Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Sudden thought just occurred to me:

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)Would a Molly clone using the Splintered Gale charm be able to use any Sorcery Paths we know?

No, as the clone specifies that they do not get any supernatural powers, Sorcery path is supernatural. Now mind the clone could specifically try to learn magic on her own, but she would have to do it by other means because trying to imitate an Exalted without their advantages is not safe to say the least

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 4, 2022 at 4:50 AM, finished with 168 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Advance on the submarine together
    -[X]Interrupt ritual, retrieve Mathews for interrogation, and secure bone knife
    -[X]STUNT:Holy Mary, Mother of God, be with us sinners now. "Harry, get the guns. We'll get Mathews" you bark as you dart towards the old man, Lydia on your heels. "Stop that. We've rescued Cindy, and her pretty blue shoes" you snap as you reach him, disarming the startled old man of his bone knife and making it disappear somewhere on your person. Eying the malevolent blue searchlight, you continue."Can you run, or will we have to carry you?"
    [X] Race to the sub with Lydia, let Harry and Gard deal with the old man
    -[X] (Stunt) The water seems to try and keep your feet in it, pushing against you heavier than natural, so you simply avoid it with a jump onto the long rows of tables and cases holding more exhibits. As you close in on the boat your blade stands ready to carve the next, and last, shot to pieces before you reach the guns. The silver glow in the corner of your eyes tells you Lydia is as ready as you are for this.
    [X] Advance on the submarine together -[X]Interrupt ritual, retrieve Mathews for interrogation, and secure bone knife -[X]STUNT:Holy Mary, Mother of God, be with us sinners now. "Harry, get the guns. We'll get Mathews" you bark as you dart towards the old man, Lydia on your heels. "Stop that. We've rescued Cindy, and her pretty blue shoes" you snap as you reach him, disarming the startled old man of his bone knife and making it disappear somewhere on your person. Eying the malevolent blue searchlight, you continue."Can you run, or will we have to carry you?"
 
No, as the clone specifies that they do not get any supernatural powers, Sorcery path is supernatural. Now mind the clone could specifically try to learn magic on her own, but she would have to do it by other means because trying to imitate an Exalted without their advantages is not safe to say the least

I have to admit that the Infernal training charm being so much less good than the solar one is something that doesn't make sense to me.

Devils teaching witches their magic is an absolute staple of beliefs about witchcraft, so very on-brand for Infernals.
 
I have to admit that the Infernal training charm being so much less good than the solar one is something that doesn't make sense to me.

Devils teaching witches their magic is an absolute staple of beliefs about witchcraft, so very on-brand for Infernals.
Devils grant magic powers to witches, not hold a general educational curriculum. VEE being able to grant Merits is arguably better than Solar training in its own way.
 
Devils grant magic powers to witches, not hold a general educational curriculum. VEE being able to grant Merits is arguably better than Solar training in its own way.

Amusingly, the devil does legendarily teach a general magical curriculum in the stories of the Scholomance.

VEE's granting of merits doesn't really approach what a solar can do with You Can Be More (as sorcerers that awaken convert their dots in paths into spheres) supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and what an Abyssal Can do with Apocalyptic Corpse Graft Technique and/or Vessel of the First Curse.
 
Amusingly, the devil does legendarily teach a general magical curriculum in the stories of the Scholomance.

VEE's granting of merits doesn't really approach what a solar can do with You Can Be More (as sorcerers that awaken convert their dots in paths into spheres) supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and what an Abyssal Can do with Apocalyptic Corpse Graft Technique and/or Vessel of the First Curse.
Making Formori, together with VEE, does match some of those tricks though.
 
Devils grant magic powers to witches, not hold a general educational curriculum. VEE being able to grant Merits is arguably better than Solar training in its own way.
There's also all the charms for making people into Bakemono. I don't think Solars have anything like that, so all their minion power is in training.

It's just that if we don't want to do something that nasty to get minions it kind of makes it complicated to reach parity.

Clones don't feel like the answer to me though. It introduces all sorts of complications with the society we live in and Molly's social connections to be worth the trouble, even if we ignore the squick of it - which we really shouldn't.

It'd be less complicated and more efficient to use our various advantages to vet people who already exist for trustworthiness and use them in the roles the clones would fill. The only real loss would be the chest bursting reincarnation thing, but that's a consideration that can wait till much later.

Resources spent on a resurrection scheme are ones diverted from efforts that would stop us from needing it.
Amusingly, the devil does legendarily teach a general magical curriculum in the stories of the Scholomance.

VEE's granting of merits doesn't really approach what a solar can do with You Can Be More (as sorcerers that awaken convert their dots in paths into spheres) supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and what an Abyssal Can do with Apocalyptic Corpse Graft Technique and/or Vessel of the First Curse.
True enough, but I'd point out that those are all folklore from the Christian end of things. Exalted in general and ExWoD infernals in particular don't seem to take much from that area. There are some elements, but the dominant themes aren't based in it.
 
Making Formori, together with VEE, does match some of those tricks though.

Not really, both because fomor are pretty shit, and because supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and apocalyptic Corpse Grafting Technique can be used to grant selected physical fomor powers whereas an Infernal doesn't get to pick what powers a fomor they create has. A sorcerer turned mage physically upgraded with Wholeness Restoring Meditation is a beast.
 
Not really, both because fomor are pretty shit, and because supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and apocalyptic Corpse Grafting Technique can be used to grant selected physical fomor powers whereas an Infernal doesn't get to pick what powers a fomor they create has. A sorcerer turned mage physically upgraded with Wholeness Restoring Meditation is a beast.
Okay.
But you are forgetting our one really big minion Charm.
The 1001st Hell

I admit that making Bakemono is worse than making Vampires or Mages, but having an entire civilisation that starts out loyal to us kinda balances things out.
 
Amusingly, the devil does legendarily teach a general magical curriculum in the stories of the Scholomance.

VEE's granting of merits doesn't really approach what a solar can do with You Can Be More (as sorcerers that awaken convert their dots in paths into spheres) supernal Wholeness Restoring Meditation and what an Abyssal Can do with Apocalyptic Corpse Graft Technique and/or Vessel of the First Curse.
I would argue that the fluff / lore of "Latter-Day Devil Implant" conflicts with mechanics. Lore says:
The Infernal may wed flesh and technology in a triumph of hellish craftsmanship, replacing maimed or missing body parts (or, why not, perfectly healthy ones) with mechanical grafts cobbled together from whatever odds and ends the Demon Prince finds laying around. These grafts may be in any style the Infernal sees fit, from carefully-crafted prostheses that mimic the human form, to crude armatures of rusty pipe and sparking, exposed wires, to heavy assemblies terminating in tools or weapons rather than humanlike appendages.
Rules say:
System: The Infernal spends several hours grafting an implant onto her patient (or victim, depending on who you ask), then her player spends 2 Essence and rolls Intelligence + (Crafts or Technology) against difficulty 8. Success mounts the implant after 24 hours of acclimation. If the patient is mortal, then the joining process also attracts a minor wicked spirit, which acts as part of the cement bonding the implant to its host and transforming him into a bakemono – a sort of monster that shapeshifters know as fomori. Rules for fomori can be found on pages 428-439 of W20.
If the mortal subjected to the charm transformed into fomori a normal way, with disfigurement and derangement, the charm would be completely useless, as it wouldn't be able to function as a healing / prosthetics granting one. Since charms aren't meant to be useless, I would argue that in this case it's likely we get to make people into transhuman cybernetic devils without obvious downsides.
 
No, as the clone specifies that they do not get any supernatural powers, Sorcery path is supernatural. Now mind the clone could specifically try to learn magic on her own, but she would have to do it by other means because trying to imitate an Exalted without their advantages is not safe to say the least

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 4, 2022 at 4:50 AM, finished with 168 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Advance on the submarine together
    -[X]Interrupt ritual, retrieve Mathews for interrogation, and secure bone knife
    -[X]STUNT:Holy Mary, Mother of God, be with us sinners now. "Harry, get the guns. We'll get Mathews" you bark as you dart towards the old man, Lydia on your heels. "Stop that. We've rescued Cindy, and her pretty blue shoes" you snap as you reach him, disarming the startled old man of his bone knife and making it disappear somewhere on your person. Eying the malevolent blue searchlight, you continue."Can you run, or will we have to carry you?"
    [X] Race to the sub with Lydia, let Harry and Gard deal with the old man
    -[X] (Stunt) The water seems to try and keep your feet in it, pushing against you heavier than natural, so you simply avoid it with a jump onto the long rows of tables and cases holding more exhibits. As you close in on the boat your blade stands ready to carve the next, and last, shot to pieces before you reach the guns. The silver glow in the corner of your eyes tells you Lydia is as ready as you are for this.
    [X] Advance on the submarine together -[X]Interrupt ritual, retrieve Mathews for interrogation, and secure bone knife -[X]STUNT:Holy Mary, Mother of God, be with us sinners now. "Harry, get the guns. We'll get Mathews" you bark as you dart towards the old man, Lydia on your heels. "Stop that. We've rescued Cindy, and her pretty blue shoes" you snap as you reach him, disarming the startled old man of his bone knife and making it disappear somewhere on your person. Eying the malevolent blue searchlight, you continue."Can you run, or will we have to carry you?"
They're temporary clones. No real time to learn anything in between Molly reabsorbing them every week and creating updated versions. But fair enough.
Summonable crafted items it is.
I have to admit that the Infernal training charm being so much less good than the solar one is something that doesn't make sense to me. Devils teaching witches their magic is an absolute staple of beliefs about witchcraft, so very on-brand for Infernals.
There's a better training charm in the Dark Ages part of the book.
One that doesnt automatically turn everyone into a fomori or creature of darkness.

Also, sorcery and crafting. Path Alchemy explicitly benchmarks its capstone effects as including immortality(requires maintenance), potions to cause an Awakening, turn a human into a Vampire without a sire, turn a human into a true werewolf etc.
Gonna need the right reagents, but backhacking your way via Exalted Crafting should be entirely on the table.

There's also all the charms for making people into Bakemono. I don't think Solars have anything like that, so all their minion power is in training.

It's just that if we don't want to do something that nasty to get minions it kind of makes it complicated to reach parity.

Clones don't feel like the answer to me though. It introduces all sorts of complications with the society we live in and Molly's social connections to be worth the trouble, even if we ignore the squick of it - which we really shouldn't.

It'd be less complicated and more efficient to use our various advantages to vet people who already exist for trustworthiness and use them in the roles the clones would fill. The only real loss would be the chest bursting reincarnation thing, but that's a consideration that can wait till much later.

Resources spent on a resurrection scheme are ones diverted from efforts that would stop us from needing it.

True enough, but I'd point out that those are all folklore from the Christian end of things. Exalted in general and ExWoD infernals in particular don't seem to take much from that area. There are some elements, but the dominant themes aren't based in it.
1)Parity is just an Essence level and a 5 dot charm away.
As soon as you have a populated Hell, you have a bunch of minions if you want.
The more so if you pick the right features.

2)Clones are basically proxies for yourself, that will make the same decisions you will.
We have a limited number, limited by Essence level; we deploy them strategically.

There's no real complication introduced that isnt handled with a bottle of hair dye, colored contacts, some makeup and a Crafted item. And the ability to play shell games, or to send a clone to Uni while we bugger off somewhere else to handle supernatural stuff is not to be underestimated.

3)No I dont agree with that resurrection comment.
Its possible to overdo it, but having backups in the event of death is like buying life insurance. You'll always consider it a waste of money you could spend on other stuff until you need it.

Solars, Infernals and Alchemicals all have resurrection abilities in ExWoD. Cant remember Sidereals or Lunars.
Holden apparently expects PCs to blunder their way into death a time or too
 
Also, sorcery and crafting. Path Alchemy explicitly benchmarks its capstone effects as including immortality(requires maintenance), potions to cause an Awakening, turn a human into a Vampire without a sire, turn a human into a true werewolf etc.
Gonna need the right reagents, but backhacking your way via Exalted Crafting should be entirely on the table.

M20 Sorcery doesn't any more, sadly.
 
Also, sorcery and crafting. Path Alchemy explicitly benchmarks its capstone effects as including immortality(requires maintenance), potions to cause an Awakening, turn a human into a Vampire without a sire, turn a human into a true werewolf etc.
Gonna need the right reagents, but backhacking your way via Exalted Crafting should be entirely on the table.
It does not it even call out that true changes are beyond a mere 5 dot effect. Even the sample 5 dot stuff is strictly temp boosters.

We would need 6 dots to start really getting the epic stuff in paths. As an Exalted that is no issue save for the XP but 6 dots in a path is 49 XP. Plus another 6 XP for a ritual, just making a Philosophers Stone is not really worth it
 
Honestly when it comes to the sorcery paths stuff. We are better off finding people that already have it, and hiring them with money, and exalted social prowess, and just VEE to greater highs. As Infernals are the only Exalted that can improve existing supernatural powers like that.
 
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The only real question is whether we are going to be making cultivation pills, or handing out magical nanotech injectors. Or both.
 
Arc 2 Post 50: Getting Ahead
Getting Ahead

22st of July 2006 A.D.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, be with us sinners now, the prayer runs through your mind in a flash of almost eerie clarity, the ringing in your ears faint and far away. "Harry, get the guns. We'll get Mathews" you bark as you dart towards the old man, Lydia on your heels.

"Fuego!"

Running towards the old man you already feel the scorching gust of magic at your back as the haunted decks are shrouded in a corona of flames not blue but gold and crimson as the heart of a forge.

"Stop that. We've rescued Cindy, and her pretty blue shoes"

The old man does not look up from his work, the dagger still descends, but then the arm that should have been slashed spasms and twitches back almost as if filled with a life of its own and alive indeed as the Kemlerities have tried to make Matthews the living dead. By mingled lights silver and green you see his eyes widen in sudden horror, realization and then at last resolve. He throws the knife away sending it clattering to the floor.

As you pull him away he jerks forward almost pulling you off balance.

"Lydia hold him! We need to get him to..." you never get as far as to say 'Harry' as sudden blinding pain fills your world. Ow.... my head, what the hell!

"What are you?" The absurdly calm question in the middle of the fight is almost more confusing then than the pain.

That is when you realize two things, first that the wet sticky stuff coming out of the side of your head is blood, secondly that you are surprisingly lucid for someone who has just been shot execution style and third that Katrina is better at this time nonsense to do more than slow others down, she can make herself faster.

You take 2 Wounds

To her credit Lydia does not shy away from the fight, or the fact that she is wearing some of your blood, she pivots left and slams her foot into Katrina's stomach. You catch a glimpse of her jacket shifting, growing like some cancerous thing studded with runecarved nails, but it does not seem to help as much as she might have hoped as she's sent reeling into one of the display cases.

Glass and model ship parts fly all around you as Matthews struggles to get to the knife he had just thrown away.

"Your worst nightmare!" you hiss the answer, unsure if it was your thought, Usum or someone else's, but even as your sword flies out in a burning arc to slay the fallen valkyrie you realize something is wrong... she's moving too fast, or are you moving too slow, it's hard to tell one from the other, but the weapon feels slow, clumsy in your hand.

It slides against the strange armor and does not pierce it.

Rising to her feet with uncanny grace, pistol still in hand "Many have said that girl, many have tried, all are dead and forgotten. You will join them." She does not scream or sneer, she sounds detached and below that chillingly almost... sad.

But as she looks beyond you recognition kindles in her narrowed gaze: "Gard...."

What she might have said to her once sister you to not know for in that moment you feel the silent thrum of Gard's ward pass over you, a knife that cuts apart the subtle skeins of magic. Katrina flinches back

"Must I do everything?" The voice spews out from Matthews' lips it is not him. The old man heaves and commits bitter grey mist that starts to pull together into the shape of a cowled figure you had seen once before, the Corpsetaker.

She is as solid as you are not in ragged garb of ectoplasm and in her incarnation she had banished the power of Gard;s runes, but she had shown herself, outside of dead shell or mortal hostage. This is probably the best chance you'll to send the dark spirit to its rightful fate. On the other hand Katrina is the one who had managed to shoot you in the head.

What do you do?

[] Focus on Katrina

[] Focus on Capricorpus

[] Write in


OOC: Katrina had one more ace up her sleeve than Gard knew, whether it is new or the Monoc people just did not know about it you are not sure, but it is clear she cannot pull off 'temporal invisibility' easily much less constantly. Also you not know how slow works, each success she gets on Int+Occult (Difficulty 7) halves your damage dice. It is a Temporis power from Dark Ages.
 
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Katrina used Headshot! 😱

It is not very effective... 😳

Whew, that's one way to learn the enemy has a bootleg personal Timestop spell.
 
[X] Focus on Katrina, she's dangerous but she can bleed, and we've got just the sword to prove it.
-[X] Leave Capricorpus for Gard. The spirit reacted with obvious fright when it first saw Gard through Lydia's eyes. Who better to deal with a recalcitrant ghost than a Chooser of the Slain?
 
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