[HALP] me! (WORM quest)

Alright, let's just stop arguing on the topic for now.
I pointed this out a long time ago but it bears mentioning again, there are other forms of informational warfare besides memes. All the meme defense in the world is worthless before something that isn't a meme.
True, but most inter-shard warfare is likely to be memetic in nature. Like, I'm pretty sure even us updating other shards' trust root could be defined as a memetic hazard/attack, as we're essentially forcing them to obey everything we say by changing what passes for a shard's mindset.
 
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If we could interrogate QA, we could find out what exactly happened with the ROB that put us in our shard body and what kinds of surprises QA left behind.
. . .
Why would we give an Avatar to and interrogate the personality matrix to do that instead of doing the Research branch that is literally just rooting through QA's memories? Considering the personality matrix is separate from the memories, I don't think it would even be able to answer any questions.
 
. . .
Why would we give an Avatar to and interrogate the personality matrix to do that instead of doing the Research branch that is literally just rooting through QA's memories? Considering the personality matrix is separate from the memories, I don't think it would even be able to answer any questions.
I admit I'm also curious as to how a shard contained within a human avatar would function. Like, would this host!QA be literally the same as shard!QA? Would it contain instructions, programs etc. as a normal shard would? Because if so, making a few separate host!copies of ourselves that we could access (trigger) and partly copy over in case we get restricted/mutilated/taken over sounds like a decent idea. An insurance against Broadcast, Path to Victory, High Priest, Zion etc., if you will, basically anything that might have access to us via the system. They slap restrictions on us, we trigger one of our failsafes and restore our backup restriction state (ie. none), which is possible because we don't change our own state, we just reset it to an earlier state.

Either way, no use discussing this course of action quite yet, let's first concentrate on grabbing Coil's body and unlocking all the research we can afford. All that we do afterwards is dependent on our capabilities once we have done so.
 
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True, but most inter-shard warfare is likely to be memetic in nature. Like, I'm pretty sure even us updating other shards' trust root could be defined as a memetic hazard/attack, as we're essentially forcing them to obey everything we say by changing what passes for a shard's mindset.
That's a leap of logic that's unsupported in the text.
 
That's a leap of logic that's unsupported in the text.
I agree that we seem to have have three vectors with two options each.
Mass (Could you even give mass as an attack? That's an interesting thought.)
Energy (Overload for giving, Drain for taking)
And Data (Memetic for giving, unknown for taking, although I wonder if it's in the Stranger Danger tree.)

And eating is basically taking on all three fronts.

I mean, considering Clone was trying specifically to grab Mass and Energy, we've already seen a non-Memetic attack.
However, they are probably correct in that injecting information is the most likely attack type, considering what the QA bombs seem to be and how Charge reacted.

Now,. I disagree that they're specifically Memetic attacks since the Memetic attack tree talks about having a single propagating command released and the QA bombs were about overwriting data, not injecting a command. And Charge's attack was basically trying to inject junk code, like a bizarre DoS attack.

So I think it's another case of Law of the Instrument, where we see a defense, one created specifically to defend against an attack type we also created, and just assume that's the way attacks work since there aren't any other defenses. Since, you know, we didn't pitch any and only skills pitched get added to the base ones. Well, besides Temporal Mechanics.

But I'm pretty sure the second Interlude described where that monstrosity came from.
 
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EDIT: Is it bad that I feel like a need another Beta for this Quest? Do Quests even *have* betas? At least voting happens before writing does...
I can basically confirm this. Vhal and I do a lot of talking in regards to our stories.
Also, since I'm pretty sure you are the Beta for this story, and that's where your Interludes come from, I have to laugh at people who argue with you about story points.

It certainly explains why you never suggest voting plans and why your votes are always so sparse compared to everyone else's.
Not trying to bias the Quest, ehh?
 
We haven't even seen a purposeful meme attack at all so far. Sure, we've been hit with a meme generated from corrupt data but that isn't evidence.

Hell, if this quest is anywhere close to canon the most common shard based attack would be mass eating or mass donation via sting.

Also, since I'm pretty sure you are the Beta for this story, and that's where your Interludes come from, I have to laugh at people who argue with you about story points.

It certainly explains why you never suggest voting plans and why your votes are always so sparse compared to everyone else's.
Not trying to bias the Quest, ehh?
That's a leap of logic that's unsupported by the text. What an insidious suggestion!
 
So since I'm a stubborn masochist I've been working all night on getting the tech tree to display in GraphViz (without manually reformatting the research post very much). Here are my results so far:

Green is for complete research, Gold and bold borders for available research in current tech trees, and dashed lines for unstarted tech trees and things we can't research just yet.

Missing brackets might need to be manually added in occasionally, but as long as the current formatting is used this should be able to generate updated versions of the tech tree.

Speaking of technical solutions, would this help at all with the current voting system issues?

Edit: Found a few bugs in the display, but it still works for proof of concept.

Edit 2: Replaced with Vertical tech tree, adjusted borders.
This is completely awesome, WillRobinson! Congrats on your non-Research Omake bonus! (PM me for details).

I think that Vhalidictes has said that we can research budding, but I don't think it was ever a listed research project. You might be thinking of the Shadows on the Wall research project, which lets us understand Shard minds.
Anyone can suggest researching this. As far as I know, no one has submitted it yet.

It looks like info from sense-sharing is only received starting the day after the sense-share is created because the sense-shares we set up in the AM update didn't produce any info in the PM update. I'm wondering how many sense-shares we'll be allowed. For anyone who's curious, here's the current sense-shares we have along with what type of info they're most likely to produce or my best guess, if we haven't received any info yet:

Audible (Triumph) - Blaster? Based on power classifications website.
Frictionless (Ballistic) - Striker/Blaster? Based on power classifications website.
Fusion (Sundancer) - Master/Blaster? Based on power classifications website.
Gaea (Amy/Claire) - Tinker & small amounts of Brute and Changer.
Negotiator (Lisa) - Thinker. We might also receive info from her being near the other members of the Undersiders.
Shift (Sophia) - Breaker.
Singular (Bakuda) - Tinker.
Surveillance (Madison) - None until Madison triggers. Probably Tinker afterwards.
Swap (Trickster) - Mover? Based on power classifications website.
Telekinetic (Victoria) - Master, Shaker, & Thinker. We've also received Blaster, Changer, and Stranger info from her, but I think that was from capes nearby.
Twin (Coil) - Thinker.
Sense-shares are effectively limited to 25 or so, before penalties accrue. You're welcome to propose research topics on this to reduce the pain level. Note that you're going to get less and less non-asked-for details in the chapters as you increase the number of shares. I might limit things I proactively inform you of to major-situations-only after a point.

-[X] Tracer 4

Ask Tracer how it feels about catgirls and cultural appropriation

-[X] Gaea 1

Convince Gaea to make Claire release a catgirl virus that turns every white girl in Brockton Bay into a catgirl
(To make sure Rune is affected)
Do you really want to change BB into the Furry capital of Earth-Bet?

So, anyone have anything they'd like to see in a PHO interlude? If I'm going to try and do them every other update I could do with some ideas to act as filler if nothing exciting happens in the meantime.

Given enough forewarning I can likely have Vhal weigh in and try to help flesh out some ideas if I start it far enough in advance.
Just so everyone else knows, anyone is welcome to produce a PHO reactions post. We don't want to rely on just GrandMage!

I dunno. This just seems to be two or three different issues being mixed up.

As to Vhal having to write stuff, he doesn't seem to mind. Judging by his comment earlier, flu season is giving him more problems than anything else. Lorde knows real life has been throwing my schedules off like crazy (I mean, probably not, really. Do you think musicians read all their fan mail personally?).

If you're worried about getting a huge text dump you can't follow along with, well, I can understand that. The quest is kind of random in what days it hits, you have to follow along and try to get a vote in, as well as dealing with trying to convince others to go with your plans over the alternatives. . .

Maybe a dedicated schedule? Updates on, like, Fridays or something so people had the weekend to look over things? If Vhal can't make a deadline due to real life just skip the week entirely to keep issues from cropping up? I don't know how long meeting new Shards will tend to be. Unless we hit a bunch of sapient Shards (and they're supposed to be rare) most of the communication with Zion Shards should be pretty blah.

Once we get this update we'll be able to see how much it takes up and try to adjust the text dumps we're asking for in regards to what we've seen.
Sorry about the lack of update speed, everyone. I keep getting serially sick, and multiple people in my department are on leave, which makes writing time very scarce. I'm working on it :)

Side note: New firewall at work means that I can't browse SV from work any more, which isn' helping either. This might be fixable, but... it will take time.

I'll just point out that according to Vhal we got a big unnecessary complication by voting for time travel this round. I'm sure our do-everything-at-once approach isn't helping, but I get the impression that most of what we had planned was half-written or at least outlined before the time travel curve ball threw everything into disarray, delaying the update. Going by Vhal's track record, most chapters won't take this long.
This is hopefully true. In addition to writing the new chapter, I'm working on a lot of re-work for the old chapters. I might delay some of that until after the new chapter release, honestly. I hope not but I'm not sure.

On another note, I find it somewhat funny how we're trying to compare Taylor's alien brain to Victor's power. Imagine them fighting, he'd simply drain everything she's learned right out of her, turning a 15 year old with above average skill into a 15 year old. Like, what she can do is pretty nice and certainly above average, but still firmly within the realm of human capability. Increased intelligence and perfect memory alone just doesn't compare to actual parahuman powers. Examples of such can be (very rarely) found in humans with a normal human brain, whereas I'm pretty sure nobody ever casually went Dinah or Tattletale during human history.
Victor's power, and in fact any mind-interaction power, including electrical-type Masters, may not interact well with Taylor's mind-obfuscation. Best case, Taylor is immune. Worst-case, Taylor is lobotomized. I guess we'll just have to see how the interactions play out...

Edit: Just checked, and Taylor's brain is partitioned 75% into storage, 25% into combined thinking/storage. So her cognitive capacity has increased by however much of difference moving the 0-Point Corona and her memories out gives. I'm not too clear on if other parts of her personality are stored in the processing partition, though.
This is true - Taylor is abnormally intelligent now, but that could easily be increased by up to a factor of three with some re-partitioning.

On an unrelated note, given the similarities between Taylor's personality copy and the encrypted data stored in her brain, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the data contained is Khepri's mind. Consider that a Post-GM Lisa copy was sent to Negotiator. Maybe QA wanted to store her copy of Khepri, so she modified Taylor's brain to fit the data and stuffed in the compressed copy.
The data (in Taylor's head) was not Khepri.

Double posting to make sure Vhal sees this.

@Vhalidictes can we get a research tree for budding? Like something that eventually lets us give our buds whatever personality we want?

@Metoto if you so desperately want a pet QA, rather than risk things with the hostile one, let's make our own.
I can work out a tree for Budding, sure. What skill types would you be interested in?
 
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I can work out a tree for Budding, sure. What skill types would you be interested in?
  1. If we don't already know it, budding itself.
    1. Remote control of buds
      1. Remote editing of buds
    2. Storing the personalities of shards we eat.
      1. Budding those personalities.
    3. Create custom personalities for buds.
    4. Create specialized buds (like a communication specialized bud that can handle hundreds of incoming data streams, for example)
 
If we don't already know it, budding itself.
  1. Remote control of buds
    1. Remote editing of buds
  2. Storing the personalities of shards we eat.
    1. Budding those personalities.
  3. Create custom personalities for buds.
  4. Create specialized buds (like a communication specialized bud that can handle hundreds of incoming data streams, for example)

Oh snickerdoodles. Anybody have any non-Research bonuses and wants to avoid the Research and Information currency costs these'll get, best act now to lock it in before Vhal actually posts them, as I don;t think our "make a skill" bonus will cover an item that has costs.

Truly, Tiger is a vengeful one.

What an insidious suggestion!
Is this. . . a cryptic hint?
Quick, consult the cards!

Cards don't lie. It means. . . Something.
 
Oh snickerdoodles. Anybody have any non-Research bonuses and wants to avoid the Research and Information currency costs these'll get, best act now to lock it in before Vhal actually posts them, as I don;t think our "make a skill" bonus will cover an item that has costs.

Truly, Tiger is a vengeful one.
[/SPOILER]
I'm a bit confused. Isn't your omake bonus the "store personalities of Shards we eat" option?
 
I'm a bit confused. Isn't your omake bonus the "store personalities of Shards we eat" option?

Yes, it is. So that one, at least, we won't have to invest at least a roll and who knows how much research currency into.
Because I'll have already unlocked it. Which is why I'm making an appeal to others, although it strikes me Tiger is one of those people.
I can hear their wicked cackling from here, in a metaphorical sense.

Have you checked if it's a blatant hint?
The cards were quite clear. Look at the inverted Meaningless Garbage and the inverted It's Probably Nothing. Coupled with the Something it's clear the hint was there. If we look at the Crazy Mystical Shit we can see it's clearly a cryptic hint. This only leaves the first, and most important card: A Cactus On A Motorcycle With Udders. This card clearly shows exactly what you meant.
The Hodge and Podge are in alignment, and Eris has blessed me with received madness to understand.

I know your true name, and have glimpsed the form of your sire. And the status of his treasury.
I just don't know what your play is.
 
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I know your true name, and have glimpsed the form of your sire. And the status of his treasury.
I just don't know what your play is.
Wait a second, I believe I have seen a hint as to TT's true nature somewhere...
► Winged_One
Replied on November 8, 2010:

Thanks for your help, GM. Good to see someone is willing to fix what they're breaking.

Took a lot of planning to set that all up, you know. RA, you have the right idea. K, I don't think you realize how hard our job actually is. I'd rather a vacation than more finicky tasks.

M, don't even think about it. I'm watching you.

Watch out for TT's betrayal.
Watch out for TT's betrayal.
Clearly, a wise precognitive somewhere has foreseen we would stumble upon this topic and that Grandmage would read the cards, leading up to this moment. Clearly, we see ourselves faced with a sudden, yet inevitable betrayal.
 
In addition to writing the new chapter, I'm working on a lot of re-work for the old chapters.
Oh crap.
Curse you, future time traveling us! How much of the time stream will you soon have mangled in your inexpert attempts to already have Halped?

I will rely on the dedicated work of others to go through before and after versions of the older chapters to learn what events will have happened differently.
 
This is hopefully true. In addition to writing the new chapter, I'm working on a lot of re-work for the old chapters. I might delay some of that until after the new chapter release, honestly. I hope not but I'm not sure.
Oh crap.
Curse you, future time traveling us! How much of the time stream will you soon have mangled in your inexpert attempts to already have Halped?

I will rely on the dedicated work of others to go through before and after versions of the older chapters to learn what events will have happened differently.
The one good thing coming from this is that the timeline is now shot anyway. The changes to past events don't need to come in a sequential manner- Vhal can edit them in whenever without mucking up the narrative. To quote A Practical Guide to Evil: The situation is fluid. We're keeping our options open.
 
How rude! :rage: You make it sound like I'm a liar and a cheat!
I have ironclad proof in the trustworthy words of Winged_One and the tarot cards read by the Grandmage. Your lowly and treacherous intentions have been unveiled!
. . .

. . . I don't know if this can even be called hindsight anymore.
Do something stupid, curse your past self for what happens, do something stupid again. The cycle of life continues.
We did it to ourselves.
Self-mutilation seems to be somewhat of a specialty of ours.
 
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This is all a Simurgh plot
Arguably, the entirety of Worm canon was a Simurgh plot aimed at putting Taylor into the right position and mindset to become Khepri, as well arranging the other characters (Panpan and Riley) into their respective positions. Do you really want to be like canon Taylor? A completely neurotic and broken individual meant only to be relevant until their final use as a weapon?
 
Although I don't think the end goal is what you're implying it is.
You imply that the simurgh only has one goal.

Arguably, the entirety of Worm canon was a Simurgh plot aimed at putting Taylor into the right position and mindset to become Khepri, as well arranging the other characters (Panpan and Riley) into their respective positions. Do you really want to be like canon Taylor? A completely neurotic and broken individual meant only to be relevant until their final use as a weapon?
I don't see how that's related to the simurgh trying to sow discord.
 
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