Project: Gamer Ver. 2 (Young Justice/Gamer/Multicross OC)

[Aelryinth]

In modern day religion, most non-Christian religions have humanized their gods to one extent or another, humans raised to godhood, descendants of more powerful gods, outgrowths of Chaos, created by the universe. Gaia is the spirit of the planet Earth.
The Christian God CREATED the chaos/universe the other gods are descended from. That's the difference in power. You're comparing gods of one planet to the power that created the whole universe!
IN DC, most gods are powers on Earth that could threaten the planet and humanity, but that's it, that's as far as it goes. They need massive powerups to become universal threats, generally by exploiting certain magic items, points in time, magical ceremonies, etc.
Lucifer and Michael can do the whole create universe things. They can MAKE those lesser gods!
So, yeah, big difference in power level.

Note: if you want a more equitable view on gods, go to Marvel. Jehovah there is a drunk old god who basically wanders around the multiverse doing nothing important, because Marvel doesn't want to get into religious conflicts. He's no powerful than Odin or Zeus or any other skyfather, at best... and yet he was able to empower Crusader, a knight of the Church, to nearly kill Thor.

 

[green8751]

Also, here is a small complain of what I read in YJ. The people there seem static in their opinions in MC. Alchemist is constantly being there, doing good, helping and throughout the story none of the teens or adults, except for main cast and Captain Marvel, has changed how the view him (maybe Diana, but even then only waaay later). They still view him as that insane wierd guy that they need to be warry off. The best we got is some kind of distant work relationship between him and Batman that didn't really change even with the whole dead parents resurrection for the night thing. Every other hero has respect to each other, but when alchemist has done more good than some of the other heroes (and supported most of the teens emotionally), nothing really changes - people react for chapter or two and go back to old thinking. Only real change comes from canon events and are similar to canon YJ.

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I actually get why they only trust him so far, he keeps a lot of secrets, is questionably sain, answers you get from him rarely make sense until after they would be useful, he seems to have an agenda, and doesn't follow the hero/villain rules.
He is helpful yes, but in a way they don't fully trust because they don't understand the why, and the people who understand enough to know why he is odd, also know he is a powerful entity foren to reality, with eldritch knowledge that literally created a horrible monster, and is in the service to an even more powerful being.

Also he can just banish you from reality, has had at least 1 major personality change, used to be prossesing a child (and from player one's perspective is the guy who got her friends arrested, ruined her relationship with her boyfriend, and also fucked off in her boyfriends body without telling anyone. Yes he gave it back, but that's still a rather bad impression)

 

[Jase_LV]

I actually get why they only trust him so far, he keeps a lot of secrets, is questionably sain, answers you get from him rarely make sense until after they would be useful, he seems to have an agenda, and doesn't follow the hero/villain rules.
He is helpful yes, but in a way they don't fully trust because they don't understand the why, and the people who understand enough to know why he is odd, also know he is a powerful entity foren to reality, with eldritch knowledge that literally created a horrible monster, and is in the service to an even more powerful being.

Also he can just banish you from reality, has had at least 1 major personality change, used to be prossesing a child (and from player one's perspective is the guy who got her friends arrested, ruined her relationship with her boyfriend, and also fucked off in her boyfriend's body without telling anyone. Yes he gave it back, but that's still a rather bad impression)

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I would argue that these factors are also true for every other hero. Batman keeps secrets, and so does Superman. So does every lantern. There are also plenty of characters that act how they like and ignore other heroes. Batman doesn't kill and argues against any other hero for doing so and insists on his way. Hawk people, Diana and Green lanterns also have their own agendas that involve their homeland that they would not really tell anyone else. Let's not even talk about how nobody really knows how Captain Marvel works or the secrets Zatara hides.

All I'm saying is that Alchemist, while powerful and knowledgeable, is pretty much just another superhero with his own way of working, but receives a different response than any canon character would in his place. The emotional soothing he does to help the teens does not stick. After all the help they got, they still act like he is outside and not someone dependable. Heck, by this point he has helped Aqualad with his gay thing (and team response to it) and helped Mgaan with a LOT of stuff. Helped all of the clones and stunted teenagers, etc. Saved the speedster's life and gave him even more speed and strength. However, only canon adult superheroes receive normal recognition. I keep coming back to Batman's magical hug. Since then, what has Batman done for Tiff? Why is she still thinking of him being amazing? I just want the good deeds of MC to receive a normal and lasting response. Currently, the best I can say is that they don't despise him and only think of him as that random autistic guy that fixes problems. Not as someone who has helped them time and time again and whom they can trust.

 

[Jase_LV]

In modern day religion, most non-Christian religions have humanized their gods to one extent or another, humans raised to godhood, descendants of more powerful gods, outgrowths of Chaos, created by the universe. Gaia is the spirit of the planet Earth.
The Christian God CREATED the chaos/universe the other gods are descended from. That's the difference in power. You're comparing gods of one planet to the power that created the whole universe!
IN DC, most gods are powers on Earth that could threaten the planet and humanity, but that's it, that's as far as it goes. They need massive powerups to become universal threats, generally by exploiting certain magic items, points in time, magical ceremonies, etc.
Lucifer and Michael can do the whole create universe things. They can MAKE those lesser gods!
So, yeah, big difference in power level.

Note: if you want a more equitable view on gods, go to Marvel. Jehovah there is a drunk old god who basically wanders around the multiverse doing nothing important, because Marvel doesn't want to get into religious conflicts. He's no powerful than Odin or Zeus or any other skyfather, at best... and yet he was able to empower Crusader, a knight of the Church, to nearly kill Thor.

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This is missing that a lot of cultures have creation myths. A lot of cultures have a single great being from which all else came and the corresponding children that take similar roles and power as Lucy and Mikey.


Egyptian Creation Myth:
Atum (Heliopolitan Creation Myth - Sun God)

Atum (sometimes merged with Ra) arose from Nun (primordial waters) and created the first gods Shu (air) and Tefnut (moisture) by spitting, sneezing, or self-fertilization.
Shu and Tefnut gave birth to Geb (earth) and Nut (sky), who in turn gave birth to Osiris, Isis, Seth, and Nephthys, the gods who shaped the world.
Ptah (Memphite Creation Myth - Thought & Word)

In the Memphis theology, Ptah, the god of craftsmanship and wisdom, spoke the universe into existence using divine words and thoughts.
This aligns with later philosophical ideas about creation through logos (word).
Amun (Theban Creation Myth - Hidden Creator)

Amun, "The Hidden One," was later associated with creation, often depicted as a self-created god who generated the universe.
Khnum (Potter God of Elephantine)

In some myths, Khnum created humans and the world on a potter's wheel.

AS for Hindu myths:

Brahman (Ultimate Reality - Vedantic Concept)

In Vedantic and Upanishadic philosophy, Brahman is the eternal, formless, and infinite reality from which all things emerge.
Creation is seen as the manifestation of Brahman into the material world (Maya).
Purusha (Cosmic Man - Rigveda)

The Purusha Sukta (Rigveda 10.90) describes a cosmic giant, Purusha, who was sacrificed by the gods to create the universe.
His body parts became the sky, earth, moon, sun, and social classes.
Prajapati (Lord of Creation - Vedic Creator)

Prajapati is the Vedic creator deity, later merged with Brahma, the traditional creator god in Hinduism.
Brahma (Puranic Creator God)

In Puranic stories, Brahma is the four-headed god who was born from a lotus emerging from Vishnu's navel.
Brahma created the world and the first beings (rishis and gods).
Narayana (Primordial God - Vishnu's Form)

In the Bhagavata Purana, Vishnu, as Narayana, lies on the cosmic serpent Ananta Shesha, floating in the primordial ocean.
He dreams the universe into existence, and Brahma emerges from his navel to begin creation.
Shiva as Creator (Shaivism)

In Shaiva traditions, Shiva, in his form as Mahadeva or Rudra, creates, maintains, and destroys the universe in endless cycles.

All I'm saying is that plenty of cultures have Gods as strong as YHWH

 

[Mister Ficser]

It's not a matter of personal preference so much as it is drawing directly from DC canon.

The Source is the in-universe all-creator entity. It made everything in the DC multiverse for a rather simple reason; To nurture the growth of Lucifer and Michael so that they could grow into beings that rivaled or surpassed its own existence. It could be argued that he is doing the same thing the Chousen of Tenchi Muyo did, just with fewer personal motivations or interactions.

 

[Aelryinth]

This is missing that a lot of cultures have creation myths. A lot of cultures have a single great being from which all else came and the corresponding children that take similar roles and power as Lucy and Mikey.


Egyptian Creation Myth:
Atum (Heliopolitan Creation Myth - Sun God)

Atum (sometimes merged with Ra) arose from Nun (primordial waters) and created the first gods Shu (air) and Tefnut (moisture) by spitting, sneezing, or self-fertilization.
Shu and Tefnut gave birth to Geb (earth) and Nut (sky), who in turn gave birth to Osiris, Isis, Seth, and Nephthys, the gods who shaped the world.
Ptah (Memphite Creation Myth - Thought & Word)

In the Memphis theology, Ptah, the god of craftsmanship and wisdom, spoke the universe into existence using divine words and thoughts.
This aligns with later philosophical ideas about creation through logos (word).
Amun (Theban Creation Myth - Hidden Creator)

Amun, "The Hidden One," was later associated with creation, often depicted as a self-created god who generated the universe.
Khnum (Potter God of Elephantine)

In some myths, Khnum created humans and the world on a potter's wheel.

AS for Hindu myths:

Brahman (Ultimate Reality - Vedantic Concept)

In Vedantic and Upanishadic philosophy, Brahman is the eternal, formless, and infinite reality from which all things emerge.
Creation is seen as the manifestation of Brahman into the material world (Maya).
Purusha (Cosmic Man - Rigveda)

The Purusha Sukta (Rigveda 10.90) describes a cosmic giant, Purusha, who was sacrificed by the gods to create the universe.
His body parts became the sky, earth, moon, sun, and social classes.
Prajapati (Lord of Creation - Vedic Creator)

Prajapati is the Vedic creator deity, later merged with Brahma, the traditional creator god in Hinduism.
Brahma (Puranic Creator God)

In Puranic stories, Brahma is the four-headed god who was born from a lotus emerging from Vishnu's navel.
Brahma created the world and the first beings (rishis and gods).
Narayana (Primordial God - Vishnu's Form)

In the Bhagavata Purana, Vishnu, as Narayana, lies on the cosmic serpent Ananta Shesha, floating in the primordial ocean.
He dreams the universe into existence, and Brahma emerges from his navel to begin creation.
Shiva as Creator (Shaivism)

In Shaiva traditions, Shiva, in his form as Mahadeva or Rudra, creates, maintains, and destroys the universe in endless cycles.

All I'm saying is that plenty of cultures have Gods as strong as YHWH

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All well and good, but not the interpretation that is being used in the comics.
In DC-dom and Christianity, there's nothing before God/the Source. No primordial waters, no Chaos, no other gods. Everything else, including other gods, came after God. Only ONE god could have created everything, all your invoked myths above there are actively in competition with one another as to who was the original, and the fact is the Source/God IS the original, everything else came afterwards.
God in DCdom is not a racial deity of a specific ethnicity. In terms of mythological status, Heaven stands higher than all other divine realms. What other religions call Creation Myths DCdom calls flexing in creation of a divine realm, they actually have no influence in the true creation of the mortal realm. All their 'create the universe' stuff happens in establishing their own divine realm, nowhere else.
This aspect is true even in Marvel. The 'creator gods' in Marveldom come out of the primal Chaos between incarnations of the multiverse as the old trope gods die, and are reborn. Their creation myths are just fancified tales of the establishment of their own divine realms, creation is the job of Eternity.

 

[Raphael]

Rereading, it was mentioned that there were 3 kryptonian clones. Was the third one fully non-viable, even with healing?

 

[Aelryinth]

Rereading, it was mentioned that there were 3 kryptonian clones. Was the third one fully non-viable, even with healing?

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I think the third one ends up being Bizarro?

 

[Jase_LV]

All well and good, but not the interpretation that is being used in the comics.
In DC-dom and Christianity, there's nothing before God/the Source. No primordial waters, no Chaos, no other gods. Everything else, including other gods, came after God. Only ONE god could have created everything, all your invoked myths above there are actively in competition with one another as to who was the original, and the fact is the Source/God IS the original, everything else came afterwards.
...

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Fair enough, seems my DC and Marvel comic knowledge is lacking. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Lycanthromancer]

The mage was fairly certain that the entire mechanic was an odd interaction, an injection of his Gamer system altering the untapped potential within an item into a pre-existing pattern.

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Alchemist has had his Gamer system sealed away from him, and (later) Areru has had it removed entirely.

So that's clearly not the case.

Maybe it's psychosomatic? Or is that psychotheurgic?

He expects the Item World to work, and so his castings of Gate allow for it to work.

 

[green8751]

Alchemist has had his Gamer system sealed away from him, and (later) Areru has had it removed entirely.

So that's clearly not the case.

Maybe it's psychosomatic? Or is that psychotheurgic?

He expects the Item World to work, and so his castings of Gate allow for it to work.

Click to shrink...

Areru has never gone into an item world, nor do I remember him ever trying. I also don't remember alchemist trying to enter one without his system. We have no evidence to counter the idea that the item worlds are a gamer system supported effect in most realities, especially with alc believing that.

 

[dogbertcarroll]

The gate spell leading into the item world was something he developed and not part of the gamer system he was given, I also have believe he has mastered that version of the spell by now.

 

[green8751]

He has mastered gate, and based on his description there isn't a different version he uses to enter item worlds. If he went to digsea or any other universe with item worlds I fully expect he could go into them there. What I don't believe is item worlds natively existing in the DC multiverse, as i know of no storyline that goes into an item world. It makes more sense for there presence to be based on his system than him being the first person to TP into an object in the correct way to get into one.

 

[Lycanthromancer]

He has mastered gate, and based on his description there isn't a different version he uses to enter item worlds. If he went to digsea or any other universe with item worlds I fully expect he could go into them there. What I don't believe is item worlds natively existing in the DC multiverse, as i know of no storyline that goes into an item world. It makes more sense for there presence to be based on his system than him being the first person to TP into an object in the correct way to get into one.

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Alchemist had played Disgaea and knew about the item worlds, so he experimented with Gate to see if he could reach one of them even though they weren't a thing in DC. Lucky him, those apparently exist everywhere (or at least in the places he's visited), but it seems like only Disgaea ever actually found them.