Metal Gear Solid V: Chronicles of Outer Heaven (MGS/Valkyria Chronicles)

Kept you waiting huh?

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While I was sleeping last night I was awoken by a thought that popped into my head, because I dream of MGS and VC (damn you @konamikode) you see. We know that Ragnite, its uses and limitations are what have defined warfare on Europa (and the rest of the world). That applies to land combat (in that tanks have giant glowing weakpoints and body armor in Alternate WWII is actually worth a damn) and air combat (in that there is basically none except for that one huge dirigible that was custom built), but what about naval combat?

I've been looking for examples, and maybe I missed them (let me know if I did, please) but none of the ships on the wiki have any signs of depth charges on them. It makes sense that they wouldn't have AA, given that planes are emphatically not a thing and those dirigibles are dead if your main or secondary guns can elevate high enough, but no depth charges? What about submarines?

That is when it struck me.

Would they even HAVE submarines? Submarines were a pain in the ass to develop in real life due to technological limitations and just how tricky it is to make one that is both not a death trap and actually useful. If there are no submarines, would they have developed SONAR technology as well?

I mean, if this is the case then we have an angle to actually apply our asymmetrical doctrine to naval warfare as well. Rather than trying to build up the means to defeat or disuade a large naval force, Mother Base could maintain a small fleet of hunter-killer submarines instead. If I am correct (which I may not be) we could use those to make the area around Mother Base near completely unassailable.

Also, does anyone know if they have RADAR? I honestly can't remember.

It's just a thought that occurred to me and I wanted to see if anyone else knew. I'll get back to writing and then work.

Have a nice day!
My man, we are Delta Force, not the US Navy.

(Actually looking at our force mix we're more like mini-JSOC; 1st Co is essentially Delta+extras, 2nd Co is Green Berets + other special operations units, 3rd Co is basically Rangers.)
 
I'm not sure... I think the standard naval doctrine for most states is fleet in being. There might be some concept of RADAR being developed however due to the lack of air tech. It's probably a few decades off.

Actually we see plenty uses of radar in V4 so we know it's a thing and it's accurate enough to ping ground units.

How? Magic rock science.
 
So what's the strategic implications of Alicia being on Gallia's (theoretical) payroll. As far as being worth it to invade Gallia or not goes?
 
So what's the strategic implications of Alicia being on Gallia's (theoretical) payroll. As far as being worth it to invade Gallia or not goes?

Sure she is a strategic asset however that's not enough to Deter invasion on her own however throwing in the militia and their reputation means that it's doable but you would rather avoid doing so if there was another option as it would be costly for not a lot of gain.

My earlier example the thorn bush still stands. Doable but painful for little gain and not worth it while fighting someone else
 
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Hey can we get some citations on the size of Fed/Imperial force sizes and stuff before we start talking about how the Empire/Feds can just steamroll them.

Because there's no reason for them not to if they really could. Honestly what seems to make the most sense is that after EW I Galia went down hill as it lost most of it's better generals and fighting force got too old or retired along with their tech advantage decaying, and between EW I and EW II most of the upper brass that took over were more political based rather than skill based (Which is what VC 1 / VC 3 seem to suggest).

EW I's after effects seemed to suggest though that Galia became enough of a threat to suggest any side that invaded Galia would have to put enough forces there for a solid chance at victory that they'd lose the bigger war. Well that and it seemed like going off Jaeger's bio that there were still more neutral/smaller countries that the Federation and Empire hadn't absorbed yet or had some internal issues.
The main number I can give for an idea of numbers is that Operation Northern Cross is noted to have been a land-based counter offensive using 6 million Federation Soldiers trying to punch through to the Imperial Capital to win the war, and that by the end of it 10 million soldiers and civilians (presumably on both sides) had died. Narration also mentioned that was pretty much the Federation's entire available army at the time (I think) after getting punted back about a third of their territory and with no signs of the Empire slowing down, so they were doing Desperation Do-or-Die attacks.

Also, I want to say that Lindbergh Base, one of the main bases Squad E was based out of during Operation Northern Cross, had something like 20 to 30 thousand soldiers as part of their thrust, but that one I'm not sure on since I am away from the game and can't double check the narration. Squad E was also part of the Armored Ranger Corps, so they would probably have been a 'forward' base compared to the main army bases.

The Wiki also mentions the manpower and supply drain the Gallian-Imperial War kicked off allowed the Federation to take and hold land post-1935 in the area. Basically, by 1937 things were still stalemated, with the Federation having made inroads into the Empire and the Empire still holding a good chunk of Not!France.

No straight numbers, alas, just mentions that the Gallian Invasion was enough of a drain to let the Federation pull off their counter-attack due to the high cost in men-and-supplies.

Part of the problem is a lot of the data files are 'IC', and all sides had vested interests in covering up What Really Happened (since no one likes letting out tidbits like 'oh, yeah, Valkyria are real. And we weaponized them. Via horribly painful and unethical experiments with horrible mortality rates!' 'The figures that are basically holy or revered figures to most of the population.' 'Yep.' 'oh goddammit, wh-*brick thrown through window by enraged rioters*'), so hard numbers are hard to pick up.

But yeah, as I mentioned, Gallia was always considered a tough pickle to invade due to the topography. If it wasn't for Selvaria being Awesome and Damon being terrible, the Empire would probably have had a lot more trouble at the Ghirlando Citadel. Taking that so easily let them punch right into the Gallian heartlands, among other things.
They costed by because they had the rep from EW1 where they had geni in tactical strategic and scientific fields. Including a dude who made an advanced EW2 tank back in EW1 that's like dropping a Tiger into WW1 it's a border line OOC problem.
To clarify a bit, the Edelweiss was a post-EWI invention.

General Belgen Gunther met Professor Theimer after EWI, when Gallian High Command ordered him (since he was one of their best tank commanders and mentioned as one of the first people to properly grasp just what a Tank is and what it's really capable of) and Professor Theimer (who was a mechanical genius) to develop a new tank. The problem was that then it turned out to be pretty expensive to build at the time, so they shelved it and General Gunther took the prototype home and stashed it in his garage.

And I'll be a little more fair to the Gallians at the time: Given they were trying to rebuild from the EWI and that Edelweiss was still at the Expensive Prototype Stage, plus their current Light Tanks seemed sufficient, I suppose I can see why they declined mass production at the time. Basically, the Edelweiss was so advanced that the Post-EWI Gallia of the time couldn't afford to build it in numbers, and then once they recovered, well, Peace had broken out and they didn't seem to need new tanks at the moment.

To be fair, again, it is mentioned that Gallian Light Tanks, as of the outbreak of EWII, do have the firepower of an Imperial Medium Tank (both are using a 75mm cannon), and the Gallians apparently preferred maneuver warfare to the Imperial's preference for heavier armor and slugging matches.

From what I can gather, by the end of the Gallian-Imperial Invasion during EWII, technology had advanced enough that the Gallians were able to begin mass-production of the tech prototyped by the Edelweiss as the Type 36 Series of tanks, which took the basic design pioneered by the Edelweiss and made Light, Medium, and Heavy tanks based on it (that also had the high degree of customization, standardized parts, etc)
 
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@konamikode The Wolbachia bacteria, would that kill just the Vocal Parasite that's infested Quiet, or would that kill 'The One That Cover's' too?
Wolbachia doesn't kill the vocal cord parasites. The parasites all start their life cycle as female. When a person speaks the keyed language, some of the parasites change to male and they begin reproducing and eating the host. The Wolbachia infection prevents that change from happening. So they're still carriers, just noninfectious.

Edit: The Boss is a ninja too?
 
Wolbachia doesn't kill parasites, it mutates them so they can't reproduce. Unless they get hulk'd anyway.
...I was going to say I'm Okay with that, since Big Boss is infertile anyway, and it would allow Quiet to speak without fear....but then I remembered Ahab's still perfectly capable of reproducing, and now I think it would be best to wait until after they've had a few kids :V
 
Wolbachia doesn't kill the vocal cord parasites. The parasites all start their life cycle as female. When a person speaks the keyed language, some of the parasites change to male and they begin reproducing and eating the host. The Wolbachia infection prevents that change from happening. So they're still carriers, just noninfectious.

Edit: The Boss is a ninja too?
When a ninja gets ninjaed they call it getting bossed

Edit: so question have we destroyed those virus samples yet? I'd rather not have an outbreak on our hands
 
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@konamikode The Wolbachia bacteria, would that kill just the Vocal Parasite that's infested Quiet, or would that kill 'The One That Cover's' too?

Wolbachia neutered the parasites by turning them all female.

This worked because the parasites kill by having an orgy in your throat and lungs, after you get thier motors running with your sexy "insert language here" accent.

It would probably mean quiet skin would slough off when the population Of parasites reached sufficiently low numbers.

Assuming it worked on "The One That Cover's" at all.
 
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I wonder if War Dogs can be taken in Europa? Different breeds, probably, but still.

Also I expect that if the parasites interact strangely with ragnite, we'll have a brand-new parasite suit research tree.
 
I wonder if War Dogs can be taken in Europa? Different breeds, probably, but still.

Also I expect that if the parasites interact strangely with ragnite, we'll have a brand-new parasite suit research tree.

they have combat dogs so I assume they can and really they're more or less the same as ( with the exception of the people who can fire Kamehameha beams) the people back home so the dogs are proably close enough for breeding and training to work the same.

nope. that research is getting burned and the ashes tossed into cement which will then be chucked into the deepest treanch in the ocean. you don't screw with bio weapons. it NEVER works out well. I don't care if it gives super powers it's not worth it. especially as it's the same tree of a potential world ending plague ( seeing as almost everyone in VC speaks the same language for some reason. I don't want to deal with that shit we have less dangerous means of creating super solders (IE just training them. seriously FOX people are basically Batmen) and far more controlled super weapons like MG's
 
I wonder if War Dogs can be taken in Europa? Different breeds, probably, but still.

Also I expect that if the parasites interact strangely with ragnite, we'll have a brand-new parasite suit research tree.
Hmmm... parasites+ragnite=dragon ball?

As in you can do ragnite energy blasts.

Or emulate valkyur abilities like regeneration.
 
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...I was going to say I'm Okay with that, since Big Boss is infertile anyway, and it would allow Quiet to speak without fear....but then I remembered Ahab's still perfectly capable of reproducing, and now I think it would be best to wait until after they've had a few kids :V
Actually, I think the Wolbachia make people sterile.

I could be wrong, but I remember something to that effect being the case.
 
Omake Ops 10.4 (EVA) The Philanthroper’s Legacy by Nix's Warden (4CP) (200kGMP)
The Philanthroper's Legacy 10.4​

Febuary 31st, 1984: The day has finally come. I've received word from my favorite cowboy. V has come and Ishmael has sunk into the sea. XOF managed to find them, as did two unknown anomalies, but V and Ishmael both survived. It's all up to V now and I hope he can pull this off. Ocelot will be there to keep him aimed in the right direction, with his 'talents' available in case the programming breaks early, but even so I'm nervous. His talents in his fields of expertise are unmatched by any I've seen, but the human mind is the most complex machine in the world, and such an extreme alteration over such an extreme period of time....I hope this works. I hope V can be what we need him to be. The world can't afford for him to fail.

So far results are promising. V has secured Kazuhira Miller's release from Soviet Forces, recruited several talented people in Afghanistan, along with what is described to be an adorable one eyed wolf pup, and seized control of the Diamond Dogs. It seems mother nature has a sense of humor. He hadn't stopped after that, continuing to combat Soviet and XOF forces in the area, but unfortunately it seems that Skullface has created a new model of unknown Metal Gear. Nobody knows anything about it's capabilities yet, beyond it's ability to walk on it's hind legs, but I can't help but feel amused at the idea that Granin's idea of a walking tank has come true at last.

In-spite of Skullfaces forces, V continued to expand the Diamond Dogs, taking more and more missions. It seems he ran into some trouble after awhile, a female assassin and sniper called Quiet because of her refusal to speak, that V decided to Fulton back to Motherbase for questioning. Though looking at her picture it might just be that His interest in dangerous women is as strong as ever. Still the woman is dangerous to the extreme, I only know of two other people who might be able to claim to have sniped the pilot of an enemy aircraft in the middle of a dogfight, one of whom is Big Boss, and the other has been dead for twenty years. Ocelot and V had better keep their eyes sharp while she's around.


March 2nd, 1984: The Metal Gear built by Skullface is known as Sahelanthropus, and looking over the notes sent to me about it's capabilities, I feel sick to my stomach. Some of it is what could be considered 'normal' for a Metal Gear but these...Metallic Archaea and their capabilities are disturbing. The ability to just shutdown any land or air based technology beyond small arms in a localized area, it's archaea blades ability to shape metal and dissolve everything they hit, and it's high powered railgun make sending any kind of conventional force against it basically suicide....but that's not the worst thing. The depleted uranium armor covering it, that it can use to self destruct with the force of a fifteen kiloton nuclear bomb, is horrifying, but that's not the worst part either. No the worse part is that, because of resource constraints in it's creation, it can only be piloted by a AI, or a child. Knowing how twisted Skullface is I'm not sure which is worse.

Still that's only the start of the bad news. XOF pulled out of the Middle East and headed to Africa with the goal of 'developing a weapon to surpass Metal Gear'. The invention of Metal Gear has altered the world of warfare forever. What could that madman hope to create that surpasses those machines of nuclear destruction? I fear what the answer to that question might be.


April 5th, 1984: V found Eli. Apparently my son the boy has grown into a child warlord, leading a band of marauding child soldiers that have been raiding nearby villages, but even so he is alive. V defeated him in combat and then took him back to Mother Base, so he is safe for now, but the reports about his mental state are extremely concerning. Intelligent, driven, charismatic, but with a burning hatred for almost everything around him, and especially for Big Boss. I can only hope V is capable of calming his rage, for if Eli is lost to it, and if he truly did inherit his father's potential, then the world might not survive his hatred.


May 4th, 1984: V has managed to secure the liberation and cooperation of C, and with him, comes all his knowledge regarding Skullface's secret weapon. I will not record what we learned within these pages, or anywhere else, the knowledge is too dangerous to ever be allowed to spread. While we do not yet know what Skullface's full plan is, we do know what his final goal is, and with what he has found....I am terrified that he might succeed. I can only hope V is capable of stopping him, for if he cannot, then even Ishmael surfacing might not be enough to save this world.

The potential benefits of C's research for humanity is staggering...and only eclipsed by the death and horror that it can invoke in the wrong hands. For all that its potential is great, I fear it must never be known to the world at large, humanity would not survive with this knowledge available to those who would misuse it.

C's story is a harsh one, that proves just how much harm the United States has caused over the years, and I can only wonder how many more people like him are out there. Hurt and scarred by the US's actions but lacking the capability to truly fight back. I wonder what she would think if she knew what her home country's actions have caused?


July 4th, 1984: It is all over save for the clean up. Skullface is dead, the results of C's research have been destroyed, Sahelanthropus has been heavily damaged but taken to Mother Base, and his plans have been foiled. The threat he posed to the world is over. Pieces of XOF remain, but they are scattered, leaderless, and all members of That Unit have been confirmed KIA with their corpses completely incinerated. MSF has been avenged after almost a decade, along with Major Zero, so now comes the rebuilding and the healing. I wonder...what will V do now that his war for revenge is over?


August 5th, 1984: I underestimated V's emotional strength. My worries regarding his combat abilities were proven false months ago, but I always feared and wondered what V would do once Skullface was dead, and I have my answer. He was right when he called V 'The Best Man We Had'. He wasted no time in recovering what remained of C's research notes that were still in XOF's possession and in doing so the chances of that research becoming known to the world at large has been almost completely erased. I'll sleep easier knowing the world is unlikely to ever be threatened by that again. Even so....it looks like the compassion found in his former self is shinning through. The resources the Diamond Dogs dedicated to helping the Kurdish against the Turk invasion weren't insignificant, but looking at what V found in that village, I can't say I'm surprised.

The girl, who called him Saladin, she looks so much like me....did that influence his decision making?

Not only did V bring the villagers back to Mother Base, he started a basic education program, for the refugees and his own soldiers. Apparently the more first world members of the Diamond Dogs were up in arms about it, but when they saw the reactions of their second and third world comrades, they understood. V is giving them the knowledge necessary to live lives outside of being a solider...but he shouldn't be able to do that. Nor should he be willing and able to disarm the nuclear missile that deterred the world powers from acting against him.

The plan for Outer Heaven, it was...it is...made to be carried out under the concept of nuclear deterrence, and giving solders who could do nothing besides fight a place to belong.

V...he's refusing the policy of nuclear deterrence...that soldiers can only fight for the rest of their lives. Ocelot sent me a recording of his conversation with Miller while they were discussing this.

Miller: "Without nuclear capability and with Sahelanthropus all but unknown to the world at large, we've just painted a target on our backs, Snake."

V: "I know. But one day the world won't need us. No guns, no bombs. No one to pull the trigger."

V: "We have no tomorrow, but there is still hope for the future."

Miller: "Snake?"

V: "It's nothing. Just… something someone told me a long time ago. In our struggle to survive the present we push away the tomorrow."

Miller: "The future huh… somehow I doubt we'll live to see it. I guess this means we have no time to waste."

V: "Hrm. We have to build a better future for the generations that come after us. Our legacy."

Miller: "We'll need to get stronger. Far stronger than we ever were."

V: "And we will. But we won't sacrifice our humanity for power. We'll starve the demons within us by walking a different path."


Boss....were we....were all of us...wrong this entire time?


September 2nd, 1984: I....I do not even know where to begin. The events of this past month...the repercussions to that madman's insane....no calm down...start with the less important parts.

The female sniper, Quiet, was actually the XOF assassin sent after V and Ishmael while they were in the hospital. They discovered this, because they were forced to give her a MRI, after she jumped into a massive tank of chlorine disinfectant. The results showed that her lungs were a charred and blacked mess, with a Star of Bethlehem petal lodged inside the damaged tissue. Combined with her additions, it was obvious as to who she was, and who she used to work for. Miller interrogated her, but instead of treating her like an enemy agent, he calmly questioned her after having her shoved in a hospital gown to reduce her ability to breath and use her powers. He should have been raging against the heavens and trying to electrocute the woman or something, not sitting there and quietly talking things out with her, but I underestimated V and his influence on Miller. It looks like the commander is finally moving past his all consuming hate.

Then...there was the discovery of Strangelove's murder. The fact that Doctor Emmerich murdered the mother of his own child disgusts me, but even knowing what he did, Ahab still chose to speak with the doctor. From what Ocelot witnessed on the security cameras, Doctor Emmerich broke down in tears, saying he thought the UN Inspection nine years ago was real, but no words were said regarding Strangelove's death. It looks like even he can't bring himself to lie about or argue against that. He isn't long for this world, or more likely given V's nature, he won't be a member of the Diamond Dogs for much longer.

V and Eli finally spoke to each other. In regards to what, nobody knows, but when Eli was seen again it was obvious he was thinking about something. I can only hope V managed to start him on a path free of hatred. The thought of him and Eli fighting against each other....it breaks my heart.

Finally...the news that has rocked the entire world to it's core.

V...no...AHAB....is a madman. An absolutely insane madman, who just stole away or disarmed every nuclear missile and bomb in the world, save for those possessed by China, the Soviet Union, and the United States. He and his best operatives headed out with assistance provided by Quiet, Ocelot, Ahab's pet wolf, and they managed to disarmed or sabotage atleast a third of the worlds nuclear arsenal! This message of a world without the threat of nuclear war....people all over the world are talking about what Ahab and his soldiers have done....and the world leaders aren't happy about it. They fear that the Diamond Dogs may target their own nuclear arsenals next, and given how utterly insane Ahab has shown himself, how dedicated he is to proving to the world there is a better way....they very well may be right.

With the success of this mission....The plan for Outer Heaven has become impossible to complete. If he were to reveal himself now, after what Ahab has done, no one would side with him. Not the people of the world, not the soldiers being shown there is a better way, and...not even Ahab himself I fear. If he tried to carry through with his original plan....he and Ahab would confront each other, only one of them would walk away alive, and I do not know who it might be....or who I would want it to be.

This isn't the world that The Boss wanted....but that doesn't make it wrong.

Regardless...the World Powers will move against the Diamond Dogs for this. They will need all the help they can get in order to survive which means it's time for me to do my part. I don't have the power to give them the kind of army they would need to fight off the world, and I can't give them technology to put the rest of the world to shame, but I can give them the resources to eventually do those things on their own.

I'll put my faith you, Ahab, and in the future without nuclear war that you are showing us is possible. I want to see the world you are trying to build. The Boss might not have done what you've done....but I don't think she would disapprove.

After all....you are The Man Who Healed The World.

@konamikode
Word Count: 2,332
 
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Grew up in Daegu for a few years before moving back to the states and coming back for high school in Seoul. Then I ended up getting stationed back in Seoul after I enlisted.

I've got family all over the peninsula so I've pretty much visited every major region, landmark, and famous restaurant in the country :p

Seriously? Those were pretty expensive in my experience.
You know it's really gone wrong when someone's incompetent and that's a positive.
That is hilariously sad.
 
June 3rd, 1984: It is all over save for the clean up. Skullface is dead, the results of C's research have been destroyed, Sahelanthropus has been heavily damaged but taken to Mother Base, and his plans have been foiled. The threat he posed to the world is over. Pieces of XOF remain, but they are scattered, leaderless, and all members of That Unit have been confirmed KAI with their corpses completely incinerated. MSF has been avenged after almost a decade, along with Major Zero, so now comes the rebuilding and the healing. I wonder...what with V do now that his war for revenge is over?

I think this should be KIA not KAI.
I don't see any other mistakes though.
 
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