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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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  • Threadmarks
    • Sirrocco said:
    Pretty sure you can do 12th heavenstage to Emperor, though, can't you?
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    You can absolutely do that. You just can't do Single Pillar and then Emperor.

    They're incompatible in a big way; Emperor's Path is something that was laid out in ancient times, before the SCA came I believe. It is a very difficult path to enter. The Single Pillar Path is new; it's a hack that Soup Chef invented, and its ultimate evolution is far, far more difficult to enter than the Emperor's Path.
     
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    no. said:
    You can absolutely do that. You just can't do Single Pillar and then Emperor.

    They're incompatible in a big way; Emperor's Path is something that was laid out in ancient times, before the SCA came I believe. It is a very difficult path to enter. The Single Pillar Path is new; it's a hack that Soup Chef invented, and its ultimate evolution is far, far more difficult to enter than the Emperor's Path.
    Click to expand...
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    13th heaven stage is not single pillar though. 13th heaven stage is where you purify your dao which let's you use dao effects in foundation instead of having to wait till nascent soul.

    13th heaven stage is needed to do single pillar but I'm pretty sure you can use multiple pillars instead. Of course this isn't usually done because the intent of doing 13th heaven stage is so you can get the sweet sweet secret benefits of going single pillar which you miss if you go for multiple.
     
    Shaper47 said:
    13th heaven stage is not single pillar though. 13th heaven stage is where you purify your dao which let's you use dao effects in foundation instead of having to wait till nascent soul.

    13th heaven stage is needed to do single pillar but I'm pretty sure you can use multiple pillars instead. Of course this isn't usually done because the intent of doing 13th heaven stage is so you can get the sweet sweet secret benefits of going single pillar which you miss if you go for multiple.
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    That… Huh.

    Come to think of it, I don't actually know what would happen if you reached the Thirteenth Heavenstage but didn't enter Single Pillar. I never considered it. Very interesting…
     
    no. said:
    That… Huh.

    Come to think of it, I don't actually know what would happen if you reached the Thirteenth Heavenstage but didn't enter Single Pillar. I never considered it. Very interesting…
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    I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that's what the 9th Prince did. Shame he's dead, makes it hard to ask him about it.
     
    The Ninth Prince is written as dead, but is also written as participating in a mission for Turn 11.

    Is he supposed to be doing this while dead, or what?
     
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    Demetrius Ceres - In Winter Wonderland
  • Sidestory
    • Demetrius Ceres
    In Winter Wonderland​


    I entered the town of Winter's Rest. It was a town of decent size, and it was one of the greater outposts belonging to the Ice Maidens of Hu Lin.

    I liked this place. It was cold, and the sight of snow covering the streets calmed me. If there was one reason people enjoyed visiting this place, it was because of the snow. I walked forward, watching as the snow melted on the path in front of me.

    Once again, I cursed the name of the Aasmi Bhardvaj. The unwashed hog had set my meridians on fire during the last trial. My treasure may have saved my life, but it had not quenched the fire. My meridians were still burning, and every waking moment was agony.

    Had it not been for the garbage-eating bird's insane luck, I would have ended her where she stood. She hadn't noticed me, and my first chop should have cut her down. I had put all I had into one blow, and a ricochetting rock from the combat below had diverted it.

    There had been something very wrong with that fight. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong, and then I burned.

    Either way, she didn't matter now. I would have my rematch when I faced off against the star-burned lunatic in a future trial.


    I arrived at one of the local taverns and paused. I made a quick diagnostic of my wounded body to make sure everything worked as intended. It would be a shame if I accidentally pulverized the building.

    "Demetrius." The tavern keeper bellowed as I entered. "Welcome back. I see you failed yet again to infiltrate the Ice-Qi cavern."
    "What can I say. I swear those vicious little Ice-Cuddling-Spirit-Penguins can sense me." I responded as I headed towards my usual spot. "You say they are harmless, but I have seen enough to call you a liar. "

    "The penguins love people, and the people love penguins." the keeper said as he prepared something for me to drink. "They just don't like you. Listen to me and know that I speak the truth. They are peaceful creatures who like belly rubs and warm drinks."

    I raised my eyebrow at his delusions.

    "It's true," he said, acting offended. "Before you arrived, they were harmless. We didn't know they could do half the things they have inflicted on you. Remember when all the small ones merged together to form a giant penguin, and it chased you around for weeks? I certainly do. I made a fortune from that spectacle.

    "I swear, that thing could hold off a Core for a time," I grumbled as I drank the snow-spirit wine. "The Ice Maidens still refuse me access to the depts, and those blasted penguins make it impossible to sneak inside.

    Listen, my burning friend." the keeper whispered as he made the motions of someone trying to be secretive. "This one may only be a humble seller of drinks, but I may have something to assist you in your plight for the right price."

    "Is that so," I said as I looked at the steaming bottle of wine. "You need to find a colder wine."

    "The trick is to put them to sleep. I recently purchased a sedative that you might find interesting." He said, ignoring my statement. "One drop and the penguin goes to dreamland. What do you say? Deal?

    A sedative might actually work. Bribery certainly didn't. Unlike Cultivators, penguins had a moral fiber, and I couldn't kill them as long as I wished to stay in this domain.

    A plan started to slowly form in my head. If I could sedate the penguins, I would only have to deal with the Ice Maidens and their 214 ballistas. Defeating them in combat would be difficult with my wounds, but sneaking past them should be easy enough.

    I needed to reach the deepest and the coldest part of the cavern. The place where the stars didn't shine. It was the only place where I could finally quench the burning fire.

    "You have a deal."


    Omake Bonus:
    Healing Treasure
     
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  • Sidestory
    • Maria 40- Price and Balance (Part 3)
  • Sidestory
    • Price and Balance (Part 3)
    Maria Turn 11 Fourth Omake​
    "Caravan escort."

    The centurion – Magna, her name was – nodded.

    "It's a small one. We don't have enough troops for a cohort. You can manage it on your own, can't you?"

    Maria nodded. Lyssa wasn't there. She'd been an angry, buzzing presence on the edge of camp for weeks now, snarling at any who came near, and sullen in the face of orders. Even that had been a concession hard won; she'd had to duel her again, beating some sense into her sister-self's head.

    Gods, but she hated this. Being the voice of reason was easier, but that needed the opposition to be unreasonable.

    "Good," said Magna. "It's a short jaunt. They're claiming refugee status under the Bronze, if you can believe it. Said they had an old ancestor who burnt out the bloodline to escape persecution. You just need to get them to Ward Stormcloud – we have people waiting for them there."

    Maria nodded again. The Centurion gave her a long stare, before waving her away.

    ---

    Lungslice stretched a little, hearing his shoulders pop satisfyingly as he did so, and turned his back on Thousand Song. It wasn't necessarily defiant. Even calling it contemptuous would be pushing it. He just wanted a chance to take a piss without the defenders on the wall staring at him. And they were, he knew it. The Broken Arrow bandits had eyes like hawks, and the Devils, used as they were to the wide open deserts, weren't far off. They probably knew every front liner by name, at this point. And that was before you factored in his… unique appearance.

    Shu Cangquiong's work had proven exceptional. Even now, decades later, the bio-parasite fed him its flesh as it cultivated, underneath the bladed chitin of his armour. The complex tripart jaw-system in the helmet only improved on that. He'd taken on elders far his superior in age and won. Handily, too. He'd come to love it. The only problem, of course, was that it had made him memorable. There'd been more bounties out on him in the last forty years than in the entire century beforehand. It had gotten pretty aggravating, if he was honest; sometimes you just wanted to be subtle.

    Whuuuush. THUNK.

    The arrow punched into the chitin of his shoulder, already drained of qi by the leech wall thrown up over the NDA camp. He didn't even feel it. Lungslice tried not to sigh. Could a man not even piss in peace? He plucked the arrow out, snapped it irritably, and went back to his business.

    Fucking CONSUMPTION, he hated sieges. And that was a big deal – Lungslice tried not to hate anything. It distorted perspective too much. Give into it, and you'd find yourself making ridiculous plays for no clear purpose other than avenging… gods knew. Something stupid, probably. Or avoiding thoroughly reasonable tactics because of squeamishness. But sieges…

    It was the waiting. Yes. That was it. The hours and hours of sitting still, staring up at city walls, waiting for a mistake you could take advantage of that you knew would never come, or orders for another mindless offensive to try and overwhelm the defenders where all tactics and strategy was thrown to the bastard winds. Tedium and stupidity in equal bloody amounts.

    He let out a low, irritated sigh, and turned back to the front lines. Any minute now, Lungslice knew an elder would be along. Checking in, they'd say, smiling with sharp edged teeth, eyes lingering on the wounded. Keeping up morale. His absence would be noted. Even leaving for some privacy when making your daily ablutions was considered poor form. He should go back.

    He should.

    He didn't.

    It wasn't a conscious decision, really. He just wasn't willing to do this any more. Rina Callista was holding these walls, and gods knew how many others. The risk reward split had been veering into the red for days. Lungslice wasn't going to pretend otherwise. Instead, he let his eyes roam out over the blasted landscape beyond. There were cities out there still, he knew that. A pass the Devils were holding.
    That sounded far more interesting.

    ---

    This one really didn't want to get written, hence its titchy stature. Still. Done now. @Alectai @Kaboomatic @no. , may I have a threadmark please?
     
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  • Sidestory
    • Maria 41 - Price and Balance (Part 4)
  • Sidestory
    • Price and Balance (Part 4)
    Maria Turn 11 Fifth Omake​

    It was late. Lyssa was dreaming.

    She didn't dream often, mostly because she didn't sleep. Her cultivation base hadn't quite extirpated the need for it, yet, but it was rare that either of the sister-selves needed more than a half-hour of dozing almost-sleep. Every few years, maybe. Sometimes longer.
    And yet, here she was, curled up in their tent, asleep. Maria had shot her the darkest, most exasperated look she'd ever seen when Lyssa had dropped onto the sleeping matt and rolled over. She hadn't said anything, though. Just stalked out. It was stupid and spiteful and Lyssa was deeply, *deeply* enjoying it.
    Or at least, she had been at first. Then sleep had taken her, and now…

    It was dark, and open, where she was. The space above her was vast and cavernous. The world spread out around her in all directions, blank and featureless all the way out to the unseen horizon. And for the first time in her existence, she was utterly and completely alone.
    It was a peculiar sensation. Not necessarily unpleasant, but… unprecedented. Like a blind man, sight restored at last, looking up at the sky for the first time. It startled her for a moment, and she stopped to try and slot it into her mental framework, a new piece of context for… well, everything. But she didn't have time for this. There was work to do.
    She turned her face up to that vast void above her.

    "Are you there?"

    Nothing. Silence.​

    "I said are you there? Are you?"

    Still nothing.​

    She breathed.

    "I came… I came to understand."

    ​

    "Hello?"

    ​

    "…Fine. Fuck you. I'll ask anyway. You can play hide and seek all you want."

    ​

    "…I don't know why we're doing this. Not really. It started because Maria stopped… hating herself. I liked that. I understood it. But… it's taking so long. It's costing. And not just us, it's costing…"

    And still there is silence, but now…​

    Lyssa cannot explain it, exactly, but…

    there is a question.​

    "…Those around us. The- The clan, the-"

    The absence, the silence, shifts.

    Briefly it becomes clear;

    the absence expresses what is missing.

    Lyssa sees a girl.

    Metallic blonde.

    Not older than eleven, at most.

    She is fighting in a ring against a boy.

    He is perhaps fourteen. Bigger. Stronger.

    He strikes her face. She bleeds.

    They do not know it, but he has torn the inside of her eye.

    Days from now, it will start to blacken and putrefy.

    A doctor might heal it.

    Careful acupuncture, intricate qi manipulations.

    But there is no doctor.

    Instead, a man, fat and venal, takes a knife to it, and while the girl screams he sears the wound shut.

    It is a mark of this place.

    A telling absence –

    "I have lost a part of myself,

    and it cannot come back."

    The absence reaches deep, to a white flower, licked with blue flames.

    In its floret, the absence finds an answer.

    A little red seed is born, spitting with rage.    ​

    Lyssa gasps.

    "…That. That's… I know, but-"

    The absence withdraws. The question is still there.​

    "Gods, yes, alright, I know, but… but there's more than just us! There's more than Maria, there's more than-"
    ---

    "I thought," said the mortals' elder, his voice carefully pitched, his posture calculated – not even a hint of disrespect given to Maria – "that cultivators did not require sleep."
    "We don't," she growled. Her voice had the sandpaper growl to it again. The elder flinched, and she kicked herself. It wasn't his fault. "My sister-self is… gods, look, I'm sorry but I'm not good at fine talk, alright? She's a bitch. Don't – you're not in trouble. This is her fuck-up. I'll handle it." The elder had that pinched, uncomfortable expression mortals always got when she cursed. The one that said high-ranking cultivators shouldn't talk like gutter urchins. She pasted on an uncomfortable smile, and fled back to their tent.

    They'd been with the Caravan two days now. This was the latest stunt she'd seen Lyssa pull, and she was officially done. They'd gotten the damn mission. Time to stop fucking around. Inside the tent, her sister-self was still coiled on the sleeping matt, dead to the world. She could hear her mumbling.
    "Fuck's sake."
    Maria kicked out once, hard enough to register. It clipped the base of Lyssa's back, and dragged her back into the world of waking with an angry shout.
    "You finished sulking?" Maria snapped, folding her arms. Lyssa gave her a groggy, furious glance. "No? Tough. We're moving in ten minutes. Get the fucking tent down."
    "I was…" Lyssa muttered, face still fogged with sleep. "I was asking… something."
    "They're called dreams. They happen to mortals and lazy cultivators who should, at this stage, know better. Tent. Down. Now."
    She stalked out.
    ---

    After a few hours, Lungslice had gone with a grey silk robe for this particular jaunt, tied loosely at the waist to give him a nice hourglass shape and emphasise his shoulders. It had a massive fur collar too, which helped with that. The colour went nicely with his armour, and the embroidered cranes made him look taller, which he liked. So many of his colleagues-slash-rivals in the Demonic Altar ignored the little pleasures in life. It's not that he didn't understand the allure of power over all else, but it wasn't always an either-or choice. In any case, he looked good, and he felt it, too. He'd even allowed himself a little extra indulgence; one of the cigars he'd stolen from a minor mortal king's palace after devouring the inhabitants. He'd withdrawn his helmet to smoke it, enjoying the novelty of the cool breeze on his face as he did so. Today, Lungslice decided, was a good day.

    Still, for all he was enjoying it so far, the situation it brought otherwise was proving a little… frustrating. He'd found the pass without too much difficulty. Cloaking his qi signature was an old trick, and one he'd long ago mastered; all he'd had to do was keep low, under the eyes of the Devils' watchmen, and follow till he found the place. Staying at a distance let him scope out their camps, and the two cities they were evacuating. That had been the end of the easy part, however. The bastards were playing the kind of game they always won – defensive and stubborn. He'd hoped that the more mobile nature of this mission would give him an angle, but no. They were moving the mortals under heavy guard when they moved them at all.
    He took a long pull on the cigar again, and considered.
    "Risk – reward," he muttered, brow furrowed a little. The plan had been simple; hit some weak targets, walk away with a full belly and intel for the elders on the Pass. More than enough to earn a little clemency. But if he couldn't bring something back…

    The caravans. That had to be it, he decided. Hitting the cities would be, at best, suicide. He was good, but even he'd struggle against that many enemy cultivators, and that was before you factored in their bastard hoplites. The caravans were lighter, and the mobility would keep the Devils from digging in and fortifying too much. If he ate one of their officers, it might at least get him a lead.
    With that resolved, he set out again, scouting the land, watching his enemies carefully. It was tense work; their sensors were bombarding the landscape with scans, and even here the Devils were travelling in packs. Too many ways an attack could go wrong, and precious few opportunities to stack the deck in his favour.
    But then…

    They'd been travelling a while already. He could see that in the plodding, exhausted steps of the mortals. There weren't many of them; two dozen families, perhaps less. Heading the wrong way, too; everyone else had headed back towards the south. Lunacy, he thought dispassionately. They'd end up under the Devil Bees eventually. These ones seemed to agree with him. They were heading south west, towards the Desert.
    And they had only two guards. One of whom-

    He stopped. Stared. Smiled.
    One of whom he recognized.
    Consumption was a cold and cruel ideal, pitiless and uncaring. But sometimes it dropped such fascinating opportunities in your lap.
    ---

    @Alectai @Kaboomatic @no. , may I have a threadmark please?
     
  • Sidestory
    • Bumbling Their Way To Genius
  • Threadmarks
    • It was, Kleisthenes thought, almost unbelievable.

    She had learned all kinds of things. Manuel had become a fierce taskmaster rather than an old friend for the last few years, mercilessly chasing her to do more Nascent cultivation, to learn more, to become more.

    The pain would have been unbearable without the forging of the self through Core Formation, she knew. It was obscene. Put a Qi Condensation disciple through this, and they'd go mad within hours. For her, it felt more emotional than physical - every time she tried to remove the soul from the self it was as though the soul resisted, forcing the worst experiences of her life onto her again and again as if to resist. Every moment felt like the moment where her sister had died in front of her. The betrayal, the multiple layers of guilt combined with searing white-hot pain that ran through her meridians and seared her dantian ceaselessly, as though she were burning up from the inside out.

    No wonder all the Nascent Souls were old monsters. Bearing this for millennia... well, she was sure one grew accustomed to it, but it had to drive you mad. She had wondered why the old man had changed so much on reaching this level, but now she knew. Nobody sane would choose to live like this. Nobody sane could, she suspected. You either went mad in small ways or died.

    Still, despite the madness and misery of the last few years, she had the power to change things. That would need to suffice.

    Manuel had taught her the Thousand-Thought Qi Threading Sutra, a powerful mantra that when used repeatedly rapidly depleted one's Qi but also let you think through things with remarkable rapidity. It was an expensive mental enhancement, and he'd simply said that he rarely used it himself anymore. It was too expensive, but for someone who needed to learn all of the Clan's operations to an acceptable degree should Manuel die it was a necessity.

    She was currently using her precious, tiny amount of free time per day to parse through a six-hundred page report and thirty-two spiritual jades from the spying mission on the Jingshen.

    It was unbelievable. Not almost. A pack of idiots had strode into Jingshen land and somehow penetrated deeply into the Underworld Spirit Palace, that giant mine the Jingshen called a city. That was believable. They had executed good intelligence operations before, the Clan had done very well from time to time.

    This, though... A man and a woman - two good Foundation-level spies - were caught infiltrating the Eighth Prince's personal chambers, got caught, and simply started having sex. What's more, this had worked, with a Core Formation Elder apparently too embarrassed to confront them and so let them out. She could only imagine the series of incredibly stupid events that had culminated in that particular event, but it wasn't even the worst one.

    One of the spies had - somehow - gotten into Old Jingshen's quarters and stolen his hat. He had then used this hat as a symbol of authority to access their Noble Archive of Stone, and looted a hundred years of financial records from them. He had retrieved the hat and brought it back to the land of the Clan. It was just a hat! There was nothing special about it at all!

    She strained, pumping Qi into her meridians, letting it flow into her head, her brain absorbing more and more as she thought faster.

    It almost defied reason.

    The third event was worse.

    Somehow... somehow the strategy of dressing like a sheep and claiming to be Lady Jiao's husband had amused the Eighth Prince so much he had let the man dressed as a sheep into her chambers to consequently steal a administrative jade on their Core Formation elders.

    They had also lost nearly eighty good, competent spies. All dead. It was just the bumbling fucking idiots who had come back bearing nothing but triumphs.

    She had asked the old man to verify those secrets. Verification, he had said, was easier than grasping a secret from nowhere. He needed threads to attach to, relationships with the thing he was seeking out in some way. Simply, crudely bringing his power to bear on someone holding a secret to see if it was true was well within his remit. He had shaken his head and noted that they had all been true.

    Unbelievable.

    Well, they were Xinya's problem, not hers.

    Still...

    This report was exceptional. They hadn't even known which of the Jingshen Princes and Princesses were bound to try and ascend.

    Each child in direct descent from Old Jingshen was a Noble Child. Those who reached Foundation Establishment were Royal Children, and those who reached Core Formation were Princes and Princesses, each numbered in the order they had reached Core Formation.

    Presently the Eighth Prince, Sixth Prince, and First Princess were the three contenders for a pile of artifacts - the Jingshen had various treasures to assist their people into Nascent Soul. The report had been scant on detail, but apparently they were quite confident. She knew that shattering one's core was the hard part - or at least the harder part, though she hadn't really experienced tribulation. She had thought the Jingshen lacked artifacts, but she had been quite mistaken.

    In fact, the Jingshen had nearly enough artifacts to see two Core Formation elders into Nascent Soul, provided those Elders could shatter their Cores.

    The real problem the Jingshen faced, according to her analysis, was not that they lacked the ability to raise new Nascent Souls, it was the inability to shatter their Cores. There were eighteen Princes and Princesses, forty-six Outer Clan Nobles who were still of good Jingshen blood but were not descended directly from Old Jingshen, and seventeen Servant Elders - those who lacked sufficient Jingshen Blood to be considered full elders of the Jingshen, but were permitted to serve and cultivate regardless.

    Of those, one Outer Clan Noble and three Servant Elders were willing to shatter their cores.

    She chuckled.

    Greenhouse flowers.

    Old Jingshen prized his bloodline, and lavished his wealth on them alone. They were weaker and younger, though, and far enough from death that they lacked the resoluteness combined with doubt that was needed to shatter a Core.

    Letting an Outer Clan Noble rise into Nascent Soul was one thing - he could marry them to his daughter and continue the bloodline that way. But Old Jingshen would never countenance a Servant Elder doing so, and that was his true problem. Two Servant Elders would let him crush the Clan, most like, but even so afterwards he would forever be watchful, paranoid of being overthrown.

    Still, it clarified things. If things became desperate enough for him, no doubt the Servant Elders would rise into Nascent Soul regardless, bringing any war to a stalemate.

    She tapped a finger on her lips thoughtfully. Maybe it was time to see if she could reach out to them.

    She giggled, and delighted in the sound of her voice. So light and free, no longer the deepness she had suffered for centuries.

    This... this opened up so many possibilities. Perhaps the Jingshen Clan simply needed a new leader.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Are we sure that our Clan Bloodline is Bronze? And not Brass?

    Because this is some straight up Malfean Stealth bullshit spying going on here.

    This isn't James Bond shenanigans. This is Austin Powers shenanigans.

    This is advanced shenanigans.
     
    occipitallobe said:
    It was unbelievable. Not almost. A pack of idiots had strode into Jingshen land and somehow penetrated deeply into the Underworld Spirit Palace, that giant mine the Jingshen called a city. That was believable. They had executed good intelligence operations before, the Clan had done very well from time to time.
    Click to expand...
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    Ok, I can see this working, sex deviants sneaking into a place to have sex where they shouldn't, I'm sure they see some every year
    occipitallobe said:
    One of the spies had - somehow - gotten into Old Jingshen's quarters and stolen his hat. He had then used this hat as a symbol of authority to access their Noble Archive of Stone, and looted a hundred years of financial records from them. He had retrieved the hat and brought it back to the land of the Clan. It was just a hat! There was nothing special about it at all!
    Click to expand...
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    If you have something of someone important and act like your important, you'd be surprised how many people just let you through
    occipitallobe said:
    Somehow... somehow the strategy of dressing like a sheep and claiming to be Lady Jiao's husband had amused the Eighth Prince so much he had let the man dressed as a sheep into her chambers to consequently steal a administrative jade on their Core Formation elders.
    Click to expand...
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    This one… I have no words
     
    did the dice explode? and how many times it did^^? just allowing our old monster focus in some secrets in particular and not waste time in other secrets is already a lot.
     
    So, I have a question: who do you think pulled off a "Nigerian prince scam" on the Jingshen? The Ninth Prince I think did have some retainers that came with him, so those retainers would have family and descendants by now, and so... yeah.

    And who managed to sell them a map to El Dorado?

    Or convince them they knew the secrets of the Wealth King's Devil Prison, and sold them to it for loadsamoney?
    occipitallobe said:
    They had also lost nearly eighty good, competent spies. All dead. It was just the bumbling fucking idiots who had come back bearing nothing but triumphs.
    Click to expand...
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    So, I wonder if in addition to all of this... this means that Jingshen thinks their information is secure, because our actually-good spies were caught and killed? Or that we have a chance of making that play; of making them think we didn't learn anything useful and didn't penetrate their security. That's tactics and ploys though, and up to Manuel.
     
    Garlak said:
    So, I have a question: who do you think pulled off a "Nigerian prince scam" on the Jingshen? The Ninth Prince I think did have some retainers that came with him, so those retainers would have family and descendants by now, and so... yeah.

    And who managed to sell them a map to El Dorado?

    Or convince them they knew the secrets of the Wealth King's Devil Prison, and sold them to it for loadsamoney?

    So, I wonder if in addition to all of this... this means that Jingshen thinks their information is secure, because our actually-good spies were caught and killed? Or that we have a chance of making that play; of making them think we didn't learn anything useful and didn't penetrate their security. That's tactics and ploys though, and up to Manuel.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It was confirmed that they crit failed their defenses, I'm pretty sure no one there knows anything about what we got
    If we don't rob them blind with the financial info we got I will be very disappointed
     
    Well now, that's very interesting and explains a lot. Opens up a whole host of options too.

    Poison the well by getting their Nascent candidates to becomes compromised, perhaps? Then we can invade, Old Jingshen will raise up two guys out of desperation… then one or both will immediately defect to our side instead. But on the other hand, the advantage from invading before knowledge of Kleisthenes' ascension gets out is crucial.

    Four Nascents is a massive resource drain. If we invade right away and force Jingshen to raise two and create a stalemate, he'll be bleeding resources incredibly fast for two turns. Three if we can give Yao a big enough bribe to stay for one more turn. Plus the internal politicking will get much worse. Jingshen might have a civil war, one we could even instigate!

    Yeah, we should do it. Force them to massively overextend right away, then take advantage of the sudden poverty. Use Blitzkrieg and Scorched Earth tactics to destroy lots of their wealth production as fast as possible in the first few months of the war, since we know we'll be forced into retreat very soon.

    Forget coalitions. We can get Jingshen to destroy themselves without using up the SPS goodwill and while barely losing any soldiers at all.
     
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