Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

On the matter of alchemical substances and bad association, those are certainly there for Molly but:
  1. Using alchemy to not sleep ever is not a recreational drug, it has a clear utility and is meant to give you more time
  2. It is a thing she would be making herself and imbuing with her own magic, she would know just what is in it and all the risks, a lot of the issues she has with drugs are not just bad associations, but the loss of control over one's own body and discernment
There is certainly a universe where Molly makes that five day awake potion and downs it every five days, though it should also be noted that other people might not be so easily persuaded that it is all fine.
 
Citation about Lydia's armor:
You are my child Lydia, a princess in exile, but a princess just the same, the mere passage days in the sunlit world will not be your end, not unless the very thread of ages if run to its end and I will not be that tardy, this I vow. Now listen, we do not have long, there are the federal agents outside. There is a chest under my desk that has some gifts for you so that you do not have to go into battle in borrowed chainmail, but more importantly you will find my will, go to Signore Rici and give him the letter on top, he will know what to do with it. Emancipation... ah," he sighs. "I wish we had more time, but as a man more skilled in the leading of armies than empire once said ask me for anything but time. I wish we did not have to do this at all, but most of all in the United States. If the process falls through vanish, fall off the grid until you are eighteen. It will be hard and uncomfortable, but the risk of an enemy, someone who wishes you ill, obtaining custody is far too great."
 
Soon enough they'll be trying to go around our soak, not through it.
Which is awefully difficult when Molly is equally resistant to aggravated damage as to any other by the way.
There are very few options for dealing unsoakable damage in this system, which is at least partially the case because most monsters have specific weaknesses you can be clever about.

Since Molly cares not whether she is attacked by bare fists, shotguns with dragonbreath ammunition, silver or iron swords, claws or grenades, or any-fucking-thing else, you have very few options left to hurt her (unless you don't give her enough time to activate things like Steel Skin and VLE, nevermind Shintai).
These options are:
1. Stupidly high damage
2. Those very few abilities that deal truly unsoakable damage
3. Mental attacks fuck you I'm Exalted and have a low-cost perfect defence
4. Curses/Debufffs various weakening effects (will only matter until she buys a shaping defence)
5. Overwhelming numbers with big firepower (like a small army with good equipment)
 
Last edited:
It says nothing about effects of prolonged use by normals, actually. Mental or physical. I checked.
Well, in path to power it says "•• 160-Hour Energy Drink: A vial of liquid that allows the drinker to go a week with only a single hour of sleep per night without penalties.". So I feel at least somewhat justified in my assertion.
My brother in Christ, if coffee could keep you up for a week, it would be a controlled substance.
If it didn't have any other effects, no, it wouldn't, and it would almost certainly be near mandatory to drink it in the modern world.
Even the Sorcery books either call it a no-sleep potion or an energy drink. Nobody calls it coffee.
Coffee is an energy drink.

I get it, you disagree here, strongly. I do too. This is not a recreational lifestyle drink. This is, at most, an energy drink. Easily interpreted as maigcally more efficient coffee.

How do you define drugs? Lifestyle drugs at that? Is water a drug? You need to drink it habitually, or you'll suffer and die. Is food a drug? If well-made, it brings sensual pleasure and, again, it's addictive. Is sugar a drug? At least some medical studies suggest so.

You like to go to Molly's character. Let's ask ourselves - what would Molly consider a drug based on her experience? As far as I can tell, her definition is likely to be something along the lines of "a chemical substance that, when consumed, induces altered state of consciousness, and is addiction-forming", where addiction would almost certainly be meant "causes withdrawl symptoms if consumption is stopped". "Super coffee" doesn't fall under either of those parameters. It doesn't induce altered state of consciousness, as far as we know from description. You compare it to Met, but that's wrong. It doesn't make you more active, or manic, or energetic. It just suppresses the need for sleep (or, rather, it makes the sleep more efficient, from the looks of it). And it isn't addiction forming. At most, Molly might associate "no sleep potion" with steroids, since yes, they do behave similarly in a way (steroids of certain types let you train for longer, while this potion lets you go without sleep for longer). But her drug experience wasn't with steroids at all. It would be, at most, an academic association. Enough to prompt additional precautions, like making such potion and using the Crown on it to check it for long-term side effects / addictiveness, and to consult Dresden and Bob, and maybe talk to father Forthil. But certainly not enough to instinctively disabuse the notion of using it habitually.
You're not getting that car down into Undertown to store combat servitors inside it so they can be active indefinitely; at most you can fit 2-4 small servitors in the trunk without drawing undue comment.
Why not? Lydia goes to Last Station, uses Carriage of the Ankou. Loads it with combat servitors. Leaves it there. Then summons it the battlefield. As long as the station itself is large enough to house the car, the Carriage is usable.
They exist, they do bad shit. What do you expect the Librarians to do about it?
Point federal investigators at them. Like, fairly sure at least some of their medical research is straight up illegal, if nothing else.

EDIT:
There is certainly a universe where Molly makes that five day awake potion and downs it every five days, though it should also be noted that other people might not be so easily persuaded that it is all fine.
Indeed. We would obviously need to talk to Charity and Michael and Dresden about it, use the Crown as a precaution to ask for long-term side-effects, probably promise Charity not to sneak out of the house at night and to spend at least some time studying, and maybe take a break one week out of a month or something like that, etc. Reasonable precautions.

But it's certainly doable, and not some sort of anathema taboo idea IC.
 
Last edited:
Right now, without buying any more Attributes, just a charm and a spell?
Inb4 everything - that's a bunch of xp, tbh. Soul Sieve for +2/3 soak? +2 Stamina? That doesn't feel great as an investment, tbh.

+1 Soak for 10 XP doesn't feel good either, but at least that spell has other utility, like tech not breaking in the vicinity of magic anymore.

That said, concerning usefulness of More Soak- there is always a potential to get in a fight with a Loup Garou or Naagloshii; DP did express the willingness to jack up the threat rating of encounters, and not all of them are going to be tricksy "aha, lets just bypass you weakness" in a setting where things that can tear apart metal with their bare hands exist.

I suppose there is also Ethniu and whatever other ridiculous gribbles that would be a level appropriate encounter at E5+, but that's far future, and proper responce to all that isn't +2 Stamina, but Open Eye of the Hurricane.

Concerning Power Armor specifically, "good" PA both in Mage and Exalted is typically more than just a big slab of soak dice, although it is certainly that, too. Stat enhancers are typical, so is mobility, and various gadgets that could sub for some minor charms or get out-of-splat effects.

It doesn't suck more than it actually does; -dex penalty outweight most of that anyway.
 
Last edited:
When it comes to the armor debate we have a few different requirements which might even need more than one suit of armor.

1st casual wear: Armor the we can wear at all times without social problems.

2nd : Wet: We want armor that keeps us wet at all times to make everything easier. Including getting good grades.

We might make a second suit for when we are going looking for a fight, but right now a armored wet suit of some type seems like what we should be focusing our brain power on. We don't spend that much time looking for a fight.
 
Last edited:
+1 Soak for lots of XP is bad, Soul Sieve is a bad investment
Akchually, it also has a pretty strong debuff stapled onto it, so that particular one example is wrong. Still a big meh on stamina 5, tho.

new post because idk if edit would be noticed.
2nd : Wet: We want armor that keeps us wet at all times to make everything easier. Including getting good grades.
I would rather not spend XP when we could just craft a trinket, but there is also a number of charms that could accomplish wet-at-will effect. Or even paths; Hellfire 1, water spec.
 
I would rather not spend XP when we could just craft a trinket, but there is also a number of charms that could accomplish wet-at-will effect. Or even paths; Hellfire 1, water spec.
I am certainly not talking about XP. Crafting something fashionable, protective and stays wet doesn't seem like something we can't do if we apply a bit of brain power to the problem.

However I can't look up a design because armored wetsuits are generally made for swimming. Armor that keeps you wet isn't a common design goal even if it doesn't seem like a hard one.

We could just vote to craft, but I want details so we can stunt it.
 
Last edited:
Which is awefully difficult when Molly is equally resistant to aggravated damage as to any other by the way.
There are very few options for dealing unsoakable damage in this system, which is at least partially the case because most monsters have specific weaknesses you can be clever about.
Anything that can deal exalted Holy type damage would fuck over an infernal.

+1 Soak for 10 XP doesn't feel good either, but at least that spell has other utility, like tech not breaking in the vicinity of magic anymore.
It very good as it functionally 10 xp for + 1 soak for everybody, not just Molly.
 
Anyway, I havent voted.

VOTE
[X]Plan Snitching
-[X] Just the brief meeting with Wright
-[X] The fact that they tried to bug your car, probably illegally
-[X] Explain your suspicion that someone associated with the events of 22nd July might be manipulating the FBI
-[X] What is the Library of Congress' relationship with
--[X] ...the Catholic Church?
--[X] ...the White Council?
-[X] When he says his organization destroys knowledge what does he mean?
-[X]STUNT: You interlace your fingers in your lap as you close your eyes. How to put this..."An observer" you start, in an attempt at detachment "of local...events, would notice that the timeline journalists have reported for the museum atrocity" and here you fail to keep the snarl out of your voice "seemed to have coincided with the time period when the FBI and CPD took Harry Dresden into custody on homicide charges. Given the lengthy preparations it must have taken to infiltrate an institution in the heart of Chicago and manage to murder that many victims without drawing attention, a suspicious mind might wonder what other preparations were taken." You open your eyes and fix him with your blue one. "Im not impugning any of the field agents here, Mr Hyde. They have their share of culpability, but I doubt they set policy." You say nothing about their bosses, and you see his eyes flicker at where you lay emphasis. "But it strikes me that if you wanted to commit a mass murder to magic purposes, you might find it useful to be able to use law enforcement to remove opposition. And its a fact that Agent Wright and his colleagues became active here in time to impede one of the people who might have noticed and prevented the murders of 22nd July. It raises questions about who arranged for agents of the National Security Division to come to Chicago with such...fortuitous timing." There is a pause of several seconds when neither of the other two men in the room says anything, then you smile a mirthless smile. "And when you consider all that, you begin to wonder what kind of result was hoped for when someone ordered a group of federal agents and a SWAT team to arrest a wizard in the middle of the Vampire War. At a time when, as you said, all too many respond readily with force."


RATIONALE
Like I said, we dont know this guy or his organization well enough to be handing out primers for negotiating the Thousand Hells.
Trust has to be earned there.

And I specifically edited Kattrin's name out of the FBI accusation.
I dont want to risk irritating Odin before finding out if he'd mind.
 
Last edited:
Why not? Lydia goes to Last Station, uses Carriage of the Ankou. Loads it with combat servitors. Leaves it there. Then summons it the battlefield. As long as the station itself is large enough to house the car, the Carriage is usable.
Why bother with huge, or even person sized, war machines if we can shape their bodies for them?

Even without woodworking specifically, Molly is excellent at crafting stuff. If you squint a little making mechanical systems out of wood is still mechanics anyway, so we might be able to work that in to the same effect.

Take the same volume and fill it with master crafted hardwood spiders of sizes ranging from serving platter to thumbnail.

Depending on just how far it can stretch they could be given limbs capped in metal blades and internal explosives that they can set off as suicide charges once they're crawling on someone.

If we assume the vehicle is something capable of holding 4-5 people, and 3 people's weight is in wooden drones then Lydia could respond to being upset by burying people in something like 400 lbs/181 kg of pissed off exploding bladed spiders.

Other figurine sized animals would also work, though bugs are probably the creepiest option assuming we stick with natural templates at all.

It's almost too bad both Molly and Lydia are goody two shoes; if you think like a mad scientist the possibilities are endless.

I don't care how tough you are, if someone throws a fistful of splinter edged critters the size of your pinky who's greatest ambition in life is to nest in people's eyes at your face you're going to have issues focusing on anything else for a bit.

They last for a lunar month and keep indefinitely at a dragon nest, so there isn't much of a reason not to keep what the unimaginative (that is, sane :V) might call an unnecessarily large pile of horrifying murder-drones around to draw from at need.

Without the nest the essence economy of keeping lots of small things around is trash, but we have one so we might as well take advantage.

Edit:

[X] Uju32
 
Last edited:
I would rather not spend XP when we could just craft a trinket, but there is also a number of charms that could accomplish wet-at-will effect. Or even paths; Hellfire 1, water spec.
Weather Control 1 for a brief shower, or enough mist to wet everything down. 4xp.
All Devouring Depths, the capstone charm for Hell of Boiling Oil. 20xp

Well, in path to power it says "•• 160-Hour Energy Drink: A vial of liquid that allows the drinker to go a week with only a single hour of sleep per night without penalties.". So I feel at least somewhat justified in my assertion.
Without penalties while the drug is active.
No fatigue, no debuffs to Wits or Dexterity. It makes no guarantees about afterwards. So the QM is free to say nothing happens, or that you have a hangover, or that prolonged use starts fucking you up.

At least, if you were a vanilla mortal.
Like I said, Molly is an Exalt; she shrugs off physical consequences that would be debilitating for others.
Psychological, and social consequences remain.
If it didn't have any other effects, no, it wouldn't, and it would almost certainly be near mandatory to drink it in the modern world.
I call bullshit.
Sleep is when minors do most of their growing, for one thing.
Noone's forcing you to chew qat or kola today, and those already exist with minimal health consequences .
Coffee isnt even mandatory, and its known to contain a stimulant.
Coffee is an energy drink
Coffee contains a stimulant. It does not fit the definition used for energy drink.
And there are actual health benefits to coffee

QM has ruled that its possible for Molly to IC decide to use it if we vote for it, but that there would be social consequences to navigate.I still think it would be a bad idea, and I remain oppposed to normalizing it outside emergencies.
Why not? Lydia goes to Last Station, uses Carriage of the Ankou. Loads it with combat servitors. Leaves it there. Then summons it the battlefield. As long as the station itself is large enough to house the car, the Carriage is usable.
Undertown is not car navigable as far as I know. In parts its barely foot navigable iirc Heorot correctly.
Note how the two entrances we know to Undertown have been foot traffic only.

And I most definitely would not advocate taking a vehicle that vents carbon monoxide down into an enclosed space.

Point federal investigators at them. Like, fairly sure at least some of their medical research is straight up illegal, if nothing else.
No it isnt. The fuckery that they were doing with gossamer underwater? There's no legal evidence.
The senior abuse? Sure. Thats already a crime, and feds will already be on it.
Especially with so much of the staff vanished into thin air.

The mundane investigators doing the Souls Rest investigation will unravel the financial connections and the shell companies
And gut them.
Thats none of our concern.

And I'd prefer to keep our fingers clear of that entire investigation in the eyes of the Feds.
At least until we have a measure of trust involved.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jan 5, 2023 at 6:17 PM, finished with 112 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] The fact that they tried to bug your car, probably illegally
    [X] Explain Katrina and your suspicion that someone associated with her might be manipulating the FBI
    -[X] DO NOT tell him about murdering anyone. At all. In general do not tell him anything that can be used against you in the court of law.
    -[X] Explain how first the police was used against Dresden, and then the FBI.
    [X] What is the Library of Congress' relationship with
    -[X] ...the Catholic Church?
    -[X] ...the White Council?
    [X] When he says his organization destroys knowledge what does he mean?
    [X] Are they open to collaboration? You are already writing that book with Bob after all, offering them a copy would cost you nothing.
    -[X] DO NOT mention Bob
    [X] If they are a library, how do you get the library card for their occult section?
    [X]Plan Snitching
    -[X] Just the brief meeting with Wright
    -[X] The fact that they tried to bug your car, probably illegally
    -[X] Explain your suspicion that someone associated with the events of 22nd July might be manipulating the FBI
    -[X] What is the Library of Congress' relationship with
    --[X] ...the Catholic Church?
    --[X] ...the White Council?
    -[X] When he says his organization destroys knowledge what does he mean?
    -[X]STUNT: You interlace your fingers in your lap as you close your eyes. How to put this..."An observer" you start, in an attempt at detachment "of local...events, would notice that the timeline journalists have reported for the museum atrocity" and here you fail to keep the snarl out of your voice "seemed to have coincided with the time period when the FBI and CPD took Harry Dresden into custody on homicide charges. Given the lengthy preparations it must have taken to infiltrate an institution in the heart of Chicago and manage to murder that many victims without drawing attention, a suspicious mind might wonder what other preparations were taken." You open your eyes and fix him with your blue one. "Im not impugning any of the field agents here, Mr Hyde. They have their share of culpability, but I doubt they set policy." You say nothing about their bosses, and you see his eyes flicker at where you lay emphasis. "But it strikes me that if you wanted to commit a mass murder to magic purposes, you might find it useful to be able to use law enforcement to remove opposition. And its a fact that Agent Wright and his colleagues became active here in time to impede one of the people who might have noticed and prevented the murders of 22nd July. It raises questions about who arranged for agents of the National Security Division to come to Chicago with such...fortuitous timing." There is a pause of several seconds when neither of the other two men in the room says anything, then you smile a mirthless smile. "And when you consider all that, you begin to wonder what kind of result was hoped for when someone ordered a group of federal agents and a SWAT team to arrest a wizard in the middle of the Vampire War. At a time when, as you said, all too many respond readily with force."
    [X] The fact that they tried to bug your car, probably illegally
    [X] What is the Library of Congress' relationship with
    -[X] ...the Catholic Church?
    [X] Write In - "Look, they're not very competent, and in their bumbling around they're going to offend someone far more scary than me eventually. Or worse, get suborned. I thought they were fishy after they tried to illegally bug my car, so I hacked into their systems and discovered that they deliberately arrested Dresden - a White Council Regional Warden Commander - when they knew he was innocent to try and blackmail him. Dresden was at the time pursuing a group of Kemmlerite Nazi Necromancers and their intervention meant the Nazi's almost managed to get away.'
    [X] Write in - "Well, to start with he arrested a man he knew for a fact was innocent in an attempt to pressure him into working for them, without any real protections stopping that man from twisting them into a knot save his own moral code. That was both deeply unethical and dangerously stupid."
    [X] The fact that they tried to bug your car, probably illegally
    [X] Explain Katrina and your suspicion that someone associated with her might be manipulating the FBI
    [X] What is the Library of Congress' relationship with
    -[X] ...the Catholic Church?
    -[X] ...the White Council?
    [X] When he says his organization destroys knowledge what does he mean?
    [X] Are they open to collaboration? You are already writing that book with Bob after all, offering them a copy would cost you nothing.
    [X] If they are a library, how do you get the library card for their occult section?
    [X] Write in - Oh, god, they are... um... really really unprepaired to deal with basically, well, anything to do with the supernatural while mistakenly beliving they have a handle on it due to the tiny drop of power they have. I know. I was in the same place too. I got impaled on a spike of ice in Arctis Tor for it and now I am... well, you noticed the cold. Please, if you have that sort of authority, intervene. They should not go through what I did.
 
Back
Top