll be forced to make a math again, to see what option is better, depend of current situatiom.
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My first post doesn't have a cost for Skink Priests: Qhaysh. Second one does.
 
Alratan said:
You'll also probably have the veterans of the War(s?) in Heaven around, either in the Materium or the warp, so if the Slann are curious about what the Old Ones got up to in this universe, there are probably Eldar who were there at the time they can ask.
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Ehhhhhhhhh.
Thats approximately 64-65 million years ago.
Eldar live a long ass time, but not that long.
 
wait then how did the whole decadnce fall thing happened? cause wasn't a part of it they just keep reincarnating and have experienced eveything so they keep going to greater and greater heights of sensation if they reincarnate and forget everything how does that work then?
 
Woltaire said:
wait then how did the whole decadnce fall thing happened? cause wasn't a part of it they just keep reincarnating and have experienced eveything so they keep going to greater and greater heights of sensation if they reincarnate and forget everything how does that work then?
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~Spoilers~
You'll probably find out in quest later on.
 
Kaboomatic said:
I am fully 100% sure.

Also I'm the beta for this quest.
Just in case people forgot again.
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But wait, the Dark Eldar explicitly keep memories across *their* reincarnations even as Slaanesh attempts to slurp their souls like a milkshake, and their tech is explicitly handicapped by their decayed psionic potential. So how is it that pre-fall Eldar with both much better tech and no risk of soul-loss could possibly lose memories? I can understand some, maybe most of them doing so because they want to recapture the novelty of experience, but probably not all. Did I miss something?
 
Woltaire said:
wait then how did the whole decadnce fall thing happened? cause wasn't a part of it they just keep reincarnating and have experienced eveything so they keep going to greater and greater heights of sensation if they reincarnate and forget everything how does that work then?
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They must have had the most overwhelming feeling of deja vu ever and couldn't stop asking themselves "didn't I already do this?". It became so problematic that the Matrix consistently had to create new scenarios to keep the Eldar masses from waking up.

...
...
...

Wait what?
 
The Dark Eldar can also apparently resurrect dead Eldar heroes from the War in Heaven with a sufficiently strong power source to allow them to be extracted from Slaneesh's gut, which is interesting if said heroes should have lost their memories in the intervening tens of millions of years

The pre-Fall proto-haemonculi could also apparently reincarnate themselves in non-Eldar bodies (like beams of light or sections of space) while retaining their memories and identities. Even less radical Eldar would apparently do things like reincarnate as exotic animals to get a novel idea experience before resleeving in an Eldar body.
 
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Supermushu said:
But wait, the Dark Eldar explicitly keep memories across *their* reincarnations even as Slaanesh attempts to slurp their souls like a milkshake, and their tech is explicitly handicapped by their decayed psionic potential. So how is it that pre-fall Eldar with both much better tech and no risk of soul-loss could possibly lose memories? I can understand some, maybe most of them doing so because they want to recapture the novelty of experience, but probably not all. Did I miss something?
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Alright.
Here's the best explanation I can give.
Dark eldar reincarnation is facilitated by the homunculi im pretty sure. Its mostly artificial.
Pre fall eldar reincarnation is a natural part of their life cycle, and their memories are hazy and normally remembered through prophecy and portents. Think of it like consulting a relic priest, but not with weird backwards time stuff.
 
Kaboomatic said:
Alright.
Here's the best explanation I can give.
Dark eldar reincarnation is facilitated by the homunculi im pretty sure. Its mostly artificial.
Pre fall eldar reincarnation is a natural part of their life cycle, and their memories are hazy and normally remembered through prophecy and portents. Think of it like consulting a relic priest, but not with weird backwards time stuff.
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Eldar fighting Choas: "Hey past me, how do I kill this thing."
Previous incarnation: "A significant disruption in their Warp energies will cause a failure cascade resulting in the construct's discorperation."
Eldar: "Wha?"
PI: *sigh* "How was I ever that stupid?" Louder, "Stick the pointy end in the glowy bit and Deamon go boom."
Eldar: "Oh, why didn't you say so!" *stabs deamon. Killed by explosion.*
PI: *throws up hands* "NOT DEALING WITH THIS EVER AGAIN!"
 
Kaboomatic said:
You're not the same person.
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Afaik, The Murderfucking did have a "murder" part exactly because death of the body meant almost nothing for the Aeldari (Pre-Fall Eldar).
And with "you will die and become a new person's hazy memories"... I don't see they'd be that casual about it. At least not en masse.

Though, I don't know Warhammer lore that well, and alien-psychology isn't my degree.
 
Aye, healthy eldar reincarnations can technically remember their past life memories, and they remain basically the same person as before, but since the whole point of reincarnation is to grow as a person in ways that weren't possible in your previous life, they don't like to go delving into their past in too much detail since it kinda hampers their spiritual growth in their current incarnation. In between incarnations they remember everything, though. And they generally know pretty well what their past lives did.

At least, that's healthy reincarnation cycles at work. Closer to the Fall, things do get somewhat funkier.

AbZHz101 said:
I did have the inspiration material up the whole time in a separate tab.

And for the curious, Xihuitl is according to what I found a word for both Flame and Year. (Possibly even Turquoise).

I also do find it kinda interesting that if they get old enough, Azur and Aqshy Priests are nearly the same in color if not for the other magical give-aways like the heat haze and lightning about each respectively.
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Heck, I'm pretty sure I have it so that any type of skink priest eventually loses all its color and is distinguished from other types only by the magic hanging around it. Figure that's a cool aesthetic.

LittleWhiteMouse said:
@Xantalos
Just asking, but do we have any research that leads to a dead end? Meaning, it doesn't unlock a next project or multiple ones, like VEIST?
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Probably, but since I partially generate the tech tree as I go, there are admittedly a lot of branches. You'll notice that Secrets of the Fungus didn't directly unlock anything, for instance, or at least I think it didn't. Probably did make it possible to unlock said things in the future, though.
 
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