I don't know where this fanon came from, but Odin is not restricted by God. He's just weaker because he has less worshippers, and wasn't even that powerful (comparatively) to begin with.
Seriously, the gods aren't restricted in any way, they're just weaker. Some of them have died, most of those who remain live in the Nevernever because living in the mortal world makes it possible for someone to gank you, Odin was just the dude who figured out how to get a little more worship from diversifying his worship portfolio and also likes playing it risky by hanging out where he can get killed.
Edit: I stand corrected, somehow I forgot about a WoJ that I quoted before in this thread. The gods are limited by Capital G God, if they wanna play like Odin in the mortal playground they gotta give up their immortality (but not their power?)
I don't know where this fanon came from, but Odin is not restricted by God. He's just weaker because he has less worshippers, and wasn't even that powerful (comparatively) to begin with.
They are restricted in Dresden Files. As long as they, and many other supernaturals not related to outsiders, want to act within the human world they must behave under certain level of power in relation to mortals. They can apply more against each other as long as it doesn't splash on the world but against mortals they must play within rules.
And calling Odin "not that powerful" is silly. He had multiple domains that even downgraded to human level would make him on par with old Merlin.
I don't know where this fanon came from, but Odin is not restricted by God. He's just weaker because he has less worshippers, and wasn't even that powerful (comparatively) to begin with.
Seriously, the gods aren't restricted in any way, they're just weaker. Some of them have died, most of those who remain live in the Nevernever because living in the mortal world makes it possible for someone to gank you, Odin was just the dude who figured out how to get a little more worship from diversifying his worship portfolio and also likes playing it risky by hanging out where he can get killed.
The Restriction doesn't come from God it comes from being inside of conventional reality. There comes consequences with flexing Divine might in the mortal world. There's no evidence to suggest that he isn't still lord of the nine realms even if midgard is now completely independent the other eight still exists as we see from the dwarves and the frost Giants and we know he is still Lord of Asgard and Valhalla. He could fish the Abyssal Shard out of the ocean and then just go back to Asgard to conduct whatever working he needs to do using his full Divine might without possibly endangering himself or reality. He's just always been a God who wants to be where the people are and anything that might endanger that is a no-go from him. A master of magic, trickery and death. He with his brothers slew someone on the level of Ethnui without mordite armor of course. He's not exactly lacking for juice nor sources for said juice either.
I don't know where this fanon came from, but Odin is not restricted by God. He's just weaker because he has less worshippers, and wasn't even that powerful (comparatively) to begin with.
Seriously, the gods aren't restricted in any way, they're just weaker. Some of them have died, most of those who remain live in the Nevernever because living in the mortal world makes it possible for someone to gank you, Odin was just the dude who figured out how to get a little more worship from diversifying his worship portfolio and also likes playing it risky by hanging out where he can get killed.
DF gods don't run by DnD rules. There's power you can extract from worshippers, but the key point is that you need some level of belief to be allowed inside reality. Once you're anchored it's all about how much juice you have personally.
The thing with the nerf isn't fanon. It's a key point of Battle Grounds and I think at least mentioned before that. The white god forcibly retired any god who didn't keep to his rules, and has no dependence on worship to fuel his galaxy busting angels.
Butcher is pretty strongly Christian; he's about as subtle with his faith's influence on his work as C.S Lewis.
That's explicitly a Forgotten Realms feature - Ao got fed up with the gods messing with his world and put them in the corner. Now they either maintain worshippers properly or get booted since he is the local overdeity. Otherwise the gods act similarly to DF ones - the main benefit of worshippers is gods are almost impossible to kill as long as they have at least one.
So Forgotten Realms got through a similar restructuring to DF Earth. Ao just has different priorities compared to White God.
Generally I like this, but shouldn't we talk to the feds a little? We have done some alarming stuff recently.
I also think the alchemy stuff @Degorium has put together should be a regular thing. The benefits are really good and we've already paid in recipe slots for them. Not staying on them all the time to get the exp cost reduction/stat boost is wasteful.
I'd give them a month, and do it next turn.
If its actually pressing, they do know where and how to find Molly.
I'd have to go back and look, but I dont think Alchemy stuff is pressing right now.
Build the Forge.
Then we can worry about reagents and components for this sort of thing.
I don't know where this fanon came from, but Odin is not restricted by God. He's just weaker because he has less worshippers, and wasn't even that powerful (comparatively) to begin with.
Not fanon. Canon, both in the text and Word of Jim.
He was given the option to withdraw or be depowered and accept mortality to stay involved in the mortal world, same as the other gods. The other gods withdrew, he stayed, and promptly started accumulating mantles to get around it.
Worshippers, and people who remember you, have an impact on your ability to affect the world.
Hence the Oblivion War trying to make people forget about the Old Gods to cut them off from the world.
They dont make you stronger or weaker. NotCthulu is as strong as ever.
This is why Im considering dropping Shih Training for a turn and having Molly and the elves build Porter a train, instead of simply importing one from Sanctuary.
Per that last ruling basically you focus on someone, either with a foci like a picture or by looking at them, and roll willpower DC 7 to reduce their dice pool on an action by your successes.
The other trick here is what action means, because arguably it's not just for a turn. When we attempt Emanation forging for example, you make 1 roll for 2 weeks of effort. That could be taken as one action to be cursed.
With our easiest adjusters we could eat a lot of dice from people remotely if we know what they're doing.
Also worth remembering:
He's one of the only two people that the Titan Ethniu paid any respect as a peer in Battle Ground
The other person was the Great Dragon Ferrovax
He's also the only god (according to Butcher) with access to soulfire.
Which is usually the provenance of angels.
I'd have to go back and look, but I dont think Alchemy stuff is pressing right now.
Build the Forge.
Then we can worry about reagents and components for this sort of thing
Hold up, let me check again
*checks*
What are we using them for, though?
Alchemical potions dont keep indefinitely, not unless we have a stasis vault somewhere that timestops the contents.
And critically, this adds bookkeeping for the QM, as they now have to track a changing list of potions, which is additional work for marginal storytelling gain or impact.
Not to mention that as ruling tyrant of a magitech society, making your own personal stockpiles seems....unnecessary.
But even from the WoJ I found, it seems like Odin just gets to interfere with mortals and interact with humanity at the cost of his immortality. The 'restrictions' seem to refer to not being able to do anything unless you put yourself at risk, which most gods don't, and so don't get to play. I didn't find anything about their power being reduced.
Over several different points of the Dresden Files universe, the old gods' power was curtailed, limits set upon it, so that they wouldn't be able to do as much interfering with the development of humans. That was fine with most of them--they were kind of self absorbed jerks anyway, a lot of them. But a few wanted to keep walking beside and guiding humanity.
...
There actually are gods and stuff around and functioning in our world but they're posing as mortals because they're getting way more play as professional wrestlers and rock stars than they ever did as deities. In our world there's a lot of like the old Greek and Roman deities that are still hanging around, they just look very very different and they're not really allowed to do anything except hang on and watch and observe, they're not allowed to get involved in mortal affairs. So they tend to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and thunder and not a lot of things happening, they're not like Odin who is actually involved in the world and there's something right there. That is sort of the limit that the deities have found themselves running into. Eventually at some point in the Dresden Files history there came a point where the Creator was like "okay guys, you were supposed to guide and protect humanity. You sort of did okay in some instances and some places but now it's time for the humans to be making their own way and everybody needs to step off and do it. And if you want to stay involved in the affairs of humanity you're going to have to play and be subject to death as a mortal just like everybody else." And can you really see Zeus going "oh I'm so enamoured with the mortals I'm going to risk myself to help them"? You can't really see that but of all the deities in sort of the major western pantheons that I was looking at the one that I really thought would stay involved, it had to be Odin. It had to be the guy who would go to people's homes and visit them to check up that they were maintaining their host rights properly and stuff like that you know. He was genuinely involved with humanity. So I made him that character who said "alright I'll set aside my deific immortality and I'll throw into the game like anybody else will" and then immediately started building himself to become someone cool and taking all these other mantles to maintain his immortality so he could continue doing what Odin always did which was defend and teach humanity.
Hold up, let me check again
*checks*
What are we using them for, though?
Alchemical potions dont keep indefinitely, not unless we have a stasis vault somewhere that timestops the contents.
And critically, this adds bookkeeping for the QM, as they now have to track a changing list of potions, which is additional work for marginal storytelling gain or impact.
Not to mention that as ruling tyrant of a magitech society, making your own personal stockpiles seems....unnecessary.
They don't keep indefinitely but they also don't go bad instantly either the reason they're making so many is simply because I don't know how many doses are in a batch I just know that we make a whatever the volume of dresden's alchemy kit in potions amount and we can make that potion in x amount of hours also they are meant for multiple people. Also the metals are just for using in crafting they don't expire. Neither do the Sunburst marbles.
So the hope is that the Mercury and the Venus potions will be in use by ourselves Lydia if she wants them Tiffany if she wants them, Olivia if she wants them maybe Harry I don't know maybe he gets jealous of Thomas being so handsome and shoving his foot in his mouth all the time. As well the relatively low difficulty of making the Speed and healing potions will just allow them to be on hand for any situation we have within the next couple of weeks.
Ask for book keeping well I don't know because we only handle XP distribution at the end of a turn and a turn is an entire month the only thing Dragon Paradox would really need to keep an eye on is if they are allowing appearance to go up automatically and when they started taking it. Because otherwise it's just this next dot in Charisma, manipulation, Appearance, Wits Perception Intelligence is one XP at next allocation the potions don't allow rollover XP or anything like that. Which I will admit is not zero bookkeeping but it is kind of really simple though I imagine it gets more complicated if a character that uses XP starts taking them somewhere in the middle of the turn rather than at the beginning.
As for the magical Tyrant bit that's probably true but a lot of these are better just to have on hand unless we're going to just go diving into our hell every time someone gets injured or we want countermagic potion if our hell even has that or we want anti-poison marbles or crazy metal I'm saying our hell probably has a lot of these things but One thats probably expensive Two we can make them faster than we can probably allocate them relatively speaking because four dot potions take four days to make if you don't have passive crafting charms.
But even from the WoJ I found, it seems like Odin just gets to interfere with mortals and interact with humanity at the cost of his immortality. The 'restrictions' seem to refer to not being able to do anything unless you put yourself at risk, which most gods don't, and so don't get to play. I didn't find anything about their power being reduced.
Over several different points of the Dresden Files universe, the old gods' power was curtailed, limits set upon it, so that they wouldn't be able to do as much interfering with the development of humans. That was fine with most of them--they were kind of self absorbed jerks anyway, a lot of them. But a few wanted to keep walking beside and guiding humanity.
...
There actually are gods and stuff around and functioning in our world but they're posing as mortals because they're getting way more play as professional wrestlers and rock stars than they ever did as deities. In our world there's a lot of like the old Greek and Roman deities that are still hanging around, they just look very very different and they're not really allowed to do anything except hang on and watch and observe, they're not allowed to get involved in mortal affairs. So they tend to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and thunder and not a lot of things happening, they're not like Odin who is actually involved in the world and there's something right there. That is sort of the limit that the deities have found themselves running into. Eventually at some point in the Dresden Files history there came a point where the Creator was like "okay guys, you were supposed to guide and protect humanity. You sort of did okay in some instances and some places but now it's time for the humans to be making their own way and everybody needs to step off and do it. And if you want to stay involved in the affairs of humanity you're going to have to play and be subject to death as a mortal just like everybody else." And can you really see Zeus going "oh I'm so enamoured with the mortals I'm going to risk myself to help them"? You can't really see that but of all the deities in sort of the major western pantheons that I was looking at the one that I really thought would stay involved, it had to be Odin. It had to be the guy who would go to people's homes and visit them to check up that they were maintaining their host rights properly and stuff like that you know. He was genuinely involved with humanity. So I made him that character who said "alright I'll set aside my deific immortality and I'll throw into the game like anybody else will" and then immediately started building himself to become someone cool and taking all these other mantles to maintain his immortality so he could continue doing what Odin always did which was defend and teach humanity.
There's a note that Odin grabbed new mantles to make up for the power loss in canon. thats why he's a member of the winter court.well at least one of the reasons.
There's a note that Odin grabbed new mantles to make up for the power loss in canon. thats why he's a member of the winter court.well at least one of the reasons.
It seems like he only grabbed new mantles that allowed him to be immortal not actually more powerful and it says the old God's power was curtailed so that they could not use it on Earth not actually taken from them.
It seems like he only grabbed new mantles that allowed him to be immortal not actually more powerful and it says the old God's power was curtailed so that they could not use it on Earth not actually taken from them.
Oh I mean yeah but that effectively means they can't use that power on earth anyways. I didn't think the power was like gone outside maybe a few cases just you know tied up in their homes or stuff.
Again, is Odin in any way weakened asides from not being immortal? Him grabbing more mantles might mean he's actually stronger now than he was before, just killable. It reads like the only cost for being active in the world is being able to get jumped; it doesn't sound like his power is curtailed or restricted at all.
Again, is Odin in any way weakened asides from not being immortal? Him grabbing more mantles might mean he's actually stronger now than he was before, just killable. It reads like the only cost for being active in the world is being able to get jumped; it doesn't sound like his power is curtailed or restricted at all.
I imagine if he tried to use his Divine power to influence the world in a major way an Angel would be dispatched to deal with him whether that be in the form of steel (Sword) or flesh (Uriel). So I guess the curtailing is the threat of true death by Angel or anyone else who happens to get a lucky shot as Guided by the creator of the universe.
Again, is Odin in any way weakened asides from not being immortal? Him grabbing more mantles might mean he's actually stronger now than he was before, just killable. It reads like the only cost for being active in the world is being able to get jumped; it doesn't sound like his power is curtailed or restricted at all.
Considering hades seems to be roughly equal to mab and Odin is Odin almost definitely. He's not been impressive by godly standards and they used to guard the gates as far as we know. There's no way current him on earth could do that.
The Greek and Hindu Pantheons can't really be compared with the Norse. Odin is just weak compared to other gods, I'm of the opinion he's at full strength and just isn't meant for a cage match as the weakest war god. His true danger was always his perception and unrivaled assholery, after all.
It's funny how Jim thought Odin would be the one god who cared about humanity when in the myths he's as dishonorable and evil as Zeus; at least Zeus cared for customs and traditions (like guest right, which is another thing Jim mistakenly attributed to Odin) while Odin had a vile reputation as someone who favored berserkers and criminals.
The Greek and Hindu Pantheons can't really be compared with the Norse. Odin is just weak compared to other gods, I'm of the opinion he's at full strength and just isn't meant for a cage match as the weakest war god. His true danger was always his perception and unrivaled assholery, after all.
It's funny how Jim thought Odin would be the one god who cared about humanity when in the myths he's as dishonorable and evil as Zeus; at least Zeus cared for customs and traditions (like guest right, which is another thing Jim mistakenly attributed to Odin) while Odin had a vile reputation as someone who favored berserkers and criminals.
Playing Devil's advocate, relying on mythology too much to guess the behavior and personality of deities in DF seems like a good way to make bad assumptions.
Or maybe the myths are spot on? The Santa Mantle could have leaked over and mellowed him out a bit.
The Greek and Hindu Pantheons can't really be compared with the Norse. Odin is just weak compared to other gods, I'm of the opinion he's at full strength and just isn't meant for a cage match as the weakest war god. His true danger was always his perception and unrivaled assholery, after all.
It's funny how Jim thought Odin would be the one god who cared about humanity when in the myths he's as dishonorable and evil as Zeus; at least Zeus cared for customs and traditions (like guest right, which is another thing Jim mistakenly attributed to Odin) while Odin had a vile reputation as someone who favored berserkers and criminals.
eh I mean butcher wasn't technically wrong sure Odins an asshole but he did keep up with bargains and such. Also I'm fairly sure your somewhat wrong here but given myths are myths there's a case by case basis for basically anything you say. Also I doubt myths are accurate for power levels here just assuming gods are generally powerful is a good bet. Also hes not exactly whitewashing Odin considering the wyld hunt shit. It seems more likely even as a god he had multiple mantles for shit.
