So the Byzantines are set to become the Empire west of the Rockies. This is likely to be a world where Eastern Orthodoxy and Greek are much more prominent than OTL. What are they going to call their new Empire once they establish a few more cities by next century and absorb more native tribes? You should try to find or make up some appropriate native words since the Byzantines are likely to call some landmarks by native-derived names.
The Pope in a few centuries is going to be rather gobsmacked.
===
"Hello, Patriarch of Rome."
"... I... assume you wish to speak of the Great Schism, Patriarch of Constantinopolis?"
"It would be nice. Seeing as God deemed fit to directly protect my seat."
"... I'm sure we can find accord and resolve the matter."
"I'm sure we will."
===
In other news, Christianity liable to get a lot of good press vis-à-vis Islam when it becomes evident that God intervened
directly to save the City of World's Desire.
The Pope in a few centuries is going to be rather gobsmacked.
===
"Hello, Patriarch of Rome."
"... I... assume you wish to speak of the Great Schism, Patriarch of Constantinopolis?"
"It would be nice. Seeing as God deemed fit to directly protect my seat."
"... I'm sure we can find accord and resolve the matter."
"I'm sure we will."
===
In other news, Christianity liable to get a lot of good press vis-à-vis Islam when it becomes evident that God intervened
directly to save the City of World's Desire.
Well I suppose that would help with the ancient disputes with Rome and the other Petrine Sees over Constantinople's legitimacy to even exist as a patriarchy or to be second only to Rome in honor, hard to top divine intervention after all that kicked off schisms even before the famous great schism.
Don't know how it would settle the religious/political debate over papal supremacy versus Rome being a first among equals as.
Emperor Constantine was a man of many virtues, and many flaws. He was only human. There is a certain tendency to present the man as a second messiah, chosen by God himself to lead the Roman people towards Elysium. The fact he was the reigning Basileus when the City was relocated feeds into this myth. He had prayed for salvation and been given it, complete with a new land for his people. It was, and is, easy to see him as an almost mythological figure due to this. Doing so forgets that Constantine had his share of mistakes and flaws. He was no more a perfect man than any other King or Emperor. He simply had the good fortune to be the ruler at the time...
--George Jameson, University of Oxford, 1943
Constantine Dragases Palaiologos, later rendered as Constantine XI by European historians. A man who had come late to his throne, after a conflict with his younger brother over his right to it. At forty-three years of age on taking the throne, Constantine was not a young man. He was a man who, in his youth, had fought many conflicts. With Latins and Turks alike. A man who would do anything to restore Rome to her past glories, even if it were beyond the resources he had. He had felt the joy of victory over the Latins in Morea. The sting of defeat to the Turks in the same place. Constantine, when he took the throne, was shaped by these events. A patriot to the end.
It was his desire to see his nation strengthened, and his dislike for the Turks after the disastrous invasion of Athens1, that almost brought ruin upon the Empire. Constantine was not a man who reacted well to slights, real or perceived, when they came from the Turk. When the Sultan Mehmed came to the throne, Constantine saw an impetuous boy who was obsessed2 with nothing more than the destruction of everything the Emperor loved. Constantine did not react favorably. His reaction was simple. If Mehmed persisted in his desire to take Constantinople, Constantine would free Prince Orhan3 and support him as a rival contender to the Sultanate. There is some argument if this decision was a major mistake on Constantine's part, or merely an excuse that Mehmed was looking for.
Regardless of if Mehmed was obsessed with the City to the point that nothing would sway him, the threat of releasing Orhan was all he needed to declare any and all agreements with the Romans null and void. Thus, began the Siege of Constantinople.
Constantine gained much respect from his people and some in the West, for standing up to the Turk in such a way. He also gained the anger of Mehmed, in a way that few others had. It is widely believed, though impossible to state for sure, that Mehmed's offer to allow Constantine to rule Morea in exchange for Constantinople was a ruse. A temporary reprieve, only to allow the Ottoman armies to eventually march into Greece and string the entire Palaiologos dynasty from a tree. Certainly, Mehmed gave no quarter in his attack on the City. Constantine rallied his people and lead them as few Emperors ever had.
Yet, it was not enough.
Mehmed's attacks were ever closer to breaking the walls, with each passing day. It is widely believed in contemporary sources- Giustiniani's From Certain Death to Salvation a notable example -that the Roman forces were close to breaking. Constant repairs, constant attacks and constant wakefullness were draining the men. It was only a matter of time until a wall broke and was taken, or until there were no men left. Even Constantine, despairing of his chances, had resigned himself to a glorious final stand. The Latins were not coming.
It was that moment, as we now know, that God spoke.
For Emperor Constantine, it was a miracle to surpass all miracles. His prayers had been answered, and he had been chosen by God to lead his people to a new life. It was both a blessing and an immense pressure. In the journals that have survived, Constantine confessed to the fact that this pressure nearly broke him, at times. His miraculous survival- and that of his City and Empire -had placed a unique task upon him. To take what he had been given, and make certain that Rome would survive in this strange New World. It was not an easy burden to bear. For Constantine, despite everything, had never been a truly egotistical or prideful man.
Yet now, his people worshiped him as if he were the Second Coming of Christ. Perhaps, not quite to that extent, to be truthful.
However, he was still seen as proof of divine blessing and providence. He knew that he, and his line, would be revered for as long as Constantinople and Rome endured. It was this knowledge that prompted him to take risks he wouldn't have taken. To send even the Turks of Orhan out to find other civilizations. To allow the Ramaytush into his City. Into his Palace itself. He could hardly afford to fail. If this was a land given by God, and if he was chosen to lead his people, he must accept that he would lead all his people.
Roman, Turk, Italian, and now...the Natives of this new land. If they were truly in Eden, then he was destined and anointed to lead all people who lived in this land.
And so, Constantine would bring the Ramaytush and their neighbors into the Empire. It was difficult. Even past the language barriers- and the need to convert them to Christianity -the Ohlone people, as a whole, had no concept of Kings or Empires. Promises of metal and stone housing meant little to semi-nomadic tribes. Rome had limited ability to force the issue as well. Were it not for Constantinople herself, a true sign of an act of some divine figure, it was probable the Ohlone would merely have moved to new lands. The presence of the City and the earnest belief by Constantine that it was his burden to lead these people, were the only reasons that the Ohlone would integrate relatively easily into Roman society.
Even so, many would die of disease. Many more would be resistant to giving up their traditional beliefs. It was not an easy task or a quick one.
Constantine took to this task with an almost manic fervor, once the shock of the Relocation had worn off. He worked tirelessly to integrate the Ohlone- and the Italians and Turks -into Roman society. He truly believed that it was his divine duty, once the task had become apparent to him. In the waning years of his life- for Constantine was not a young man -he spent much of his effort on these duties. It is entirely probable that his focus on his Burden prevented him from finding a wife in time to produce an heir. His journals certainly indicate as much, with an almost resigned tone when the topic came up. He knew his age and mortality, and he knew he would not produce a child. Not if he were to also focus on the people and the City.
In the twilight days of his reign, Constantine declared that his elder nephew would take his place. Alexios Palaiologos4, himself a much younger man, would be the heir to Holy Constantine.
With this established, and the knowledge that his people would follow anything he proclaimed, Constantine would retire to his Palace in his last few years. He spent much time with his journals, his fears and hopes. Even more planning expansions to the City and Empire. Choosing leaders for expeditions further down the coast and inland from Elysium Bay. Writing his regrets for attempting to unify his Church with that of the Pope, when it had brought no aid. Giving instructions to the Patriarch on how to best convert the Ohlone and any others they should find.
It was during one of these sessions that Constantine passed peacefully. He would be discovered by a servant, bent over his desk as if still working tirelessly.
The image of an Emperor who never gave up, who never stopped working, who had lead his people through the worst and best of times? This image has become the legacy of Saint Constantine Dragases. Many churches and streets have been built in his honor. The port of Dragases was named after his second surname, that of his beloved mother.5 Constantine's image decorates many buildings and has become a revered part of Roman society.
Perhaps his greatest legacy, however, is his effort to integrate the Ohlone. His policies of tolerance and paternalism would serve Rome well, in the coming days.
Saint Constantine Dragases Palaiologos
Emperor of the Romans
1405-1474
1. While Despot of Morea, Constantine lead an invasion of the Latin Duchy of Athens. While the invasion itself was successful in many ways, it brought down the attention of the then-Sultan (Murad II) upon Morea. Constantine and his brothers lost the resulting conflict, though they avoided capture. It is probable this event haunted Constantine for the rest of his life, looking at how he reacted to Mehmed.
2. Mehmed was obsessed with conquering Constantinople. It was such an obsession, that the first thing he did upon taking the throne, was start planning how to take the City. The 'Carthage Myth' is generally seen in Europe, prior to the rediscovery of Constantinople, as a symptom of this obsession. Mehmed couldn't take the City, so he destroyed it in a fit of rage. To those who believed his stories and the Myth, it was all too easy to believe.
3. Orhan was a cousin of Mehmed, and a potential claimant to the Sultanate. In the aftermath of the Relocation, he became the leader of the Turkish community inside Constantinople. With only a few hundred men to his name and the love Constantine had from his people, Orhan remained a fairly- if unhappily -loyal servant of the Roman throne until his own death, a few years before Constantine.
4. Alexios, here, is the original Greek name (though an original creation) of one of the Palaiologos brothers captured by Mehmed, OTL.
5. OTL San Diego.
(For this one, I chose to focus on Constantine. I will write a little side story from his Journals later on. For now, I chose to continue along the route I had started, and focus on him after focusing on the ISOT, initial exploration, and Constantinople)
Man, imagine a life defined by God granting your prayer in such an open and public way. It's a huge thing to live up to. Then again, given how he purportedly died in the OTL Constantine XI was probably a man built to live up to the role as best he could.
That was an enjoyable update. Constantine was the best man for the role, and he fulfilled his responsibility to the best of his ability. Definitely a man worthy of sainthood.
Also, part of me couldn't help but giggle at how he suffered the same fate as Gilgamesh (Caster) in the Babylonia arc of Fate/Grand Order: Dying from overwork.
Perhaps his greatest legacy, however, is his effort to integrate the Ohlone. His policies of tolerance and paternalism would serve Rome well, in the coming days.
Ah, good. Despite being Orthodox, they probably realized the best way to convert polytheistic peoples: Just tell them that if they add this 'new god' to their ceremonies and perform certain prayers, they get special benefits. Then you start having your priests be advisors to leaders, the local women advising their men to convert, and extend aid to the poor and downtrodden.
It worked for the pagans of northern Europe, it'll probably work here. Probably.
I'll admit, I debated with myself quite a bit on that one. If they would actually make him a Saint or not (since that's not exactly an easy thing to achieve). In the end, it seemed like if anyone in post-ISOT Rome would get Sainthood, it would be him.
The myth about dying of old age being extraordinary in the past is that the average age was being dragged down so much by infant mortality (rates like one quarter of all children dying before the age of 5 were normal).
The myth about dying of old age being extraordinary in the past is that the average age was being dragged down so much by infant mortality (rates like one quarter of all children dying before the age of 5 were normal).
Where did you hear that? Keep in mind that even if the median age of death (for those who survived past 5 y/o) was under 50, that still means half the population lived longer lives.
and having him go to 69 and still be somewhat active even more rare. most rulers would have told there heir to take over and then step back.
My impression was that rulers stepping back was very rare, practically unknown. If they were obviously infirm that may be forced to let their heir take over, but other than that they ruled until they died.
I agree that being able to continue ruling at age 69 would be quite rare prior to the development of modern sanitation and other improvements in medicine.
look i got no stats or anything to back me up on this.
if you say that halve lived to be 50 ish ( not counting the wars. sickness, murders and stress) then thats cool.
from the history i always got. that said 40 likely, 50 maybe if lucky but 60 and above was rare!
now i could be totally wrong about that, its not like i have data on that anywhere.
thats just stuff i been told.
and while nobility had it better with say housing/food and general clean housing all the others things could build up fast.
then again if your seen as the second coming of christ (or at least some thing close too it) a lot of ppl would have good reason to not kill you and keep you alive.
still 69 years old i know plenty of modern humans that do not get that far in live.
still nice to know the man was a hard working, respectful and respected leader who died working doing the best he could.
I'm not saying that because I don't have any stats either, I was asking if you do and pointing out some of the hidden pitfalls in the statistics. Another issue I'll note is that IIRC the numbers tended to vary a LOT between locations and relatively short timeframes based on all sorts of factors, and there isn't an agreed upon method to normalize those factors.
While he was still 'ruling' in his twilight years, he had basically retired entirely to his personal home and personal work. He left most of the day-to-day stuff to Alexios, and spent his time (largely) working on his journals with the odd other things planned out as well. He wasn't, by any means, doing any sort of strenuous stuff.
I have the strangest imaginings of a future where New World Rome is under threat by nuclear war or something and the city teleports to a livable cave in Enceladus.
I've had this idea since the city translocation post. Deeply tempted to write an Omake now that my finals are done, but I might save it until after all the other internet writing I keep being too busy to finish.
Is it fine if I do end up adding something bizarre?
Here is an article by an archaeologist with stats:
Article:
Did Ancient People Die Young? Many of us believe our ancestors lived much shorter lives than we do. Cutting-edge archaeology shows otherwise.
You might have seen the cartoon: two cavemen sitting outside their cave knapping stone tools. One says to the other: "Something's just not right—our air is clean, our water is pure, we all get plenty of exercise, everything we eat is organic and free-range, and yet nobody lives past 30."
This cartoon reflects a very common view of ancient lifespans, but it is based on a myth. People in the past were not all dead by 30. Ancient documents confirm this. In the 24th century B.C., the Egyptian Vizier Ptahhotep wrote verses about the disintegrations of old age. The ancient Greeks classed old age among the divine curses, and their tombstones attest to survival well past 80 years. Ancient artworks and figurines also depict elderly people: stooped, flabby, wrinkled.
This is not the only type of evidence, however. Studies on extant traditional people who live far away from modern medicines and markets, such as Tanzania's Hadza or Brazil's Xilixana Yanomami, have demonstrated that the most likely age at death is far higher than most people assume: It's about 70 years old. One study found that although there are differences in rates of death in various populations and periods, especially with regard to violence, there is a remarkable similarity between the mortality profiles of various traditional peoples.
So it seems that humans evolved with a characteristic lifespan. Mortality rates in traditional populations are high during infancy, before decreasing sharply to remain constant till about 40 years, then mortality rises to peak at about 70. Most individuals remain healthy and vigorous right through their 60s or beyond, until senescence sets in, which is the physical decline where if one cause fails to kill, another will soon strike the mortal blow.
So what is the source of the myth that those in the past must have died young? One has to do with what we dig up. When ancient human remains are found, archaeologists and biological anthropologists examine the skeletons and attempt to estimate their sex, age, and general health. Markers of growth and development, such as tooth eruption, provide relatively accurate age estimates of children. With adults, however, estimates are based on degeneration.
Slight time skip this time, though we're still in Constantine's reign:
Chapter 5
The Roman Empire in 1463
In the first decade of life in Elysium, the Roman Empire was a state in flux. Later historians make a point that the Empire had been functionally reduced to Constantinople, even when in Europe. This is not inaccurate, as the Morean Despots were functionally independent of the Empire. However, the Empire still controlled trade through the Bosporus. It was still connected to Europe and the markets therein. There was a certain respect afforded to the City, even if most in Western Europe considered it the 'Empire' of the Greeks. The Patriarch was still the nominal 'First Among Equals' in the Eastern Church. An Empire in a City it may have been, Constantinople still had the potential to prosper, were the Turks to leave it be.
Following the Relocation, this was not the case. The Roman Empire had indeed been reduced to a single, underpopulated and ruined, City. They were still the equal of any city in Arcadia1 and more advanced than any civilization they could feasibly encounter. Constantinople was still in ruins. Demographically, the Romans were not able to take advantage of their new land. Sixty-Five Thousand Romans- it was rather hard to make distinctions between Greeks, Italians and Turks after the Relocation -were not enough to expand rapidly. Even policies put in place by Constantine to encourage expansion could only do so much. Even a relieved baby boom could only do so much. This is why the policy of integration was so important...
--- 'From the Dardanelles to Elysium', Georgios Galanis, 1960
Upon arrival in 1453, Constantinople was a ruined city. A shadow of its former glory. Empty of many of its previous inhabitants, and cut off from all the trade it had thrived on. A city that, in many circumstances, would have struggled to survive.
Fortunately for those who called the City home, it was not many cities. With enough farmland inside the walls to sustain the existing population until more could be created, it gave less of a sense of urgency to expansion. As the population inevitably grew, it was simple to move farmland beyond the Theodosian Walls and reclaim land for housing. The relative friendliness of the Ohlone people aided this effort immensely. Constantine's policy of integration allowed the Empire to expand relatively painlessly, down the peninsula to the south of the City. This expansion, the primary thrust for much of Constantine's early reign in Elysium, was critically important for the Empire.
Constantinople had arrived in the New World with sixty-five thousand souls. A pittance of the many hundreds-of-thousands the City had held at her peak, however, still more than it had possessed prior to Mehmed's siege. Many of these refugees, Greek and Italian alike, had little to their names. They had fled into the City to escape the Turk, many hoping they may go home when the siege concluded. Their homes no longer existed. While it was certainly possible to house them in previously ruined homes within the Theodosian Walls, many of these refugees desired lives outside the City. They had lived in rural homes for a reason, should they be confined within the walls?
Had the Ohlone been at all threatening- as other Natives would later prove to be2 -the Emperor would likely have forbade them leaving Constantinople. However, the Ohlone proved remarkably non-violent and accepting of the Romans. Many were eager to learn about their new neighbors, and welcomed the former-refugees into their land. For as much of 'their land' as any could be. The Ohlone, as a people, were migratory. They had their defined borders between groups. The Ramaytush, in particular, being the closest to Constantinople. However, these borders were rarely more than a hunting denomination, and there were rarely enough Natives inside the territories to overcrowd them. In fact, for much of the first decade in Elysium, there was more land than people. Even inside Ohlone 'territory'.
The first outbreaks of disease amongst the Natives only emptied the land further.
It came as a rude surprise to Roman and Ohlone alike, when the first visitors returned home sick. Not all. Those who did, however, were ill beyond all comprehension. Romans were not unfamiliar with the effects of disease. The Black Death was not far out of cultural memory. The strange thing about the Natives, was how relatively mundane diseases crippled them. Many Ohlone died before anyone in power realized what was happening. To the credit of Constantine and the Romans, efforts were rapidly put in place to attempt to help the Natives. Many more would have died- and this would indeed happen, in European colonies -had this effort not been made.
However, the mass deaths still heavily damaged Ohlone society. Those who survived were easier to integrate, perhaps, due to smaller numbers and weakened leadership. As well as the honest attempts by the Roman population to aid the survivors. Regardless, this was but the first taste of how vulnerable the Natives truly were.
It has been said, in myth and legend, that Emperor Constantine wept over the body of an Ohlone child brought before him. Wept for the primitive people that he saw as his subjects. He saw his Burden given by God himself, as protecting these people and showing them the light of Christ and Roman civilization. To see them dying like this? It is not hard to believe that something similar did, in all actuality, happen. Though no one knows for sure.
By 1463, through a combination of movement outside the City and integration of the remains of the Ohlone populace, the Roman population had ballooned. Modern estimates tend to fall around one-hundred thousand, with some debate on if this is too generous.3 This population boom was fueled by a desire to explore the new land and find resources for the City. Constantinople, even with the many ruined structures to strip, did not have an endless supply of gold or iron. The Ohlone, once communication became possible, spoke of other tribes. None so advanced as the Romans, yet, other tribes nonetheless. Constantine, in the twilight of his life, pushed for expeditions to continue. Mapping the Bay was not enough. Efforts to explore inland and down the coast would be needed, though the former would prove to be more viable for the short term.
The mighty ocean that lapped at the coast was massive. Land may have stretched as far to the North and South as the eye could see, however, the Romans did not possess ships designed for such long voyages. With the need for experienced sailors and explorers closer to home, expeditions into the Ocean were lower priority. After all, iron was more important than exploring a wide sea.
This focus on the inland would soon pay dividends. Early Roman explorers- almost universally Italian or Turkish, with some adventurous Greeks -came across a vast valley. Grasslands and marshes stretched as far as the eye could see, with mountains raised into the sky in the distance. Mountains that were both familiar and alien all the same. Constantinople hadn't been sent to a place completely unfamiliar to the Romans. As well, mountains were potentially rich in resources that would be useful for the City and the Empire, moving forward. While direct control was likely impossible until the population had further expanded, these mountains would in later years, become critically important to the Roman Empire.
As of 1463, however, the direct control of the Empire was still largely limited to Ohlone lands and other areas around the Bay. No tribes nearby could militarily stand against Rome, even with a bare six thousand or so professional soldiers. The bottleneck remained population and Constantine's unwillingness to risk his City again. Direct control of the Empire was limited, while indirect control still focused on the area around the Bay. Explorations and expeditions continued, well past this territory. However, they would not be able to truly claim the land for some time yet. Claims were made, yet, not enforced.
The Empire was safe and secure, it merely needed more time to grow and recover from centuries of foreign depredation. When the time was right, and the population had restored some of its former greatness, Constantinople and her Empire would spread wings over much of this new land...
1. Elysium is the name for the area the Romans initially settled. The Bay and the surrounding area for hundreds of miles (roughly OTL California, though obviously not exactly this). Arcadia is the Roman name for the Continent they found themselves on, what European settlers would later name 'North America'. There was, in the aftermath of the Relocation, a certain desire to appeal to classical thought in naming their new home. Arcadia, as a utopia of harmony with nature, was seen as befitting the society of Natives that Rome first encountered. However, Eden was a step too far, even for Constantine.
2. The Romans would have rude awakenings, when encountering tribes beyond the peaceful Ohlone. The peoples of Mēxihco, in particular, would be a shock to the entire Roman Empire.
3. It is hard to truly judge the Roman population, in the days before proper Censuses. 100,000 is generally seen as the accepted figure, taking into account the Post-Relocation baby booms and the integration of the Ohlone and other Natives around the Bay. Even with this, there is some argument on if this figure is too generous.
The Map is a work in progress. A map maker I am not, and I improvised a fair bit on Constantinople itself. The areas of Roman control are something I debated quite heavily with myself on. In the end, I figure something about this extent is likely after a decade. The Roman control is hardly ironclad, considering the lack of population. However, it is hundreds of miles away from any real Native threats, so the loose control is less of an issue than it otherwise might be.
It has been said, in myth and legend, that Emperor Constantine wept over the body of an Ohlone child brought before him. Wept for the primitive people that he saw as his subjects. He saw his Burden given by God himself, as protecting these people and showing them the light of Christ and Roman civilization. To see them dying like this? It is not hard to believe that something similar did, in all actuality, happen. Though no one knows for sure.
To the more religiously minded, and there'd be alot of them given the time period, there'd be something... well, given how often sin was considered linked to real-world misfortune, you'd think there'd be a word that links real and metaphorical comparisons.
To the people who'd consider this an Eden, or even just a pure land devoid of the old world's sins, this'd be, for lack of a better term, defilement. The sin of those born guilty tainted the innocent and unknowing. It'd drive up sympathy, but also the drive to convert the locals and thus save their souls. And also moralize the population itself a bit.
This focus on the inland would soon pay dividends. Early Roman explorers- almost universally Italian or Turkish, with some adventurous Greeks -came across a vast valley. Grasslands and marshes stretched as far as the eye could see, with mountains raised into the sky in the distance. Mountains that were both familiar and alien all the same. Constantinople hadn't been sent to a place completely unfamiliar to the Romans. As well, mountains were potentially rich in resources that would be useful for the City and the Empire, moving forward. While direct control was likely impossible until the population had further expanded, these mountains would in later years, become critically important to the Roman Empire.
1. Elysium is the name for the area the Romans initially settled. The Bay and the surrounding area for hundreds of miles (roughly OTL California, though obviously not exactly this). Arcadia is the Roman name for the Continent they found themselves on, what European settlers would later name 'North America'. There was, in the aftermath of the Relocation, a certain desire to appeal to classical thought in naming their new home. Arcadia, as a utopia of harmony with nature, was seen as befitting the society of Natives that Rome first encountered. However, Eden was a step too far, even for Constantine.
2. The Romans would have rude awakenings, when encountering tribes beyond the peaceful Ohlone. The peoples of Mēxihco, in particular, would be a shock to the entire Roman Empire.
As someone who hangs out with CK2 nerds a bit too much, the Aztecs would pretty damn terrifying to face. But I'm still looking forward to seeing how it all blows up.
By 1463, through a combination of movement outside the City and integration of the remains of the Ohlone populace, the Roman population had ballooned. Modern estimates tend to fall around one-hundred thousand, with some debate on if this is too generous.3
3. It is hard to truly judge the Roman population, in the days before proper Censuses. 100,000 is generally seen as the accepted figure, taking into account the Post-Relocation baby booms and the integration of the Ohlone and other Natives around the Bay. Even with this, there is some argument on if this figure is too generous.
This is a legit point: Medieval scholars from all walks of life had no damn clue how to count large numbers of people. The best accounts I've seen were nerds among scholars taking old Roman manuals on foraging and how much supplies all aspects of an army on the march needed and then using geographical and archeological records to figure out what the land along a route could actually support.
