Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

We abandoned Matthews to near certain death already.
Maybe not if we act fast enough now.

Saving his granddaughter is the necessary first step.

After that Katrin can propably still kill him, but he can defend himself by any means at his disposal, including a death curse. And that might make even a Valkyrie hesitate.
 
also I mean kemmler had knowledge to eat gods, the previous queens of fae did before being well fae, kemmlers disciples and cowl could reasonably do it if they had the book within a day of getting it. Like these are some heavy duty players so its not common knowledge by any means I'm sure its not beyond 5 dots though I'm unsure they mechanically can even go beyond 5 dots when their still pseudo mortals when they did it.
 
also I mean kemmler had knowledge to eat gods, the previous queens of fae did before being well fae, kemmlers disciples and cowl could reasonably do it if they had the book within a day of getting it. Like these are some heavy duty players so its not common knowledge by any means I'm sure its not beyond 5 dots though I'm unsure they mechanically can even go beyond 5 dots when their still pseudo mortals when they did it.
Even if you have a huge Occult score, you still meed to research or learn specific rituals.

That is the case for all WoD settings that have any form of rituals.
 
This justification is kind of stupid molly will not kill this man period. Also the occult thing I'm unsure this valkyrie can even go beyond 5 dots.

You guys know what charms are right and how they work and you explained at least part of that to Charity? Well that means Charity now technically knows some things that are beyond the ability of an occult 5 character to roll for. Occult is a measure of general not specific knowledge.
 
You guys know what charms are right and how they work and you explained at least part of that to Charity? Well that means Charity now technically knows some things that are beyond the ability of an occult 5 character to roll for. Occult is a measure of general not specific knowledge.
well yeah my argument is I don't see how that is beyond occult 5 as a skill.
 
well yeah my argument is I don't see how that is beyond occult 5 as a skill.

Because Ability 5 does not mean you know everything there is to know about a subject. I mean think about something like academics and how broad it is. Someone who is a world-famous physicist would be academics 5 with a specialization in physics, that does not mean he would he able to flawlessly answer 'academics questions' about obscure 10th century Frankish Literature.
 
Last edited:
Because Ability 5 does not mean you know everything there is to know about a subject. I mean think about something like academics and how broad it is. Someone who is a world-famous physicist would be academics 5 with a specialization in physics, that does not mean he would he able to flawlessly answer 'academics questions' about obscure 10th century Frankish Literature.
well yes again the argument is I don't see why this ritual would require something like occult 6 or higher to do.
 
I mean kemmler could do it, the fae queens could do it while mortal, some kemmlerites fresh off reading a book could do it.

I mean... Kemler and the Fey Queens are not what you would call 'simply max occult' and as for the Word of Kemler well we are back to Charity the occult expert. If someone clearly writes down a piece of information and you read it than you have it, same as if they had explained it to you.
 
I mean... Kemler and the Fey Queens are not what you would call 'simply max occult' and as for the Word of Kemler well we are back to Charity the occult expert. If someone clearly writes down a piece of information and you read it than you have it, same as if they had explained it to you.
So your saying beings without intellectus of some kind while mortal can have beyond 5 in a stat like occult? That every single kemmlerite that could pull the ritual off is beyond 5 occult or heck that dresden is? Cause dresden was damn sure he could pull off the ritual. That doesn't require beyond 5 occult.
 
So your saying beings without intellectus of some kind while mortal can have beyond 5 in a stat like occult? That every single kemmlerite that could pull the ritual off is beyond 5 occult or heck that dresden is? Cause dresden was damn sure he could pull off the ritual. That doesn't require beyond 5 occult.
No, he says that creating the ritual may take Occult knowledge beyond 5 dots, but once the ritual exists anyone who reads about and has the occult grounding and magical skill to understand it can use it.
 
No, he says that creating the ritual may take Occult knowledge beyond 5 dots, but once the ritual exists anyone who reads about and has the occult grounding and magical skill to understand it can use it.
thats more fair arguably kemmler probably based it off someone else though heck its not even known if the fae even created the original themselves. I'm unsure if kemmler was more skilled than a senior council member though definitely on their league and dangerous unsure he would have more than occult 5 though. Given he definitely could of I'm just not sure he did.
 
So your saying beings without intellectus of some kind while mortal can have beyond 5 in a stat like occult? That every single kemmlerite that could pull the ritual off is beyond 5 occult or heck that dresden is? Cause dresden was damn sure he could pull off the ritual. That doesn't require beyond 5 occult.

I am saying that there are pieces of information that are beyond the capacity of even world class occult experts to roll from background lore yes. If you guys had chosen to play an exalt with no occult lore and chosen I don't know Crown of Fire so no intelectus you would still know things beyond that level of background lore, namely how your charms work.

Dresden could only pull off the ritual after he was told how it worked by Bob or read it in the Word, I cannot remember which off the top of my head. Without that he would not have known and no about of studying to get base occult up would have changed that.
 
Last edited:
I am saying that there are pieces of information that are beyond the capacity of even world class occult experts ti roll from background lore yes. If you guys had chosen to play an exalt with no occult lore and chosen I don't know Crown of Fire so no intelectus you would still know things beyond that level of background lore, namely how your charms work.

Dresden could only pull off the ritual after he was told how it worked by Bob or read it in the Word, I cannot remember which off the top of my head. Without that he would not have known and no about of studying to get base occult up would have changed that.
offhand can we even get stats beyond 5 or is that strictly impossible? Probably Bob given the book wouldn't even be needed if they all knew about Bob.
 
thats more fair arguably kemmler probably based it off someone else though heck its not even known if the fae even created the original themselves. I'm unsure if kemmler was more skilled than a senior council member though definitely on their league and dangerous unsure he would have more than occult 5 though. Given he definitely could of I'm just not sure he did.

Kemler was so far out of the league of the Senior Council that he was only finally defeated by the intervention of the whole White Council... all of them after they had failed to kill him twice before. Kemler was an existential threat to the White Council as a whole.

offhand can we even get stats beyond 5 or is that strictly impossible? Probably Bob given the book wouldn't even be needed if they all knew about Bob.

I mean you already do, you have a specialization in Kakuri the Night Realm when it comes to occult from Usum which means you roll seven occult dice with regards to the realm of Emma-O.
 
Last edited:
Kemler was so far out of the league of the Senior Council that he was only finally defeated by the intervention of the whole White Council... all of them after they had failed to kill him twice before. Kemler was an existential threat to the White Council as a whole.
well yeah though fairly sure they did kill him more than once it just didn't stick since the guys specialty was bonkers and the guy was probably roided off dark magic like nobodies business. Also well not everyone actually beat him in direct combat there were a lot though even some senior council members aren't that good in actual combat like ancient mai not to say their defenseless they all have guards, their own secret skills/powers, and defenses of their own or gotten from contacts.
 
well yeah though fairly sure they did kill him more than once it just didn't stick since the guys specialty was bonkers and the guy was probably roided off dark magic like nobodies business. Also well not everyone actually beat him in direct combat there were a lot though even some senior council members aren't that good in actual combat like ancient mai not to say their defenseless they all have guards, their own secret skills/powers, and defenses of their own or gotten from contacts.

Everyone, or at least everyone who could come was involved in fighting him even if for some it was rituals and not throwing ecokation at him.
 
Okay, after a page of sidetracking, anyone want to vote to save a little girl?
Maybe with a follow-up of tagteaming a fallen Valkyrie with her mercenary sister?

I thought that kind of action would get more support on SV.
 
Everyone, or at least everyone who could come was involved in fighting him even if for some it was rituals and not throwing ecokation at him.
All the Wardens did, and the Senior Council, and several of the more responsible/combat-capable wizards who weren't either of the former (like Ebenezar, Klaus the Toymaker, and the Germans). But it wasn't literally the entire Council. Plenty of the wizards there have got precious little gift when it comes to actual combat magic–like Ancient Mai. Their strengths simply lie in other areas. Others . . . just aren't suited to it, mentally, and could probably prove to be more of a liability than an asset. Some of them are just plain chicken.

But it was a more sizeable chunk of the Council than had, at that point, ever been all together in one place to take on /one/ guy.

Guy was scary though note he also had plenty of minions and allies. Guy was one powerful fucking magic user.
 
Last edited:
So as a note, I noticed that we were getting close to 30 posts in the arc, and the QM said he was aiming for 30-40 posts an arc. So it looks like the big final battle this storyline is heading towards is probably going to be the end of Arc 2, with another XP spend (with a good portion of XP) before we do our Father-Daughter road-trip at the start of Arc 3.

Well, this is certainly fitting to be the big climax of the arc, and it will be nice to get a chance to spend XP before we go on our next mission, so this works out pretty well for me.
 
All the Wardens did, and the Senior Council, and several of the more responsible/combat-capable wizards who weren't either of the former (like Ebenezar, Klaus the Toymaker, and the Germans). But it wasn't literally the entire Council. Plenty of the wizards there have got precious little gift when it comes to actual combat magic–like Ancient Mai. Their strengths simply lie in other areas. Others . . . just aren't suited to it, mentally, and could probably prove to be more of a liability than an asset. Some of them are just plain chicken.

But it was a more sizeable chunk of the Council than had, at that point, ever been all together in one place to take on /one/ guy.

Guy was scary though note he also had plenty of minions and allies. Guy was one powerful fucking magic user.

Ah... another Butcher statement that makes dubious amounts of sense. Not the 'some were chicken and some were ill suited', that makes perfect sense but the 'Ancient Mai has precious little gift at combat' part. Sure that can be true by the standard of her peers but considering the kind of target being on the senior council paints on your back and the fact that as a diplomat she has to travel a lot so she cannot count on home defenses for everything she cannot actually be bad at it.
 
Ah... another Butcher statement that makes dubious amounts of sense. Not the 'some were chicken and some were ill suited', that makes perfect sense but the 'Ancient Mai has precious little gift at combat' part. Sure that can be true by the standard of her peers but considering the kind of target being on the senior council paints on your back and the fact that as a diplomat she has to travel a lot so she cannot count on home defenses for everything she cannot actually be bad at it.
for one she has guards like every senior council member, two being bad at magic combat doesn't mean she can't use a gun, thirdly pretty much everyone has specialties thats universal in dresden files and magic is very very personalized.

also by another do you mean the nature of angels and other universes existing doesn't make sense? Cause I'm fairly sure thats just a personal dislike on your part than a story flaw overall this one universe isn't important really other universes canonically exist heck the next book is at least partly about that.
 
Then, just as you pull in to the parking lot nearest to Saint Mary's Rider picks up the telltale signs of Katriana fiddling with her phone and while she is distracted Matthews asks. "So then will Capricorpus be joining in the Black Feast you have planned for the Eldest Ankou orto you just plan to use her for bait?"
There is no way Matthews didn't see our little helper.

He is subtly feeding us intel. Probably doesn't quite believe them to hold their end of the bargain. Smart.
 
Back
Top