- Location
- United States of America
Probably literally since the Romans have cannons.
Purple Phoenix Reborn (Constantinople ISOT)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Timeline
- Location
- Pacific NW
When the populace has reached a point where politics become important, that is the moment that Constantinople is no longer in basic survival mode. 
floppy_seal99
D-O-G-A-R-S DOGARS!
- Location
- snooping as usual
...did they find the Tetons?
- Location
- Pacific NW
Nope, the mountains on the eastern edge of the Central Valley are where the Cascades merge into the Sierra Nevada/Rocky Mountain ranges.
Now once they have enough people to farm that valley, Constantinople will have one of the most productive breadbaskets in the world.
Now once they have enough people to farm that valley, Constantinople will have one of the most productive breadbaskets in the world.
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
No, it's straight-up just the Sierra Nevada mountains. No Rockies, no Cascades. The Rockies don't go into California and the Cascades are way up north.
For the time being, though, the Romans are going to be filling up the Santa Clara, Sonoma, Napa, Salinas, and East Bay valleys. Plenty of excellent, very defensible farmland there, and plenty of interior waterways to move goods on.
- Location
- Pacific NW
Mount Lassen is part of the Cascade Range along with Mount Shasta. And the Cascades do merge into the Sierras at that northern section of the Central Valley.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
not at all well i would think!
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
I have the answer in one word.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In relation to possible war with the Mēxihco, do the Romans have access to the required resources for gunpowder manufacture? Where can they get saltpeter from? Guns and cannons are as great an advantage as steel over any hostile Americans.
Edit: Oh they have access to Nitratine deposits in OTL Death Valley Potassium nitrate - Wikipedia Nice.
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MutantRancor
[Suspected Sithspawn]
- Location
- Kashyyyk. I'm a Wookiee, can't you tell?
Even if they never find any deposits to mine, saltpeter can be made from urine. The real limiting factor is more likely to be the sulfur. And, of course, the bronze for the cannons.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Luckily for the Romans, there seem to be several sources for copper (and some sulfur in pyrite) in and around Elysium Copper mining in the United States - Wikipedia and even at least one tin source Tin Deposits in the United States - ScienceBase-Catalog They even have access to several volcanoes which should have some sulfur Category:Volcanic fields of California - Wikipedia
- Location
- The Old Dominion
While its easy to think of gunpowder weapons though canons often proved to be more valuable than hand guns or cavalry as major advantages it should be noted that another early major advantage for European colonists was armor especially steel armor at least though the mid-1600s though it would be largely phased out by 1700.
Even older types of armor that were often considered obsolete in western Europe warfare were found to be some use though that brings to mind just what type of armor were the Byzantines using at the time of the fall of Constantinople anyway?
Even older types of armor that were often considered obsolete in western Europe warfare were found to be some use though that brings to mind just what type of armor were the Byzantines using at the time of the fall of Constantinople anyway?
Dark Mage
Sanity is really overrated...
- Location
- Out of My Mind
The expected plate, scale, and maille.
Here's a pict of what could be found, along with Emperor Constantine.
- Location
- Italia
I do like this story. Kind of remind me of the Third Odyssey mod from Europa Universalis 4 but not too much because:
1. Every chapter shows a realistical approach, differently from the gamey expansion;
2. This story starts in the West Coast while the Mod starts in the East Coast/Washington D.C.;
3. This is an Isot during the War of 1453 while the mod starts with a massive Odyssey through the Atlantic and into the Americas in 1444.
What I am trying to say with this gibberish? I like this, a lot, and I hope it is continued with the same excellency it offers now.
Good work, man!
1. Every chapter shows a realistical approach, differently from the gamey expansion;
2. This story starts in the West Coast while the Mod starts in the East Coast/Washington D.C.;
3. This is an Isot during the War of 1453 while the mod starts with a massive Odyssey through the Atlantic and into the Americas in 1444.
What I am trying to say with this gibberish? I like this, a lot, and I hope it is continued with the same excellency it offers now.
Good work, man!
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
Just read this and i cant wait for more!
Sidestory: Early Explorers
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Sidestory I
Early Explorers of Elysium
Early Explorers of Elysium
I do not believe that anyone quite knew what to expect, when we explored our new home. Out of the foggy land that Constantinople rested, was a garden. A garden that could put Eden to shame, in its untouched glory. With the Natives as ill-inclined to permanent settlement as they were, the natural beauty of the land was untouched. I am certain my family and friends in Genoa would have paid a fortune, just to see this land. Great trees rise in forests the envy of any I have heard of. Strange animals and even stranger people live in these forests and along the shores of fair Elysium. I often find myself jealous, of the men granted the chance to truly explore this land. With my duties as the Strategos keeping me in Constantinople, I found my time to explore...limited. In my last years, I know I will never be able to join such august company. Such is the price to pay, for my skill in command and the trust of the Emperor.
Still, there are days I long to have joined Demir or Cappelli or any number of other explorers. These are the men who truly saved the Empire. I merely kept it together for them.
--Giovanni Giustiniani, 1471
In the heady days following the Event, the Roman Empire found itself in unexplored lands. The area of Elysium Bay, from the fog to the massive forests lining it, was truly alien. To those who considered it an Eden, they could point to the unspoilt lands and the primitive nature of the Ohlone people. To those who looked with hunger upon new land to colonize, they could see resources. Endless supplies of trees for buildings, of fish for hunting, and miles upon miles of free land. With the only Turks or Latins living inside Constantinople and- at least notionally -loyal to the Emperor and not foreign lords? There was no danger in these lands, from enemies of the Empire. The only danger was the unexplored nature of it.Even the Ohlone, themselves natives of the land, could only explain so much. Their people had lived on the shores of the Bay for longer than the oldest Elder could recall. They had seen no need to go elsewhere. Ohlone guides would prove useful, to be sure, yet the majority of exploration would be left to the brave men who struck out on Constantine's order. These early explorers, from all walks of life and all cultures in the Empire, would often become inscribed in history. Their names and feats passed into legend. These men, more than any other, truly brought the Empire into the light. They gave it new land to colonize. They proved that, even in such a strange time, that Romans of all cultures could work together. It didn't matter if one were Greek, Italian or Turkish.
That, more than anything, is where these men stand apart from later explorers.1 They gave the framework for later men to follow. There are too many to name, of course, as Constantine pushed to know the land. However, a few of the most important are listed here:
Demir the Turk: B. 1432, D. 1465 (Presumed)
Famous for his first contact with the Ramaytush people, Demir the Turk was a young man when the Relocation occurred. A common soldier under the command of Prince Orhan, in any other circumstances, his name would have been lost to history. As a mercenary, he was not a member of any Nobility. He was not a heroic figure akin to the great Greeks of old. Nor was he wealthy or influential among his comrades. A perfectly average Turkish soldier, in a position where he likely would have perished in the Siege.
Demir is remembered, to this day, due entirely to his presence at the first meeting between Roman and Ohlone. As a plainly hypocritical and biased gesture, the Italians leading his scout party believed that an 'uncivilized Turk' would be perfect to understand the language of the primitive people they had discovered. Demir had no more ability than any Roman, however, he became quick friends with the Ramaytush and was instrumental in translating their language. This friendly relationship continued with the scouts the Ohlone promised for expeditions. On these expeditions, the legend of Demir became codified.
'Demir is forever exploring and making friends for Rome. He's right there, in that city. In that man, holding a hand out to help a stranger to his feet. He's in the hunter in the forest, who saves a lost child. In the explorer meeting a new tribe. Demir the Turk is forever exploring, forever making friends, forever helping.'
Unfortunately, Demir's ultimate fate is lost to history. He was a member of the doomed Katopodis Expedition to the Chióni Vouná2 range, and very few records speak of the end of that expedition. None survived. As such, the legend of Demir has no true ending. Did he die in the Mountains? Did he choose to live among natives? No one truly knows. Yet, his legend persists among the Natives and those Romans descended from them and the original Turk mercenaries.
Angelo Cappelli: B. 1438, D. 1510
Angelo Cappelli, the Great Mariner, is famous for his voyages up and down the coast of Elysium. Hailing from Venice, he had been a young sailor aboard one of the Venetian warships caught in Constantinople during the Relocation. During the early days after the move, he had continued to serve in this role. It would only be when he was an adult, that he ended up in command of the Salamis. This ship, based upon Western European designs of Carrack 3, was the first proper ocean-going vessel in Roman service. In command of the Salamis, Cappelli would set out on his first voyage of discovery in 1468. There was no better man for this mission.
Cappelli was an adventurous soul, who put great faith in his crew and ship. He sailed to the South, on this first voyage. It was Cappelli, operating on little more than a hunch and trust in his crew, that would discover the location of the future port of Dragases. The sailor went ashore himself, exploring much of the land surrounding the city. It was here where the first evidence of natives outside of the Ohlone would be found.
However, it was when returning to his ship, that Cappelli would make his greatest discoveries.
It was sailing further down the coast, into what would eventually be discovered to be Mexica lands, that Cappelli found the first evidence of the people of Mēxihco. He, perhaps fortunately, did not go ashore. Instead, he simply recorded the location and returned to Constantinople. His reports would shape much of the desire to consolidate on Elysium, to prepare for contact. Cappelli's further voyages would, in some ways, be nearly as important. That, however, is for another time.4
Georgios Xiphias: B. 1480, D. 1544
If Demir is famous for his contact with natives, and Cappelli for his voyages of discovery, the Roman explorer Georgios Xiphias is famous for his adventures in the forests. In popular culture, he is the quintessential 'outdoorsman'. A man who spent much of his time exploring at the foothills of the Mountains and through the Valley. It was Xiphias, so the stories go, who hunted the first of the Elysium Brown Bears. The tale of that hunt resonates with many Romans to this day, and is a large part of why the Bear is so heavily featured in local folklore of the Valley. Xiphias, himself, downplayed the Hunt and said it was 'just another day on the job'.
For him, perhaps, it was.
Xiphias was responsible for much of the knowledge of the Valley. He is famous for, along with his Ohlone friends, mapping the land and creating some of the first settlements outside of Elysium Bay. It is said that Xiphias was always in the right place, at the right time, to protect these small villages from roaming wildlife. The stories tend to drift on if he used weapons or his bare hands.
It is well-known that the Xiphias Musket was one of the first designs for an easily usable firearm, though it would prove to be quite outdated compared to the European models when contact was made with colonizers. Xiphias and his muskets were a common sight on the frontier, from his teenage years, until his eventual passing of old age. Even this, unsurprisingly, was on his own terms. The famous hunter died in the woods, with his musket propped beside him, and no one but his closest friends around. It is said that he was, even then, preparing another expedition.
These three men, all of them, are just some of the many famous explorers of the Roman Empire. It would be impossible to cover them all in one setting, though it is certainly a valid task to undertake. Many of them will be covered at some point, to explain how the early expansion of the Empire progressed.
1. Later explorers, operating on an existing framework and support network, took rather fewer risks. This is not to downplay their own accomplishments, however, the early few were taking much greater risks and reaping much greater rewards.
2. Chióni Vouná roughly translates as 'snowy mountains'. The Spanish would call the mountains the 'Sierra Nevada' range, for much the same reason.
3. The Salamis, based on Genoese designs, was a small compared to many European exploration vessels. She was still very much a coastal vessel, though one that could make long enough voyages to explore much of the coast of Elysium and, indeed, western Arcadia.
4. Much as with Demir and First Contact with the Ohlone, Capelli will receive a chapter all his own. As will Xiphias.
(This one was...difficult. I decided to do a sidestory on some early explorers, in order to tide everyone over while I work out more of the details for the next proper bit. Which, hopefully, should take less time. Hopefully. >.>)
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Oof... yeah, an expedition to the Sierras would be a good way to get yourself and an entire expedition killed. Even today, few people, mostly avid outdoorsmen, venture beyond the corridors of civilization around the national parks and major highways. Vast swathes of the mountains are nearly pristine wilderness, as isolated and desolate as anything on Earth.
My favorite example of this is the Desolation Wilderness, an area of rugged granite peaks and pristine alpine lakes that's entirely bare granite through large swathes of the region.
And this is an area not far from the tourist areas of Lake Tahoe, one of the more well-trafficked parts of the mountains. Parts of the mountain range near Death Valley are so remote as to give even very experienced wilderness hikers the willies.
My favorite example of this is the Desolation Wilderness, an area of rugged granite peaks and pristine alpine lakes that's entirely bare granite through large swathes of the region.
And this is an area not far from the tourist areas of Lake Tahoe, one of the more well-trafficked parts of the mountains. Parts of the mountain range near Death Valley are so remote as to give even very experienced wilderness hikers the willies.
- Location
- Somewhere
This reminds me, how long do you think it would be until Rhomania is capable of trading with the Asian nations? They are a lot closer to them than the Europeans are.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- He/Him
LOL they're not closer. If anything they're about as far away as it's possible to be from Asia, on the other side of the world's biggest ocean. The Antipodes for Asia are in South America so the Americas are really halfway round the world from Asia. They likely won't even have ships that can make it across for at least another 100 years and have no reason to go that way. They've got plenty of room and resources to satisfy their needs for a long time. First old world contact will probably be with the Spanish in another 150-200+ years.
- Location
- Somewhere
Sorry for the mistake, I thought that the whole, going from Europe to East Asia would be longer since the Europeans had to circumnavigate Africa to reach Asia.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Europeans have the advantage of being able to make landfall in Africa and India. Or even Indonesia and such.
Going from Cali to China, there's only a bunch of islands. The Romans would have to discover those first, even after learning how to build big enough ships and navigate such large distances. It really is easier to stay home for them, at least, until Spain shows up.
Going from Cali to China, there's only a bunch of islands. The Romans would have to discover those first, even after learning how to build big enough ships and navigate such large distances. It really is easier to stay home for them, at least, until Spain shows up.
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Going north (via Alaska) might shorten the trip, but that's a lot of stops in mostly useless land.
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
1) it's against the prevailing currents and winds
2) the weather is bad, very bad. Fogs, storms.
It's the equivalent of the Iceland-Greenland sealane.
nkd1325
KNIGHT OF ORANGE
- Location
- AT HIS MAJESTY'S SIDE
As the others have said there is no way that's going to happen. The Pacific is immense and there are no islands between California and Hawaii so they'd either have to make a Columbus level gamble on an expedition or follow the coast up to the Aleutians and to Kamchatka before sailing down to Japan through very unfriendly weather.
Due to the position they're in its far more likely they begin trading with the various Mayan and Incan tribes with some trade with the Aztecs but that would get stymied by the whole live sacrifice thing.
Regardless trade is not going to be a priority due to the whole expanding into nearly virgin land that they're going to be doing for a while.