Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and propose handing them over to the Library of Congress
-[X] Have Harry whip up some containment circles to hold them in place, and get Monoc security to guard the circles
-[X] Provide the Library with a short booklet explaining the dangers of akuma and how they can be contained
-[X] Make it clear that you are handling over prisoners, not test subjects
 
[X] [AKUMA] Destroy them

[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.


I did originally vote for letting them go, but that aint gonna happen, so I'll switch to destroying them.
Giving them to the Library is the worst of all possible options.

It might lead to them dying, or it might lead to them continue killing eventually, either way we did nothing but abdicate our responsibility.
And in the process we are given a potential danager/ressource to someone we don't know as an ally/enemy yet.
 
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[X] [AKUMA] Destroy them
[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.


I did originally vote for letting them go, but that aint gonna happen, so I'll switch to destroying them.
Giving them to the Library is the worst of all possible options.

It might lead to them dying, or it might lead to them continue killing eventually, either way we did nothing but abdicate our responsibility.
And in the process we are given a potential danager/ressource to someone we don't know as an ally/enemy yet.
Depends on how we do it.

The way I see it, we aren't a legitimate authority the same way a government is yet and even when we are it won't necessarily apply here.

To an extent I'm willing to ignore that, but I also wouldn't call making a good faith effort to work with people who have the authority and potential ability to handle law enforcement tasks as abdicating responsibility.

Especially if we stay involved and use this as leverage to get influence with how things are done with this sort of thing. Getting involved with building proper prisons for supernaturals would be a very interesting direction to take this if their holding facilities can't handle stuff like this long term.


If it fails then we learn something and can work with what went wrong to get better. At the very least we'll be able to say that we didn't disregard mortals entirely without trying anything first later on.


It's certainly a better option than just sending them to Eiko, where Emma-O will put them to whatever task he wants.

Edit:

Also worth considering that we have a Shih with us. Captured Akuma are probably not that common, but he might have some useful input in the dangers involved.
 
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The way I see it, we aren't a legitimate authority the same way a government is yet and even when we are it won't necessarily apply here.

To an extent I'm willing to ignore that, but I also wouldn't call making a good faith effort to work with people who have the authority and potential ability to handle law enforcement tasks as abdicating responsibility.

Especially if we stay involved and use this as leverage to get influence with how things are done with this sort of thing. Getting involved with building proper prisons for supernaturals would be a very interesting direction to take this if their holding facilities can't handle stuff like this long term.


If it fails then we learn something and can work with what went wrong to get better. At the very least we'll be able to say that we didn't disregard mortals entirely without trying anything first later on.
I am kinda willing to completly disregard goverment-agencies in this.

It's certainly a better option than just sending them to Eiko, where Emma-O will put them to whatever task he wants.
That might give Eiko more freedom of action though.

I'm really looking forward to actually trying out her insane plan, but that won't move on if she spends the next few years in Emma-O's dungeons, rather than the next few months.

I mean, if her boss was a just and fair person, he would propably accept that the person who bears responsibility for this failure is currently beheaded at our feet, but I really doubt he won't blame her at least partially for this fiasco and that every minor asset she can bring back matters in this case.
 
I am kinda willing to completly disregard goverment-agencies in this.
When they can't or won't solve an out of context problem sure, but they're still the representatives of the people here. If they can be made to work then there's value in doing so.

At very least it offer a broader and fairer range of options than killing dangerous people or letting them go to do whatever they like.
That might give Eiko more freedom of action though.

I'm really looking forward to actually trying out her insane plan, but that won't move on if she spends the next few years in Emma-O's dungeons, rather than the next few months.

I mean, if her boss was a just and fair person, he would propably accept that the person who bears responsibility for this failure is currently beheaded at our feet, but I really doubt he won't blame her at least partially for this fiasco and that every minor asset she can bring back matters in this case.
Don't think it's worth it really. Her plan isn't really a plan at all, it's a crazy hope.
 
...
...
Why did you guys vote to bring her along again? She's mostly been an obstacle during this event rather than an asset AFAIK.
1) We (I) sorta kinda wanted legitimacy in case we needed to evacuate the place, or if the fight spilled into the streets
2) Keeping Murphy in the loop is important for our long-term relationship
 
Even if you are, which is ok, fair enough, are you willing to disregard Murphy too? She's right here. Executing prisoners would definitely be against her thinking. Offering to give them to LoC is the best way to smooth the rough angles with her.
Yes.
She clearly doesn't share our views or accepts our methods.
Neither in letting Eiko's minions go, nor in killing these ones.

Would have been nice to have her on our side, but I don't think that will happen.
 
Yes.
She clearly doesn't share our views or accepts our methods.
Neither in letting Eiko's minions go, nor in killing these ones.

Would have been nice to have her on our side, but I don't think that will happen.
Giving akuma to LoC would be a very good compromise with her. Chances are, they'll either contain them using the manual we provide them, or execute them. This way we get a lot of brownie points with her. And also with LoC for that matter. I want a library card.
 
I am kinda willing to completly disregard goverment-agencies in this.

And here we see the typical SV problem with not controlling everything, leading to bad cases of protagonists centered morality and bad reputations with allies.

The LOC is either incompetent, whereas it doesn't matter if they're overthrown by a scenario that is still improbable anyway because it relies on the Akumas all being time bombs that the hells don't decide to buff to monstrous levels for no reasons, or they're competent, and are not going to be taken by surprise and either tells us about the *these guys are too dangerous, we're not keeping them* part, or not be overthrown when it's tried and they're prepared.
 
So, a final reiteration and detail of my argument before I go to sleep.

Pros of giving akuma to LoC (in no particular order):
1) It improves our standing with Murphy. She is a useful asset, and can be an issue if sufficiently angered. We probably don't want to dodge SI as a matter of course, and they can be useful. And making an enemy out of her (as killing prisoners would work towards doing) would also strain our relationship with Dresden, which works against our Intimacy.
2) It improves our standing with LoC. Since we'll be providing them the safety containment guide, we should also get a library card out of it. That's useful for later
3) It provides us a LoC-connected crown focus, which gives us information about how good / evil / incompetent they are. Based on how they treat their prisoners (ask a question after a month or so using a photo of one of the akuma), we should be able to learn a lot about organization and make a more informed decision concerning cooperating with them further
4) This minimizes the chances of these akuma killing again without us having to murder prisoners. Murdering surrendered prisoners is also a bad idea - if it gets known that we do so, people would be far less likely to try and surrender to us in the future. And yes, it can get known. If nothing else, unless we are soul killing these bastards, Emma-O would know. And at least some being will probably be able to scry what happened later. We have a top notch intellectus-like ability, but we are not the only ones with intellectus-like ability (in fact, I am surprised Gard's "honored dead" one doesn't extend to akuma here).

What are the dangers of this move?

1) Akuma take over / subvert LoC. This is unlikely for the following reasons:
1.1) We'll be providing them with a safety manual. If they are incompetent enough to not follow it, then they are likely already subverted by one party or another, and that party is likely to resist having the organization stolen from them.
1.2) Akuma here can be contained by a circle. Yes, Dresden is a full wizard, but, even assuming LoC has no full talents on staff (arguable, given how much mojo their agents were packing when we saw them), they certainly have enough minor talents to make a decent one.
1.3) Akuma don't produce techbane. This means that, if nothing else, automated containment can be done.
1.4) LoC is under no obligation to take the akuma if they don't have the ability to contain them. They can refuse. That would be a valuable data point. Assuming they are hubristic enough to take them anyway, see point 1.1 - they are most likely suberted anyway. The more likely scenario here is that either LoC executes them themselves, possibly after a speedy trial, or they tell us it's ok to kill them. That, too, would be an important data point.

2) Akuma might be tortured / vivisected. This is also unlikely in my opinion, for the following reasons:
2.1) We'll be handing them over as prisoners. LoC has some small idea of our importance. If nothing else, they know about Knights of the Cross. They are likely to hesitate making Michael their enemy by inhumanely treating the prisoners he handed them.
2.2) It's impractical to destructively analyze test subjects you have limited supply of. If the supply is not limited (i.e. LoC regularly encounters akuma), then they likely already vivisected some in their 3 hundred years of history.

There is an argument to be made that handing them over to LoC is abrogation of responsibility. In a sense it probably is. But we are not a sovereign power yet. Acting as such, we have slain their leader to avenge our people. LoC is the closest to legit law there is in USA, and, at least for now, it's useful to follow said law where possible. Note that Monoc security is a legit firm that has all its permits for heavy weaponry somehow. Immortals take effort to cooperate with the law where possible. So should we, I feel.
 
Might be too late to matter, but couldn't Lydia's Rest-Granting Strike free them?

That way we effectivly destroy them, but also ensure that their souls move on, rather than end up in Yomi Wan again, or get shredded by our infernal power.
 
And here we see the typical SV problem with not controlling everything, leading to bad cases of protagonists centered morality and bad reputations with allies.
In this case it is a perfectly reasonable stance to take. Time and time again the government in this setting has been proven to be incompetent and or incapable whenever the supernatural are even remotely involved. The only difference here is that this is a Quest which means things may very well be different.
So, a final reiteration and detail of my argument before I go to sleep
After careful deliberation I'll be going with Yog's vote. It's the second most risky of the 3 with the first being "just heal them and let them go lol".

I hope that pamplet is very thorough with all the possible dangers of Emma'O delineated in fine detail so that they know exactly what kind of a risk his servants, willing or not, pose merely by having a connection to him.

If LoC fucks up with containment or if Emma-O supercharges them successfully(via soul bargins or whatever), and or uses them to spy on an organization with entirely unknown assets then we'll know we can't ever truly trust the government with anything supernatural ever again ever period.

This is much more interesting plot wise.

If LoC does take them in those questions we ask in a month need to be good though. You guys have been really smart with those so that seems guarenteed fortunately.
[X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and propose handing them over to the Library of Congress
-[X] Have Harry whip up some containment circles to hold them in place, and get Monoc security to guard the circles
-[X] Provide the Library with a short booklet explaining the dangers of akuma and how they can be contained
-[X] Make it clear that you are handling over prisoners, not test subjects

[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.
 
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[X] Yog

Honesty? Why not.

1. It does give us an "IN" with the lawful authorities and lets us see if they really are all that they said they were.
2. Murphy part, as by Yog, I agree with.
3. It is in character.
4. xp for when it invariably blows up.
5. This is a suggestion only and not the final answer.
6. This does solve any moral issue as I really did not like any other options and disliked destroying them the least.
 
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Can we awaken the spirit of the sword the slums dropped? Molly might not know how but Harry if he knows the prime sphere enough might be able to help. A living sword that isn't a bane might be helpful to anti-bane powers.

Also, can we help Harry increase his arete by triggering a seeking with his avatar and helping him through it? It's not easy going from 5 to 6, but it is very beneficial for both Harry and Molly.
 
So, if arrest them wins, then Emma-O will be utterly humiliated. Not only did he loose a Greater Akuma, he had his agents arrested and imprisoned by mortals.

That has got to sting.
 
I am fine with either of the leading options winning. Just so long as we aren't just letting them go to be put back into circulation.
 
OK then this does not look like there are more votes incoming. Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 10, 2023 at 2:29 AM, finished with 233 posts and 33 votes.
  • 33

    [X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and propose handing them over to the Library of Congress
    -[X] Have Harry whip up some containment circles to hold them in place, and get Monoc security to guard the circles
    -[X] Provide the Library with a short booklet explaining the dangers of akuma and how they can be contained
    -[X] Make it clear that you are handling over prisoners, not test subjects
    [X] [AKUMA] Destroy them
    [X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and let them go back to Lady Eiko
    [X] [AKUMA] Try to recruit them, it's clear they have been tricked into this
    [X] [AKUMA] Force a binding oath upon them
    -[X] Never again shall they do harm through action or inaction to the innocent lest their own power destroys them
    [X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and propose handing them over to the Library of Congress
    -[X] Have Harry whip up some containment circles to hold them in place, and get Monoc security to guard the circles
    -[X] Provide the Library with a short booklet explaining the dangers of akuma and how they can be contained
  • 24

    [X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
    -[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
    -[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.
    [X] [AFTERMATH] Don't meddle, you have enough on your plate already
    [X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in: Creative Omissions
    -[X]J and the girl were apparently kidnapped by parties of unknown allegiance, likely the same involved in the Recluce Murders, who went to the trouble of faking J's death. J and the girl were just the latest set of victims; there are other dead bodies on the site, including at least one elderly woman. The kidnappers got in a gunfight with law enforcement and deputies acting on a tipoff of suspicious activity on the site and were killed. They were apparently meddling with substances that made most of their bodies decompose after their deaths, which may have some connection with the substances used in the apparent poisonings in the Recluce Murders. Investigations are ongoing.
    [X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
    -[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
  • 1

    [X] [AFTERMATH] Don't meddle, you have enough on your plate already
 
Arc 6 Post 35: To Judge and be Judged
To Judge and be Judged

3nd of October 2006 A.D.

it would be simplest to kill them. Oh how you wish you could blame Usum for that thought, but you cannot really, it is not born of some careless act of malice or desire for vengence against the servants of Emma-O. All akuma are bound to the will of their maker and do his bidding in the world, that bidding is a dark and twisted thing fueled by the blood of their victims, how many more would die if you turned a blind eye? Mon's words come back to you all too clearly: kindness to the guilty can be cruelty to the innocent. Should I be the one who decides guilt and innocence? Looking around at the faces of the people who had helped you fight this battle you wonder what they would say,.

From the frown between his brows you guess dad's guessed you are thinking of something more weighty than what Detective Murphy can put on a report while Gard had turned away to organize her companions for a quick getaway, Harry's busy trying to clean himself up, not that you think there's much hope for that White Sox t-shirt. The only one whose thoughts you can guess at easily are Brother Divisimar from his stories of his order. While they do their best to deal peacefully with shen when they can the servants of the Yama Kings cannot be in harmony with the world for their masters are the world's ruin.

As for sending them to Lady Eiko it risks her plot as well as whoever else might be involved in it. If Emma-O's thoughts would settle on her with suspicion even for a moment their fate would be much worse than death. Is it worth it just to spare torturers dying? Faith would push one to say yes, to trust that for them too there is salvation, but the knowledge of how tight and insidious the chains on them is like a lead anchor to that hope. I should have just killed them in the fight, your thoughts spiral down to helplessness.

You are halfway though marshaling the arguments you are going to use on Detective Murphy, starting with 'they are already dead' and continuing with 'they have to eat people and their master has no reason to command restraint' when the answer comes to you.

"We should call the Library of Congress, maybe they will take the prisoners. Harry you could make circles to keep them in once I stitch them back together right?"

After a moment's thought he nods, but Brother Divisimar speaks up against it: "They are dangerous now, not only fingers on a hand that had been broken. Send them to the heart of another's power and their master might make more of them, toold fit for a subtler, darker purpose."

Remembering Von Trier's cold eyes and whispering aura you shake your head. "I think they can deal with it, I'll... write down some pointers. It's the only way not to..."

As the words trail off dad comes up to you and squeezes your shoulder, managing somehow to make cold metal a comfort. "Surely it is wroth asking," he says looking around, in what is very much not a questioning tome.

"Closest thing to a legal option we have," Karin Murphy sighs. "Jesus Christ," she mutters so low you practically have to read it off her lips, more a prayer than taking the Lord's name in vain that's for sure..

It only takes you about a minute to unceremoniously entomb the body of the lesser Akuma under concrete for later, by the time you are done the lieutenant is still on the phone. "Yeah he's agreed to hold them... He's sure... That's right lesser, I have Harry's conformation and..." she looks over at you and Lydia, not quite sure if she should be giving teenagers as her sources, but eventually she does so.

Whoever is on the other side of the call has to talk to their superiors leaving you to stack the dismembered prisoners in the back of one of the Monoc vans. In the silence that follows you approach the detective. "About J and the body you could just not explain things say J was out of town, the case if just going to be classed with bigfoot and aliens." Both of which exist, you don't add aloud as you manage to invoke the ghost of a smile at least , a very tired ghost from the look of things.

"We know how to make bodies vanish," Bones speaks up from the back, the first words he had spoken since his rescue. The rest of the ghouls had cried and hugged, fretted over the people they had been separated from, but the two elders had not joined in. They had known Adam best you know...Everyone grieves different, you remind yourself and offering professional services is reasonable enough.

It takes Detective Murphy a moment to realize what they had offered. "That will not be necessary." To her credit the tone is well practiced professional courtesy like she gets people offering to eat inconvenient bodies all the time A moment later her phone goes off. The Library of Congress had agreed to take the prisoners off your hands tomorrow, but for the rest of today you have other matters to settle.

***​

As you lead the Jade Dogs back through the tunnels to the last station you ask Lockjaw how Adam had died. It's not good... but then you had not been expecting good, only bad and worse.

"Burned 'im he did, the big bone head you killed with dark fire, or darkness in the shape of fire, don't rightly know I'm not a wizard, but there wasn't nothing left of Adam when he was done. The screams... fuck I thought the screams would go on forever."

"Did Adam have any particular faith or spirituality? What would he have wanted done?"

The old ghoul looks down as though to find some insight in the cracked concrete. "If he was killed in a fair fight by another ghoul he'd have liked the winner to eat him like it's... traditional I guess. With the way he actually went I figured you already did what he would have wanted to have done." At your confused look he snorts and gives a tight-lipped smile. "Revenge."

You nod. Somehow it doesn't feel like it's enough.

"Figure the young 'uns are expecting something more," Lockjaw says after a moment. From his tone it's clear he is not just thinking about the other Jade Dogs and just as clear eh has no idea what to say. Room to grieve is not something that had been afforded to him before and now it yawns before him like an undiscovered land filled with pitfalls.

How do you memorialize Adam?

[] A eulogy, you have not known him long, but for that time it seemed to you he was doing the best he could with what life had dealt him

[] Action, you will make sure something like this cannot happen so easily in the future
-[] Write in measures to make the Last Station more secure, particularly complex changes will add to the number of actions needed to refurbish it

[] Write in


OOC: This is a culture-building moment for the ghouls and, to an extent, for the Jade Dogs as a whole.
 
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