Purple Phoenix Reborn (Constantinople ISOT)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Timeline
- Location
- Italia
I really love this story and I'm glad you're back. I can't wait to read the next chapter...
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
I really kind of dig that interpretation actually.
On the topic of religion, I honestly think Native American & Inca ancestor worship/veneration could survive quite easily in the Romanized Americas since it could be tied into the Christian concept of Sainthood.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
The Inca version was extremely politically inconvenient since no dead emperors were actually considered legally dead and factions claiming to speak for them could wield power through that avenue.
there's little chance that would go over well as a matter of realpolitik.
Hooray! Sky Returns!
I am not surprised that you couldn't find good sources for the wedding traditions of an obscure culture from 500 years ago. Go Figure!
As a side note I would like to add that during the Medieval period in Europe, linen armor known as 'gambeson' was extremely common, far more so than leather armor, which was extremely rare in Europe during that period. It was surprisingly effective against stabbing swords and projectile weapons as well, depending on the thickness. I can absolutely see they probably would not like wearing what is effectively a heavy coat in the jungles of Mexico though! Also the widespread use of leather in the Roman Army could hint at a booming economy and great economic prosperity, as well as large herds having developed. Shields during the Medieval period were usually wooden, and had painted designs or sometimes a metal facing. Again these are surprisingly effective and very sturdy, depending on the thickness and type of wood. I can see the Purepecha absolutely loving European shield design.
Very excited to see what comes on after this. If you have trouble I suggest skimming over the ceremony itself where necessary and focusing more on whatever celebrations or legends or such come after it.
I am not surprised that you couldn't find good sources for the wedding traditions of an obscure culture from 500 years ago. Go Figure!
As a side note I would like to add that during the Medieval period in Europe, linen armor known as 'gambeson' was extremely common, far more so than leather armor, which was extremely rare in Europe during that period. It was surprisingly effective against stabbing swords and projectile weapons as well, depending on the thickness. I can absolutely see they probably would not like wearing what is effectively a heavy coat in the jungles of Mexico though! Also the widespread use of leather in the Roman Army could hint at a booming economy and great economic prosperity, as well as large herds having developed. Shields during the Medieval period were usually wooden, and had painted designs or sometimes a metal facing. Again these are surprisingly effective and very sturdy, depending on the thickness and type of wood. I can see the Purepecha absolutely loving European shield design.
Very excited to see what comes on after this. If you have trouble I suggest skimming over the ceremony itself where necessary and focusing more on whatever celebrations or legends or such come after it.
Norseman
Entirely Wholesome
Mesoamericans used cotton armour, pretty much the same thing, and the spaniards found it far more comfortable than their own metal armour.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Unless I'm seriously mistaken on my Native American Arcadian History, Cahokia was abandoned a solid century or so before the Romans showed up. Barring word and technology from Rome spreading and making the Natives go 'huh, we should rebuild our cities', I don't suspect Cahokia itself to have much influence. Other than an architectural curiosity, since they might see it sooner than Europeans historically did. But in general...yeah.
Mississippian Culture? Perhaps. Cahokia? Almost certainly not going to have any real impact.
Mississippian Culture? Perhaps. Cahokia? Almost certainly not going to have any real impact.
What even worst,all that courts need sources to exist - usually some province was destined to take care of one dead king.As a result,Incas conqered all countries which could be conqered - and even without european would fall,becouse there would be more and more courts to feed from the same amount od resources.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
True, the Incan empire was also very new, and still had a lot of internal divisions that would likely lead to that scheme causing fissions between provinces into separate successor states over time. The Civil War may have been caused by smallpox from Europeans, but the internal rifts it was fought over - principally the northern coastal lowland parts of the empire against the southern altiplano parts - was very much a case of regional tensions festering that would have errupted eventually and torn the empire apart even had no intervention been done.
The sparking point where regional tensions erupt into conflict wouldn't be Atahualpa and Huascar in a ware of succession ITTL, but it'll still happen sooner or later.
Demetrios and Shanarani
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Sidestory: Demetrios and Shanarani
On the one hand, I understand why Father made such a spectacle of my marriage. Even his own had been less extravagant and drawn less attention. Perhaps that is due to the relative prosperity of my time and the relative lack of his. Perhaps. I believe it has much more to do with perceptions. Father married a member of the petty nobility and that was 'expected'. It was an Imperial Wedding with all the pomp and circumstance to be expected, or as much as could be spared, as I'm given to understand. My own wedding? It is true that it was not an Imperial Wedding in the same way as Heraklonas marrying his own bride. Nor in the way of my Father before us.
It was different. It was the first wedding tying our future to that of another state in well past living memory. My marriage with Shanarani was one of love, but Father turned it into one of pragmatism. Even if our children were never in line to the throne in Constantinople nor that of Tzintzuntzan, the very bonding of our bloodlines would tie our states together. I understand the political opening this gave, even as it frustrates me. Though there are worse fates, I suppose, than to be used like this. At least I was able to marry the one I chose.
I have the feeling that Shanarani would have it no other way. And it is a fool who stands in her way.
-Journals of Demetrios Palaiologos, Collected by Imperial Museum of Tzintzuntzan.
Such events had, regrettably, become far rarer in Elysium. Resources had been scarce for all involved, from the Emperor to the Church to the average Roman on the street. The spread of Roman society through the Great Valley[1] had alleviated some of the issues, though far from all. Money was tight and the population far more focused on more immediate concerns than on lavish ceremonies. This had suited the Church just fine, as they had been consumed with question after question over where to move forward towards. Such an event had religious implications that, no matter Saint Constantine's efforts, would not be easy to solve. It would occupy the thoughts of many in the Church for many years.
Though that is, perhaps, a story for another time.
For the first truly major event, discounting the memorial and burial of Saint Constantine himself, would be the marriage of his Grandnephew. Alexios had declared, in his aging wisdom, that the marriage of his younger son be an event for all to see. That the great Hagia Sophia be used for a ceremony the likes that Constantinople had not seen in decades. It was a pragmatic move more than one of love for his younger child. The people had little care for the distant Purépecha in the grand scheme. Those who had family in Demetrios Allagia, perhaps, cared more than others.
The average Roman on the street cared nothing for heathens that might as well have been on the other side of the planet, for how close they were. It just did not matter or change anything in their own lives, unless they intended to trade with the Purépecha or settle on the frontier. This has already been established in their reactions to the return of the Expedition in the first place.
Alexios, despite his failing body, saw this and knew it would not be allowed to continue. For all his, understandable, caution and retraction of Roman expeditions...he understood one thing. If the Romans were to remain friends with the Purépecha in the long term, the people of the Empire would need a reason to care. A reason to want to see the distant natives as friends just like the closer ones were. What better way to do that than to symbolically tie the two Imperial Families together? The people still remembered Saint Constantine and if Alexios or Demetrios were not as well beloved as their Uncle had been, their family still carried great spiritual weight with the people.
So it was decided.
Despite the protests of Demetrios that it was using his wedding as a political tool, Alexios would convinced the Ecumenical Patriarch to allow the usage of the Hagia Sophia for a lavish ceremony, the likes of which had not been seen in a century. It mattered little that Shanarani was not Roman and, in some tales, yet to even convert to Orthodoxy. This was a practical move intended to tie the two states together. Alexios, father of Roman law, was nothing if not a pragmatic man. If he had to use his son as a tool, he would. Even as he professed his love for Demetrios and ensured that, if nothing else, the ceremony would be held in a way to show that.
Just because it was pragmatic, it did not mean it was not done out of love as well.
Regardless, the wedding would become something that all in Constantinople were invited to view. Many, from all walks of life- Romans lacking in entertainment, Ohlone curious about the function -would descend on the Church and surrounding streets. It was a spectacle unlike anything that most, save for the very oldest of old, had seen. In this regard, Alexios would be proven correct. It was the perfect distraction, the perfect binding of the two states, for it was symbolic. The marriage of Demetrios and Shanarani. The marriage of Constantinople and Tzintzuntzan. A marriage of old and new world and of European and Native. A masterstroke of propaganda to end the reign of Alexios Palaiologos.
If Demetrios was sourly glowering at his father for most of the proceedings, it went unnoticed by most.
-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-
"This is so different to what we would do back home." Shanarani, resplendent in the finest fabric still remaining in Constantinople, stood alongside her new husband. Her eyes alight with the curiosity and intelligence that had drawn him to her in the first place. "Father would never have done such a ceremony for me. We don't see marriage in the same way you do, I think."
Demetrios, torn away from staring at his father atop a carved seat, chuckled softly. His hand had not left Shanarani's arm since they had finished the ceremony proper. "Our people's have many things in common, and just as many differences. I would hardly be surprised to see this is one of them. From what I remember, marriage of this nature is something unique to our faith."
As he said this, the Warrior Prince used his free hand to gesture at the milling guests. Only the nobility and family friends still allowed inside the expansive dome of the Sophia. If anything could be said to be a sign of the expense placed on this event, it was the frankly dizzying array of colors and clothing on display. Men and women had brought out the fine clothes of their ancestors for the event. The cheap fabrics that dominated Roman clothing in this New World replaced for but one night and one event. Many of them had gone yet one step further, wearing ceremonial blades that had been collected before entering the church itself.
Demetrios was one of the few exceptions, his Granduncle's sword firmly belted at his waist. The jeweled hilt of Constantine's blade dimly reflecting the candle light and dancing flames of torches. [2]
Father, I do thank you for this gift. For allowing me to continue carrying Uncle's sword, even as I leave the City for good. I understand the sign of trust you are placing in me with this.
Sighing softly, Demetrios gave a small smile to Shanarani. "I imagine we will have to do whatever passes for a wedding for you people as well. Am I correct?"
"Of course." Shanarani gave an amused smirk back, her arm working out of Demetrios' grip to grab his hand instead. She laughed softly, and nodded towards where Irepani had drawn the attention of several Roman noblewomen, his exotic choice of dress and dark skin drawing attention. "Even if Father wouldn't insist, you know my brother would. For both of us." What was left unsaid, though the wink that Irepani sent their way before mingling with the noblewomen indicated, was that it would be for his amusement first and foremost. "I think he wants to use it much like your Father did."
That got Demetrios to send another sour look at his father, who was sitting back and giving the kind of smile to the crowd that only an old man could. The kind of indulgent expression that old men of all cultures were masters of.
"I have had to suffer that once already, one more time would hardly be an issue." Demetrios grumbled, though there was little real bite to his words. He sent a glance at Shanarani, allowing his sour look to fade in favor of a dry look. "Though, I will have to protest quite heavily if your father insists on sacrifices. I know how difficult it is for your people to give that practice up, but..."
Shanarani just nodded and smiled sadly. "You have nothing to apologize for, my beloved. I understand why it makes you uncomfortable and I won't allow my Father to bring any. You know I would never allow that."
The two lapsed into silence at that, content merely to stand and observe the festivities. Outside the Hagia Sophia, they both knew that crowds continued to mill about and use the excuse to celebrate. Inside the mighty dome, Purépechan nobles and soldiers mingled with their Roman counterparts. More than a few curious glances being directed between those of the Ohlone and their 'cousins' from the South, as they recognized each other as different to the 'original Romans'. It was the kind of mixed gathering that would never have occurred back in Europe.
Though, perhaps, that was for the better. To Demetrios, and indeed, to all present save Alexios himself...Europe was a dream. A homeland passing from living memory and into myth. Elysium, Arcadia, those were home now. Europe was something that no longer mattered to the Romans, beyond a vague 'we did not originally belong here' sort of feeling. Even the Turks had long-since accepted this fact.
"Enjoy the sights while you have the chance, Shanarani." Demetrios allowed his bride to grip his hand, as his free one rose to take in the proud mosaics and mighty dome of the greatest church in Christendom. His gesture took in the Hagia Sophia as well as the city outside it. "I don't think it will remain this way forever. We are all changing. Hopefully for the better."
Shanarani gave a calculating glance at her husband, when he spoke those words. "You're referring to your homeland."
"Not mine." Demetrios denied, shaking his head ruefully. "Not even my father's, I believe. He's the only one I know who still has memories of what Europe was like. Before too long, this will be home. For all of us, save for myself."
"And why is that, my brother?" Irepani broke in, striding over to his sister and brother-in-law. Though, really, they had been brothers long before this marriage. "This is your home, is it not? This is where your family has always lived. What else is that but home?" Even as he asked the question, dark eyes searched Demetrios' face.
For what, maybe even he didn't know.
Demetrios blew out a soft sigh at the look, and jerked his head to the south. "No, my home is Tzintzuntzan. My family is your family. When my father passes, I doubt I will be very welcome in Constantinople any longer."
The noted absence of his elder brother was keenly felt. Shanarani tightened her grip on her beloved's hand, and Irepani winced before bringing a hand up to rub at his brow. Both of the siblings knew Demetrios better, perhaps, than his own birth family.
Irepani, still rubbing his brow, nodded. "I see...I can hardly claim to understand the feeling, as the only sibling I have is Shanarani. And, I suppose, you as well, Uakusï." [3]
"Surely your brother would not bar you from the city of your birth." Shanarani denied, as her eyes drifted from Demetrios, to her brother, and to the distant Alexios. "That would be...a betrayal of all that family is. I can't believe the people would allow it, either. Or your father."
A hollow chuckle answered that. Demetrios looked up at the dome above his head, and shrugged his shoulders. "You have not studied Roman history as well as you could, my dear wife." Here, he tapped the sword girded to his waist. "Our people have a fine tradition of overthrowing our siblings in power struggles for the Throne. Or our cousins. Uncles and weak fathers. Popular generals have, more often than not, taken the throne from weak Emperors. It was how my family came to the throne."
Both of the Purépechan siblings shared an uncomfortable look at that. Not everything that glittered was gold, and just because the Romans looked prosperous, it did not mean they were perfect.
"You would never do that, I'm certain." The younger sibling spoke, her voice strong and sure in her husband's virtue. "You are not power hungry or mad like such men surely were."
Irepani nodded along with his sister's words, "I know you better than most, Demetrios. I have fought and bled alongside you for many years now. You would never betray your father in such a way. Nor, I'm sure, your brother. Despite the grave insult he is giving you in this event."
"Perhaps," Demetrios shrugged again, his face wearing a crooked smile that dragged on a scar along his cheek. A scar earned in honorable combat. "Heraklonas almost certainly does not see it that way. I bear some of the blame for his absence, in my arguments with him over the future of the Empire. However..." With a heavy sigh blown through tired lips, Demetrios swallowed what he wanted to say and moderated his next words. "I am popular with my men and I would imagine with the military at large, as I fight where Heraklonas stays in the City. My children have the potential legitimacy to rule two thrones. No offense intended, my brother. I would never even think to usurp your birthright."
"I would never dream of you doing such a thing. My sister would sooner kill us both in our sleep than allow that." Irepani snorted softly, and gamely ignored his sister swatting at his arm. His dark eyes narrowed in growing understanding, however. "I see what you are suggesting, though. Your brother is concerned for his throne, no matter your intentions, and..."
"...will never allow me even the slightest chance to usurp the throne. Nor my children, I would imagine." Demetrios finished with a tired smile on his lips. "This is why I suspect I will not be so welcome here again, once my own Father passes on."
Shanarani gently gripped her husband's hand at those words, and began to tug him in the direction of Alexios. "Then we must make the most of the time we have. Surely you want to speak with your father while you have the chance, yes?"
Knowing it would be a lost cause to argue with his wife, and that Irepani was trailing along with soft chuckles at any rate, Demetrios allowed it. It did not take long to reach Alexios at any rate. The aging Emperor, shoulders sagging with the weight of his role and many years, rising ever so slightly at the sight of his younger son. Alexios' wrinkled face spreading into a wide smile, as he spread his arms in greeting. His body may have begun to fail him, yet his eyes were still sharp as ever, when they look at his son.
In those eyes, Demetrios saw regret. For dragging his son into such a spectacle or for the knowledge that they may never see each other again once Demetrios returned to his new home. It was impossible to say.
"My son, and my new daughter. I am so proud of you both." Alexios' voice croaked with each word, yet a brittle strength of iron remained beneath the aged whisper. "For letting an old man have one more chance to indulge his dear son, before he passes on. I trust that you will wear Uncle's sword with pride, Demetrios." At the nod from the younger man, Alexios turned his smile on Shanarani instead. "And you, my dear, I trust to keep my son safe and happy."
"Always." Shanarani sent her own smile at Alexios, using her free hand to softly lay a touch upon his own wrinkled limb. "I can promise that I will never leave your son, or any children we may conceive. I am sure they would love to meet their grandfather."
It was left unsaid that, by the time any children were of an age to be able to travel such a distance, Alexios would almost certainly have passed on.
"I must apologize, though, for all of this." Alexios gestured feebly at their surroundings, and blew out a wet and rattling breath. His grey hair limply swaying with the motion. "I am aware you desired a private service, my son. This was..." Coughs wracked his frame, the old Emperor holding his hand to his mouth even as he waved off an aide who rushed to his side. "I'm fine! Fine I say! Let an old man talk with his son, one last time."
As the reluctant aide moved back, Alexios stared directly into his son's eyes. Not father to son, but man to man. Emperor to Prince.
"This was necessary to bring our homes together, Demetrios. I know well enough that your brother will have little intention of moving outside of Elysium unless his hand is forced in the matter. This will, if I am correct, at least keep the Purépecha in the minds of our people. That will have to be enough." He gripped his son's hand, and squeezed it with all the strength his old bones had left. "I know you will not disappoint me, and that you and your children are our future. This is the last gift I can give you."
Demetrios nodded and returned the gentle squeeze. "I know, father. And I will never forget it."
Whatever sour looks and general displeasure that the son had felt for his father were...if not gone, at least buried for the moment. The two men would spend the rest of the night talking with one another, knowing it would likely as not be the final time they would ever have such a chance. Irepani would leave and return to his explorations of the Church and the City, while Shanarani would remain at her husband's side. Her arm locked his his own, and her whispered words echoing in his ear.
"Uembekua, Demetrios." [4]
1. The, perhaps, simple name for the Valley surrounding Constantinople and Elysium Bay. Other names include Grand Valley and Valley of God, though these are used less often.
2. While he had carried the Sword of Constantine in battle, it was only at his wedding that- as a traditional gift -Demetrios would receive it from his father in perpetuity. Heraklonas was not a soldier and was inheriting the throne in any case. Gifting the Sword of the Saint to his younger son was all that Alexios could offer to make up for what he saw as his own failings.
3. 'Eagle' in the Purépecha language. Demetrios received this nickname from Irepani during their battles with the Aztec. Both as a reference to the Imperial Eagle of the Roman Empire- and, indeed, the Palaiologos family -and in reference to those conflicts. For what better animal to defeat the Aztec than a mighty eagle, in acknowledgement of their own myths and legends?
4. 'I love you, Demetrios'.
This ended up both longer, and lesser, than what I expected/wanted. I had wanted to show the ceremony itself, but it began to cause me neverending grief attempting to get it right. So I elected to do this, instead. More world and character building. Hopefully it works out.
As an apology for how long this took, I am also posting a proper update to go with this.
(Also, if I butchered the Purépecha words here, I apologize. Obviously I don't speak the language, so online dictionaries are what I have to work with.)
Chapter 16
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Chapter 16
Arrival of the Spanish
Arrival of the Spanish
When Columbus sailed on his voyage of discovery, his intention had been to chart a shorter course to the riches of India. A workaround to avoid the dangerous trip around Africa and the chaos in the Balkans. We now know, of course, that his beliefs were flawed at the core. He severely underestimated the distance of the journey, and had the New World not been along his path, he would have died long before reaching India. At the time, however, his voyage would prove to be one of the most important in human history. While it can be argued that fisherman would have eventually made the voyage themselves or that the Portuguese were soon to discover America[1] themselves, it remains Columbus who was the first. He was the one who discovered the Caribbean and the scattered islands therein.
These voyages of discovery laid the groundwork for the Spanish Empire in the Caribbean. It was from the island holdings that resulted, that Spanish expeditions to the mainland would eventually begin. The wild jungles of Arcadia proved, at first, to be a barrier to exploration. As well as the natives themselves, and some resistance from colonial authorities and the Crown in Spain. It would not be until decades after Columbus' first voyage that the Spanish landed on the mainland in any real force and even this was an unauthorized expedition.
Hernán Cortés would, even in his own lifetime, become known as a fool who pushed too hard and too fast. He should have stepped back when he first encountered vengeful Aztecs who believed his people to be Romans.
-Spain's Colonial Ambitions, Published 1992, University of Havana
The history of Spain in the New World is one fraught with conflict. Initial colonization after Christopher Columbus 'discovered' the Caribbean was the earliest. Spanish colonizers, bringing disease and weapons that the natives were completely unprepared for, nearly wiped out all natives of the islands. The Taíno, as a people, functionally ceased to exist. While some conflict would continue for some time, the Spanish quickly subjugated these islands and built the start of their colonial empire upon them. An Empire that, in stark contrast to the Romans, was far more interested in subjugating the natives and working them to death. In resource extraction and not in conversion. The closest similarity between the two states, if there were any, was in rapid expansion.
And in the replacement of native culture, it must be said, though the Romans generally allowed native culture to meld into their own, preferring that the natives convert to Orthodoxy over anything else. [2]
At any rate, the Spanish were far harsher in their early expansion than the Romans. Neither Empire was aware of the other at first, however, and this did shape later events. Had the Spanish been aware of the Romans from the start, they may have been more cautious in their attempts to break into Mesoarcadia. They may have treated the natives with more caution and respect. Perhaps. It is hard to say, as Hernán Cortés was not a man given to patience. The first of the 'great' Conquistadors, Cortés was a man with a mission. A mission to conquer land and bring gold to Spain. And if a bit of that gold came into his own pocket? If he put himself in power over whatever he conquered?
Well, that was just how it went, wasn't it?
The early days of Cortés' expedition are difficult to factually explore. Much was lost in the later days of the expedition, through deliberate action or accidents, and little truly remains of the record. What is known is that he landed upon Mesoarcadia's shore in mid-1519 as a rogue expedition, not under direct command of anyone but himself. In point of fact, the records generally agree that he scuttled his own fleet to prevent any chance of retreat. An action of a man who had no intention of failing. Success or death, it is apparent, were the only options in the mind of Cortés. A dangerous approach to take in a potentially hostile land that you know little to nothing about. Yet one that completely fit the man's self-aggrandizing and egotistical personality.
It is often said, in certain circles, that had Cortés been any less arrogant he may have believed himself just a King. While there is no evidence to say that he ever considered himself in such lofty terms, it does speak to the man that his legacy is viewed in such a way. Perhaps, had it not been for the Romans, he may have moved past his personal flaws. It is impossible to say.
What can be said, is that his personality would cause immediate friction when contact was first made with the natives. It is generally accepted that this happened within a few days of the initial landing, and with Aztec scouts. In stark contrast to the initial contact the Romans had experienced, several years before, this was a very hostile contact. In all fairness to Cortés, this was not entirely the fault of the conquistador. He likely would have faced conflict in this regard, no matter what he had done. For the Aztec, having long-since come to associate metal armor and weapons with the hated Romans, would not be willing to give the very white Spaniards the benefit of the doubt.
In a short, yet brutal, engagement the Spanish came off better largely on the strength of their arquebus troops. These weapons were not yet as potent as firearms would eventually become, nor truly that much more effective than bows. However, the Aztec had yet to experience such weapons. The Romans had few gunpowder arms and tended to keep them close to home.[3] The only gunpowder arms that any Aztec had experienced were the handful of light cannons that Demetrios had brought in his expedition. Cortés had both more cannon, and more hand-cannon. The shock of these weapons and the numerical superiority of the Spanish proved decisive, and the Aztec would be routed. Not without losses, however, as a dozen or more Spaniards fell.
When it came time to check the bodies and it was discovered an Aztec scout yet lived, Cortés' personality took hold. Both rage and likely frustration at himself, warring together to create a perfect storm.
He treated the prisoner harshly, interrogating him on why they had attacked with no warning. The Aztec scout, delirious from wounds made worse by the harsh treatment, was in no shape to explain. Even were there no language barrier, on either side. In the end, all the scout could repeat- over and over -was 'Romans'. Cortés and his men, once the scout inevitably passed away, were befuddled by this. Romans?
Roman Catholic, perhaps, though it raised the question if any other expeditions like their own had landed here before. Not an impossibility, though incredibly unlikely. It would be strange that there was no word at all, nor any evidence of missing ships in Cuba nor Hispaniola. The truth would not come out until sometime later, however, as Cortés and his men moved further inland. The somewhat primitive roads of the Aztec leading towards their capital.
It was during this that Cortés would meet the natives who would, at the least, not immediately attack him.
It is generally accepted, though impossible to confirm, that the first natives Cortés would encounter after the Aztec were raiding parties of the Tlaxcalan Republic. At first, these men would observe the Spanish and not make contact. What few journals remain indicate that the Spanish were at least aware of these men watching them. More than a few times they attempted to bring the Tlaxcalan's to battle. If only to stop the potential skirmishes on their supply train, which was already running low with the lack of any native assistance. Perhaps it was realizing the position of weakness the Spanish were in that prompted the Tlaxcalan's to move forward.
Regardless of the reason, the records indicate that they did move forward. A Tlaxcalan war leader met with Cortés and spoke with him. By this point, the Spanish had picked up a local woman who spoke Nahuatl and could- once taught Spanish -translate with the natives. The war leader, their name lost to history, told Cortés that continuing on to Tenochtitlan would be futile and only lead to their deaths. Something that riled up all the Spaniards after their earlier victory over the scouting party. It especially rankled their leader, his ego bruised by the insinuation he could not lead a successful conquest after all.
In his typical blunt and caustic faction, Cortés demanded to know why his heavily armed troops would be useless. The response was simple, and yet striking for all the simplicity. The Aztec were quite familiar with relatively small groups of white men in armor and would not fight with anything less than overwhelming force. Even weakened by years of warfare with the Tlaxcala and others, the Triple Alliance was more than capable of dealing with what few men Cortés had.
'What do you mean, white men in armor? My men are the first expedition to these God-forsaken lands!'
'No, you are not. Come to Tepeticpac and I can explain much better. I assure you, you will be marching to your deaths if you continue on like this.'
'Fine. I will listen to what you have to say. If I find your explanation wanting, I will resume my march immediately.'
Or so the legends say. It is known that Cortés was quite unwilling to abandon his march and redirect to the capital of the Tlaxcalans. He did so only on the protests of his lieutenants, who had seen how the Aztec fought, and acknowledged that they were clearly familiar with how the Spanish fought. Something was strange and they needed proper answers. It wouldn't do to march into unknown lands with forces arrayed against you that knew your tactics. However unlikely it seemed.
And so, Cortés and his small expedition- buoyed by more and more natives -marched to Tepeticpac. This march, taking them away from their ultimate objective, rankled the Spanish. None more so than Cortés, who is recorded as regretting his decision. It was far too late to change, however, with the surrounding natives growing larger in number by the day. And just as the Aztec had seemed to understand how to fight men in steel plate, so too did the Tlaxcalans.
Curiosity about this was just enough to keep the Spanish moving.
Upon arrival in Tepeticpac, the expedition was given quarters and fresh food. It would not be until the day after arrival that Cortés and his men would be brought before the local leaders. This, alone, would have mattered little. Cortés was growing incredibly frustrated and would likely have made comments to insult his 'friends', of course. Yet that would have been something that was expected by all sides. It was hardly as if the Tlaxcalans were unaware of his prickly nature by this point. However, it was one of the men waiting in that room that would throw everything out of order for the Spanish.
Sitting with the Tlaxcalan leadership was a very white man, despite the tan across his entire body. A man with piercing eyes and well-worn steel armor, who greeted the Spanish in Greek of all languages.
It was fortunate for Cortés that his expedition happened to have a man who had fought as a mercenary in Greece and knew enough of the language to communicate with the Tlaxcalan. Who, quickly, disabused the Spanish of that notion. He was not a Tlaxcalan. Nor was he native to this part of the world.
He was a Roman.
1. Arcadia and America are the two continents in the Western Hemisphere. There were some attempts to name them both after Amerigo Vespucci on the European side, however, the Romans pushed Arcadia. Eventually it was accepted that the northern continent would be Arcadia and the southern would be America.
2. The modern Roman state acknowledges that there is a realistic point to calling their integration efforts, at least the early ones, cultural genocide. This has been apologized for on multiple occasions, and acknowledged as such. Even in the worst cases, however, this is still less drastic than how other Europeans would treat their native populations.
3. The few gunpowder hand-arms the Roman's possessed were precious and not worth sending so far from home. It would not be until contact with the Europeans that the Romans began producing these weapons in large numbers.
And double update done. This one is shorter, but I wanted to make sure I got both done tonight, so...yeah. At least I pulled that one off
But yes. The Spanish have officially arrived with all the fun that entails. This should be fun to explore, I think. Also, in regards to note 2 there...I don't want to try and pretend the Roman integration efforts are completely good or that they can't be seen as cultural genocide, even as the people are treated well and kept alive. I certainly don't want readers to think I'm not acknowledging that point.
Anyhoo. Time to have the Europeans brought back in. I'll also be looking at what's going on in Europe (fun times there, as I hint at the start) soon enough.
Sorry about that. I'm not sure why the formatting had a heart attack. Second post up...again.
the chaos this is about to unleash in Europe will be unprecedented the moral authority boost eastern orthodoxy will get from god littery stepping and saving Constantinople I expect the conversion rates to it to be up in both the lands of Islam and catholicism as people deal with the fact the god in (at the time) modern times stepping in directly on the behath of the orthodox church
Last edited:
WyrmofFrost
One whose Muse delights in being coy
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
Okay that is over with. This is going to be a glorious roller coaster of a ride. The sheer what the fuck level is glorious. And judging from the hints about Cortes he is not going to enjoy his stay in mesoarcadia. I wonder how quickly the Romans can yank ideas and tech from any spanish arms/people they manage to get ahold of. Its going to happen eventually I think.
On another note what sort of if any tech developments have those in Constantinople come up with? Any adaptations to adjust to the environment or has the focus been on simply building themselves up?
floppy_seal99
D-O-G-A-R-S DOGARS!
- Location
- snooping as usual
Byzantine retrofit mods for M2TW are gonna be nuts. Gasmouli Musketeers? Comanche Skythikon with dragoon weaponry? Shoshone/Absaroka Akritai (alpine infantry)?
"Refrain, kyrios, I can only get so erect."
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
still wonder what this would be like as a quest but this will do.
so the Spanish are here, yay.
they where so wonderfully arrogant at this time.
looking forward too how that clash of culture will form up.
so the Spanish are here, yay.
they where so wonderfully arrogant at this time.
looking forward too how that clash of culture will form up.
- Location
- Philippines
This chapter made me so happy. I like to think I had a hand in this since I brought up natural redheads and feisty Purepechan princesses way back in the past, and you realized my random ramblings way better than I could ever have dreamed to do.
...I really should get around to writing the omake I promised you for this...
So begins the humbling of Cortez. All the bad luck that should have struck down his prime self will finally manifest to haunt this one XD
Divine Punishment/Intervention at its finest. It might be interesting to see how Cortes' wild ride comes to a flaming crash stop from here XD
Up until I read this, I didn't realize that approach counted as a form of cultural genocide. The more you learn...
All in all, excellent updates to an amazing alternate history.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Protestantism just emerged only a year ago. Maybe more by the point of the meeting. This is going to have some extremely interesting interactions with that. Because by the time this information arrives in Europe, and more importantly, by the time it arrives and is believed in Europe, Protestantism is going to be in full swing for it's early foundation. So at the time when the new religious movement is most open to change, there's going to arrive news that not only does God exist. But he directly intervened by moving Constantinople to an Edenic safe haven when it was about to fall to the Muslims.
But at the same time God did not intervene when, for example, Saladin recaptured Jerusalem. So clearly, either the Crusader States never had a divine mandate to exist or God took one look at Mehmed the Second and said, "Screw that guy specifically!"
Last edited:
- Location
- USS Enterprise CV-6
Don't forget the 3rd possibility that people come to the conclusion that Constantinople is the true Christian holy city and not Jerusalem.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Ahhhhhh.
And Cortés reaps the shitstorm he deserved to suffer in reality, god I hate reading about Cortés; the man should have gotten his shit wrecked many times, but through a combination of blatant lies and sheer blind luck he managed to wave enough gold around to convince Charles V to not chop his head off.
That's not going to work this time around. Too bad, so sad.
Europe is basically going to explode. It will take awhile because nobody is going to believe that Constantinople fucking teleported across the planet when everyone knows that Mehmed II burned the city to the ground, but eventually enough evidence will make its way back to Europe that the Catholic Church is going to be forced to confront the apparent reality that Constantinople is God's Chosen City and its people His Chosen People, because why else would God intervene so blatantly to rescue the city and its people if they weren't important?
This is going to cause Problems.
Less a possibility and more a guarantee; God never picked Jerusalem up and moved it to a paradise on earth on the other side of the planet when it was threatened by muslim conquerors, but He did save Constantinople. Logically speaking, Constantinople must be more important, otherwise He would have saved Jerusalem instead.
People will try to argue this of course, but arguing a blatant and obvious miracle like the teleportation of an entire city and all its people is rather tricky, to say the least.
Last edited:
- Location
- Classified
God, imagine trying to work this into a coherent worldview.