- Location
- Erebus
I agree. WE don't need them. I just think letting Eidolon have them will help....anyone.
Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
Best kind of diplomacy. Isn't this how it works IRL? Besides, peacefully might not be the right word. We used to be like "I'm not sure you should leave, but if you do, you can join us", so I don't think we should suddenly change it to "Leave them and join us", rather "Let's see if we can make them improve situation, if not, you can join us"
Eidolon is the strongest person in the world, full stop, because Scion is dead. He has been helping people for significantly longer than Taylor has been alive. Helping the strongest hero in the world remain so is a very positive thing.
Yeah, he's rude and kind of an asshole, but that doesn't erase his stellar record of heroism. Keeping him strong is worth much more than two vial capes, especially since the propagation of magic is going to bring back the government's monopoly of power on its own.
Simply put, there are things that Eidolon can do that are just out of reach for lesser capes. Enabling him to do those things a little longer is a good thing.
Honestly I'd give Alexandria the vials she asked for just for the information she was promising:
Learning the backstory to Eden and Zion provides a lot of context to the various problems Earth Bet faces.
- Location
- Britain
Hm. I've had a thought: what would happen if you sealed a Parahuman's Linker Core? I know that most don't actually have one, but do you think that could temporarily disable a Parahuman power? Long enough for us to, I don't know, take tissue samples from someone who is normally invulnerable and use them to research her previously-thought incurable form of leukemia?
What I'm saying is, I really enjoy Alexandria in this quest, and want to do something nice for her.
As a final thought, I'm pretty sure that SW won't let us within 200 miles of actually doing this idea, but would it be possible to develop an injection using the mutation tech we've got to give people Linker Cores? Even a D-Rank one, and we'd be able to make Eidolon a very, very happy man
What I'm saying is, I really enjoy Alexandria in this quest, and want to do something nice for her.
As a final thought, I'm pretty sure that SW won't let us within 200 miles of actually doing this idea, but would it be possible to develop an injection using the mutation tech we've got to give people Linker Cores? Even a D-Rank one, and we'd be able to make Eidolon a very, very happy man
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Fully agree. I would VERY MUCH like to have a social with Miss Militia, with Chevalier, or with BOTH - specifically to listen to the other side. So far we've mostly seen Vista's opinion, perhaps her nominal guardians/superiors need to hear it from someone who isn't close enough to the issue to lose temper if told "no we won't let Vista go on patrols", not immediately.
Even if they are seeing the writing on the wall, and even though we WILL be taking Vista's side on the issue - I feel that we ought to hear them out. Just, ask them why they are acting in this manner - as opposed to telling them Vista is going to quit at this rate.
Hoyden
Hugbot v0.28
- Location
- UK
Hmm, Vista is still a kid, well Taylor is too, but I can see Chevvy causing problems for us if she jumps ship.
From their point of view we've already cost her an arm, and then given her tinkertech that makes her dependent on us for repairs. On top of everything else it looks like we're trying to steal the high end Shaker
From their point of view we've already cost her an arm, and then given her tinkertech that makes her dependent on us for repairs. On top of everything else it looks like we're trying to steal the high end Shaker
Tassadar
The Overlord of Cakes & Toucans!
We gave her a arm which has self-repair.
And we also just gave them mages.
Rajvik_wolfboy
Wolf amongst the stars.
- Location
- Florida
That's what I was thinking about as well. Even if nothing comes from it, at least we will show them we are not enemies. Plus, we are more than just a strong cape, we are actually important, so we might actually mamange to do something.
Hoyden
Hugbot v0.28
- Location
- UK
@Rajvik_wolfboy that was the point I was aiming at. If we do nothing Vista will eventually quit the Wards, and it'll look like we encouraged it.
We should be thinking damage control before that happens, without upsetting Vista too much. MM is her guardian, so maybe we should be talking to her directly, possibly unmasking as a show of trust.
Make it clear we didn't plan this, but we'll support our friend. Or some other such.
We should be thinking damage control before that happens, without upsetting Vista too much. MM is her guardian, so maybe we should be talking to her directly, possibly unmasking as a show of trust.
Make it clear we didn't plan this, but we'll support our friend. Or some other such.
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
Can i say i like this Vista. realy like her
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Correct. I honestly couldn't be bothered finding all the minor hints references to calculate her age so made it simple: Vista triggered when she was ten and immediately joined the Wards, and she's now just a couple of months away from her fourteenth birthday. So four years. My statement of five years in the post you quoted was an error on my part, however.
Wouldn't do jack about their parahuman power. Shard powers and magic powers are completely independent.
I have already said that you CAN do this. There's a post here describing how that would work. I also said a few posts down from there that Eidolon is honestly too bitter about his dwindling powers to take you up on that offer.
Well, if you just want information on the other side of the topic, keep in mind that next chapter is a Chevalier interlude. You might get more information from that than they would be willing to offer to a 16 year old independent. Just saying.
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I'm curious; what do you expect to get out of this? Because I thought Chevalier's response during Heatstroke:
Wards are not supposed to be getting involved in fights and it is the job of the Protectorate to keep them out of danger whenever possible because they are children.
As I've said before; this is a very reasonable position. Thirteen year olds should not be getting into fights and especially not ones where serious injury or death are expected outcomes. Doing anything other then what he is currently doing would be illegal and immoral. He could certainly be nicer about things but I doubt Vista has made that easy, especially in the wake of her maiming.
Personally I fully expect that if we do meet with MM and CV it will end in them lecturing us about how irresponsible we are being for allowing and encouraging Vista's ideas about fighting. The worst thing is they would be completely right. Calamity Witch enabling Vista is, from an objective viewpoint, really shady and questionable. We should be encouraging her to move past and recover from her history as a child soldier not encouraging her to delve deeper into it.
Now as a player I'm fully behind recruiting Vista to our team and I certainly sympathize with her plight. I also acknowledge that it is perfectly within Taylor's established characterization to ignore Vista's age in favor of her personality and capabilities. As an adult however I find this behavior really questionable even from the stance that maturity isn't solely dependent upon age.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Which may be telling in its own right. What they omit and what they don't.
Thing is, we're not remotely qualified for that and it would end up with her resenting us as well and being completely isolated/alone. Her child soldier status is nigh unfixable at this point, sadly. If it had been noticed and addressed perhaps a couple years earlier, things might be different.
The problem I see with Chev right now is talking about what should be ("She shouldn't be in the position...") and forgets that not everything in the world is as it should be. So what if the 14-old girl shouldn't be fighting when she matured fighting, her only friend is fighting and can warp space?
Chev should at least try to find the compromise. Instead he pushes back and harder. Who in the right mind punishes a (as he considers her) kid for few mean words to her superior by making her spend a week observing from console the very reason she spoke those words?
Chev should at least try to find the compromise. Instead he pushes back and harder. Who in the right mind punishes a (as he considers her) kid for few mean words to her superior by making her spend a week observing from console the very reason she spoke those words?
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
A thought:
What happens if Chevalier decides to make an exception for Vista and let her fight villains as she wants, if he manages to pull it off without provoking Youth Guard outrage?
It will cause an outrage amongst other Wards. Just like adults, they'll ignore Vista's combat experience, pointing at her age instead. "How it's possible that you're putting so much restrictions on me while that girl, a year younger than me, is free to patrol as she wants? Who cares I have much less experience than her! I would have totally become as great hero as she if you stop suppressing my potential!"
What happens if Chevalier let Vista go, without doing his utmost to stop her?
It will make a bad precedent for the Wards too. I'm sure most of them, just like Taylor, don't know they can pull out any moment and nobody can stop them. Some of them will try to follow her example. Surely they will become great independent heroes and actually make a difference! If some little girl from Philly has managed, they certainly can pull it off too!
Poor Chevalier. He's probably cursing that day higher-ups decided to send Vista in his city.
What happens if Chevalier decides to make an exception for Vista and let her fight villains as she wants, if he manages to pull it off without provoking Youth Guard outrage?
It will cause an outrage amongst other Wards. Just like adults, they'll ignore Vista's combat experience, pointing at her age instead. "How it's possible that you're putting so much restrictions on me while that girl, a year younger than me, is free to patrol as she wants? Who cares I have much less experience than her! I would have totally become as great hero as she if you stop suppressing my potential!"
What happens if Chevalier let Vista go, without doing his utmost to stop her?
It will make a bad precedent for the Wards too. I'm sure most of them, just like Taylor, don't know they can pull out any moment and nobody can stop them. Some of them will try to follow her example. Surely they will become great independent heroes and actually make a difference! If some little girl from Philly has managed, they certainly can pull it off too!
Poor Chevalier. He's probably cursing that day higher-ups decided to send Vista in his city.
You have a point. But if Chevalier does his best to stop her and still fails, what kind of message would that send?
And he is also cursing that day because we came to the city, not just Vista, we had a choice after all.
Maybe Alexandria could help? Make Vista her protege or something? No one would have problem if a cape chosen personally by Alexandria got into some fights, right? And it's not like we have nothing to offer Alexandria in exchange...
- Location
- Belfast
Vista, on paper the Ward everyone really wants to have in their city (who wouldn't want the Shaker 9?) in practice... Yeah, a Vista who's been uprooted from Brockton, has all her canon issues (and probably more since as far as I can tell she did love her parents even if she couldn't stand dealing with their nonsense), and has been relegated to a support position at best (even if it's the objectively correct thing for Chevalier to do)... She's not gonna be happy with things in the slightest.
Add in the fact that she 'knows' Taylor gets to do all sorts of cool things as an independent, and the fact that she got a useful prosthetic from her 'faction' and you can see exactly where she would be planning for an exit from the Wards she likely views as stifling her.
Really, it's all a huge mess that's been building for a long time, and there's very few ways I can see to defuse it given how the PRT and Protectorate almost have to deal with it.
Add in the fact that she 'knows' Taylor gets to do all sorts of cool things as an independent, and the fact that she got a useful prosthetic from her 'faction' and you can see exactly where she would be planning for an exit from the Wards she likely views as stifling her.
Really, it's all a huge mess that's been building for a long time, and there's very few ways I can see to defuse it given how the PRT and Protectorate almost have to deal with it.
- Location
- Georgia
Things I want to do in no particular order:
- Organise a meeting of Legend and the Enforcers. Ask what exactly the TSAB brings on the Endbringer battle.
- Give vials to Alexandria. I think giving a boost to Eidolon for the Endbringer battle will be more useful than creating our own Caldron capes.
- Hang out with Vista. Maybe on another world (Earth-Aleph?).
- Hang out with Laura. Ask innocently would her complaints about horribly overstretched heroes still apply if the city's heroes suddenly doubles in numbers, while the PRT troopers become much more capable. Purely hypothetical, of course.
- Hang out with Adepts? Tell them about our efforts to distribute magic across the PRT. They could become valuable experts if they find a way to repair the bridges with them.
- Test Ragnarok? I'm not sure it's good idea to receive mana poisoning right before the Endbringer battle.
The first isn't going to happen. This has been explicitly stated by SW repeatedly. They will coordinate to some extent at the actual battle, but they won't meet up ahead of time with a high ranking government official . The leeway they have to talk to us and Dragon is not present when dealing with any government employee of a planet that is not at the TSAB's minimum cultural maturity level.
I disagree strongly on giving Alexandria both of them. One vial might be worth it, though, because even though we know Eden's corpse has been destroyed, we do not know that Scion's was likewise destroyed. He's dead, yes, that's been stated, but what happened to his real body when he had a very human meltdown on his projection's end is unknown.
3 & 4: Vista is at a social max, but I agree to bringing her along on some of what we do. Patrolling with Cailleach might be the best way to show Vista that Cailleach is more hero than villain.
5: I support social with the Adepts, preferably involving Lacey and Tim, too. Lacey talking to Maclibuin may be a great help in getting her comfortable with a more active heroing role.
We've tested Ragnarok in simulation, a long time ago. I'm pretty certain that SW said that way back when, not too long after unlocking the spell, back when some were talking about what happens between on screen updates, but I confess I might be misremembering an omake as being canon. I highly doubt we would learn enough from using it outside of the simulator to warrant a case of mana poisoning even if there weren't an Endbringer fight looming.
@Silently Watches Would a social with Lacey and the Adepts cost a time slot both for Taylor AND Lacey?
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
Talking with Chevalier does sound like a good idea to me. After all, we still haven't discussed him telling the PRT our real age without our permission, and I'd like to finally take care of that one way or another. We could discuss Vista's situation with him without going into what she told us in confidence, and maybe a semi-outside perspective on that might help him figure out that he's only serving to make Vista more and more frustrated, potentially to the point of leaving.
I think this bares repeating; losing Vista sucks but it now matters a hell of a lot less then it used to and in a couple weeks will barely be worth noting.
By my count the local Protectorate and Wards consists of:
Protectorate:
- Chevaliar
- Miss Militia
- Sere
- Vista
- Flambe
- Cherry Bomb
- Starmetal
Meanwhile thanks to Calamity Witch they now have 30 Guardian Beasts of which 14 are non-Gears and thus serious combatants. That alone is 4.3x their current numbers and 3.5x their number of combatants. On top of that they have 6 Mages with B-Rank or better Linker Cores which are generally better then the average Cape and 11 C-Rankers who with a device are at least worth something.
All of these Mages and Guardian Beasts are adults and thus go right into the Protectorate. That is 47 new 'Capes' of which 20 are solid combatants. All of this is on top of all the regular PRT troopers soon to be equipped with relatively cheap power armor that effectively makes them low tier capes.
Honestly speaking the AA-Ranker alone is probably worth loosing Vista from a pure practicality standpoint. They are an adult with an array of high level cape abilities. All the rest just make Vista an easy loss.
Seriously just to put things in a really clear perspective here is what things will look like post-mages and post-Vista:
Protectorate:
- Chevaliar
- Miss Militia
- Sere
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #1
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #2
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #3
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #4
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #5
- Guardian Beast of the Sword / Rifle #6
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #1
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #2
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #3
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #4
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #5
- Guardian Beast of the Shield / Tome #6
- Guardian Beast of the Mask #1
- Guardian Beast of the Mask #2
- AA-Rank Mage
- A-Rank Mage #1
- A-Rank Mage #2
- B-Rank Mage #1
- B-Rank Mage #2
- B-Rank Mage #3
- C-Rank Mage #1
- C-Rank Mage #2
- C-Rank Mage #3
- C-Rank Mage #4
- C-Rank Mage #5
- C-Rank Mage #6
- C-Rank Mage #7
- C-Rank Mage #8
- C-Rank Mage #9
- C-Rank Mage #10
- C-Rank Mage #11
- Flambe
- Cherry Bomb
- Starmetal
*Seriously Brockton Bay had just 59 capes and it was in the Top Ten in the entire country. So adding in those 16 Gears would bring the total Protectorate/Wards to 53 or just 6 'Capes' short of the entirety of Brockton Bay.