Purple Phoenix Reborn (Constantinople ISOT)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Timeline
JoshuaSweetvale
Insectovore
- Location
- NL, 65 Million Years Ago
The Aztecs were burned out of northern Mesoamerica, specifically the Purépecha sphere of influence two generations ago and are currently playing whac-a-tributary.
That's two generations of recovery from European disease, two generations of playing Watchers on the Wall with an influx of Roman tech.
-Elrment of surprise
-Protection
-Plague
These are all cards Demetrios already played. Cortéz will either Leeroy into a prepared Aztec force, or more likely at this point: He'll piss off the Purépecha and they'll kick him back into the sea. Either way, I doubt the Purple Empire or the Iron City wants any Spanish lunatics on the mainland.
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Not gonna lie, that's a badass name for Constantinople even though it's lack of iron deposits makes it an inaccurate one.
- Location
- United States
I think it's fair to say that the Spanish won't be as wildly successful as OTL, but dismissing the capabilities of the conquistadors like Cortez doesn't seem very true to history or the pursuit of a realistic scenario. Sure, it might be satisfying to write about a historical figure you despise "falling flat on their face," but at least in my opinion, that takes something away from a TL.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Plague is the big one, without the massive deaths from plague (I'm talking over 90% death rate amongst natives here) gaining and holding significant amounts of territory in Mesomerica is going to be much harder and more expensive without native alliances and support.
And Cortes is... not the right person to make major alliances, his OTL success in that regard was pretty much entirely down to the Aztecs being even bigger assholes than he was, and none of those alliances lasted long.
They'll accomplish something; holdings on the east coast of the New World should be relatively easily established with the possible exception of Mesoamerica, but the greater rigidity of the natives will make pushing across the New World to the west coast and the Pacific substantially more difficult, which will have many knock-on impacts down the line. (And that's not even getting into Constantinople and the Romans directly.)
It is difficult to overstate just how ridiculously easy conquering the New World was, and just how many native peoples were completely wiped out years before any European went anywhere near their home territory; to the European colonists in North America for example, the lands to the west were basically empty and untouched.
They weren't, those lands had actually been full of native tribes a couple of decades earlier. Then diseases like smallpox passed through the region and left it all but empty of people.
Colonization will still happen, but unlike OTL it's going to be difficult, which means less profit, which means other options start looking more attractive, which means priorities change.
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Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Who said I was dismissing him? Again, I've put my due diligence into researching this.
JoshuaSweetvale
Insectovore
- Location
- NL, 65 Million Years Ago
Nono, Rome's primary eastern ally that this last story was about: the Purépecha.
They had actual metal weapons, a standout in the new world, and the picture of the fortifications had grey granite.
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- Location
- Queensland, Australia
My thoughts are that the Spanish are still going to end up controlling southern Mesoamerica. In fact, they're going to be even more interested in securing them than IRL due to the fact that they do not have the territory in northern Mexico or California to set up their Pacific-Atlantic trade route through. I also suspect that the Incans are going to be conquered again. There's just not enough motivation for the Romans to have explored that far down and made the connections needed to stop the Incan Empire falling.
Hell, depending on how the disease transmission patterns were IRL, the Incan Empire might be in a better state to be conquered as they'd be just getting into the recovery period of the massive disease wave rather than just about to enter it. If the diseases arrived about the time of the Spanish Conquistadors like I think it did IRL?
Hell, depending on how the disease transmission patterns were IRL, the Incan Empire might be in a better state to be conquered as they'd be just getting into the recovery period of the massive disease wave rather than just about to enter it. If the diseases arrived about the time of the Spanish Conquistadors like I think it did IRL?
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
The Incas had trade routes running up into Aztec 'territory' (in so far as the Aztecs had territory), so they should have been hit with the Roman diseases not long after the Aztecs and Purépecha were.
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Also, Pizarro's conquest of the Inca depended heavily on the fact that he arrived right as there was an ongoing civil war for the Incan throne, which allowed him to politically maneuver into an advantageous position. That requires fairly tight timing that's easy to butterfly away, especially in the absence of a conquered Mesoamerica.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Just the moment I was waiting for! I really want to see Europe's reaction to the mass teleportation, but also the Ottoman one. At first they will not believe it, but if the general populace learn of it i find likely there will be riots and instability. And probably a big religious crisis.
Norseman
Entirely Wholesome
It is at times like this that the Ecumenical Patriarch should extend an olive branch and offer the Bishop of Rome a chance to repent his schismatic ways. Also the correspondences between the protestants and the Orthodox will be fun to read.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Eventually leading to the creation of the 'Rome was right' song.
- Location
- Here
The patriarch is going to be insufferable for the rest of his life.
I really do like maps and history so this is great fun for me, looking up the specific areas in which things are happening and trying to draw out the changes that have occurred.
Revan Skirata
I am Revan Reborn, and before me you are nothing.
- Location
- Why do you want to know?
Quite like the story so far. I have no doubt I'm gonna enjoy Cortés and later European reactions to Constantinople and the religious implications of that. I'm actually more so excited for possible interactions with the Incas. I view the Incas as the sort of "American Rome", with their series of technological adoptions from their subjects like their roads, worship of a sun god like Sol Invictus, and being the largest and greatest empire in their part of the world until they got overrun by barbarians during a time of political instability and population collapse. In fact, the Incas started their rise to power at around the same time Constantinople fell. Coincidence? Yes. But maybe the light of Rome fled to Cusco when the City of Constantine fell.
On another note, this reminds me of a kind of similar idea I had, where instead of Constantinople being moved, Aurelian is revived with his army to save the city. Considering he was murdered in Thrace, it would've only been a few days March at most to relieve the city.
On another note, this reminds me of a kind of similar idea I had, where instead of Constantinople being moved, Aurelian is revived with his army to save the city. Considering he was murdered in Thrace, it would've only been a few days March at most to relieve the city.
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
I wonder what the non-Christian interpretations of the ISOT are going to be.
Rival Muslim Polities:
1) God looked on and saw the greed of the Ottomans to possess the Roman jewel. They were humbled in return.
2) The Christians snuck out under the Ottomans nose.
3) It was the Templar orders! A secret crusade was hatched from inside the Ottoman's belly.
4) Memet somehow fooled everyone and secretly helped the city and the christians knowing he couldnt truly take the city. He and the Pope hatched a plan to Obviously he was not a true believer. Reeee!
5) The Romans used or called upon the power of Sorcery. Why were they delivered so close to a people who enjoy blood sacrifice instead of being taken to heaven?
6) The Catholic Church is the one who set this into motion after Constantinople's reconciliation with Rome. It then flexed its long reach. Do not underestimate Rome.
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
moving a city with the tech we expect aliens to have yes. to do so quietly enough that no one notices and in the span of let's say 8 hours (as the city moved in the middle of the night I think) no
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8. The Romans discovered the new world decades before anyone else did and built an exact copy of Constantanople when they got there. They claim to be the original Constantinople and the entire new world is in on the con.
9: Constantanople has ALWAYS been on the West Coat of Arcadia, and they created the Roman Empire as a puppet state to try and control Christendom. They built a replica city in Thrace in order to trick people. But now the good people know and so their foul tricks no longer work on us. The foul Papists likely also have the real Rome somewhere in Arcadia as well. And the Jews have the real Jerusalem hidden as well. And Mecca as for the foul Muslim. And Behind all of it, The Pharaoh plots to enslave us all!
-Some weird sect of Protestantism.
-Some weird sect of Protestantism.
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- Location
- The Old Dominion
Hmm somehow it doesn't seem quite crazy and weird enough I 'd somehow imagine something being thrown in there as well about the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople actually being the same person while also the antichrist and or the devil while having a evil cabal of cannibal blood drinking Jesuits who carries out his unholy bidding as well or some such thing.
Still the early days of protestantism. Give it time.
These ones at least get credit for including the Pharaoh into their truth.
The reality however is that the pickings got slim after the Ptolemys and with the collapse of both the Maya and Mound Builders. The Pharoah has his hand busy with Romans and Now Spanish invaders. Worse, he is pratically forced to make a momument to expand his city due to being in a lake.
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