If it is one of the Tears of Isha, even if it doesn't contain his soul, it's a device to communicate with the Eldar gods.
Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]
- Thread starter Xantalos
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Fantasy
If it is one of the Tears of Isha, even if it doesn't contain his soul, it's a device to communicate with the Eldar gods.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Generally speaking this is what it does. Relic Priests let you get more progress out of your slannpower for research, at a cost of you not being able to exactly control what you get from it.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Hm......Well I'd want to focus on Spawning personally, less chance of something being researching we don't really want to focus on, and everything in the topic is high DC except for skink priests which we've almost finished. We only have what? Fire and Shadow priests left now?
So.....Hopefully they would research the Lizardmens souls or Slann Spawning, but Sacred Spawnings wouldn't be too bad, Spined Kroxigor would be good given the War efforts to help protect our Slann, but Earthblood Saurus is ehhh.
So.....Hopefully they would research the Lizardmens souls or Slann Spawning, but Sacred Spawnings wouldn't be too bad, Spined Kroxigor would be good given the War efforts to help protect our Slann, but Earthblood Saurus is ehhh.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
I'd like two additional clarifications, if you have time:
1. How does this handle overflow on individual Research Projects? IE if we put, say, 225 Slannpower on it in hopes of getting the Spear of Tlanxla, but instead got Geomantic Enchantments, what happens to the remaining Slannpower? I would assume that it overflows within the same category, but is this correct?
2. Assuming that the answer to 1 is that it overflows within the same category, how does it handle overflow on entire categories? IE, we can put a full 1835 Slannpower on Technology for an effective minimum of 3670 Slannpower. 3670 Slannpower is more than the entire Technology category, by a fair margin. What happens to the overflow here.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
1. Yeah, same category. If there was overflow I'd honestly probably nudge it over to the one the thread had said it'd wanted.
2. One of two things, I think - either the overflow goes towards another category (which I'd have you guys pick) or it goes towards unlocking stuff gated behind those projects.
I'd let you choose whichever of those priorities you wanted to pursue.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Argh, now I'm salty. Last turn we could have gotten all the Technology researched for less Slannpower than we spent.
- Location
- A pile of cheese
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Assuming that the answers to the below are all yes, we can do some interesting things with our research plans.
Technology: All current Technology Research Projects can be completed for 738 Slannpower
Gods: All current Gods Research Projects can be completed for 575 Slannpower
Enigmas: All current Enigmas Research Projects can be completed for 225 Slannpower
Xenos: We can only do one of the major Rangdan options and Burn Their Souls, meaning that the cost of this category varies based on what is randomly selected. This means it would cost either 1025 or 1600 Slannpower to close out this category. Notably, this would also solve the issue of the Rangdan randomly, hopefully minimizing Thread Salt.
Tablets: This category massively exceeds what can be done in a single turn. However, we can guarantee researching a single random aspect of the Plan with 1534 Slannpower.
Spawning: This category massively exceeds what can be done in a single turn, and contains the necessary researches to spawn Slann. In a best-case scenario we can start Spawning Slann in three turns, in a worst case scenario it would be unlikely to take more turns than it would manually. Also note that Xantalos has stated that in the case of overflow he will 'nudge' the overflow into the researches we want, making the best-case scenario more likely than it would be. Both scenarios, however, require full Slannpower to be put onto this, as partial research makes the time go up drastically.
1. Are the Great Plan researches are in the Tablets Category?
2. Are the Rangdan researches in the Xenos Category?
2a. If yes, can we do both phases of Traumatize The Oversoul with the same Consult The Relic Priests?
3. Is the only research currently in the Enigmas category The Stone?
4. Is Blessed Items solely a Divine Research, not shared with Technology?
5. Is Loqatl Spawning a Spawning Research?
6. Is it correct that Technology will not do Search Relic Vaults for a double randomized research?
Sorry for bombarding you, it's just that this mechanic is interesting and hasn't been explored until now.
Technology: All current Technology Research Projects can be completed for 738 Slannpower
Gods: All current Gods Research Projects can be completed for 575 Slannpower
Enigmas: All current Enigmas Research Projects can be completed for 225 Slannpower
Xenos: We can only do one of the major Rangdan options and Burn Their Souls, meaning that the cost of this category varies based on what is randomly selected. This means it would cost either 1025 or 1600 Slannpower to close out this category. Notably, this would also solve the issue of the Rangdan randomly, hopefully minimizing Thread Salt.
Tablets: This category massively exceeds what can be done in a single turn. However, we can guarantee researching a single random aspect of the Plan with 1534 Slannpower.
Spawning: This category massively exceeds what can be done in a single turn, and contains the necessary researches to spawn Slann. In a best-case scenario we can start Spawning Slann in three turns, in a worst case scenario it would be unlikely to take more turns than it would manually. Also note that Xantalos has stated that in the case of overflow he will 'nudge' the overflow into the researches we want, making the best-case scenario more likely than it would be. Both scenarios, however, require full Slannpower to be put onto this, as partial research makes the time go up drastically.
Just to confirm, it's the Slannpower of Relic Priests being consulted, not Slannpower consulting them, right? IE if one 5th Gen Slann consults 2 5th Gen Relic Priests, we get a minimum of 2 Slannpower randomly applied, correct? Additionally:
1. Are the Great Plan researches are in the Tablets Category?
2. Are the Rangdan researches in the Xenos Category?
2a. If yes, can we do both phases of Traumatize The Oversoul with the same Consult The Relic Priests?
3. Is the only research currently in the Enigmas category The Stone?
4. Is Blessed Items solely a Divine Research, not shared with Technology?
5. Is Loqatl Spawning a Spawning Research?
6. Is it correct that Technology will not do Search Relic Vaults for a double randomized research?
Sorry for bombarding you, it's just that this mechanic is interesting and hasn't been explored until now.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. I'm not going to vote for that. And given how hot a topic it is in thread, nobody else is gunna vote for it either, when there's a 33% chance their option wins, and a 67% chance it loses.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Yeah, that one's a bit of a stretch. I do think that more people would be willing to commit to leaving it up to lady luck and never speaking of it again than you think.
Nevertheless, all the others are perfectly reasonable calcs.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Each of them have at least three tiers. Beyond that it's hard to say for them, since the tiers are just a simplification of how many topics each category covers and penetrating deeper through the encryption the Old Ones put on them and whatnot.
Yep.
Yeah, they are.
I'm gonna say yes for the sake of not creating another category for them to choose from, and you technically could, but if it were chosen and completed by the Priests I think I'd give you guys the choice of whether or not you wanted to activate it.
Technically speaking interpreting the prophecy would also qualify, but the Relic Priests aren't not gonna be mysterious about it so yes, the Stone's technically the only thing in that category.
Yup.
Yup.
It can, actually - that's how you guys got Glyph Spheres in the first place.
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan WAAAAGH GET THIS ZOGGIN' SNAKE OFF ME GORK!
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
This makes using Relic Priests for Technology very unreliable. Put 3600 Slannpower on tech, and there's a chance that it does every single Tech available, a chance that the tech list explodes with random odds and ends, and a chance we end up with Tepok's codpiece or whatever.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
To be fair, 3600 slannpower would probably result in that thing being instantly researched anyway. Whatever overflow from finding the thing there was would go towards researching it in that case.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Removing the 'Explode the research list with random nonsense' option makes it much more palatable. However, this still means that using Relic Priests for Tech is inherently unreliable. With even the most variable of the other categories, you still know the list of techs that the Relic Priests can potentially hit, and can plan around that. This isn't really a complaint, mind, just me being sad that not everything in existence is a nail for me to use my new hammer on.
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Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
The chance of them searching the Vaults is smaller than the other options, but it's still there on account of the Tomb Collective not fully remembering what you do and don't have in the material world. You ask a First Gen something like "oh old froggy grandpa, can you please tell us about how to shoot our enemies into tiny bits' and he's as likely to rummage around in the ol' Relic Garage for a gizmo he had a few thousand years back that worked real good as he is to help you tinker with your current stuff.
- Location
- California
Or they go to a preexisting, but empty city.
Idk, I think inventing condominiums would be more efficient than suburban sprawl. That way we will have a plethora of couches in case of elven refugees.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
With modern technology, the most densely populated city in the world has a population of 41,515 people per square kilometer. So for the Lizardmen, exceeding that should be easy.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
500 kilometers per side is 250,000 square kilometers. That's a land area greater than that of, say, the state of Oregon. Or the entire United Kingdom.
A good reference point for a city built along the lines of Itza would be the classical/medieval Cambodian city of Angkor. This was a sprawling construct of geometrically aligned architecture that included massive intricately decorated temple complexes, enormous public works to control and divert the flows necessary for the survival of the populace, and even large-scale agriculture within the city limits so that the population would be sustainable. Sound familiar?
The extended greater urban agglomeration of Angkor took up roughly a thousand square kilometers and may have housed up to a million people. This provides a good rough baseline for what is sustainable using strictly non-fantastic medieval agriculture and human standards for feasible population density. In which case Itza, being sized for a population of forty million, would occupy about forty thousand square kilometers (a square 200 km on a side) or less depending on density. Much of that would be farmland, however, and the actual residential blocks could be much denser than that.
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So, in theory, unless Itza's Geomantic stuff takes up a massive amount of space to the point it's a net detriment, the population cap of Itza's current 500 kilometers per side should be 250 million for humans? I mean, even if we say a Skink takes up twice the resources of a human, with commensurate increases for the Saurus and Kroxigor to offset their far lower rate of spawning, that would leave have the current 12.5 million, 25 million and 2.5 million so that they account for 150 million. Hm, yeah, I could see the dinosaurs and special breeds, plus the Slann, taking up the remaining resources.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Certainly gives context for the statement in-story that an entire tribe of people could theoretically set up camp in one of the unused sections and never see so much as a scale their entire lives.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
When we 'level up' a city we do MASSIVE housing construction projects. Every one of our cities contains housing for far more lizardmen than they now occupy, ranging from hundreds of thousands of empty domiciles (for the small cities) to tens of millions (for Itza).
I'm hypothesizing that ALL lizardman cities are actually at 'suburb' density when measured as an average across the entire metropolitan area, simply because they engage in agriculture, and would generally need to do that inside the defensible perimeter of the extended city even on Mallus, let alone Mochantia. And because, well, they still walk places. Assuming the Old Ones didn't install magitek streetcars and light rail all over the place, it's most efficient to have the city's various industrial, commercial, residential, and agricultural (?) zones commingled.
"But... I am the great clown Pagliacci..."
Nix IS one of the most influential plan designers.
Even if he loses this round, he's significantly shaped the only other competing plan by influencing its writer. Some of the things he thought were important (like starting a god) are things I straight-up would never have put in there
And aside from being less convinced that blowing up the Ayacmanik as opposed to domesticate/uplift is a good idea, I think I agree in broad with Nix about most priorities.
I think this is correct. Basically, consulting Relic Priests is a way of saying "OK, you lose directed research, but you get double research points this turn."
If we're dealing with some specific practical emergency that demands the attention of the slann ("punch Fog Demon in the groin-equivalent with Mag 3 geomantic ritual," "bulldoze orks," "hey what's this suspiciously super-elf smelling magic rock,") then that's not helpful. If we're just generically trying to charge up the tech tree as fast as possible, it could be pretty great.
I mean, we could use just about everything on the tech tree except the 'Ayacmanik problem' projects where we have to pick one. The first and second generation Relic Priests might have a lot to tell us about infrastructure projects or the Old Ones' plans for interstellar travel and an astromantic web, for example.
I mean maybe, but on the other hand we might have wound up with a lot of slannpower on things we didn't want or that wouldn't be forseeably useful for the war effort.
On the other hand, if the tech tree explodes it'll be because we got a bunch of stuff from the tier above what we now have available. And ending up with Tepok's codpiece, if that's what happens, could be pretty goddamn effective. Remember that the slann have managed in roughly 20-25 years to reverse-engineer BOTH a personal relaxation chamber AND a giant goddamn bubble shield capable of sheltering whole armies out of the same random piece of industrial machinery that we didn't even know we'd be unlocking.
On turns where we aren't specifically planning to go to war and are just trying to get generically better at Important Shit, it's entirely possible that randomly blasting the tech tree with 3600 slannpower would actually yield pretty good results.
Eldar: "This couch is made of literally stone."
Saurus: "Remember what happened the last time your race complained about how things weren't luxurious enough?"
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Though notably, if that section of the tech-tree is small enough at the time, it's essentially a free boost with no downsides. For instance, The Stone is a free half-cost, and if we want to get Level One Divine Manifestations we can buy it and Blessed Items for less than it would normally cost. It would hold true for Xenos if we're willing to randomize the Rangdan solution, and entirely so after we deal with them. And for the Tablets section, it's currently effectively a massively reduced cost of the first section of the Plan we learn, at the cost of randomizing which we learn first.
Even for the Spawning section, which runs into real issues with randomization, by my count it would be faster to just as fast to use the Relic Priest option while figuring out how to spawn Slann than it would be to do it normally. And if it ends up being just as fast we end up with a bunch of 'free' techs.
That post was made when I was still assuming that 'look in the vaults' wasn't a valid result. Without that, it would have been a flat decrease in the effective slannpower needed to research all the Technology options rather than to do the Technological Research that we did last turn. This is somewhat misleading though, as last turn we researched all but two of the Technology Projects, with the remaining two representing only 600 Slannpower.
Note that while I don't like doing it for tech, that's only in comparison to the other categories. It's still a solid choice, it's just not basically a replacement to normal research outside of occasional lapses when we desperately need a specific tech on a specific turn.
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