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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[] No, do not join the Order of the Cauldron


These people, whilst nice and well intentioned, are simply in a different weight class to us. All joining the Order of the Cauldron will do is consume AP and drag these minor practitioners into fights they have no business being in. And they will be dragged in, simply by being in a organisation with us.

Better to remain independent, for their safety if nothing else.
 
FriedIce said:
[] No, do not join the Order of the Cauldron


These people, whilst nice and well intentioned, are simply in a different weight class to us. All joining the Order of the Cauldron will do is consume AP and drag these minor practitioners into fights they have no business being in. And they will be dragged in, simply by being in a organisation with us.

Better to remain independent, for their safety if nothing else.
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On the other hand, they're already food, toys, and working materials for 90% of the supernatural world.

Being associated with someone string could be as much or more protection than anonymity. At the very least they'd gain some small measure of an ability to actually fight back, rather than dying immediately after something gets hungry in their neighborhood.

Doing it properly would cost AP, but we'd get contacts and resources that are valuable to us right now. Just the training to get started on a wide set of skills would be nice even if they can't take us further than that.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Or that's my view of it anyway.
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As a whole, the doggo isn't as threatening as I initially thought because its statline kind of meh. It also isn't flat +3 on everything, but +3 on rolls made against the doggo, which also reduces the spectrum of things its enemies suddenly super terrible at.

That said, it is still sort of dangerous as a precedent. Messing with difficulty in general is powerful. Setting up difficulty to 9 is very powerful. Theoretical 20 dice enemy - i.e. a Celestial Exalt running an excellency - has issues producing more than 3-4 sux on a roll when difficulty is 9, and often produces zero sux or outright botches.

Shadow Spite Signature does something like this, and it is probably the strongest, most mechanically "optimal" signature charm in the book.
mastigos said:
Mind you it's threefold their intent so it will actually be pretty proportional
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Yeah, that's why "oh well" instead of [internal screaming].
 
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FriedIce said:
[] No, do not join the Order of the Cauldron


These people, whilst nice and well intentioned, are simply in a different weight class to us. All joining the Order of the Cauldron will do is consume AP and drag these minor practitioners into fights they have no business being in. And they will be dragged in, simply by being in a organisation with us.

Better to remain independent, for their safety if nothing else.
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They now hold a place of power. They are safe while in it, but holding it brings attention.

Also, they could be useful if trained up. Our training charm is sh*t, to be honest, but even outside of it, we could still train them up. Helen at least should have a lot of experience handling large quantities of money. That alone should be worth getting her as a minion (and let's be honest, this is essentially "do we get these people as minions" vote, with some intermediary steps).

This also helps Rosie, giving her peers in magic to interact with. I suspect that she and Helen would hit it off. Helen destroyed her life much more thoroughly than Rosie did, and is rebuilding it, and Rosie might work as a daughter substitute for Helen, at least a bit.

They are not much, but they can be more. Even if we are not a solar.
 
Yog said:
[X] Yes, join the Order of the Cauldron
-[X] As an associated member? Explain how various obligations might keep both of you from the meetings at times.
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That goes without saying. After all alot of the members didn't show up today. They aren't a military unit.

[X] Yes, join the Order of the Cauldron
 
Like, I dunno. We already contacted these guys, and performed a - comparatively, for this day and age - major working with them. Lydia also might join regardless of Molly, too.

Would stepping back make things safer for these people, at this point? Looks like we already left a pretty noticeable trace of Infernal Shenanigans on them, that other supernatural being could notice. Feels like we are just leaving them alone after creating trouble.
Yog said:
Also, they could be useful if trained up. Our training charm is sh*t, to be honest
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When DP allows custom charms, we could either try to unlock SBS charmset or make a custom Wicked City charm that allows Path training. Rn we are kind of in awkward spot, tho.
 
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Yog said:
Also, they could be useful if trained up. Our training charm is sh*t, to be honest, but even outside of it, we could still train them up.
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It isn't so bad in quality of life terms. The biggest restriction it imposes if we aren't trying to be mean is a dress code.

Also the first week makes them count as creatures of darkness. However, I don't know if anything else in setting interacts with that tag so it might not be so bad. Although them being COD would mean that Molly is defacto leader of the order thanks to Demonic Primacy of Essence.
 
fictionfan said:
It isn't so bad in quality of life terms. The biggest restriction it imposes if we aren't trying to be mean is a dress code.
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Chirality Prohibition could turn a bunch of mortals into pretty decent mooks over a course of a month, which is... okay? Better if used on Fomori?

But Legendary Scholar Cirriculum could give the same bunch of mortals Alchemy 4 or Fortune 4, which is enough to turn a minor coven into a genuine nightmare on a battlefield or tool of great utility outside of it.

Various unwanted side-effects is only half of why the only core Infernal training charm isn't super great.
 
Prospalz said:
Chirality Prohibition could turn a bunch of mortals into pretty decent mooks over a course of a month, which is... okay? Better if used on Fomori?

But Legendary Scholar Cirriculum could give the same bunch of mortals Alchemy 4 or Fortune 4, which is enough to turn a minor coven into a genuine nightmare on a battlefield or tool of great utility outside of it.

Various unwanted side-effects is only half of why Infernal training charm isn't super great.
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In this quest I avoid comparing any of our charms with Solars and just look at them for their own merits. It doesn't matter if Solars are better if there aren't any Solars in setting.
 
The various Order members are prime minion recruitment material once we learn VEE. They're a continuously preyed upon minority within the supernatural community, generally with just enough power to be attractive targets without having enough to properly defend themselves. IIRC, there are multiple potential merits we can grant them that would include a significant boost in magical power? From there, they would just need practice and/or instruction to become accustomed to no longer being on the bottom rung of the ladder.

These are all people who already have established identities, homes, families, careers, contacts, etc., without much in the way of baggage like significant criminal records or unfortunate ties to the seedier side of the supernatural community.
 
Prospalz said:
It isn't about Solars, for once. It is about just getting the Path-teaching charm once custom stuff is allowed. SBS charmset has it.
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How I would homebrew it would be that we get Chirality Prohibition and then expand what it can do when people train inside our Kingdom. Have a deadicated training ground in there with deadicated trainers. Might even make it so it isn't limited by Molly's skill level.
 
Prospalz said:
It isn't about Solars, for once. It is about just getting the Path-teaching charm once custom stuff is allowed. SBS charmset has it.
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We'd have to learn those Paths ourselves first, though. Still that would be good. Raising Occult to 5 with a single course of training might be a good idea. They all should have it at 1, so it'll be 20 XP (I think) for Occult 5, leaving 10 XP for alertness. Might be worth it. We could discuss what concept to despise should be chosen beforehand.
 
fictionfan said:
How I would homebrew it would be that we get Chirality Prohibition and then expand what it can do when people train inside our Kingdom. Have a dedicated training ground in there with dedicated trainers. Might even make it so it isn't limited by Molly's skill level.
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The side effects of Chirality Prohibition make it a problematic charm all on its own. The in-story ramifications of brainwashing people is incredibly problematic to manage before people start turning into CoDs.

At least One Hundred Devil Disciples outright gives people super-powers. :V
Goldfish said:
IIRC, there are multiple potential merits we can grant them that would include a significant boost in magical power?
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Nothing that would instantly significantly elevate them, but over a period of months-years, yeah, sure. Path Natural merit. Rosie probably going to end up with with Oneiromancy-focused version of that if she ever gets a proper charsheet.

I don't quite remember if VEE could be finagled into providing them with a bigger mana pool, but that would be a strong option with more immediate relevance. Otherwise, non-direct stuff like backgrounds and resources actually might be better than providing merits to otherwise unremarkable practitioners.
 
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Prospalz said:
Chirality Prohibition could turn a bunch of mortals into pretty decent mooks over a course of a month, which is... okay? Better if used on Fomori?

But Legendary Scholar Cirriculum could give the same bunch of mortals Alchemy 4 or Fortune 4, which is enough to turn a minor coven into a genuine nightmare on a battlefield or tool of great utility outside of it.

Various unwanted side-effects is only half of why the only core Infernal training charm isn't super great.
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Even teaching Charms can only teach people what we already know.
Since we don't have Hedge Magic yet, it makes no difference.
 
BronzeTongue said:
On the other hand, they're already food, toys, and working materials for 90% of the supernatural world.
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Yes, they are, and their best defence is obscurity, followed by not being worth the effort.

None of these people would be anything less than canon fodder when faced by a Faerie Lady or a Black Court Vampire. And we are not yet powerful enough to protect them.

We generate attention like nobody else and so joining the organisation will do nothing but bring them harm in the long run.

Better to remain independent, but able to be called on if needed.
 
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Ackchually , @DragonParadox

Does SBS charmset looks like something you would be fine with once we are finally allowed custom charms? As a specific charmset and as a general example of the sort of charms you prolly going to see once the gates are opened.
FriedIce said:
Yes, they are, and their best defence is obscurity, followed by not being worth the effort.
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Are we sure we didn't just nuke their obscurity into nothing by performing 30 sux 3 essence ritual in the middle of a huge city?
 
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Pass-the-Buck Sutemi (••) is very funny in Molly's case since she is in fact very religious and is part of the catholic church which the white god is officially the head of even if he doesn't seem to get involved in the day to day affairs. So if Molly used this charm the white god starts detecting as the king of hell.

Also it isn't fair to ask DP to make judgements about possible future rulings well ahead of time. It is mostly likely to just confuse the issue in the future.
 
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