Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I am not necessarily opposed to learning a bit of traditional magic, but if we do I would prefer it to be limited to a single path. There is way too much stuff to spend XP on already, and I don't want to divide our attention or resources between trying to gobble up all the magic.
 
Sort of the point that is mortal stuff for mortals. We are exalted, if we do things as a exalted we will be a thousand times better off.

Not really, Exalted charms are very focused on what they do, particularly Infernal ones. Sorcery paths also scale with superhuman ability, they synergise much better with dice adder charms and the like than most other infernal charms.

I am not necessarily opposed to learning a bit of traditional magic, but if we do I would prefer it to be limited to a single path. There is way too much stuff to spend XP on already, and I don't want to divide our attention or resources between trying to gobble up all the magic.

By contrast, if you look at what we can do, we're better off getting three dots in multiple paths to cover a whole range of capabilities that are hard to access.

Particularly with a teacher discount on xp.
 
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I am not necessarily opposed to learning a bit of traditional magic, but if we do I would prefer it to be limited to a single path. There is way too much stuff to spend XP on already, and I don't want to divide our attention or resources between trying to gobble up all the magic.
Yeah. A few of the more flexible paths can cover the space of more specialized ones anyway.

Alchemy with maybe a dip into fortune would give us plenty of buff and utility capability, getting stuff like healing would be superfluous.
 
The various Sorcery Paths look interesting and potentially useful, but finding a teacher both able and willing to educate us in one or more of the paths we're interested in seems like a pretty daunting task. Harry is available, I guess, though we aren't his apprentice and, despite his power and skill, doesn't seem to practice much of the more interesting types of magic we might want to learn.
Not particularly.
Bob almost certainly qualifies for everything on that list that isnt necromancy.
Six hundred plus years of working with wizards counts for a lot.
 
The various Sorcery Paths look interesting and potentially useful, but finding a teacher both able and willing to educate us in one or more of the paths we're interested in seems like a pretty daunting task. Harry is available, I guess, though we aren't his apprentice and, despite his power and skill, doesn't seem to practice much of the more interesting types of magic we might want to learn.

I'm not sure how learning works in the system we're using. If we manage to find a teacher for a path, Healing for example, would getting enough instruction to purchase one dot in the path be enough for us to continue learning it on our own through self-study and experimentation, or do we have to purchase/learn two or three dots into the path before we reach that point? Does the teacher need to have a certain number of dots in that path before they can teach others?

If instructors only need a dot or two in a path to be able to teach us, and we only need to gain a single dot before using Exalted BS and XP to bull ahead on our own, we might be able to find relatively minor talents who aren't White Council material but skilled enough in their specialty that they can fulfill our needs. Could make for an interesting gap year before we start college (if we go at all), taking a road trip across the country to find magic tutors. Maybe fighting some evil on the side bonus XP as we go.
Given the "Heir of Brigit" and "demonic mentor" backgrounds, I think it's fair to say that we can learn the sorcery powers ex-nihilo, roleplayed as either remembering from the dreams of past life, Usum remembering stuff, or us observing things and working out how to emulate stuff like Michael's good fortune via magic instinctually.

We're astonishingly better at sorcery than anyone else would be.

Sorcery in our hands is probably orders of magnitude better than in anyone else's.

The combination of our dice adders, difficulty reducers, and craft charm means we can do things with sorcery no one but another celestial exalt can.
Indeed. We are pretty heavily specked towards doing magic of some kind, given occult 5, demonic mentor, intelligence 4, heir of Brigit. Yet right now we aren't actually doing much with that. We didn't have time yet. And ancient sorcery is actually more limited, more rigid than what we might want to do. We need some sort of system that would allow us to apply our occult talents. Sorcery paths seem like a good way to do this.
I am not necessarily opposed to learning a bit of traditional magic, but if we do I would prefer it to be limited to a single path. There is way too much stuff to spend XP on already, and I don't want to divide our attention or resources between trying to gobble up all the magic.
I think that we would want Fortune, as an addition / extension of various difficulty reducers / increasers and dice adders / removers we got going, and we either want the 5 dot wonder crafting charm (which would need to be tweaked, I think, to stand on par with the paths, as is logical that it should have more oomph), or alchemy / herbalism / enchantment. For one, I am very interesting in various forms of body enchantment and super soldier formula type serums.
 
Given the "Heir of Brigit" and "demonic mentor" backgrounds, I think it's fair to say that we can learn the sorcery powers ex-nihilo, roleplayed as either remembering from the dreams of past life, Usum remembering stuff, or us observing things and working out how to emulate stuff like Michael's good fortune via magic instinctually.
That is explicitly for Ancient Sorcery.

We can easily learn to use our innate mastery of Essence for great spells from ages past.
We can't automatically learn "modern" Sorcery.
 
Not really, Exalted charms are very focused on what they do, particularly Infernal ones. Sorcery paths also scale with superhuman ability, they synergise much better with dice adder charms and the like than most other infernal charms.
Basically everything a path can do can be done better by a charm. The whole point of paths is they do one thing, and are for mortals, with mortal level of power. Charms are for exalted and have exalted level of powers.
I think that we would want Fortune, as an addition / extension of various difficulty reducers / increasers and dice adders / removers we got going, and we either want the 5 dot wonder crafting charm (which would need to be tweaked, I think, to stand on par with the paths, as is logical that it should have more oomph), or alchemy / herbalism / enchantment. For one, I am very interesting in various forms of body enchantment and super soldier formula type serums.
Fortune is rendered usless by Inauspicious Benediction of Endeavor, which can grant automatic success to everything from +2 to +4 to every roll. Alchemy and enchantment together are only as good as the, Craft charm itself which is not much, this is crafting supplement system.

Frankly for just 60xp we can get basically all the paths at once. Use splintered gale incarnation to make a Molly clone to study and learn a path. Use VEE to Buff their path knowledge. Since clones are unique, unless we specifically remake them they count as different targets for VEE, by continually making new clones, upping their knowlege with VEE and absorbing them we can get 6dots in all paths for Molly clones given a few hours. Then when the mortal Molly's have 6dots in all paths, buff them with Inauspicious Benediction of Endeavor at the +4 success to every roll level.
 
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As far as minimal investment/maximum impact goes, Healing 1 fully substitutes for Nightmare Fugue Vigilance without nasty side-effects.

Would do wonders to our strategic action economy.

Everything else is variable, but I see more difficulty adjusters in low dots of Fortune, crafting paths and Sorcerous Merits, and chase of sub-3 difficulty rolls/auto-successes is ever fun.
Inauspicious Benediction of Endeavor
Give me the page, I can't CTRL+F it in ExWoD revised.
 
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Basically everything a path can do can be done better by a charm. The whole point of paths is they do one thing, and are for mortals, with mortal level of power. Charms are for exalted and have exalted level of powers.

The Infernal charm set is deliberately awkward and made not to be straightforward; like the sidereal one, or gives you a bunch of peculiar tools that aren't directly generally applicable to encourage you to manufacture thematically appropriate situations to use them in.

Sorcery paths fill the gaps that leaves behind.

And sorcery is much more like an extra Ability given the way it combos with dice adders and difficulty reducers. Saying that we should only get charms is like saying we shouldn't be able to sword fight skilfully , we should use charms for that instead. They're, at core, additional ways of using our exalted charms, more ways we can use our dice adders and difficulty reducers.

Solar charms can cleanly do most things that paths do. Infernal charms can't, and that's deliberate.

I post it here #6,413 It is the only infernal buracracy booster charm.

It's not an ExWoD charm though. Deliberately, I think, as it doesn't fit the intended Infernal playstyle.
 
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I post it here #6,413 It is the only infernal buracracy booster charm.
Thank you. Homebrew 2nd edition port? That's no good rn, we got an embargo on non-core charms. Btw, you mentioned Legendary Magic Aptitude merit some pages ago, can't find that either; if you could point that one out too, that would be grand.

That said, in ExWoD things stack, so +stuff/dice/difficulty magics rarely make each other irrelevant.
 
Still though.
Charms and skills/attributes.
Martial Arts.
Ancient Sorcery.

We have several big fields to invest in, the latter something we and only we can easily get with our Heir of Bridgit Advantage.

I just don't want to spread the gains even thinner beyond that.
 
Thank you. Homebrew 2nd edition port? That's no good rn, we got an embargo on non-core charms. Btw, you mentioned Legendary Magic Aptitude merit some pages ago, can't find that either; if you could point that one out too, that would be grand.

That said, in ExWoD things stack, so +stuff/dice/difficulty magics rarely make each other irrelevant.
That a canon charm form Ink monkey. #6,521 GM shows what VEE can grant.
 
I doubt Harry is going to want let us have much Bob time.
To the contrary.

Bob is a much more controllable, safer resource than having Molly out there looking for alternative tutors.
And Molly's performance wth the Principle of Consumption probably goes a long way to convincing him that he'd probably be a lot more comfortable not having her do self-study. Or calling up spirits and terrifying them into teaching her.

Not to mention that Lydia has Arawn's Library as a Background.
And given how Lydia managed to stumble into giving Corpstaker timeshare authority on her body based on the information, Dresden is going to be happier not having us using that as a primary resource.

Its hilarious that Bob is the responsible choice.
I post it here #6,413 It is the only infernal buracracy booster charm.
Literally homebrew.
Sure its homebrew based on an Ex2 charm, but its still homebrew for ExWoD.
 
I just don't want to spread the gains even thinner beyond that.
We are getting XP at a pretty crazy pace. Low priority now, good purchase in 3-4 arcs.

...Also, NGL I am kind of unimpressed with ancient sorcery, wonders of Counter Magic aside.
Clones explicitly can't do any magic and are fully mundane.
They start that way. But we can Fomori them, or teach Linear magic. IIRC.
It's almost a shame Corpsetaker was caught, as otherwise we could call her up and bind her to teach Molly.
The level of internal and external screaming - followed by a stern talk from Michael - would be very impressive.

No, Bob is enough. Harry is stingy with access, but it is a workable problem as we keep proving ourselves and keep hitting him with superhuman socials. We already have a positive precedent on our side.
 
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Clones explicitly can't do any magic and are fully mundane.
The clones are the mortal version of Molly. And by GM can learn Paths, and MA. But that knowledge does nothing for Exalted Molly, and Exalted Molly learning them does nothing for the clones. They essentially have a separate XP track for the mortal way of doing things.

And technically Paths are a knowledge skill, not a supernatural power so granting them knowledge by VEE is ok.
 
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Clones explicitly can't do any magic and are fully mundane.
They cant perform magic. That doesnt mean they cant learn the theory.
A Molly clone would still have Int 4, Occult 5.
They start that way. But we can Fomori them, or teach Linear magic. IIRC.
They cant do linear magic though.
And I dont know if I'd be comfortable making fomor of a clone.
However, giving them enchanted stuff or alchemy potions remains on the table.
 
We are getting XP at a pretty crazy pace. Low priority now, good purchase in 3-4 arcs.
...Also, NGL I am kind of not super unimpressed with ancient sorcery, wonders of Counter Magic aside.
^^^
The good Sorcery spells are mostly untransferred.
Holden gave us Bone Lion instead of Hound of the Five Winds, which is mechanically identical but much less gruesome fluffwise.
And left out most of the good utility spells like Dragon of Smoke and Fire and Infallible Messenger.
 
It's almost a shame Corpsetaker was caught, as otherwise we could call her up and bind her to teach Molly.
The level of internal and external screaming - followed by a stern talk from Michael - would be very impressive.
That a canon charm form Ink monkey. #6,521 GM shows what VEE can grant.
Sphere natural, not aptitude. But thank you, that's a great merit, although it is for Spheres, not paths... Eh, path equivalent should be easily possible. Would be lower-ranked, even.

Actually, getting it ourselves would be really good too, given that Infernal enjoy reduced prices on Linear magic to begin with.
They cant perform magic. That doesnt mean they cant learn the theory.
I rely on this wog -
No, as the clone specifies that they do not get any supernatural powers, Sorcery path is supernatural. Now mind the clone could specifically try to learn magic on her own, but she would have to do it by other means because trying to imitate an Exalted without their advantages is not safe to say the least
They are capable of learning Linear Magic, they just inherit absolutely no supernatural skills whatsoever from Molly. Altho I might be reading it wrong, IDK. @DragonParadox tell me if I read this wrong, please.
 
They are capable of learning Linear Magic, they just inherit absolutely no supernatural skills whatsoever from Molly. Altho I might be reading it wrong, IDK. @DragonParadox tell me if I read this wrong, please.

That is in fact how that works, though you would have to make a long term clone for that which would have to learn and grow from the moment you fork her

Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 3, 2022 at 9:11 AM, finished with 113 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Close up for the night
    -[X]Thank Rose. Promise to talk to Dresden by phone next day. Admit to being in Cleveland for the next few weeks with family and if theres any contacts in the Cleveland area she would recommend
    -[X]Send a DM(devil message) to Mouse via Burny(Clippy to Burny) to give Dresden and Bob a name and description of the Pathfinders and request any information they can provide on them and Don Phillipe de Leon. Plus any supernatural contact in Cleveland Dresden would recommend.
    -[X]Research: Cyberdevils (while Molly is asleep. 8 hours.)
    --[X]Check for Finnish-American ancestry among list of Soul's Rest residents and staff, and Dreamless Rest subjects. 4 hours.
    --[X]Look for any recent resident deaths, staff hirings or firings at Souls Rest and their contact info; we already got access to their computer system. 2 hours
    --[X]Look for signs of Red Court infiltration of the Cleveland PD. Start with Le Blanc's phone, emails and call/contact history; we have phone access. 2 hours.
    -[X]Write in suggestions for what to do tomorrow (Optional):
    --[X]Check burner email
    --[X]Phone calls and/or visit to family or grave of any recently dead resident for Lydia to take a look.
    --[X]Tour of the facility as friends doing a favor for a Finnish-American family.
    --[X]Track down any Soul's staff that recently quit or were fired.
    --[X]Look for the local supernatural hangouts
 
^^^
The good Sorcery spells are mostly untransferred.
Holden gave us Bone Lion instead of Hound of the Five Winds, which is mechanically identical but much less gruesome fluffwise.
And left out most of the good utility spells like Dragon of Smoke and Fire and Infallible Messenger.
He did say that gm and players can adapt other spells, as long as it stays on the same general power level.
 
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