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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Alratan said:
Between Daniel and Michael, the father should be the obvious choice here.
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I don't think so. In addition to what other people said, the Sword and the Exaltation are anti-synergy.
The function of the Exaltation is to lift humans "up" to a level where they can deal enough damage to hurt Old Monsters through overwhelming power of Charms that add dice and damage.
The function of the Sword is to pull Old Monsters "down" to a level where they can be hurt by humans. In the Dresden game mechanics, whenever a critter has an immunity or regeneration or other super defense that says it's only vulnerable to some specific thing X (silver, fire) then it is also vulnerable to a Sword of the Cross.

If you rig circumstances to make an Exaltation attach to a Knight of the Cross, what you've got is a human who can hurt Old Monsters in two different ways, but can still only be in one fight at a time and gets one action per turn.
 
Zoolimar said:
Molly is still not part of the Accords. Outrageously so.
From the outside it looks like "fairness" isn't even in her vocabulary. Especially after her latest stunt.
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The Accords aren't a factor; you can totally murder other signatories if you want to, just not their diplomats.

The pretense is mostly to keep them indecisive for longer.


Yog said:
Yes, it's a story and a game, and the world isn't obligated to wait for us. Improving defenses of the Exaltation is a good and natural follow up to Vegas in general. And with the amount of interest on Vegas, people will notice it. I am not taking the risk
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It isn't obligated to wait no, but you've placed the same special urgency on this all quest and it hasn't happened. I don't think we're going to come to an accord here, because I really don't want to deal with them and you really do.


Degorium said:
Would you accept that same argument for not doing Peabody because I don't want to fucking do Peabody I just don't. I want the Wizards that have jobs of dealing with fuckers like Peabody to get the information and then let them deal with it. Though I think we both know I'm not going to get my wish on that one so why would you say that to Yog.
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Yes?

I've been arguing for getting McCoy to do it after stacking the deck for him with more detailed information from the crown for a while now.

If things suddenly seem to be coming to a head or the council seems like they're about to do something stupid we should step in, but I don't actually think Peabody is the only competent Wizard or that he's hiding from their attention for fun. That doesn't mean we need to, or even should, start by hunting him ourselves.

As a nonmember there's basically no scenario where the council is okay with us unilaterally hunting down one of their members for treason without involving them first. Even if we broadly speaking wanted to go for it we really shouldn't without at least a token attempt at the alternative.
 
Yog said:
I will die on this hill. No.
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Yeah, well. We're not going to agree.
There are narrative and mechanical reasons why, after two major arcs in a row in both Vegas and Boston, and a third looking us in the face with regards to Peabody's infiltration of the White Council, we should take a breather.

Furthermore, its a Celestial Exaltation. They get a say in their own disposition.
You dont just get to stick one of those in your back pocket as loot.
Zoolimar said:
Molly is still not part of the Accords. Outrageously so.
From the outside it looks like "fairness" isn't even in her vocabulary. Especially after her latest stunt.
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Eh. Even people who arent officially Accords signatories largely keep within its strictures. The Jade Court is canonically not signatories, but keep to its strictures, and are treated as signatories because people who dont extend the privileges of such to them have horrible things happen to them.

And those people without inside knowledge will get word that Mikaboshi's henchman Demon!Batman actively attacked someone that Molly was talking with. In public. In Boston.
The very best result of that was Molly having to deal with explaining a dead body to law enforcement.

That alone would have been sufficient cause to take lethal offence.


@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)Can clones spend time training Path Sorcery to give Molly Sorcery discounts?
I specifically ask with regards to Fortune Path, which we know is a thing in Sanctuary.
And I remember Bob can teach Divination.

2) Dont we still owe Porter a Train-body ?
 
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BronzeTongue said:
The Accords aren't a factor; you can totally murder other signatories if you want to, just not their diplomats.

The pretense is mostly to keep them indecisive for longer.



It isn't obligated to wait no, but you've placed the same special urgency on this all quest and it hasn't happened. I don't think we're going to come to an accord here, because I really don't want to deal with them and you really do.



Yes?

I've been arguing for getting McCoy to do it after stacking the deck for him with more detailed information from the crown for a while now.

If things suddenly seem to be coming to a head or the council seems like they're about to do something stupid we should step in, but I don't actually think Peabody is the only competent Wizard or that he's hiding from their attention for fun. That doesn't mean we need to, or even should, start by hunting him ourselves.

As a nonmember there's basically no scenario where the council is okay with us unilaterally hunting down one of their members for treason without involving them first. Even if we broadly speaking wanted to go for it we really shouldn't without at least a token attempt at the alternative.
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Oh well good on you and I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't want to fucking do Peabody holy shit. Well my bad sorry for saying that. Though I agree I don't think the exaltation is going to go down this month the only people that have knowledge of it are the black court and holy Sun worshipers are kind of the exact people to play keep away if they know the black court is after it. Though I am kind of concerned with Odin grabbing the Abyssal out of the ocean but well I'm sure the Chosen of the All father will be cool to see.
 
What's the option to get Tiffany to upgrade us? I also want to take the Alchemy 4 Discount option, so that we can start using those formulas come the following month.

Maybe even contact the Librarians after this crazy month we've had with them. I mean, in January alone we helped them save Las Vegas/left side of the US from getting flattened, helped prevent the immediate collapse of the American financial system, and even retaliated against Mikaboshi to show he can't do that shit on US soil.
 
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TheGrape said:
What's the option to get Tiffany to upgrade us? I also want to take the Alchemy 4 Discount option, so that we can start using those formulas come the following month.

Maybe even contact the Librarians after this crazy month we've had with them. I mean, in January alone we helped them save Las Vegas/left side of the US from getting flattened, helped prevent the immediate collapse of the American financial system, and even retaliated against Mikaboshi to show he can't do that shit on US soil.
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Like I pointed out, there is no such option.
We do not normally control Lash's AP options during the course of the normal turn. Just like we dont control Lydia, or Olivia.

The Alchemy 4 thing is not so immediately pressing as to warrant 1 AP right now, since we cant use SGI for it.
DragonParadox said:
He would like one, but you do not owe it to him, you already fixed the Station. That said it's something that Sanctuary spirit binders could do therefore something that SGI Mollies could organize.
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Fair.
Still, when someone is a key part of your local defenses, generosity appears to be warranted. Dont cheap out on your home security infrastructure.

Can Molly!Prime spend 1 AP personally building him one?
 
Zoolimar said:
I can't even imagine what an exalt mix of Abyssal and Odin would look like. Emo trickster?
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I can't imagine it would be a mixture. As The Shard of Oblivion isn't attached to the exaltation but rather comes to the exalted while they're being so, it's just a death or Oblivion natured solar Shard at the moment and he is known enough for his magic and his connection to the world tree enough to replace A Shard of Oblivion even if it is just a haft of Yggdrasil and a lot of magic of Asgard and himself. I imagine it'll take on his nature as Chooser of the slain. Then it'll be Odin's einherjar. Then the Solar Shard will break out because none of that changes the fact that it's keyed to bust out the second the Abyssal Shard is released.
 
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Zoolimar said:
I can't even imagine what an exalt mix of Abyssal and Odin would look like. Emo trickster?
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Odin has plenty of death aspect already, the Vikings called him Hanged God, Slaughter-Man, Chooser of the Slain, Lord of the Gallows, Lord of the Undead, Unmaker. An Abyssal working for Odin might not need to change anything at all.

(Bolverkr is hard to translate, "Unmaker" is what I've used, but "Evildoer" or "Curse-Caster" could also apply.)
 
uju32 said:
Like I pointed out, there is no such option.
We do not normally control Lash's AP options during the course of the normal turn. Just like we dont control Lydia, or Olivia.
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There's no functional difference in universe to Molly asking Lash for an upgrade at the end of a turn or in the middle. Frankly, I can't see Lash refusing, even if she asks for something in return.

@DragonParadox Can we have a Lash bodybuilding action?
 
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Exmorri said:
Odin has plenty of death aspect already, the Vikings called him Hanged God, Slaughter-Man, Chooser of the Slain, Lord of the Gallows, Lord of the Undead, Unmaker. An Abyssal working for Odin might not need to change anything at all.

(Bolverkr is hard to translate, "Unmaker" is what I've used, but "Evildoer" or "Curse-Caster" could also apply.)
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Oh yeah, Odin is not a nice god and I do not just mean to modern sensibilities, the people who worshiped him acknowledged that he held dominion over things they wished to be warded against.
 
Exmorri said:
Odin has plenty of death aspect already, the Vikings called him Hanged God, Slaughter-Man, Chooser of the Slain, Lord of the Gallows, Lord of the Undead, Unmaker. An Abyssal working for Odin might not need to change anything at all.

(Bolverkr is hard to translate, "Unmaker" is what I've used, but "Evildoer" or "Curse-Caster" could also apply.)
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Could he even do it? He's a god and all, but the celestial exaltations were only ever shifted from their purpose by the primordial world titans who built reality. Even the version where exigents exist that's still case; people invest blank shards they can't just boop an old one on the nose and change its type.

Offering an exaltation power perhaps in the form of a charm set is one thing, they love new toys, making them fundamentally change is another.

It might be enough to change the course of their life, but still.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Offering an exaltation power perhaps in the form of a charm set is one thing, they love new toys, making them fundamentally change is another.

It might be enough to change the course of their life, but still.
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To be fair it is an Abyssal Exaltation and Odin has enough death related domains to try slotting into the role of a Deathlord. Metaphysically speaking. And he is already accustomed to wearing a lot of hats. So he won't so much change the Exaltation as take on the role it already expects to exist.

Won't give him that much control but he may be able to steer it in the direction of his preferred candidate.
 
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TheGrape said:
There's no functional difference in universe to Molly asking Lash for an upgrade at the end of a turn or in the middle. Frankly, I can't see Lash refusing, even if she asks for something in return.

@DragonParadox Can we have a Lash bodybuilding action?
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There is. Permanent upgrades can take time and Faith to pull off, and they require that she has Faith to spare for that, from a permanent daily budget of 3 Faith points(Flesh 5 costs 1 Faith to use). If she's spent it on other stuff, Molly is not going to ask her to literally render herself defenseless.


We are spending 4 of Lash's AP on the Forge this month.
Assuming she gets the same 6 AP that Molly does, that leaves her with 2AP.
She spends 1 AP on work, and the other AP on her own personal upgrades.

And she's out.
 
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Sort of a tangent, but can we get a ruling on shadow spite curse now that we have it @DragonParadox ? If we can actually curse people by focusing on them without needing line of effect or sight then that could factor into our plans.

Zoolimar said:
To be fair it is an Abyssal Exaltation and Odin has enough death related domains to try slotting into the role of a Deathlord. Metaphysically speaking. And he is already accustomed to wearing a lot of hats. So he won't so much change the Exaltation as take on the role it already expects to exist.

Won't give him that much control but he may be able to steer it in the direction of his proffered candidate.
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It's not just a matter of themes, it's power and nature. The Neverborn were the remnants of creator gods even when what they wanted was to destroy. Reforging an exaltation isn't exactly out of their grasp, though it's close.

If he wants to add back what time wore down or change what the Neverborn set then he needs to match them.

Edit:

To clarify; I mean that being a big death aligned thing isn't enough. If the Abyssal DRM was still in play it'd be pointing at specific entities. Assuming it's not as the ExWoD book does by default then he needs to add it back in.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Could he even do it? He's a god and all, but the celestial exaltations were only ever shifted from their purpose by the primordial world titans who built reality. Even the version where exigents exist that's still case; people invest blank shards they can't just boop an old one on the nose and change its type.

Offering an exaltation power perhaps in the form of a charm set is one thing, they love new toys, making them fundamentally change is another.

It might be enough to change the course of their life, but still.
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In ExWod as published, Mages can tamper with or alter Exaltations. The book has significant caveats about difficulty and successes, but says it's possible. ExWod is a time and place when all magic fades, the cosmos has been reordered, and the old rules don't hold quite as strictly.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Sort of a tangent, but can we get a ruling on shadow spite curse now that we have it @DragonParadox ? If we can actually curse people by focusing on them without needing line of effect or sight then that could factor into our plans.
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It needs either line of sight, line of effect or a focus comparable to what you use for your crown. So you cannot curse Nicodemus by having Michael speak his name at you, but if you had a picture he is fair game, at least to attempt. Molly does not know how good his protections are

Anyway will update the character sheet in the morning. Good night guys.
 
[]PLAN HOME SECURITY GUARDIAN
-[] MOLLY PRIME: 6 AP + 2 Infernal AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will: 1 AP
---[] Moving out. The sooner you get Rosie out of that house the better
--[][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] The Other side of the Mirror: Secure Nevernever areas corresponding to the Last station: 1 AP
--[][PERSONAL TRAINING]The Bridges of the Spirit, continue your training with Brother Divsimar not in the ways of the spirit but the mind, the Bridge of Dreams. 1AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] NEW Getting Lydia a Good Boy: assist Lydia in getting a dog, maybe a magical one. Mouse might be interested in helping. 1 AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] NEW Training... Wizards?: Carlos would like to meet with you. 1 AP
--[][CRAFTING] New Artifact Workshop: Crafting a place of potential(0/10 AP)[(Joe Magarac(1d4 AP) + Tiffany(4 AP)]: 1 AP + 1 Infernal AP
-[]SPLINTERED GALE INCARNATION: 18/24 SGI AP
--[][SCHOOL][SGI] Attend school: 1 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Look into the Minor Talents of Chicago: 3 SGI AP
---[] Alphas, friends of Harry, close to you in age
---[] Friends in Low Places, she might work for Marcone but Grad was really cool
---[] Spirit Speaker, Mortimer Lindquist is the real deal
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] Updated [SGI] Higher Education: Engage with mundane side of getting into Harvard: 2 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Crown and Scepter, see what good your unique talents can be in Sanctuary: 6 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] [SGI] NEW Teachings of Winter: Teach unknown Paths to the spirit binders of Sanctuary.Your presence, in some manner will help smooth matters. 3 SGI AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] Cauldron Bubble, your new friends in the Ordo Lebetis could use more help, maybe not as... enthusiastic as the last time, but they are small fish in a very big and scary pond
---[] Updated [SGI] Online presence, See if you can convince the others to set up a strong online presence. 1 SGI AP
--[][FAMILY TIME] [SGI] Updated Family Unknown, now that you know the full story your feelings towards your maternal grandparents are complicated to say the least, but people change right? And even if they didn't you have other more distant family in Boston that it would be cool to meet. 1 SGI AP
--[][FAMILY TIME] [SGI] NEW Introductions to more of you: Twin jokes. Get your family used to other yous: 1 SGI AP




This is the rough draft.
I'll polish up and provide reasons a little later when I get back; among other things, I should put an Action for making Porter a train in the plan.
 
Exmorri said:
In ExWod as published, Mages can tamper with or alter Exaltations. The book has significant caveats about difficulty and successes, but says it's possible. ExWod is a time and place when all magic fades, the cosmos has been reordered, and the old rules don't hold quite as strictly.
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Mages were allowed to do that specifically because Holden was trying to preserve the mage themes of basically becoming a demiurge that can force reality to take the form you want. That's not a thing in the DF and Odin isn't one a mage even if it was.

Personally I think most of those rules are bullshit, but if we're looking at them in the first place we should take their context into account as well:

How come mages get to screw around with Exaltation when that was always strictly off-limits in Exalted itself? Mostly for the same reason the Gurahl get to bring the dead back to life, even though that was a feat be- yond the power of even the mightiest of the Chosen back in Exalted: this is a different era and it plays by different rules. Mages have the power to at least attempt to rewrite reality according to their will, and I didn't feel it was Exalted vs World of Darkness's job to delegitimize what mages are. The Exalted are "guests" in the World of Darkness, albeit very unruly ones. They're crashing in on someone else's story. I didn't want this book to make the World of Darkness feel like a paper mockery of itself by just taking away any facts or features that might be troublesome for the Chosen
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ExWoD page 447
 
uju32 said:
[]PLAN HOME SECURITY GUARDIAN
-[] MOLLY PRIME: 6 AP + 2 Infernal AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will: 1 AP
---[] Moving out. The sooner you get Rosie out of that house the better
--[][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] The Other side of the Mirror: Secure Nevernever areas corresponding to the Last station: 1 AP
--[][PERSONAL TRAINING]The Bridges of the Spirit, continue your training with Brother Divsimar not in the ways of the spirit but the mind, the Bridge of Dreams. 1AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] NEW Getting Lydia a Good Boy: assist Lydia in getting a dog, maybe a magical one. Mouse might be interested in helping. 1 AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] NEW Training... Wizards?: Carlos would like to meet with you. 1 AP
--[][CRAFTING] New Artifact Workshop: Crafting a place of potential(0/10 AP)[(Joe Magarac(1d4 AP) + Tiffany(4 AP)]: 1 AP + 1 Infernal AP
-[]SPLINTERED GALE INCARNATION: 18/24 SGI AP
--[][SCHOOL][SGI] Attend school: 1 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Look into the Minor Talents of Chicago: 3 SGI AP
---[] Alphas, friends of Harry, close to you in age
---[] Friends in Low Places, she might work for Marcone but Grad was really cool
---[] Spirit Speaker, Mortimer Lindquist is the real deal
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] Updated [SGI] Higher Education: Engage with mundane side of getting into Harvard: 2 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Crown and Scepter, see what good your unique talents can be in Sanctuary: 6 SGI AP
--[][INVESTIGATIONS] [SGI] NEW Teachings of Winter: Teach unknown Paths to the spirit binders of Sanctuary.Your presence, in some manner will help smooth matters. 3 SGI AP
--[][ARCANE ALLIES] Cauldron Bubble, your new friends in the Ordo Lebetis could use more help, maybe not as... enthusiastic as the last time, but they are small fish in a very big and scary pond
---[] Updated [SGI] Online presence, See if you can convince the others to set up a strong online presence. 1 SGI AP
--[][FAMILY TIME] [SGI] Updated Family Unknown, now that you know the full story your feelings towards your maternal grandparents are complicated to say the least, but people change right? And even if they didn't you have other more distant family in Boston that it would be cool to meet. 1 SGI AP
--[][FAMILY TIME] [SGI] NEW Introductions to more of you: Twin jokes. Get your family used to other yous: 1 SGI AP




This is the rough draft.
I'll polish up and provide reasons a little later when I get back; among other things, I should put an Action for making Porter a train in the plan.
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Generally I like this, but shouldn't we talk to the feds a little? We have done some alarming stuff recently.

I also think the alchemy stuff @Degorium has put together should be a regular thing. The benefits are really good and we've already paid in recipe slots for them. Not staying on them all the time to get the exp cost reduction/stat boost is wasteful.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Sort of a tangent, but can we get a ruling on shadow spite curse now that we have it @DragonParadox ? If we can actually curse people by focusing on them without needing line of effect or sight then that could factor into our plans.


It's not just a matter of themes, it's power and nature. The Neverborn were the remnants of creator gods even when what they wanted was to destroy. Reforging an exaltation isn't exactly out of their grasp, though it's close.

If he wants to add back what time wore down or change what the Neverborn set then he needs to match them.

Edit:

To clarify; I mean that being a big death aligned thing isn't enough. If the Abyssal DRM was still in play it'd be pointing at specific entities. Assuming it's not as the ExWoD book does by default then he needs to add it back in.
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The only criteria that actually seems to hold is that exaltations can't be a downgraded and as long as his magic and the multiple Realms that he holds with the souls that he holds as well allow him enough power he can probably outright change the coating because it's still the core of it is solar might not never born if he's capable of pouring enough essentially the Valhalla or Aesir Essence to perform what is essentially another side grade or even a minor upgrade then the exaltation will accept it without complaints. Which considering his grasp with magic and how rituals work and the fact that he just does have a lot still even if it takes him 9 days and 9 nights together the Divine might necessary I imagine he can probably figure it out.
 
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There is also the fact that whatever Odin would do with Exaltation shouldn't fall under any restrictions of the White God so he would be able to use his full power.
 
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