It's not wrong to make Friends in the Dungeon (Danmachi / Sanctioned [Worm])

[tarrangar]

Mostly reasonable, though I assume you mean "foodstuffs" rather than "cooked food". Although that's...actually contradicted by canon, since Demeter Familia literally operates farms either just outside or just inside the bounds of the city. Which makes sense, since food rots pretty fast, and medieval transit is slow.

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Demeter is a goddess of agriculture, and like many other gods such as Goibnyu, Hephaestus, Soma, and Miach, she want to pursue her craft in the lower world, I still doubt that her farms, and all the other farms in the area supply half of Orario's food, but when a goddess decide she want her Familia to farm, then that Familia is going to farm.

 

[Carrnage]

"Compromise never works well," Dreamer

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D'Aww she's recovering.

 

[Nixeu]

Demeter is a goddess of agriculture, and like many other gods such as Goibnyu, Hephaestus, Soma, and Miach, she want to pursue her craft in the lower world, I still doubt that her farms, and all the other farms in the area supply half of Orario's food, but when a goddess decide she want her Familia to farm, then that Familia is going to farm.

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...But why, though? Why do you assume this? Just because the city's rich? That doesn't mean food won't still rot. I feel like you're extrapolating from modern norms of wealth, and not even considering all the inventions that make that display of wealth possible. Rich nobles in medieval and preindustrial times didn't typically order food from too far away, not purely because of the expense, but because it simply wasn't viable in a lot of cases. It'd be rotten by the time it reached them. Certain things could travel long distances: alcohol, preserved food, ground grains, and spices, just off the top of my head. But unpreserved meat and produce have limited shelf-lives, and, if they're not able to reach you within that timeframe, no amount of money will change the fact that the food has spoiled.

Seriously, I really wish you'd give better justification than "they're rich, so that means they can definitely do whatever they want". Because I have to keep explaining that there are problems that cannot be solved by throwing money at them. Or, rather, can't be solved purely by throwing money at them. Traveling to where the foods in question are grown/caught, for example, would be one easy solution to the issue of spoilage. But Orario can't literally import whatever they like just because the city is a money singularity. Not in any meaningful quantity, anyway. I suppose there's an outside chance that they could hire someone with a freezing spell to transport it. But then, there's also a care in freezing food that needs to be taken, otherwise you ruin the taste.

Also, there's the question of why they'd even bother purchasing less-than fresh produce that's been on a cart for several days. If fresh fruit is an option, say, from farms just outside the walls, most people would prefer the freshest fruit they can get. That usually means the closest source. That means that nearby farms would almost certainly profit far more than far away ones, so unless the fruit in question is rare and unable to be grown in a greenhouse, there'd be little market for produce from all that far afield.

The same applies, though perhaps to a lesser degree, to meat: fresh is best, generally speaking. So, again, in a lot of ways, the more "luxurious" option would be for local meat, though with meat you can sometimes just import the animal live. Note I say "sometimes", because there are some fish that will just flat-out die, even if kept in a sizable tank. Mostly deep-sea fish, though even a lot of other species take a lot of careful environmental monitoring and TLC to transport and keep alive, even with modern tech. Still, I could see Orario importing lobster and caviar. Hell, they've even got a port nearby. And I could certainly see them splurging on transporting living exotic game for their tables. That's a case where enough money can actually solve the problem. But this automatic assumption that further away=rarer=more luxurious is fallacious. Rotten, exotic fruit is not a more gourmet meal than a freshly picked apple.

 

[tarrangar]

...But why, though? Why do you assume this? Just because the city's rich? That doesn't mean food won't still rot. I feel like you're extrapolating from modern norms of wealth, and not even considering all the inventions that make that display of wealth possible. Rich nobles in medieval and preindustrial times didn't typically order food from too far away, not purely because of the expense, but because it simply wasn't viable in a lot of cases. It'd be rotten by the time it reached them. Certain things could travel long distances: alcohol, preserved food, ground grains, and spices, just off the top of my head. But unpreserved meat and produce have limited shelf-lives, and, if they're not able to reach you within that timeframe, no amount of money will change the fact that the food has spoiled.

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Refrigeration has been invented though, they have a lot of magi-tech thanks to the magic stone production, Danmachi isn't really a medieval world, it's a magi-tech world, that's still in the progress of magi-tech becoming widespread.

 

[Nighzmarquls]

But unpreserved meat and produce have limited shelf-lives, and, if they're not able to reach you within that timeframe, no amount of money will change the fact that the food has spoiled.

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The way most cultures/ultra rich solved this problem prior to refrigeration was by having rare/foreign ANIMALS transported and cared for (however badly) to a location to be butchered and eaten on site.

The lists of animals that the roman elite, popes and other mega wealthy prior to industrialization eat during feasts look absurd to modern tastes.

They also had recipes for stuff like rat as well sitting next to entries on peacock so that is still a thing.

Furthermore keeping animals alive, healthy and well kept enough for butcher tends to increase the cost of transport over distance and the amount of materials, experts and such involved. So you can get a lot more money drain to many different individuals.

Not only do you need to pay for the animal, you need to pay for all of its feed, care and the people involved in all of that going all they way along the point of origin and the destination.

So you could probably drain a lot of the money out of the city on consumable materials in this fashion.

 

[Nixeu]

Refrigeration has been invented though, they have a lot of magi-tech thanks to the magic stone production, Danmachi isn't really a medieval world, it's a magi-tech world, that's still in the progress of magi-tech becoming widespread.

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Yeah, refrigeration certainly helps, although I'd like a citation on them actually having it, as, like I said, the magi-tech aspect rarely comes up in canon. But refrigerated produce also doesn't trump fresh produce when it comes to taste. So again, unless it's something exotic, delicious, and unavailable locally, most people would prefer the taste of apples fresh from Demeter's orchard over ones that have been in a fridge for two weeks. Especially if the apples that have been in a fridge for two weeks cost more. Locally grown produce is actually more tasty, so why are you assuming there wouldn't be a bunch of farms all around the city that ship their food there daily, or at least as frequently as possible?

Like, I get that there's a lot of wealth in the city. But flagrant displays of wealth seem almost exclusively what the Gods get up to, not the mortals who make up 99% of the population of the city. I can't remember any Adventurers wandering around town in blinged up attire. Or even wearing much in the way of jewelry at all. Maybe a couple of pieces to complete an outfit, but not even one wearing more rings than they have fingers, even on a day off. Actually, I can't recall any deities wearing such excessive clothing on the regular either, though they certainly get up to a lot of fancy parties. You even mentioned that a meal at a fairly high-class tavern/inn (though I'm personally of the opinion that at least some of the cost at the Hostess comes from the fact that it's free of bar fights and violence, because of most of the staff being strong in their own rights) wasn't more than a day's pay for a Level 1. So again, where is all their money going, and who's buying all these luxury goods?

The way most cultures/ultra rich solved this problem prior to refrigeration was by having rare/foreign ANIMALS transported and cared for (however badly) to a location to be butchered and eaten on site.

The lists of animals that the roman elite, popes and other mega wealthy prior to industrialization look absurd to modern tastes.

They also had recipes for stuff like rat as well sitting next to entries on peacock so that is still a thing.

Furthermore keeping animals alive, healthy and well kept enough for butcher tends to increase the cost of transport over distance and the amount of materials, experts and such involved. So you can get a lot more money drain to many different individuals.

Not only do you need to pay for the animal, you need to pay for all of its feed, care and the people involved in all of that going all they way along the point of origin and the destination.

So you could probably drain a lot of the money out of the city on consumable materials in this fashion.

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Literally mentioned that further down in my post, though in less detail.

 

[cyberswordsmen]

Adventurers wear armor made of materials taken from the dungeon and crafted by crafter adventurers. This is ridiculously expensive Ais's armor might cost less if it was made of solid gold. They kind of are showing of wealth when they wear the armor outside of the dungeon.

 

[tarrangar]

Yeah, refrigeration certainly helps, although I'd like a citation on them actually having it, as, like I said, the magi-tech aspect rarely comes up in canon. But refrigerated produce also doesn't trump fresh produce when it comes to taste. So again, unless it's something exotic, delicious, and unavailable locally, most people would prefer the taste of apples fresh from Demeter's orchard over ones that have been in a fridge for two weeks. Especially if the apples that have been in a fridge for two weeks cost more. Locally grown produce is actually more tasty, so why are you assuming there wouldn't be a bunch of farms all around the city that ship their food there daily, or at least as frequently as possible?

Like, I get that there's a lot of wealth in the city. But flagrant displays of wealth seem almost exclusively what the Gods get up to, not the mortals who make up 99% of the population of the city. I can't remember any Adventurers wandering around town in blinged up attire. Or even wearing much in the way of jewelry at all. Maybe a couple of pieces to complete an outfit, but not even one wearing more rings than they have fingers, even on a day off. Actually, I can't recall any deities wearing such excessive clothing on the regular either, though they certainly get up to a lot of fancy parties. You even mentioned that a meal at a fairly high-class tavern/inn (though I'm personally of the opinion that at least some of the cost at the Hostess comes from the fact that it's free of bar fights and violence, because of most of the staff being strong in their own rights) wasn't more than a day's pay for a Level 1. So again, where is all their money going, and who's buying all these luxury goods?

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Orario is a extremely massive city, far above what a medieval society could support, so I simply don't think there's enough nearby farmland, that most of their food can be locally grown.

 

[Roth963]

All this talks about money make picture Dreamer throwing money in the form of solid bricks of gold and high grade cores grown from her braindead dungeons at her problems.

 

[Nixeu]

Orario is a extremely massive city, far above what a medieval society could support, so I simply don't think there's enough nearby farmland, that most of their food can be locally grown.

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Ah, I think I see the confusion now. I'd imagine they do import most of their food, in the sense of grain. Flour, cornmeal, that kind of thing. Maybe also preserved meats. Not their produce, though. Also, it's entirely possible that they've got a sources of fertilizers that are in some way magical, like something made from magic stones or from Drop Items. Or maybe something from the Pantries. Also, we know there are foods that the Dungeon itself produces. So that may be a source.

 

[girador]

In addition though it's reasonable due to godly knowledge not counting as Arcanum, as shown with bells knife, to presume that they are as knowledgeable about farming as we are in the modern day if not more so.

 

[tarrangar]

In addition though it's reasonable due to godly knowledge not counting as Arcanum, as shown with bells knife, to presume that they are as knowledgeable about farming as we are in the modern day if not more so.

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Probably as knowledgeable, but they don't have our modern farming tools, or at least not mass production of them, and without mass produced fertilizers, modern farming become less effective.

 

[Jubjub115]

Probably as knowledgeable, but they don't have our modern farming tools, or at least not mass production of them, and without mass produced fertilizers, modern farming become less effective.

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But they have literal gods and can use magic... I'm sure that a God of agriculture would have a lot of mages that can fertilize the fields, improve the amount and quality of the crops grown and even grow the crops faster than they should, said God would probably either have a couple high level workers to harvest it or just hire a load of civilians for cheap temporary labour

 

[tarrangar]

But they have literal gods and can use magic... I'm sure that a God of agriculture would have a lot of mages that can fertilize the fields, improve the amount and quality of the crops grown and even grow the crops faster than they should, said God would probably either have a couple high level workers to harvest it or just hire a load of civilians for cheap temporary labour

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That's not how either magic or gods work in the setting, all magic is personal, so unless you're lucky, that someone got a spell for fertilizing the fields, magic wont work for farming(though magic tools might) and the gods have their powers sealed, being a part of a Familia, don't make you more likely to get spells matching your gods domains.

 

[Mannan]

Of course while Gods have their arcanum sealed that does not mean that they are not utter experts in their field.

Hephaestus can forge a weapon that grows with Bell by herself through sheer skill.

Demeter is probably as equally skilled when it comes to agriculture.

That said the development of an adventurer does reflect their experiences and Excellcia and Leveling up does not have to involve direct conflict. Being a good farmer and achieving milestones to that effect can result in skilled adventurers as well, especially when under the guidance of an agriculture goddess.

 

[Aunty Shi Ping]

That's not how either magic or gods work in the setting, all magic is personal, so unless you're lucky, that someone got a spell for fertilizing the fields, magic wont work for farming(though magic tools might) and the gods have their powers sealed, being a part of a Familia, don't make you more likely to get spells matching your gods domains.

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Much if the difficulty is actually labour. given that even freshly minted level ones vastly outperform standard humans, they can likely farm a much larger area with fewer people and less downtime. The same is true of food distribution. There may also be farming developmental skills available that could be acquired through farming just as there are fighting skills gained through fighting.

Gods do retain some of their power. Their ability to just reforge the world is gone, but Ishtar can still charm people well beyond the scope of her mere looks and charisma, while Freya has much the same and can see souls. Chicken manure is an amazing fertiliser and fairly easy to produce is quite large quantities, and of course they can easily import it, along with other things like volcanic soil, from across the world using their ludicrous dungeon wealth.

I seriously wouldn't be surprised if Demeter in this were somewhat of a merchant hub and constantly radiated growth energy into the surrounding landscape.

 

[V01DRei]

Queen Administrator released lili and nodded enthusiastically

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Missing a capitol letter.

Loki's best attempts at small handwriting,

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You know, as far as I can tell there isn't acatually any handwriting for Falna... after all, it's done via divine power (blood drop as the medium)

The very idea was just wrong.

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And that's why the idea has such potential!

Aiz tilted her head to one side, her eyes fixed on the backpack that would far outweigh Lili herself when filled.

"You don't tip over?" Aiz asked.

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Leverage is a POWERFUL tool...

a maul-wielding pallum remained an utterly absurd idea and one likely to draw the attention Lili wanted none of.

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Um, Lili? That's not exactly something you can avoid as part of Hestia's Familia.
You may as well embrace it!

QA could identify the exact moment of synchronization due to her abrupt awareness of their presence

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Once Finn learns of this skill, the idea of an alliance will be that much stronger.
That is a SUPER useful skill for an Expidition!

Pulse, the Dungeon's agent tasked with locating the Other

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Here's hoping Pulse shows up soon!
When one starts with enforced loyalty, it skews all descisions in the opposite direction...

I wonder what the other Xenos think of Pulse... after all, normal Xenos are more of a mutation, whereas Pulse was an INTENTIONAL creation! Which might explain the lesser reactions other monsters had...

It was like trying to imagine the little Pallum girl, Liliruca Arde, as a diabolical villain; the image just didn't work.

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Diabolical, No.
Malicious, yes.

Queen Administrator gave up. She supposed it was Host's mind; she could do weird things to it if she wanted to. She hoped Host was at least making a proper failsafe for if Dreamer's post-puppet consciousness couldn't manage proper control over her various systems.

<AGREEMENT.>

…Why did you include an image of two different angry felines in that burst? I don't understand the connection to the rest of the transmission.

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Yeah, tell us: what was the purpose of the Catfight image?

There aren't many renard around

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I do wonder how Hariyuki is going to react.
Isn't that Familia's god acquainted with Hestia?

Hestia: *points at murder jar*

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"Texhnixally, Self-Defense doesn't count!"

Maat had seemed kind enough in casual interactions and he'd been a great co-worker back in Heaven. Unfortunately, the mortal world seemed to bring out the worst in him. Maat was the kind of person who would look at a burning building and immediately begin citing the laws against having bonfires larger than a certain size. Loki didn't think he did it to be malicious; he simply seemed to believe that laws were inherently worth enforcing. If those laws led to unjust results, then that worked as an example for why the law should be changed.

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This portrayal of Maat doesn't match up with the most recent chapter as much...

oblivious to the idea that such acts could get somewhat overwhelming at times

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Just threaten to join Hestia's Familia!
(It STARTS with a Sleepover...)

Dreamer could add "actually trusts doctors" to Lili's list of positive traits despite Lili's poor upbringing

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I doubt she has ever heard the word Doctor before...

Still, she'd gotten the impression of the weapon being big. Big enough to keep her safe from anything, everything

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And that's nothing compared to Shard Superweapons, like Sting...

if they were mostly made of oxygen?

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I'd say we're mostly composed of Dihydrogen Monoxide.
... I do actually wonder what atom is most prevalent in our bodies...

The truth-telling abilities of deities are remarkably convenient."

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The most dangerous weapon, because it's overlooked: Guarenteed Truth.
Just look at the Fae.
(Or even the Incubastard. The best way to deceive is with Selective Truth, via implications)

More importantly, both <Aiz Wallenstein> and nearby members of the <Loki Familia> appeared delighted by Friend unit <Felicity>'s actions.

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"Look at how far she jumped!"
"And she's still so little... she'll be a terror on the battlefield later!"

but he still felt stuck. Hearing about Queen Administrator's daily accomplishments only reinforced that feeling.

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Huh. That's not too different from his Canon pre-level up mindset.

Fine. He could still practice his forms and footwork, and then do his utmost to catch up.

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So, it looks like this impetus will force Bell to interact with them.
Bell's Ernest attitude should help shake the comparison to Escalation!

Doom Doorway 2.4c (Finalest) || Durin

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Where'd this name come from, and when did they replace it, against Hestia's explicitly stated denial...

Sadly," Ma'at continued with genuine disgruntlement, "some of the only redundant laws repealed by Orario's inhabitants are those pertaining to taxation. Groups with grudges have been known to successfully utilize outdated decrees even in the absence of recent precedent; the gods generally allow anything they find entertaining and have a lawful excuse for."

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He really sounds different from how Loki sees him.
She's an unreliable narrator, it seems.

That said, if Ma'at has been retained by someone else to determine if there is a legal case against the Hestia Familia, he can't exactly turn around and also provide legal advice to the Hestia Familia on that same case. (Presuming Orario has conflict-of-interest rules)

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As long as he's not directly advising them against that issue, they should be fine.
Also, I would guess that he already concluded the previous business, and the Silence is considered an unrelated incident. He was paid to investigate the Curses legality.

It sounds like others have come to him, and circumspectly asked for legal advice on how they might try to nail the Hestia Familia to the wall through legal shenanigans. That Ma'at conveys this to the Hestia Familia with minimal prompting, along with a great deal of advice on how an opposing party might try to justify that, suggests that he does not particularly approve of this.

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With how he feels that everyone should follow the laws, likely to the best of their ability, I definitely see him distaining those who seek to weaponize them.
I wonder if he's heard of Good Samaritan Laws...

loki felt that whatever he had to share probably couldn't be too decisive of a blow. He would've just hijacked someone else's party if it was that major. What he had was likely significant enough to warrant the expense of a high-profile party, but not good enough to do without the boost from a dedicated event. So it couldn't be too annoying, right

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This is almost blatantly foreshadowing.
And the last part is daring fate.
(Murphy's quote is actually used out of context - it was all about the military planning for every contingency...)

 

[Tzardok]

Missing a capitol letter.

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Capital, not capitol.

Edit: Now I'm just missing an Insightful to have exactly one rating of everything.
Edit: Well, that didn't take long.

 

[Kyron The Wise]

As long as he's not directly advising them against that issue, they should be fine.
Also, I would guess that he already concluded the previous business, and the Silence is considered an unrelated incident. He was paid to investigate the Curses legality.

With how he feels that everyone should follow the laws, likely to the best of their ability, I definitely see him distaining those who seek to weaponize them.
I wonder if he's heard of Good Samaritan Laws...

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It's a bit fuzzy, because we don't know how Orario law categorizes different magical crimes, or how their conflict rules work.

Alivaril obviously needs to give us a write up of an entire legal structure for Orario complete with case precedents to resolve this dilemma.

Not entirely sure of the relevance of Good Samaritan laws to the current situation (just protects you from getting sued for voluntarily providing free aid in an emergency), but given that Ma'at's domain is law, I imagine he knows of it.

 

[V01DRei]

Not entirely sure of the relevance of Good Samaritan laws to the current situation (just protects you from getting sued for voluntarily providing free aid in an emergency), but given that Ma'at's domain is law, I imagine he knows of it.

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The reason it's relevant is that the curse laid was done so to help those forced into slavery.

(and as such, he'd likely not look positively upon those who are trying to weapoize the laws to take advantage of them)

now that I I think about it, the fact that Dreamer and QA look for loopholes, and do their research, is likely something he can appreciated. Especially since them searching for those isn't for malicious purposes.
(If nothing else, then debating/analyzing Law with him is something he'd likely enjoy. They're NOT trying to pretend the law doesn't apply to them, but analyzing the law itself.)

...
Can anyone else picture him being like Mr Incredible with the old lady at the insurance office?

Spoiler: A bit like this, especially to those Maat feels deserve the extra mile

 

[Kyron The Wise]

The reason it's relevant is that the curse laid was done so to help those forced into slavery.

(and as such, he'd likely not look positively upon those who are trying to weapoize the laws to take advantage of them)

now that I I think about it, the fact that Dreamer and QA look for loopholes, and do their research, is likely something he can appreciated. Especially since them searching for those isn't for malicious purposes.
(If nothing else, then debating/analyzing Law with him is something he'd likely enjoy. They're NOT trying to pretend the law doesn't apply to them, but analyzing the law itself.)

...
Can anyone else picture him being like Mr Incredible with the old lady at the insurance office?

Spoiler: A bit like this, especially to those Maat feels deserve the extra mile

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That's not a Good Samaritan scenario. Good Samaritan is for those who pull someone out of a wrecked car and accidentally aggravate their injuries, not someone who damages the property/hurts/kills others in an attempt to stop the other from doing an illegal act.

 

[Nachtigall]

Hestia never said anything about no Door-Friends.

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She did. In fact, it was the most vehement refusal against a household Friend she ever voiced:

"Perhaps Queen Administrator could replace the door? That isn't furniture, either."
"Absolutely not!" Hestia automatically vetoed from the kitchen.

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[Carrnage]

She did. In fact, it was the most vehement refusal against a household Friend she ever voiced:

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Ah but you see, she vetoed replace 'The' door, not 'any/every' door thus as long as queen administrator disn't replace that particular door she's fine.

 

[Woodlark14]

Ah but you see, she vetoed replace 'The' door, not 'any/every' door thus as long as queen administrator disn't replace that particular door she's fine.

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Also a door friend doesn't have to replace the door, it can simply coat and reinforce it.

 

[Valmond]

Dreamer was not forbidden from making any Friends she wants.
This state of affairs will last approximately .0000000005 seconds after Hestia notices the door Friend.