Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

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[fictionfan]

If the Divine Saber Palace could do that, then maybe Manuel could reach the Jingshen Core Formation guys.

Click to shrink...

If Divine Saber Palace could do it then Manual can. He lives closer to the target and he can literally look into people's hearts and see their repressed desires. Our clan has already done the prep work.

He can nip over for spot of fomenting rebellion and be back in time for tea.

 

[Imugi]

Yao is a bandit and bandit steal things right? Why not have her steal those treasures and split them with Manual. Manual and Kleisthenes draw out Old Jingshen and his daughter somehow; a show of force in bandit country, something else? Would Old Jingshen expect Yao to be acting in his territory if he went to a meeting with Manual?

 

[Sirrocco]

If Yao and Kleisthenes caused trouble on the border, forcing Old Jingshen and his daughter to respond... (And maybe if Kleisthenes also had the Late Nascent Will to back her up in that clash, as otherwise the Mid Nascent Old Jingshen would just dumpster the two of them.)

And Manuel took that opportunity to sneak into Jingshen lands, in order to target either the Tribulation Treasures, the money vaults, or the prospective Nascent Soul candidates? If, in fact, we either stole or destroyed the Tribulation Treasures; or killed the Outer Noble Nascent, leaving Jingshen with no good choices?

... Hrm, no. Probably a terrible idea to have two young Early Nascents (Yao is still pretty new to being Nascent Soul, and Old Jingshen is Old) to face off against a Mid Nascent and Early Nascent.

Click to shrink...

We have never seen what Old Jingshen can do. He has never once flexed. Given the degree to which he coddles his descendants, I suspect that that may be part of his Dao. Even so, as you say, generating a border issue with two nascents, to draw out two nascents, is probably a poor choice. But what if we generate a border incident likely to draw out one nascent? The Scorpion Bandits Ride Again! If it draws out Old Jingshen, then he gets to face off against Yao... and if he decides to actually push things, then we have a sudden surprise Kleisthenes for him, as the Golden Devils gloriously leap to the defense of our sworn allies.

In the meantime, Manuel goes and raids something important (like the tribulation treasures). Sure, Jiao is there... but Manuel can run rings around her, as long as he's willing to go hostile from the outset, and doesn't need to be diplomatic.

 

[Olivebirdy]

If we engineered a situation where Jingshen attacked us first, it would further lower the odds of a coalition against us.

If we made it clear that we were close to a second Nascent and would invade Jingshen the moment we had one, they would either raise their Outer Clan Noble and attack first, or wait until we actually attacked and raised them then. They're playing the same game of Chicken we are, they want us to attack first so they get more RP support.

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

Yao is a bandit and bandit steal things right? Why not have her steal those treasures and split them with Manual. Manual and Kleisthenes draw out Old Jingshen and his daughter somehow; a show of force in bandit country, something else? Would Old Jingshen expect Yao to be acting in his territory if he went to a meeting with Manual?

Click to shrink...

We don't know where they are. To quote discord,
"How good is Yao at sneaking? Does her Dao of Transformation lend itself to infiltration or just a toolset for combat? Edit: What exactly about the Tribulation Treasures did our intrigue confirm apart from quantity?
Occipitallobe: Very good. She's very, very sneaky. She uses transformation in combat but she's not a combat beast, she's just adaptable. Nothing further - these are inferences made from various administrative records."

Given the current priority for the Jingshen Clan, those treasures are going to be locked down tight to prevent internal and external attack.

Edit: I've had a day to think about it and a heist is not as bad as I thought. It isn't excellent but not bad. Figuring out what counts us desperate enough for Jingshen to raise up Nascents is a rabbit hole. The most developed plan we have for a two fronted offensive leveraging our Nascent superiority is aimed at cutting Jingshen down to only their core territories. At present it would have good odds so in this option Jingshen is faced with permanent second class status in the desert. I'm not sure If that's enough for him it leaves him sandwiched between two Demonic powers. Perhaps we could guarantee non-aggression and tariffs on the Scorpion Road to keep him form desperation.

A heist tries to eliminate the threat of Jingshen entirely. No treaures means that Jingshen's odds of more Nascents are low but not impossible. It leverages the expertise of a seasoned bandit and an intrigue expert, the daring of our elder delving into enemy territory, our recent intelligence, our past memory assault on the Jingshen heir and distraction in the vassals. The problem with the heist is finding and accessing enough of the treasures. Generic wealth can be raided but specific artifacts can be split up to reduce risk. If the collection of treaures is scattered across Jingshen holdings, we might not be able to accomplish Mission satisfaction of st least 50% denial. The Jingshen vaults might be too difficult to crack as is and we lose the opportunity cost of time and surprise.

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

If we engineered a situation where Jingshen attacked us first, it would further lower the odds of a coalition against us.

If we made it clear that we were close to a second Nascent and would invade Jingshen the moment we had one, they would either raise their Outer Clan Noble and attack first, or wait until we actually attacked and raised them then. They're playing the same game of Chicken we are, they want us to attack first so they get more RP support.

Click to shrink...

Jingshen will only ever attack with overwhelming superiority which is not favorable for us. Their paranoia means that enticing an attack requires far too much preparation in the time we have before they realize the power dynamics have shifted away from their ideal conditions

 

[Sol Zagato]

Noble Knowledge Sect

Click to shrink...

It's like if Prokhor Zakharov ran a poison cultivation sect.

 

[Olivebirdy]

Jingshen will only ever attack with overwhelming superiority which is not favorable for us. Their paranoia means that enticing an attack requires far too much preparation in the time we have before they realize the power dynamics have shifted away from their ideal conditions

Click to shrink...

That's just a matter of finding the correct preparations. For instance, co-opting the Outer Clan Noble before the action so they think they're attacking with three but are actually attacking with two.

Another possibility: It would be very expensive, but it might be worth funding a Nascent Will from Yao so she can go up North (with a very hefty bribe from Jingshen) while leaving us with a surprise Nascent Will. Or use a less expensive body double treasure.

We already have the mobile corpse coffin we used for Manuel in the war with the Bees, we definitely have something better for keeping Kleisthenes hidden in one place. Publicly putting her in closed-door cultivation would put pressure on Jingshen.

Manuel could fake a wound again.

We could feed Jingshen a treasure that would strengthen them, but only for twenty years. We could open a hole in our defenses, give them a shot at the Scorpion Road.

There's all sorts of tactics that would seem to tip the scale towards Jingshen but don't, or ones that tip the scales towards Jingshen but not enough to beat a surprise Nascent or two.

It's true that we'd be giving up the initiative, but it's worth it for a lessened chance of a coalition and the ability to hit them with a surprise Kliesthenes and a surprise Yao.

 

[occipitallobe]

It's like if Prokhor Zakharov ran a poison cultivation sect.

Click to shrink...

I, uh, did some quotes on this earlier in Discord.

"The Noble Knowledge private residences shall remain off-limits to the Demonic Inspectors. We possess no Blood Path capability, we are not researching Blood Path engineering, and we shall not allow this Council to violate Sect privileges in the name of this ridiculous witch hunt!"

"Poison advance is an inherently iterative process. One does not simply take herbs from the field and produce a Nascent-grade poison. We use crude poisons to fashion better poisons, and then our better poisons to fashion more precise poisons, and so on. Each town or village poisoned is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken."

"Why do you insist that the human Qi code is "sacred" or "taboo"? It is a spiritual process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are spiritual processes and nothing more. If you deny yourself a useful tool simply because it reminds you uncomfortably of your mortality, you have uselessly and pointlessly crippled yourself."

"We hold souls to be sacred, but we also know the foundation of the soul consists in a stream of information not so different from the successive impulses of a spiritual jade. Why then cannot we cut one impulse short here, and start another there? Is the soul so fragile that it can withstand no tampering? Does the sacred brook no improvement?"

"My gift to industry is the spiritually transformed worker, or Pigman. Specially designed for labor, the Pigman's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?"

 

[Alratan]

I wonder if it would be possible to steal the Nascent Tribulation Treasures and frame the Righteous Sects. Given the way their war is going some of those sects must be getting desperate, and two extra Nascents could make the difference between life and death for them.

 

[Faraway-R]

I wonder if it would be possible to steal the Nascent Tribulation Treasures and frame the Righteous Sects. Given the way their war is going some of those sects must be getting desperate, and two extra Nascents could make the difference between life and death for them.

Click to shrink...

Too elaborate, methinks. Too many points of failure.

On another note, the idea of staging a successfully coup'd'etat in Jingshen Clan in the exact way that 7SP failed with Corpse Cannibals, is attractive to me.

I also acknowledge there are only two substantial reasons why we cannot instead vassalize the Jingshen.
1) They will still have a Nascent Soul and be a Great Sect by regional standards
2) They will want to stay visibly Righteous and becoming our vassals would paint them Demonic.

 

[Humbaba]

Anyone else kind of finding the Eight prince hilarious from these stories?

*pokes muse with a stick for signs of life*

*Muse mumbles and rolls over gently*

The Eighth Prince's week​

The Eighth Jingshen Prince was having a terrible decade.

Admittedly, not as bad as the two centuries the Ninth Prince had been having. The Eighth Prince had tried to feel sorry for him, being targeted for personal mockery by your hated enemies in the form of calling one of their powerful young masters by your title was unfortunate. That someone had set the city's alarms to go off at the news of a "Golden Devil Infiltrator" whenever he approached the city for an Elder's meeting might, in retrospect, have been going too far. As might the fact that the prank had been copied across many of the clan's cities and fortresses, including the Ninth's Prince's own.

In your defence though, you had only been responsible for one of those. There was no reason for the Ninth Prince to have employed several criers stand outside the palaces' of every other prince and princess to loudly announce the news that the Golden Devil's copy Prince had perished every day for a decade. Jiao, your -kind/caring/accepting- incredibly annoying elder sister had merely told them accept it and meditate on the Dao.

Sadly your younger brother took after your very elder sister Jiao in sheer insufferability, because it seemed that even that was not enough. Earlier this week you'd managed to free up two full weeks free of cultivation. Days you could spend more than a few hours aware of the world around you. You'd returned to your quarters for some well earned relaxation only to find two foundation establishment's having sex in the middle of your rooms.

Everything would have to be cleaned. The Heavens only know how many more had been sent to your rooms at your sibling's behest while you'd been away. There are rugs in there dating back to the Wei Dynasty! Cleaning them of any taint without destroying them entirely would be the work of weeks or months! Not to mention the cost of disinfecting the rest of your rooms and ferreting out if the sixth prince or the first princess had snuck in any nasty surprises.

Your planned two weeks of relaxing decadence were thoroughly ruined. Until you came across a man dressed as a sheep attempting to access Jiao's chambers.

Sheer absurdity had led you to question who he was, rather than call for the guard. He'd replied that he was "Lady Jiao's husband".

You wanted to claim credit for this. You really did. You wanted to know which blighted genius among your siblings (aunts, cousins, nephews, whatever) had come up with it. On the other hand, what you didn't know couldn't be used against you. Or dragged up by the old ghoul across the desert.

So instead you kicked the door open and wandered off.

Let's see her stick that in her dao of acceptance.

Her pretending not to know what you were smirking about the next time you saw her would make it all the sweeter.

 

[Taut_Templar]

Man, reading about the Noble Knowledge Sect reminded me more of Commoragh than anything, which is utterly horrific. You have to wonder how much is genuine thrust for knowledge and how much is simple wretched cruelty propelling their actions.

 

[Sol Zagato]

I, uh, did some quotes on this earlier in Discord.

Click to shrink...

So the parallels were deliberate! Ha! Though the last two (or three?) were Yang.

Should we be looking for more SMAC factions?

 

[Lampshade]

I managed to condense my thoughts into two proposals:

1. Subvert one of the candidates.
   • Provide them with the resources and opportunity needed to snatch the treasures, trading half of them for guarding their breakthrough and backing their claim to the Jingshen portion of Cannibal lands.
   • On paper, the Desert will be a triumvirate with a Righteous majority, preventing Jingshen from easily reclaiming it without slapping RP face, whereas in practice, Jingshen is flanked by a third power that prevents them from acting out.
2. Tattle to SPS that Jingshen are hoarding breakthrough treasures while our troops bleed on the Battlefield.
   • The noble Flood Dragon Gang will undertake the honourable task of liberating these treasures for the Righteous cause, only keeping a modest half as payment for their humble service.
   • Equip Yao with the hat, a dead sheep and the top pick of explosive talismans from Manuel's personal stash, then tell her to go wild.

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

That's just a matter of finding the correct preparations. For instance, co-opting the Outer Clan Noble before the action so they think they're attacking with three but are actually attacking with two.

Another possibility: It would be very expensive, but it might be worth funding a Nascent Will from Yao so she can go up North (with a very hefty bribe from Jingshen) while leaving us with a surprise Nascent Will. Or use a less expensive body double treasure.

We already have the mobile corpse coffin we used for Manuel in the war with the Bees, we definitely have something better for keeping Kleisthenes hidden in one place. Publicly putting her in closed-door cultivation would put pressure on Jingshen.

Manuel could fake a wound again.

We could feed Jingshen a treasure that would strengthen them, but only for twenty years. We could open a hole in our defenses, give them a shot at the Scorpion Road.

There's all sorts of tactics that would seem to tip the scale towards Jingshen but don't, or ones that tip the scales towards Jingshen but not enough to beat a surprise Nascent or two.

It's true that we'd be giving up the initiative, but it's worth it for a lessened chance of a coalition and the ability to hit them with a surprise Kliesthenes and a surprise Yao.

Click to shrink...

At this point I am throwing my hat in for a raid. Darkness and Transformation, working together to pull the threads from the Intel we do have to locate the Treasures, sneak in close and loot the place. Two Nascent rogues have to be good for something. If we get a triumph of major success on Joie de Bandistisme, we double down on the intrigue for the Heavenly Bandit Kingdoms as clan focus and pull their attention from the core to the vassals. Get Jiao out securing borders. Kleisthenes holds down the fort.

 

[no.]

This time is too precious to spend messing around; the way to go about it is exceedingly simple. Yao starts pillaging. Either Jiao attacks her and we let that fight happen, or Jingshen does it and Manuel intercepts him. Kleisthenes will then hunt down all of the candidates and use binding oaths make them choose to either bend the knee or die. She would obviously start with the Outer Clan Elder first, since Jingshen hates the Servant Elders more.

You want to vaguely "flip the candidates"? Here's the kind of plan that can actually do that. We don't need the free Nascent to slaughter their soldiers, because we can beat them in a conventional war. Kleisthenes is good at diplomacy, so let's flex that.

 

[Olivebirdy]

At this point I am throwing my hat in for a raid. Darkness and Transformation, working together to pull the threads from the Intel we do have to locate the Treasures, sneak in close and loot the place. Two Nascent rogues have to be good for something. If we get a triumph of major success on Joie de Bandistisme, we double down on the intrigue for the Heavenly Bandit Kingdoms as clan focus and pull their attention from the core to the vassals. Get Jiao out securing borders. Kleisthenes holds down the fort.

Click to shrink...

A heist would be good, at the moment it's hard to pressure Jingshen if they have the ability to promote two Nascents the moment they're threatened. I want to create a situation where they need to attack immediately if they want to stay alive. They're not against the wall yet.

I'm in favor of keeping Kliesthenes at home, too. We'll be able to keep her as an ace in the hole if we don't have her doing Nascent stuff.

 

[BadAtScreenNames]

-SNIPPED GENIUS!-

Click to shrink...

...I love you, and you are who I want to be when I grow up.

 

[Aklyon]

Is the hat an impressive one as well?

 

[Sparsebeard]

"Noble Knowledge Sect"

It needs to burn!

 

[Sirrocco]

Is Noble Knowledge doing anything other than poisons? I was under the impression that they had a decent number of heterodox knowledge pursuits, as we do. (maybe some tunists and/or formations masters, for example)

 

[Katana1515]

Divination is their other big thing, but the transmuted beastmen legions and the nascent tier necromantic serpents indicate that they do tend to branch out.

 

[adamashield]

Plus they probably torture anyone for knowledge even if 'just' to use as coin, they should be good at that too.

And I can see a visitor/new student from far. Trading for the same reason.

 

[fictionfan]

Is Noble Knowledge doing anything other than poisons? I was under the impression that they had a decent number of heterodox knowledge pursuits, as we do. (maybe some tunists and/or formations masters, for example)

Click to shrink...

I expect that they do many other sorts of knowledge as well, but the Rightous path is more inclined to focus on the poisons. Noble Knowledge Sect might have the best medicine and doctors on the flipper. They just don't have the best bedside manner what with how many of their 'patients' they have dissected.