A request for a spar is exactly what Escalation does in the memories. Remember Hosts are replacable. If one is lost another can be found relatively quickly. There is no risk to the shards if their Hosts fight. In fact it is expected that Hosts fight.
It's not wrong to make Friends in the Dungeon (Danmachi / Sanctioned [Worm])
Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm not really sure if it's standard, I admit. Anyway, I added a short blurb to the start of each timestamp to try to help with that.
Someone sends a newbie with an encouragement to challenge QA. Sounds familiar?
It is not for what Bell intended it to be, but how he presented it.
Motile Mollusc
Bitten by a radioactive were-tilde
- Location
- Here
Bell: Hello, we've literally just met and I would like to fight you.
Then QA has a flashback to
Escalation: Hello, we've literally just met and I would like to fight you.
QA then remembers that Escalation just kept on trying again and again and again and it was annoying and tiresome and pointless and he never did anything different and so she's not even going to bother with someone who does the same.
- Location
- United States
How about fuzzy black hair... that suddenly extends out like fishing line and becomes a flurry of razorwire spaghetti monster tentacles... would look perfectly cute at first.
- Location
- A Table Near You
I have a feeling this will set the tone for their future interactions.
Bell: "Please pay attention to me, QA-senpai!"
QA: "No."
Bell: <Liaris Freese triggered by sheer neglect>
Was wondering why multiple characters kept calling Loki the top Familia the in Orario. Um, just for the record, @Alivaril? Pretty sure this isn't correct.
Numerically, Freya and Loki are approximately equal, with over a hundred members each. But when comparing First Class Adventurers, Freya holds the clear advantage. She has the only Level 7 in Orario, an equal number of Level 6s (one more if you count Mia Grand), and at least the same number of Level 5s. You can maybe argue Aiz counts as a weak Level 6, but that doesn't come anywhere close to countering Ottar.
(Seriously, dude's OP as hell. Nearly maximized physical stats, a skill which boosts those stats even further, and another that grants passive healing and mind recovery. Ottar might be capable of winning against every one of Loki's First Class Adventurers, at once, by himself.)
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Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*points at Unreliable Narrator tag*
But thanks. Loki is... let's just go with "louder" and leave it at that.
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Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Poor Bell. I'm not sure how else he could have asked for a spar without triggering that reaction from QA. I would really have liked to see them clash... Or for Bell to understand why QA refuses to engage with him.
Seems like dealing with Soma won't exactly be easy either. Hope Dreamer and QA come up with a solution soon!
Seems like dealing with Soma won't exactly be easy either. Hope Dreamer and QA come up with a solution soon!
JadeKaiser
Uninspired Custom Title
- Location
- Under Your Bed
I would like to note that in the context you said that, it's better to just say that she's seen as having the strongest familia in Orario. Not just one of the strongest. Because she canonically is seen as having the strongest familia in Orario. (and therefore the world, because those in Orario are stronger than those outside it because they have access to the dungeon)*points at Unreliable Narrator tag*
But thanks. Loki is... let's just go with "louder" and leave it at that.
Loki is considered as probably the runner up, but Freya having the strongest one is pretty undisputed iirc. Except by Ishtar, but nobody takes her envy seriously on that and in this fic, she doesn't even have a familia anymore.
Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
(I've tried to get out of the habit of answering this sort of thing, but eh, it's important enough.)
In terms of combat strength, yes, Freya is definitely at the top of the pile in both canon and this. However, references to "strongest" don't necessarily equate to combat power; if there were, then Hephaestus would have a tougher time being a contender for one of Orario's strongest Familia despite their ability to severely inconvenience anyone they don't like. Similarly, Demeter is quiet and as apolitical as she can manage, but the sheer amount of food her Familia produces allows enough of an unspoken threat for others to (mostly) leave her alone.
Anyway, there's also political power, which Loki is much quicker to wield than Freya is, and general visibility, which Loki generally holds whenever Freya doesn't feel like getting everyone's attention in one go. It's one of those cases where everyone thinks of a certain person when they hear "Strongest" until you bring up another group, whereupon everyone can immediately agree that it'd be better to call that first person one of the strongest or even weaker than group B.
Alternatively: If you say something loudly and often enough, it still won't be true, but people might start thinking it is.
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Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Mostly.
There are in fact two other 'Great Frontiers ' in the world that are considered equal to the Dungeon in terms of danger and monsters, one of the other two Great Frontiers is the Dragon Valley, the third remains unknown. Fans believe that the other currently living Level 7 is likely found at the third Great Frontier, though that as yet remains unconfirmed.
Actually, three of Loki's Level 6 executives are stated to be capable of fighting Ottar on equal terms due to their specializations countering his abilities effectively; Ottar is a 'Barbarian' type, a massive slab of beef and power that brutes the shit out of anything he can hit. This is an extremely effective methodology in the Dungeon, but other Adventurers who fight smart can exploit the weaknesses of such a style much more effectively than typical Dungeon monsters.
The three executives, incidentally, are Finn; who is too fast for Ottar to hit and can wear him down and overwhelm his healing with precision\critical strikes. Riveria, who can blow Ottar the fuck up with her ridiculously overpowered magic as long as he doesn't reach her first. And Gareth, who can actually match Ottar strength for strength despite being one level lower thanks to his dwarven heritage, as Falna does not take into account external sources of power such as that (also applies to Finn, due to his pre-Falna monk training).
Ottar is very stronk, but he's a long way off from being able to take the entire Loki Familia on solo because his style is heavily specialized for fighting Dungeon monsters and fares poorly against intelligent opponents. His ability to beastify outside of the Dungeon doesn't actually help here, as while beastification can only be used in the open world and does boost his already prodigious physical stats even further, it also greatly reduces his mental capacity and makes him an extremely 1 dimensional fighter, which just exacerbates his weaknesses even further against intelligent opponents. Finn, Riveria and Gareth working together could bring Ottar down without too much difficulty, and any one of them alone could hold him off long enough to call in reinforcements.
In a team fight\war things would be far less clear-cut, but that is the in nature of war and is inherent to any conflict involving large numbers of people; too many variables to take into account.
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- Location
- Philippines
why does this feels like a combination of hair pulling and notice me sempai?
JadeKaiser
Uninspired Custom Title
- Location
- Under Your Bed
Yes, but when there is a specific familia that people universally think of first when people mention "the strongest famila," it is very odd for a character to refer to them as "one of the strongest, though some people think of this other one as stronger." Because canonically, people explicitly don't think of the other one as stronger.
If it were just Hestia expressing her own personal opinion that Loki might actually be a bit stronger, that would be one thing. But Hestia is expressing something about the public opinion on the topic, instead; something that just plain isn't true, at least in canon. I suppose you could say that Hestia just has a bad read on public opinion on this topic, but I can't think of a single reason why she would. At least, not in this particular way.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it's a minor issue. But I can see why they were complaining about it.
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Because it is?
On the other hand, Freya could simply negotiate for a training spar; she's not a fuckwit like Apollo.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
She doesn't like getting involved directly like that though; she considers such overt actions inelegant.
After all, that kind of direct involvement is what minions (well, minion; aka Ottar) are for.
- Location
- A Table Near You
Yeah, I brought it up because I was worried there might have been a misreading of canon. I could buy Hestia being an unreliable narrator; it's when a few other characters said the same thing that I became concerned. In canon, Loki and Freya are typically referred to as the two strongest Familia in Orario, and occasionally Freya as the strongest. AFAIK, there are no examples of the other way around.
Regardless, it's a very minor issue, especially for a crack fic. So long as it's a deliberate authorial choice and not a mistake, it's fine.
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- Location
- Terra-Luna
Well, that went about as expected. At a glance, her recommendation is entirely reasonable and sensible, to the extent that Bell freely admitting her actions is perfectly appropriate and lacking of suspicion. It really is a good idea from her perspective, his perspective, and that of anyone who might hear of it. He's a brand new adventurer; why wouldn't he want to get to know another new one? It'd be "good for him to challenge them", because he's completely green and needs to learn. Of course... Freya just happens to direct him towards someone else whom she likewise wishes to push, foster, and support, and for whom the exact same argument (seemingly, anyway) applies just as well. Without the benefit of awareness of her aims for the two adventurers in question, the scenario sounds as though she just gave a new member of her Familia some good advice... because that's what she did do; it just happens to serve more than the surface purpose. If pressed, Freya can even give a likewise reasonable and believable explanation for sending Bell towards QA in that she simply stood out more to be noticed in the first place.
I wonder just what his gear is for the butterflying. Bell used a knife and started out with a very uninspiring little breastplate... thing at the very beginning of canon. Hestia got him a far better knife and he quickly got a set of proper armour, light though he favoured. I'm curious how things are now, though. As part of the Freya Familia, I expect that he got something better even just on principle even if no one in the Familia cared one whit about the new guy. His purchased armour might well be the same, simply gained earlier, as some hypothetical startup practice of getting new members cheap but, well, solid armour, which is exactly what Bell was looking for when he got it in canon. As for his weapon, though, I wonder if he used a knife in canon because a knife is what he wanted to use, or simply because a knife was what was available to him and then what he knew how to use and in turn ended up having in the form of a very special one that was only commissioned as a knife because such was what Hestia knew him to wield. If he did get a choice here, I'm not sure that we'll see him with a knife, actually; he seems more the sort to like the idea of wielding a sword if not influenced by preexisting actual experience with a knife, and I could easily see his Familia discouraging a knife in any case in favour of something better suited to fighting monsters, even if a weapon that didn't have nearly zero reach, cutting capacity, and penetration happened to cost slightly more, still being an irrelevant trifle to the Freya Familia compared to the virtually destitute Bell and Hestia, and it would be an investment in any case.
I would love to see how this develops. Hestia's purview is well suited to fostering positive encouragement, and QA herself is similarly well suited toward directing others to be highly lethal. Between the two of them, Lili could get terrifying. She's already accurate enough with her little crossbow to put out the eyes of moving targets; imagine what she would be like with determination to be the very best murder-loli that she can possibly be to cheerfully slaughter her way through hordes of monsters to the cheers of her big sister and return to be greeted by Hestia with a beaming smile and headpats as she boasts how proud she is of Lili as she holds up a big sack of coin... spattered with the blood of her enemies.
This could get interesting. As said, such magic is reflective... but what happens when someone undergoes character development? And what if that is for the influence of a crazy shard for a doting big sister? I'm interested to see how Lili's magic might change over time, be it her current spell being retroactively altered to better reflect her or newly acquired spells. If Freya pulled a similar trick right now to try to get QA to learn a spell from a grimoire and Lili ended up being the one to actually read it, I wouldn't be surprised if Lili gained some sort of mindfuckery spell that made people more accepting of her, and yet just a day ago such a development would probably have seen something more opposite in nature, more along the lines of invisibility or induced apathy and boredom to make others ignore her rather than want her in a positive way.
That this selection was the product of two people rather than just one certainly makes things more confusing. Who decided what, and why? The aforementioned curse does indeed seem to suggest said care over strangers, but Taylor's—the Dreamer's—sense of morality is governed more by narrative propriety than "good and evil", or the like, being just as insane as QA, yet in an entirely different way. QA herself expressed genuine happiness like a perfectly normal girl over Lili, too, but for Lili in turn not at all acting like a perfectly normal girl. Was Lili kidnapped because it was the "right" thing to do? By what metric is right assessed?
I'll admit, I snickered over the prospect of the little fluffball turning into something reminiscent of a cross between a sea urchin and a grenade, with horns that probably spear out impossibly far and are fully prehensile, above the tiny little mouth that stretches out and unspools with inordinately enormous jaws that engulf the hapless victim. If it has cute, beady little eyes that seem almost to shine as it stares up, the shine is probably just an organic targeting laser just beyond normal visible spectrum. It may also be able to scream a tad loudly, too
Amusing. Hestia is catching on and learning, and to the point that QA's overwhelming... QA-ness isn't actually so overwhelming at all. I find myself wondering how this sort of thing might affect the future. Hestia gets up to all sorts of shenanigans in canon, but for having to deal with her Familia, I half expect that she'll develop a reputation as utterly unflappable, just taking anything and everything in stride with little more than a little sigh and shake of her head as she rolls her eyes and takes on a characteristic wry half-smile.
Well, they might not become sane, per se, but they could become quite productive indeed. Both of them appear to have a fondness for violence that to them is a degree of positive reinforcement, and Orario's society is well suited to turning that to its benefit for encouraging people to merrily slaughter their way through the dungeon and bring back valuables. QA and Lili may be a little off, but if they can be pointed towards monsters and basically just let loose, they can gain acclaim and respect all the same to see them upheld as valued members of society. Burn down a building? That's okay, just punch out a dragon's heart and everyone will brush it off, and who cares if a pair of creepy girls offended someone if that ends up providing a spectacular show for the ages. Orario has a place for anyone and everyone.
I like Hestia's uncertainty here. It raises the question of just what exactly everyone else wonders about this situation if Hestia herself is so. From an external perspective, the two goddesses seem like they might have some sort of cooperation ongoing, but certitude is illusive. More perplexing still, between their respective portfolios, either or both goddesses indeed "playing matchmaker" between QA and Bell is perfectly plausible, or it might be a rivalry, or both, and either scenario could also result from interference just as well, too, to make things all the more confusing. Freya supported Hestia and QA, and then one of Freya's promising new members interacts with them. To what end?
Ha! Now QA has the perfect excuse. Hestia quite literally asked her to refrain from fighting Bell. Oh darn, looks like she can't accept his challenge. Except that just means that he has to somehow get her goddess to change her mind. What is Hestia's objection? What can he do to resolve it? Just name it, and it's done! ...unless it's something awkward that he can't deal with by himself. Does he need to speak with his own goddess? Is QA unwell? Does he need to do something for QA before she'll be allowed to fight? Or maybe he just needs to talk it out with Hestia herself and see what her objections are. If he can alleviate her expressed concerns, then surely he'll be allowed to fight QA. Unless Hestia is worried about him dying and he needs to prove to her first before he proves himself to her adopted daughter. But why would Hestia be so worried? Sure, it'd cause trouble with Freya if he did die, but that wouldn't happen, right? ...right? Eh?! How much does he need to improve to make it "safe"?! Well so be it! He'll catch up with QA so that he can finally ask her for a duel if it's the last thing he does! ...eventually. With a lot of hard work.
So, uh, pretty sure this isn't irrelevant. For one, even if accidentally, one of the Fates did something to affect the mortal realm, however great the degree... and it was accidental, at that, rather than anything carefully done deliberately. That sounds the sort of thing that could have, er, "lasting consequences", one might say. This is also probably going to see Soma confused and all the more depressed, too, but drunk, meddlesome Fates is rather more concerning at the moment.
This is a curious point. Taylor has deliberately emulated that which is attributed to gods, and one of said gods here is comparing her to one, so I wonder if Taylor might take things a little further at some point and effectively set up a Dreamer Familia. It would certainly make matters odd for her herself being part of Hestia's own, but I don't believe that there is actually any particular rule against gods being effectively adopted and empowered by each other.
I do like how it's playing out, though. The inclusion of QA/Taylor is such a minor thing, and yet not minor at all. Hestia's course changed, so a desperate Bell did not encounter a lonely and bored Hestia searching for someone in turn searching for someone like her. Freya really, really wanted him, so when he did not stop his search for a patron, she took him in without anyone else snatching him up first. It's a very straightforward and reasonable progression of events, but it won't stop there. QA and Taylor are not Bell; we've already seen quite different interaction between Hestia and her new Familia member between here and canon, with QA and Taylor more as daughters to a concerned mother than a vague sort-of paramour and champion to a Hestia who is paradoxically both determined and anxious. The complete lack of any perceived possibility of conflict of amorous intent also sees a markedly different relationship between Hestia and "her daughter's friend and helper" instead of "that no-good Wallenwhatsit girl trying to steal her Bell"; it also sees a smoother acceptance of Lili, too, further helped by Lili coming across as an abused complete innocent rather than anything at all raised as a mark against her, though Lili herself also does not (at least yet) have the same sort of earnest, absolute loyalty to QA as she does to Bell when taken in... and we've barely even started the story, honestly. How is all of this going to further go? The interactions with Freya could certainly shake things up all the more, especially for her having an interest in Bell and Hestia's new Familia member as two (well, three) distinct individuals, and very different individuals at that.
I doubt he carries such effect in the first place. His fundamental skill offered immunity to the divine charm of Ishtar in canon. Freya herself was able to supplant Ishtar's charm on others with her own version, so Freya might succeed where Ishtar failed, but as Bell was simply outright immune, I doubt it.
It's not so much a matter of one or the other being more powerful as that the two are held as the top two, however ambiguously they compare against one another. The Loki Familia is great. The Freya Familia is great. Which one is greater is debatable, but they stand out above the rest, and it's a highly subjective comparison in any case. Hell, by some metrics, Ouranos could be considered supreme, but virtually no one at all would think such, and those who would are generally disinclined to say so in any case. Between Freya and Loki, however, we have a variety of issues muddling comparisons. Freya holds a legitimate, solid fact in her favour in that her captain is of a higher level than anyone else, a quantitative factor not disputable as qualitative factors may be. That said, qualitative factors are abundant. Just how decisive is Freya's advantage in Ottar; what is his relative benefit when considered in light of everything else? What about everyone under Ottar? How to the goddesses themselves affect things? The last point is perhaps the most influential: Freya and Loki are... Freya and Loki, really; they are different people with differing values, and methods of pursuing such.
The Freya Familia is headed by a goddess who longs to see her cherished individuals flourish and become as glorious as they can be. This is a very individualistic focus, and one that can hinder even as it helps, setting obstacles in the way that are genuinely detrimental and dangerous until overcome, and may have lasting negative impact despite intending to have a net-positive result. I think her captain exemplifies the principle rather well; Ottar is the single greatest adventurer in quite possibly the entire world... but some of her Familia also expressed dissension over her monopolised attention over Bell to the extent that they would obey her orders to the letter yet without personal motivation to further the spirit of her will of their own accord. The Freya Familia is not so much a great group as simply a collection of individuals who are themselves great, which is rather in contrast with Loki's.
The Loki Familia lacks any member on par with Ottar, but they certainly seem to get vastly better use out of their elite cadre of Level 6's than their counterparts in the Freya Familia, whom they outnumber more than twice over in active members. The Freya Level 6's might be able to defeat the Loki ones one on one more often than not, but the Loki ones are perceived as a team, and very prominently at that, regularly sallying through the dungeon to great acclaim and generally just seen more, which is probably quite intentional, given their goddess. Loki is noted more than once to be clever, with her deviousness upheld as a reason to refrain from doubting her for her appearances; classically, Loki is a clever, smooth-talking, trickster who usually wins through guile, and that seems to be in effect in-setting... to the point that we can't actually be sure that she isn't actually a he, because that would be perfectly in character for a shapeshifting trickster. Loki is simply smart about what she does, and that includes following her ambition and desire to be a part of something worth experiencing.
Between both of them, though, we still have a number of "soft" factors, too. How significant is the idea of Ottar as the mightiest adventurers, beyond his actual statistical features? What is the weight of Aiz's status as the record-holder for fastest level-up? What about Mia Grand, retired ex-captain of the Freya Familia? She runs a popular establishment and is herself popular, as well as remembered from her active days, and her pub is an excellent source of gossip and news. Have any members simply done something else that is noteworthy, such as shown off a particularly flashy spell or simply become known as a friendly face? How does Freya's touch as a goddess of beauty who wields subtly-yet-blatant influence over other gods through her undeniable charms compare to that of Loki's own influence that is more mundane yet in all likelihood literally divinely adept? In turn, what is the relevance of the friends and allies of each faction? For that matter, what is their relationship between each other, and how might that change between matters?
Yeah, I think that's about the right of things. I mean, we have this:
We also have a guy who is quite literally driven by his stubborn resolve, resolve at times conflatable with naive childishness as much as it is simple hope, and he has no love for shame. I think he may vary in why and how he takes QA's refusal as encouragement to try again, but try again he most certainly will, I expect. If he thinks that the issue is simply that QA doesn't want to spar right now, he may, as he was instructed, simply come back later and hope to gain acceptance by being more polite and hopefully catching her at a better time when she is not in a mood from whatever might have upset her. Alternatively, if he knows or learns of her stupidly fast growth, he may think that she deems him unworthy and strive to either prove himself adequate or not inadequate. He also, though, might just as well come to think her ambiguous "injury" issue and offer a potion helpfully provided by Miach along with the god's well-wishes.
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Typhoid Mary was immune to typhoid. Didn't prevent her from being patient zero in a number of outbreaks, killing many people.
The idea here would be for Freya to place the Charm on Bell like a Glamour to affect QA, and then pull a "Go forth my son" on Bell, in order to get the two to focus on one another.
Yeah, Bell's the sort that would take the rejection as meaning he's not good enough. Yet.
I'm going to be honest.
I clicked on the last page of this thread and skimmed the comments in order to get a general audience feel, and truth is seeing literally no canon characters mentioned makes me feel this is Taylor/QA transported to another setting, and that does not interest me.
I clicked on the last page of this thread and skimmed the comments in order to get a general audience feel, and truth is seeing literally no canon characters mentioned makes me feel this is Taylor/QA transported to another setting, and that does not interest me.
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
... Lili, Ais, Tiona, Freya, Hestia, Soma, and Bell aren't canon characters?
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Yes? That is what this story is, Taylor/QA transported to the Danmachi setting. Why are you posting about this?
You probably should read the first page instead of the last page if you want to know what the story is about, for future reference.
And then, you know, not post about how you're not interested. If you're not interested, just don't read the thread and go do something else?
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- Location
- britain
for ais companion, could it be a lion/lioness cub, that grows quickly after eating some good magic stones and is quite fast that has impervious fur and can breathe and coat itself in fire, which combined with ais tempest skill which lets her control wind from air blades, tornadoes, glide and slow her fall and surround her blade in wind would would be very helpful since it would be a massive damage dealer
Also for future creatures, check out god eater aragami, toukidan demons, and monster hunter monster for inspiration, i like the marduk in god eater its awesome, or hell pokemon would be a good place to pick from, looks cute but are adorable murderbeasts, and hopefully if haruhime gets a companion, it will be a nine tailed fox, which can do bullshit stuff with illusions, fire and other stuff, and you could give the companions magic by maybe having them eat either powerful magic stones/cores or eat a lot of weak or middle strength stones/cores
Also for future creatures, check out god eater aragami, toukidan demons, and monster hunter monster for inspiration, i like the marduk in god eater its awesome, or hell pokemon would be a good place to pick from, looks cute but are adorable murderbeasts, and hopefully if haruhime gets a companion, it will be a nine tailed fox, which can do bullshit stuff with illusions, fire and other stuff, and you could give the companions magic by maybe having them eat either powerful magic stones/cores or eat a lot of weak or middle strength stones/cores
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Reading the first page would be too easy
also I find sometimes the audience response is more telling.( it's a habit that came about by accident)and truthfully I was going to ask more about the premise and the thoughts behind setting this story this way, but I deleted, also I had several threads open on different boards and blind posted(wasn't paying attention to which boards i clicked Post reply on.)
- Location
- Earth (unverified)
Not sure if this is what he's referring to but when Lili said it I immediately thought of this:
It's a poro from League of Legends. It's part of their winter/Christmas events and is basically an adorable white ball of fur with horns.
Looks like it. I believe, Alivaril was referring to his earlier post about the appearance of QA's Friends (which I have only now found).Not sure if this is what he's referring to but when Lili said it I immediately thought of this:
It's a poro from League of Legends. It's part of their winter/Christmas events and is basically an adorable white ball of fur with horns.
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