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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Alectai said:
Crown of Eyes isn't intended to be used as a generic "What's going to happen next" button. If you think you've found a way to do that, that is an unpatched exploit, not intended behavior.

It's intended to get you better information, not replace the need for RPing, or removing all doubt about what's coming ahead.
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That's good and all, but that's not the part of your post I was replying to it.

It was the part I quoted about needing to ask about everyone individually.
 
Alectai said:
As I said earlier.

Crown of Eyes isn't intended to be used as a generic "What's going to happen next" button. If you think you've found a way to do that, that is an unpatched exploit, not intended behavior.

It's intended to get you better information, not replace the need for RPing, or removing all doubt about what's coming ahead. "Hey, what's going to happen next" should never be a valid use for Crown of Eyes, no matter how you word it.
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>.> I am not criticizing. But that is a very not exalted line of thinking. Though I can understand where your coming from.
Earth-Destroyer said:
And this is exactly why I didn't want the eyes. I fear the entire quest discussion will be plagued by trying to finagle it.
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Agree lightly with this sentiment? Its the first time weve been prompted on it though. So well see if it keeps coming up.
 
zxzx24 said:
Agree lightly with this sentiment? Its the first time weve been prompted on it though. So well see if it keeps coming up.
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I feel like finagling isn't going to be it's most dangerous aspect, but trying to not use it "just in case" we need it later, or the reverse of being unhappy with having used it.

Since it's absolutely once per event or object.

So we'll see how that turns out. It's very good at what it does, but the limitations that are needed to restrain it are also great.
 
zxzx24 said:
Damn you guys work fast. Semantics Aren't what I was asking after though.

Edit:
So @Alectai

Then to further clarify.

"What is the best thing we can do in this situation" is not a valid ask?

But "How do I best contain these prisoners" isn't really what the island does? It just have comprehensive knowledge it is able to use to put together the "best" way forward?
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It's not a valid ask for the same reason "What's going to happen next" isn't a valid ask. It involves trying to look into the future when many people involved have Free Will, so it'll either give you a snapshot of "What's the best next move you can make right now", which gets invalidated the moment someone else with Free Will decides to do something it didn't project.

Again, Crown of Eyes cannot be used to forecast an accurate future, no matter how you word your question, because that isn't in the Infernal toolkit, that is a Sidereal trick (And even they have mostly a 'I should do X for some reason and that'll best serve the interests of Fate', and Infernals aren't a "Do whatever I want with no limitations" character type.

It Can be used for things like (Target Lily) "What do you hope to accomplish here".

It Can be used for things like (Target the Situation) "What is the greatest obstacle barring my way out of here"

It Cannot be used for things like (Target the Situation) "What is the best thing I can do in this situation". Because it either has to be wrong, or the quest ends there because you can just always (Target Situation) "What's my best move", in which case the story is already over because you've won.

As I said earlier.

If you think you've found a way to turn Crown of Eyes into a Game Walkthrough, that is a bug, not intended use
 
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Will using the Crown of Eyes cause a visual display that will let everyone present know we just did something supernatural while asking them a question? That seems more relevant at the moment, at least to me, than what it can ask.
 
Valkhir said:
I feel like finagling isn't going to be it's most dangerous aspect, but trying to not use it "just in case" we need it later, or the reverse of being unhappy with having used it.

Since it's absolutely once per event or object.

So we'll see how that turns out. It's very good at what it does, but the limitations that are needed to restrain it are also great.
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It is a great power for a character played by one person. It is terrible for a quest in my opinion, to much division on when to use it, and the wording.
 
Goldfish said:
Will using the Crown of Eyes cause a visual display that will let everyone present know we just did something supernatural while asking them a question? That seems more relevant at the moment, at least to me, than what it can ask.
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Shouldn't. It's our anima power, but only takes one essence.

That being said everyone in this room probably has mystical senses. So they will probably notice the essence use.
 
It sounds like you can get a read on what is at this very moment or was. Not what will happen. As you said, it's not some kind of path to victory. It doesn't sound like we'd be able to get information beyond the immediate moment or anything not relevant to the question. After all, how can we get an answer to information that hasn't even happened yet.

It sounds like we're tapping into some kind universal Akashic Record for the posed question, and if there's no memory for which to draw for the answer than we're going to get pretty much nothing.

But, yeah, this sort of power is a bit of a nuance to use.

Edit: I'd be happy with observing the meeting and see what shakes out or the mother conversation rather than futzing with this.
 
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jakjjjj said:
It sounds like you can get a read on what is at this very moment or was. Not what will happen. As you said, it's not some kind of path to victory. It doesn't sound like we'd be able to get information beyond the immediate moment or anything not relevant to the question. After all, how can we get answer to information that hasn't even happened yet.

It sounds like we're tapping into some kind universal Akashic Record for the posed question, and if there's no memory for which to draw for the answer than we're going to get pretty much nothing.

But, yeah, this sort of power is a bit of a nuance to use.
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Pretty good take, yeah.

You can ask about What Was

You can ask about What Is

But you cannot ask about What Will because either it has to be wrong or the game is already over.
 
Alectai said:
It's not a valid ask for the same reason "What's going to happen next" isn't a valid ask. It involves trying to look into the future when many people involved have Free Will, so it'll either give you a snapshot of "What's the best next move you can make right now", which gets invalidated the moment someone else with Free Will decides to do something it didn't project.
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Then asking what everyone here wants out of this situation is valid, or what they stand to gain or whatever? As long as they know what they want from it?

Because that involves learning about what people presently want.

But the consequences thing wouldnt work.

Assuming stuff.

Edit:
To be perfectly clear @jakjjjj . The way the power works is we ask Dragonparadox something.

Were currently discussing set dressing essentially.
 
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zxzx24 said:
Then asking what everyone here wants out of this situation is valid, or what they stand to gain or whatever? As long as they know what they want from it?

Because that involves learning about what people presently want.

But the consequences thing wouldnt work.

Assuming stuff.
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If I were GMing, I'd say "Yes but you won't get much detail out of any individual person involved" Just like a quick one sentence summary per person at most.

And of course, no protection against them just changing their mind later either.
 
Maybe Crown of Flame would've been simpler to QM, but we can make this work... I hope. The big obstacle is that it's a quest not a single player deciding, yeah...
 
That's informative.

I could still see some questions spitting out paragraphs worth of information though.

Like asking "how was this made" when looking at a car.
 
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."

This seems valid compared to the current leading vote using the crown. And if we get one sentence answers for each party that'll be more than we knew before. It'll also be clear of subtfuge and any word games that obfuscate their intents.
 
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."

Screw it. Something is better than nothing and frankly Molly needs breadth not depth of information right now.
 
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."
 
So what I'm getting from all of this is that the Crown of Eyes can give us helpful, relevant information. That's great.

Problem at the moment seems to be that there is literally nothing we could learn that would really help the situation, not at this point. Yes, we could satisfy our curiosity to some degree, but it's unlikely to give us additional agency or leeway in the immediate future considering the events which have played out to bring us to this point. The price of satisfying that curiosity would probably alert everyone in the room, bar Murphy and Mama Carpenter, that we just did something fucky with weird mystical power which may or may not conform to the local metaphysical paradigm.

Wouldn't it be better to hold back on asking until we're home behind a really solid threshold, one that, IIRC, has Archangel juice powering it? Hell, just not being around potentially unfriendly actors, and that's pretty much all Fae in Dresden Files even if they seem like your allies at the time, would be nice, too.
 
I really do like Alectai's rambling write-in.

Even if it won't fully convince mom, it sounds like we are still a teenage girl in a situation above her head, which is the best way to sound towards her right now.
We can't trigger "demon in charge" associations, so this is much better than using localised omniscience for something seemingly more clever.
 
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."

My bad on the phrasing for the consequences thing. I was thinking more very immediate term shifts, but anything useful would have to be a prophecy.
 
BronzeTongue said:
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."

My bad on the phrasing for the consequences thing. I was thinking more very immediate term shifts, but anything useful would have to be a prophecy.
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Aye no worries. Were all figuring this stuff out it will take some time.
 
Gonna go with Alectai's plan because I don't think now is a good time to use the Crown and that's the only other viable voting option at the moment.

[X] Alectai
 
[X] Wait, watch and question, it is rare to have so many interesting people in sight
-[X] Write in how to use the Crown of Eyes on the situation: "What do all parties with stakes in this situation hope to gain in its aftermath."
 
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