Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
~snip another round of this vexing argument on para-mages~
For God's sake!
I have specifically posted an omake, TWO of them, about how a single spell is BOTH useful AND doesn't detract from the parahuman's parahuman powers, no matter the level of their linker core.
Guardian Beast.
I don't understand how everyone keeps disregarding that. An autonomous combatant, with their own decision making processes, with their own not-insiginificant number of spells known, with an inbuilt communication with their partner, with an innate forcefield for protection...
Why? Why does it get ignored???
Ahem. Forgive my loss of composure. Again, this is a thoroughly vexing argument.
Vote (thanks @Shaseyu yours is more streamlined actually)
[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.
- Location
- Britain
So it turns out I can't read, which means me being in this thread is damned impressive. Still, we can dish out Alexandria Packages like candy to B-ranks and above, with the strength coming from straight training. Can you imagine how terrifying turning a group of 100 people with Linker Cores into an average of ten flying bricks?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Because folks like you, me, and Land? We give a shit about remembering things, about thinking in the long-term. Others just tune in for a good time and doesn't give more than half a shit.
Welcome to how the hardcore/casual divide got made.
I don't think it does. The description for it in our spell list mentions a damage-reducing forcefield, no mention of strength enhancement. That part is likely from the Passive skill Improved Physique.
I think this is going a little too far. We all need to step back and simmer down some.
Edit: Adjusted name of spell.
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Alayne
The Reader
- Location
- Home of the Vikings
[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.
- Location
- Britain
Yeah, I realised that I'd repeated myself, hence the editing out of that particular part. Also, I had a look at the Nanoha wiki and realised it didn't say anything about strength enhancement, and people like you, me, Always Late, Faraway-R and Silently, we take the details seriously. Yeah, it's too serious and we should probably all take a chill pill, but we're the same people we pick up a sourcebook for a tabletop RPG and fine the minutae on how one ability works to find that one loophole. We're the people that find the exploit that turns a bonus to Jumping into a bonus to Diplomacy, then uses movespeed bonuses to get +many to Jumping and effectively mind control an entire town by jumping over it. It's us that comes up with builds like Pun-Pun and Chronomancer Prime, and it's us that'll put thought into arguments about what spells we'll give people.
As it is, though, the main things we want to be looking at giving people are Guardian Beast and Wide Area Search, for long-range support types, Flight and Barrier Jacket, for anyone who's gonna be anywhere near melee, and [Flare/Rust] Shooter and Ring Bing, maybe Telekinesis, for people who either already have a strong Alexandria Package or who should be fighting at range due to not being able to take a hit. This is, of course, assuming we want to boost strengths instead of shoring up weaknesses. If we want to shore up weaknesses, everyone gets Barrier Jacket. EVERYONE. Being able to take a Blaster/Striker-tier hit when you were a regular-ass squishy meat suit before is such a massive difference, and if we can give them a second spell? Wide Area Search. Suddenly, everyone is a tactical surveilance emplacement, and we have a near-perfect survelance net for anything resembling a big boy fight.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
I, for one, just don't like an idea of creating sapient creature, inseparably chained to the master, just to fight/work for that master.
On the other hand, that's the Galean way, and is there any way better than the Galean way?
Of course not.
Glory to Galea.*
*This message was delivered to you by your friendly neighborhood Immortal Assimilation Engine. Glory to Galea.
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[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
It is Belkan actually.
LancerisDead
Definitely not a cat
- Location
- Buenos Aires
That sounds a lot like heresy.
You better not start being heretical, for it's considered treason to the crown and your Empress.
The quick and simple summation of Galean investigation into such situations:
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- Location
- USA
Not... entirely seeing how you can include yourself in the "smart/not-casual-scrub" group here, since you are the loudest voice currently on how Deviceless Mages are so useless we shouldn't even bother to /scan/ people because it would just be a waste of their parahuman powers for them to start using spell(s) all of the time.
When Faraway's whole point was the huge impact that a single spell (assuming guardian beast ritual is an option) could have even from using it literally once and afterwards forgetting about magic forever.
---
Considering how much of the argument is on "low rank mages are useless", can we just drop the detailed cost benefit arguments until we have actual scanned parahumans to discuss with specifics? If scanning is ever a freebie "doesn't waste time" option (like I thought it was for the vista-surgery votes....still have no idea how or why we didn't scan her there, I guess some crappy quirk of band-wagoning) I don't care if you think magic would be worse for them than anyone else, lets at least check if its even an option and whether new info (say a freakish natural S rank with rare skills or something?) changes matters?
Aside from players (who always want to scheme naturally, since its a game they're effectively graded on by result of actions), isn't it pretty awkwardly controlling of Taylor to just not even offer Vista the option because she thinks it wouldn't be a net tactical gain? Like if she decides she wants to be a magical girl would we really say "Nope sorry I have plans for you and that is a waste of your utility" ? Argue the merits with her as an informed friend, sure, but hard refuse someone close enough that its not a matter of "You're a stranger why should I bother handing out anything" ?
What's the tradeoff even if she is a D rank?
She gains a minor additional power (spell) that does not diminish her existing powers, except that it might mean she can't do something that requires all her concentration while using the other power SIMULTANEOUSLY. She can even still use the basic stuff her power does while using the new power.
The only tradeoff is that she needs to spend some time learning and practicing it on her own when she could be doing something else for fun. So in quest terms she's not available for a "Hanging Out" or "patrol" action for a turn or two.
Also, we don't have the list from Infinite Enhancement mage, nor the full list of basics for Extinction Knight (Remember, the FAQ says we could get more spells if we learn all the basics of all the knight spells). There could be more useful first tier spells in Infinite Enhancement as it is a SUPPORT CLASS, and giving Miss Militia or Vista a support ability can be useful.
Given that it costs us nothing to scan either of our two friends (and we really need to start making more friends, and possibly recruiting mage allies) and there is NO trade-off to teaching a para human device-less magic other than the magic would be weaker (half strength) than a device mage, but does not diminish their existing abilities at all, only gives them more options, I just cannot understand the resistance to doing this.
A few minor tricks can make the difference between life and death. It can be an ace in the hole to pull out when needed.
Look at what the Dragonslayer did with that Strong Shield. Think what a Ring Bind might also do or telekenisis. Even a barrier jacket might have some utility as it means they can summon their costume anywhere with a minor brute rating (for a D rank mage it would be weaker than our S rank jacket) as a bonus.
That alone might help some of the wards as they would not have to worry about hiding their costume, and can slip away to chance much faster and easier, when they get into a situation where "this looks like a job for...(Vista/Miss Militia, etc)."
Somebody else has already extolled the virtues of Guardian Beast.
Wide Area Search is another incredibly useful spell. It can help with Search and Rescue, or to help find the location of bad guys to get her the information needed to use her main power effectively. I would say that it would be invaluable to any of the Protectorate or Wards.
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Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
... is a single spell assistive casting device still a Device? Like, say, something to help cast only a shooter spell, or only cast Guardian Beast, and nothing more?
- Location
- Britain
That is actually an excellent question, and brings me back to 3.5e analogies - @Silently Watches can we make an item that uses mana cartridges to cast a spell? Like, say, a pistol that casts Burst Shooters, or a set of binoculars that cast Wide Area Search. That way, we teach them to make their own cartridges and make them the items that cast the spells. Everyone gets every spell. Yeah, it's an exploit, but it's a fun one.
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
We could always just have PS print out a training manual if we didn't have enough time to train her ourselves.
There's (potentially) an error in your premise (granted, I don't think I read those particular omakes):
Emphasis mine.
A guardian beast would still be drawing mana from them; and if that constant drain isn't enough to lower the parahuman ability, they'd still lose it whenever they used an active skill related to the GB's, such as telepathy. Possibly even when the GB used telepathy to contact us.
We'd probably need @Silently Watches to chime in for us to know for sure if what you suggest would work.
I'm not included in the list of long-term thinkers? When almost my entire argument from day 1 about scanning Vista (or any parahuman) was based on the long-term view? Or am I just short-sighted because my long-term view is different than yours?
Victim of plan-based voting, and the winning plan being written by one of the people who was against scanning Vista at the time.
To this day, I still can't understand why some people are/were so against even scanning her.
It costs us a time slot, unless we get it wrapped into a vote with something else (I think it's getting switched over to the social slot if SW still plans to incorporate that); it's just in the specific situation we/Vista were in we could have done it for free, and it would have even fit in flawlessly with the narrative at the time (fitting her for the new arm).
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
No. I explicitly say that in the FAQ.
Mana cost does not impact parahuman abilities. To use the analogy I've used before, Vista's powers would be limited while casting a spell because she can't twist space like a pretzel and perform high-level math on her head at the same time. A passive mana drain does not require concentration or even thought.
- Location
- Britain
Once again, my reading comprehension (or rather, lack thereof) leaves me in awe of my presence in this thread. Good to know, though, and giving people cartridge access might be useful for people with B-rank cores who can't throw around that much raw mana and want to be able to due the extreme range nuking that we do. Or hell, just getting some people to produce cartridges for us for payment - trading money for passive thermonuclear obliteration generation seems legit to me.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Well, the author has spoken. No problem or interference of Guardian Beast and parahuman powers confirmed as is the case for any passive mana drain.
On the "I don't think I read those particular omakes" note, I'm honestly hurt. I consider those two my most cherished work of all the omakes I did for this thread.
Vista Gets a Pet! and Everybody Gets a Pet! by Faraway-R
Here's the links. Also, don't forget to consider the response pertaining to the possible scenario I described in the 2nd omake.
And finally, my elaboration on that response.
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- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
OK, so I did read those 2 omakes, was just a while ago, lol.
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
You could ask someone to beta it. Or if you just post it people will (it's impossible to get them not to) post corrections, lol.Those two omakes were actually so entertaining that they inspired my first piece of creative writing in 20 years
It wasn't very good so I am not posting it : P
If it is related to this thread, and longer than a few paragraphs, you should post it anyways, because it'll get you a training point to assign to any of Taylor or Tim's skills.
Oh well, YOLO
This was the result of thinking about the kind of things the adepts would be exited about. When I researched the adepts more I remembered about the master that made blaster birds. No mater how much I tried to write that conversation all I could actually write was this little slice of the aftermath.
Felix couldn't believe he was doing this; couldn't believe he allowed himself to be talked into something this horrifying. It didn't matter to him that his powers looked impressive and that he was the most senior Adept without an arrest warrant. It DID matter to him that he had one of the two A class linker cores among the adepts and that this was a necessary step to getting help from Calamity Witch.
With one final sigh and last minute adjustments to the flaming falcon on his shoulder he stepped through the door and up to the podium. The few that actually turned up looked at him with the mix of morbid curiosity and disdain that he had seen all too often. Nonetheless, he had a job to do and it was best to just get the unpleasantness over with.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this press conference was called to announce that the Adepts are soon going to be reorganized into an independent hero team. We have always considered ourselves primarily researchers into the magical powers we possess and have never been considered a serious threat to the public by the PRT, so we expect there to be relatively few problems going forward."
A month ago he would have been angry at the looks he got from the reporters when he said the word "magical." Now all he could feel was satisfied with the absolute knowledge that they were wrong and going to have that fact shoved in their face sometime very soon. When Calamity Witch had laid out her plans and timetable to spread magical knowledge to the Adepts, PRT and then the public he had been gobsmacked. When she was backed up by Legend and Dragon of all people even Epoch was stunned.
"We have all recently joined a think-tank dedicated to the expansion of magical knowledge. Over the next six months we will be working closely with the PRT as a form of probation."
While he enjoyed the thoughts of people looking back on that statement several months from now he was glad that his part of this farce was almost done. He looked over at the PRT spokesman and nodded.
"I will turn you all over to Mr. Stevenson for further comment."
As the slightly overweight forty-something started talking I couldn't help thinking about all that I learned at yesterday's meeting and all that was coming in the next few days. I was going to learn a ritual that would allow me to uplift an animal into a sapient hominoid changer. After four years of long and involved rituals that gave small and temporary boosts to my Magic I was going to learn a ritual that allowed me to massively improve my familiar! I am not going to go so far as Thirteenth Hour and trade my current magical powers for a different set but it will definitely be interesting to watch how that works out for her.
While I was tuning him out Stevenson had clearly finished and started to answer questions. I wanted to send my falcon after the muckraking sensationalist hack who asked Stevenson how a bunch of "villainous magical cultists" could be of any help whatsoever to the PRT or any think-tank "that actually thinks."
"Because they have proven effective at improving and diversifying parahuman powers." Was an equivocation I could get behind even if the follow up of "Just because my grandmother thinks her iPhone is magical doesn't stop it from being useful" made me want to hurt him.
I know that Calamity Witch, Dragon and Legend wanted the verifiable existence of magic to stay within the confines of the PRT for a few more months for strategic reasons. It was still getting progressively less satisfying and more difficult to watch this ignorant yammering continue.
Honestly, the things I will put up with for even more bad-ass familiars.
With one final sigh and last minute adjustments to the flaming falcon on his shoulder he stepped through the door and up to the podium. The few that actually turned up looked at him with the mix of morbid curiosity and disdain that he had seen all too often. Nonetheless, he had a job to do and it was best to just get the unpleasantness over with.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this press conference was called to announce that the Adepts are soon going to be reorganized into an independent hero team. We have always considered ourselves primarily researchers into the magical powers we possess and have never been considered a serious threat to the public by the PRT, so we expect there to be relatively few problems going forward."
A month ago he would have been angry at the looks he got from the reporters when he said the word "magical." Now all he could feel was satisfied with the absolute knowledge that they were wrong and going to have that fact shoved in their face sometime very soon. When Calamity Witch had laid out her plans and timetable to spread magical knowledge to the Adepts, PRT and then the public he had been gobsmacked. When she was backed up by Legend and Dragon of all people even Epoch was stunned.
"We have all recently joined a think-tank dedicated to the expansion of magical knowledge. Over the next six months we will be working closely with the PRT as a form of probation."
While he enjoyed the thoughts of people looking back on that statement several months from now he was glad that his part of this farce was almost done. He looked over at the PRT spokesman and nodded.
"I will turn you all over to Mr. Stevenson for further comment."
As the slightly overweight forty-something started talking I couldn't help thinking about all that I learned at yesterday's meeting and all that was coming in the next few days. I was going to learn a ritual that would allow me to uplift an animal into a sapient hominoid changer. After four years of long and involved rituals that gave small and temporary boosts to my Magic I was going to learn a ritual that allowed me to massively improve my familiar! I am not going to go so far as Thirteenth Hour and trade my current magical powers for a different set but it will definitely be interesting to watch how that works out for her.
While I was tuning him out Stevenson had clearly finished and started to answer questions. I wanted to send my falcon after the muckraking sensationalist hack who asked Stevenson how a bunch of "villainous magical cultists" could be of any help whatsoever to the PRT or any think-tank "that actually thinks."
"Because they have proven effective at improving and diversifying parahuman powers." Was an equivocation I could get behind even if the follow up of "Just because my grandmother thinks her iPhone is magical doesn't stop it from being useful" made me want to hurt him.
I know that Calamity Witch, Dragon and Legend wanted the verifiable existence of magic to stay within the confines of the PRT for a few more months for strategic reasons. It was still getting progressively less satisfying and more difficult to watch this ignorant yammering continue.
Honestly, the things I will put up with for even more bad-ass familiars.
This was the result of thinking about the kind of things the adepts would be exited about. When I researched the adepts more I remembered about the master that made blaster birds. No mater how much I tried to write that conversation all I could actually write was this little slice of the aftermath.