Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Until Molly got VEE being a demigod disqualified you from having it.

Did it? I don't think there were any demigod examples in canon. The closest was a concept of "scion", a half-human. And while none of them were wizard talents, there was also nothing I remember that said a scion couldn't be. If they had Free Will, a human soul and a mortal parent with talent, then why not?

So depending on how much the White Council knows about Lydia and how Exaltation interacts with mortal magic, I think they could cope that she found a way to awaken a talent she inherited from her mortal mother.

You'd think the White Council would give wizards a basic run-down of who not to piss off, or even just a basic supernatural primer, but apparently Harry slept through those lessons.

Outside of Warden training, we have no examples of the Council deviating from the apprenticeship model in education. It would have been the job of his master to teach him such things, while DuMorne, and likely, McCoy hid things from him.

He got his instruction on magic and his general belief system on it from McCoy. There's only so much ignorance to appeal to before we throw out the actual setting in the process, because Harry is the viewpoint of the entire series.

I think McCoy hid such things from Harry on purpose. From a certain point of view, it makes sense to not want to teach your grandkid in rehab about all those, who are happy to offer tempting deals. Especially if you don't want him to end up like your daughter, who was infamous for associating with that crowd.

In hindsight, it might seem ridiculous for anybody to think that Harry could ever hide in ignorance and irrelevancy, but I don't think it was a totally unbelievable mistake for McCoy to make at the time.
 
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Uh, by the time McCoy was teaching Harry, Harry was already involved with the Winter Court. He owed 3 massive unconditional favors to Mab's right hand, and that's with Lea being lenient when you consider Harry bartered away his "life, fortune, and power."

Like, there's a time and place to argue over the effectiveness of an abstinence only education, but when your student has already screwed up this big, it's long past time to start giving some basic tips.
 
Uh, by the time McCoy was teaching Harry, Harry was already involved with the Winter Court. He owed 3 massive unconditional favors to Mab's right hand,

I can't recall specifically, but did McCoy even know that, at that point? I mean, Harry had to tell the Council he killed DuMorne is self-defense, but why would he tell about his deal with Leanansidhe?

Harry would have no motive to tell and maybe get himself into more trouble. It's not like he knew McCoy was his grandfather. And the Council would not have had to inherently suspect outside empowerment, because Harry already had enough magical power to kill DuMorne at that point. Lea only gave him a confidence boost, not some Fae magic.
 
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If it's an option it occurs to me that Harry would wish for a way to better protect Maggie. Is there a merit or something for that?
 
If it's an option it occurs to me that Harry would wish for a way to better protect Maggie. Is there a merit or something for that?
There's a guardian angel merit, but I am fairly sure you cannot wish it for someone else,and we had a ruling that we cannot directly involve specific third parties in VEE wishes.

Learning Emerald Circle Binding and bartering with Mab for a bodyguard squad for Maggie in return for a group of fae not bound by debt system seems like a plausible option.
 
As a thought for Harry's wish - native understanding / knowledge of Primordial language. It serves as difficulty decreaser for magic, and should immunize him to SCCP.
 
Did it? I don't think there were any demigod examples in canon. The closest was a concept of "scion", a half-human. And while none of them were wizard talents, there was also nothing I remember that said a scion couldn't be. If they had Free Will, a human soul and a mortal parent with talent, then why not?

So depending on how much the White Council knows about Lydia and how Exaltation interacts with mortal magic, I think they could cope that she found a way to awaken a talent she inherited from her mortal mother.
Scions are a known category. The sight is thought to be a pure mortal power and one you only get the real version of if you're a wizard.

I'm not saying they'll explode, but a significant amount of the identity wizards have built up around their magic rests on the idea that it's a separate and special thing. That what they have is different from and better than what nonhuman supernaturals do, of which the sight is a significant part.

Recall that they don't have a very high opinion of nonhumans either. Magical feedback works the same for murder regardless of the victim, but the first law exclusively protects human life.

This is sort of like a less intense version of how a Garou might feel about a vampire demonstrating access to one of their favorite spirit gifts.
Uh, by the time McCoy was teaching Harry, Harry was already involved with the Winter Court. He owed 3 massive unconditional favors to Mab's right hand, and that's with Lea being lenient when you consider Harry bartered away his "life, fortune, and power."

Like, there's a time and place to argue over the effectiveness of an abstinence only education, but when your student has already screwed up this big, it's long past time to start giving some basic tips.
What part are you talking about? Harry knew the general idea of the courts and their power, he just didn't know about the outer gates situation. Which isn't something that's actively hidden, but also isn't something actively advertised.

Harry canonically has binders full of demons, spirits, and various fey to summon that it's implied he got as part of his training from McCoy. I don't think his education was skimped on here.

As a thought for Harry's wish - native understanding / knowledge of Primordial language. It serves as difficulty decreaser for magic, and should immunize him to SCCP.
Can't we just teach him that?

AP is always in high demand, but it feels wasteful to spend a once a year reality warping wish on something he could technically get without too much trouble without it.


There's a guardian angel merit, but I am fairly sure you cannot wish it for someone else,and we had a ruling that we cannot directly involve specific third parties in VEE wishes.

Learning Emerald Circle Binding and bartering with Mab for a bodyguard squad for Maggie in return for a group of fae not bound by debt system seems like a plausible option.
If he's bartering with them then he's going to be opening himself to debt magic. It's like how reds are allergic to symbols of faith even if the wielder doesn't have True Faith in the sense that gives miracles. It's a property they being with them.

ESB specifically bypasses that for the service it demands, but that doesn't mean if you make a different deal with the fey outside that scope they stop being fey.

Also, winter baby sitters are a fantastically bad idea. If he needs body guards he should just use our nice safe demons.

Is there a reason you're so focused on getting him ancient sorcery in particular?
 
From Most Recent to Oldest (Like the list of Khornate massacres this list might be incomplete you can Help by Expanding It.)
Would be Lord of Empires End (Abyssal)
The Fallen of Lost Judgement (Akariel / Denerian Host body)
Legacy of Kemmler's Evil (Anti-Bob
Shadows of Oblivion (Mortewrights)
Master of the Accursed (Drusus)
Traitors in the Halls (Warlocks of the White Council)
A Mordite Lord of Outer Night (Red Vampire)
An Abominable Creator (Horace Shaw)
Ascendancy of Man (Abomination of Mikaboshi)
Warden Patrol (Akuma and Cyber demons of Mikaboshi)
Stone Spinning Spider Wanna-Be Demon Batman (Akuma of Mikaboshi)
Terminus Herald Raiding party (Spirits of steel and murder of the Wicked city)
The Mind Warlock (Sandra Marling)
The Great Blood Red of Vegas (The Dragon)
Servants of The Knights Beyond the World (Large Fracture Beasts)
The Thing Wearing the Skin of the Thing Wearing Skin (Possessed Vampire Orpheus)
Chemical X Reds (Mind thrall Vampires of Sandra)
The Not Man Out of Time ('Nathanael Cobler' Black Vampire)
The Summer Fragments of He Who Walks Behind (Nemesis Tendril)
The Thousand Headed, Thousand Horned The Wyld War 'God' (Iku Turso)
The Duchess Daughter of Stolen Divinity (Arianna Ortega)
The Bloody Hands of the Lady (Red Court Elders retainers of Arianna)
The Shapechanging Victim of Foul Teachings (Hank 'Student' of the Naagloshii)
He Who Faced The Child of Empyreal Chaos Undaunted (He Who Walks Unbowed)
The Lover of Fear Clad in Lust (Madrigal Raith)
The Winter Fragments of He Who Walks Behind (Nemesis Tendril)
The Spider Among Web Weavers (The Spirit Spying on Lara Raith)
The Blade of Shadows and Hatred (The Will of Kakuri)
A Refiner of Nightmares (Rhys the Ragged)
Small Horrors Refined into Nightmares (The Mindless former Humans changed into Fomori - Frogmen and Worm)
A Doctor Inured to Suffering ('Doctor' Niemi)
Valkyrie Astride the Undying (Katrina)
People Forgotten and Forsaken (The Ghouls and Ghost of the Undercity Bound or compelled to serve Katrina)
Things from Beyond the World (Fracture Beasts)
Creatures in Service of Winter (Fey Spirit Spiders)
One of the Assholes You Got revenge On (Scarecrow)
This list is great, but @DragonParadox , shouldnt it be in the informational threadmarks? Apocrypha is generally understood to be non-canon stuff, so people might misunderstand this to be just an omake instead of a valid kill list.
 
Can't we just teach him that?

AP is always in high demand, but it feels wasteful to spend a once a year reality warping wish on something he could technically get without too much trouble without it.
Maybe we could teach him, but that would be a massive endeavor, and likely to take more than a year. Using the canon teaching charm might be a better option, maybe?
If he's bartering with them then he's going to be opening himself to debt magic. It's like how reds are allergic to symbols of faith even if the wielder doesn't have True Faith in the sense that gives miracles. It's a property they being with them.

ESB specifically bypasses that for the service it demands, but that doesn't mean if you make a different deal with the fey outside that scope they stop being fey.
The idea is that for Mab / TItania having a number of fae agents that she can direct that aren't bound by debt system is massively more valuable than for Harry. So, instead of just directly using ESB to generate up to essence level bound fae, Harry (or Molly) could instead offer this as a service for Mab, where the summoner will be on the supply side of the transaction. Essentially, for Harry it would be something like "I give you these two fae that I command to obey you like they would obey me for a year, and you give me 20 winter combat agents to guard, but not interact with, Maggie".
Also, winter baby sitters are a fantastically bad idea. If he needs body guards he should just use our nice safe demons.
Not baby sitters, bodyguards. And more specifically NeverNever side bodyguards, for whom NeverNever and Earth are far more familiar territory than for our agents. For babysitters, obviously Hand agents are far better.
Is there a reason you're so focused on getting him ancient sorcery in particular?
Harry is the magic man. Magic is his thing. He's genuinely talented in it too. And he earned Enlightenment and the ability to expand his repertoire to Ancient Sorcery. He is the only person right now with the potential to use both Ancient Sorcery and Wizard magic. And we know that Wizard magic can mess with absolute effects, like charms. So, it's conceivable that it can interact with Ancient Sorcery too. And a hybrid system likely opens up some options that neither side has on its own. I find that possibility worth investigating.
 
Arc 16 Post 4: For Memory, For Luck New
For Memory, For Luck

17th of March 2007 A.D.

Gregor, that was the first word that came to Chairty's mind when Molly finished speaking, oh not that madman himself, Molly couldn't have been more different from him, but the thing he looked for.

'I can grant wishes'.

Gregor would have sold his soul for something like that, knowledge, insight, magic, for him it would have been the same thing, power over others. Just speak the words and the world bends. She tried to remember Uriel's words about what Molly had inherited, a thing from another time, a thing from an older world, not the kind that turned around suns, but a different cosmos. An Angel of the Lord had looked at Molly and apologized. Charity was starting to understand why.

This wasn't just power people would kill for or even power they would die for, this was power they would kneel for, bestriding that invisible line between magic and miracle, it had limits maybe, but not the limits of human influence, of understanding and whatever gift of birth marked a wizard from one who was not.

"Mom... I am sure it is safe, it just feels creepy when you accept because it allows me to make a claim of the person in question for a year and a day or else they go... well on holiday to Sanctuary," Molly was still trying to reassure her with a smile. "I could make it so whoever breaks the rules gets sent into a prison cell, or a safe entrance chamber. Regina already has something worked out, we are getting more and more used to taking in people from Earth and it's not like they would have to stay there long."

Michael had been looking down at the counter and thinking about something, maybe praying from the way his eyes sometimes went up from there. Finally he seems to have an idea.

"Confirmation."

"Er...what?" Molly seemed surprised, but Charity understood.

"Daniel, Michael and Alicia have passed though their confirmation, that's a much more serious 'claim' as you put it, they should understand the gravity of this, but not Hope Amanda or Hank."

"What about you two?" Molly asked looking between them hopefully.

"I am content that I will find what I need when I need it," Michael said simply. "Of what I simply want I have it all already."

Charity wished she had that confidence, being honest with herself that Faith. If one of her children was ever taken again... well she didn't know what she would need did she. That was an answer of a sort and not just her not having the courage to say yay or nay.

"Maybe later."

Of all the reactions she had expected when Alicia came home form softball practice it wasn't to carefully set the water bottle on the kitchen table and say. "I wish I had eidetic memory."

The light in the room turned green, a sort of shimmering uncertainty where you couldn't be sure what was real and what wasn't. Definitely a good idea to lower the blinds, Charity thought a little numbly.

"Done/Cool," the two sisters said as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

Alicia Carpenter gains Eidetic Memory: A character with an eidetic memory remembers the general sense of everything that she experiences, and she has greater ease in total recall. Under normal conditions, your character easily remembers everything that happens to her. In stressful situations (like memorizing a book during a firefight,) you may need to make a Perception + Alertness roll (difficulty 6) to memorize or recall the pertinent information.

For his part Daniel thinks about it for maybe ten, fifteen minutes than he walks over to his sister and whispers something in her ear and the light flares again.

"He wished for luck..." Molly explained smoothly.

But before she could finish what would doubtless be a very reasonable explanation Charity finished: "When he's in danger." Maybe she couldn't read Molly as well as he once had, but Daniel hadn't come across a way to hide the way his ears reddened when he did something he knew was reckless. Even though this wasn't. Charity didn't for a moment think her eldest son would be less likely to walk into danger if he thought it was the right thing to do without that luck. Better that he have it than not.

Daniel Carpenter gains Nine Lives: When a roll occurs that would result in the character's death, the roll is made again. If the next roll succeeds, then your character lives - and one of your nine lives is used up. If that subsequent roll fails, then another re-roll is made, until either a successful roll occurs or your nine lives are used up. The storyteller should keep careful count of how many lives the character has remaining.

Mathew is the last one, setting down his school bag with a thump opening and closing his mouth more than once before asking finally, slowly, a mixture of dread and interest in his voice asked.

"Can I ask for magic stuff?"

Charity froze, she hadn't thought of that. How had she not thought of that? her own mind screamed at her to say no, but she hadn't said so before and for all her children might think her too strict she wasn't an arbitrary parent, changing the rules when it suited her from one moment to another, but she wished... she wishes Molly would say no just the same.

What does Molly say?

[] Yes to magic wishes

[] No to magic wishes

[] Write in


OOC: Daniel is the kind of person who goes on to study magical martial arts for to try to keep up with his Exalted girlfriend, Mathew is a thirteen year old kid who was just given a genie wish and it fired up his imagination. Your call on if you want to let him take some kind of supernatural merit. His parents aren't going to speak up, but you do not even need a roll to see how Chairty feels about this.
 
Am I missing context for why we might say no to Mathew wishing?
The context is Charity's hang ups with magic. As a character Molly Carpenter has nothing against or really any problem with magic as a thing so him asking us questions about magic merits is completely fine for us to say yes but we can tell from the look on her mother's face that she has a massive problem with it. It's just whether or not we're going to care that Charity has a problem with it.

Though now that I've articulated the idea I no longer have any concern.

[X] Yes to magic wishes

Edit: Ivar ninja Again
 
I will note that supernatural merits include far more than just obvious magic. But also Clear Sighted or Bardic Gift. Or Cloak of the Seasons which simply makes the weather insignificant to a person. Or Disney likes friendship with animals.

Which reminds me. There are a bunch of merits for Garou. And therefore they can go to our visiting werewolves too! It's time to pump up Alphas too.
 
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