Minor topic-shift. What's the general opinion here of Holden and Morke being terminated and replaced as Exalted's developers? I ask because I saw Morke expressing displeasure at the prospect of Neall Price being brought on as one such replacement, and it got me wondering how y'all feel about the subject.
I'm not exactly the most well-regarded, loudest or even most-authoritative poster here on the subject, though I figure by now a lot of folks would consider me the most acerbic about the two, but even I am not really one to celebrate when someone loses their primary source of income even if they had it coming. Considering Holden's history of holding both his potential audience (to the point of being curtailed from a mod-position at a fairly high-traffic forum for being unduly abrasive) and his employers in open contempt, and hatewheel's stunning inability to avoid putting his foot in his mouth despite being a Writer who arguably should understand how words carry meaning for the contexts you present them, hopefully the two of them can find easy employment in another industry that doesn't provide quite so much rope to hang themselves with, and for the love of god not place them on a customer-facing position.

That said, while it leaves open a great deal of room for improvement on Ex3, a lot of the damage has already been done. The corebook is out in the wild, and much like 1e before it, its obvious that the line can only survive by moving forwards, not iterate out the myriad problems established by the base text. Which means that even if the next book is the Best Book, and funded accordingly, it will merely be another example of Exalted's lingering and questionable pedigree of massive swings in quality for the investment of time and effort to play. We saw this repeatedly in the early 00s, as Solars and the core-assumptions they were built upon languished in pending-errata hell for the next half-decade or so once every other Exalt-type got their own turn, paving the way for several official and unofficial rewrites (like Power Combat and Cult of the Illuminated Solars).

With almost twice as many Exalts promised than before, this looks to be asking a Lot of players who were not immediately taken by the idea of using their unused collections of books to fill the competency-gaps left behind by the text, or demanding the new audience seek out system-incompatible PDFs of out-of-print books for setting material as the new versions take a stab at trying to fashion the updated system into something genuinely Inviting for the extended Kickstarter-mainstream, who might otherwise feel burnt or turned away by all the soured goodwill surrounding the subject til now. The fact the DB book is having such a tepid response despite being what Should have been a grandslam in terms of game-importance and fan-interest, doesn't really strike me as very heartening.

So yeah. While the mutiny is a success, I don't think there's a whole lot of folks who can deny that Holden and co still sent them all out to die on a leaky boat, regardless of how well they can navigate the reefs.
 
I haven't really thought of that yet.

Perhaps they were forced out of their home, and made to wander?

Maybe they went into the deep desert to escape a great danger?

Maybe their ancestors were people who, after the great contagion, were stranded in the desert with no amenities, survived via sorcery, and then continued on?

Maybe they did so cause there was no good farmland, and they used summoning of the harvest to keep themselves alive?

Maybe they were ordinary seasonal nomads, but after finding sorcery their lifedtyle changed?
When making fantasy cultures, you have to put a little thought into how whatever makes them a fantasy culture functions and ask if it makes sense in the context of the world. Everyone is going to need to eat and drink regularly for simple survival. It's sort of a hard coded assumption. So if a culture for some reason decides that the wise thing is to abandon other methods of getting food and water and instead rely on one person's ability to summon it from the ether, you have to explain why everyone is so stupid. The sorcerer is now the Ruler simply by virtue of the fact that he or she is now non-replaceable. Why are they continuing to live in an area so inhospitable to life that they require a sorcerer to survive when they can use their nomadic skills to move on to a more hospitable climate (which is why nomads exist, so that they can cycle through environments that are only temporarily hospitable).

Finally consider the area the spell covers. A 50-yard radius isn't all that large in a farming context, I believe. That's a little under the area of two American Football fields if you put them next to each other and stand in the middle. If you need to better visualize that space, go to google maps, find your house, and there's an option when you right click to measure distances and draw a 150 foot line away from your house. That's the radius of the spell that gets blocked out for a year after you cast Summoning of the Harvest. Why travel any meaningful distance at all to another fortress every week when the next day the sorcerer can just move 100 yards away in the very same field and call up a new harvest?
 
Hmm.... true.

Perhaps my idea of nomads was wrong.

I'll try and make another one tomorrow. After writing fanfiction. But thank you for the critique, anyway.
 
Now, should the exigence of teachers and such be a better teacher than the solars?

I mean, the solar exalted are given their powers by the Unconquered Sun, whose themes are perfection, unsurpassed excellence in all things, and basically 'i'm better than you'.

But this is the schtick of the teacher exigent! Should they, perhaps, outshine the solars in their own focused part? Or perhaps be superior in other ways?

Holden actually had a good post about that.

I'm not exactly the most well-regarded, loudest or even most-authoritative poster here on the subject, though I figure by now a lot of folks would consider me the most acerbic about the two, but even I am not really one to celebrate when someone loses their primary source of income even if they had it coming.

Was it really?

It's hard to make a living on RPGs even if you write rather a lot. I'd be surprised if two people could survive off the proceeds of one book in 3-4 years.
 
Holden actually had a good post about that.



Was it really?

It's hard to make a living on RPGs even if you write rather a lot. I'd be surprised if two people could survive off the proceeds of one book in 3-4 years.
....so his point is that, the Solar is good at everything because his theme is 'excellence'.

An exigent whose theme is 'teaching' will basically have every single ability charm looked through that lens. A socialize charm is one that will let you pass a message or information to someone else quickly and efficiently. war charms include training up the soldiers individual powers, and nothing else. Craft charms involve things like textbooks. Like that?
 
I'm not sure if Exigents should be Ability Exalted, honestly. I'd have them at like 20 charms total which are cross applicable, like your Mass Learning Lecture should work with either Performance or Linguistics.

The combination of "representatives of the spirits" and "abilities based on human capacity" doesn't seem to click for me.
 
I'm not sure if Exigents should be Ability Exalted, honestly. I'd have them at like 20 charms total which are cross applicable, like your Mass Learning Lecture should work with either Performance or Linguistics.

The combination of "representatives of the spirits" and "abilities based on human capacity" doesn't seem to click for me.
.... I'm not sure.

I'll just leave the idea here. I think you guys probably homebrew better than me. And my head sucks for mechanics, anyway.

Though if you really want it, you can always try to instead have it like infernal charms. By essence.
 
Solars are excellent at anything they put the effort into mastering, they aren't good at "anything". This is the hill I will die on, because actual characters don't have unlimted xp. A solar master of disguise will be able to disguise themselves as anything, but they aren't and never will be a shapeshifter like a lunar is a shapeshifter for instance, even if their disguises are the result of shapeshifting.

A solar teacher is an excellent teacher. An Exigent empowered by a god of education isn't going to be a printing press of manuals of +1 bonuses. It's going to manifest as charms that help the eigent learn things about the world and then pass on that knowledge. They would make great spies, because they would be able to learn a lot from very little information. They would be great at bringing two peoples together by teaching them about how they are the same and fostering an appreciation for the differences in cultures. They collect students and they look out for their students. Making them into little factories that improve NPC's stats is the most boring way to handle a teacher exalt I can think of
 
....so his point is that, the Solar is good at everything because his theme is 'excellence'.
He's saying there's more than one way to hamstring an Exalt to be not as good as a Solar at something, which includes thematically-narrowing her range of options to such a degree that while she might meet the Solar in terms of end-results, she's going to need things like a lot more Charm-coverage to get there. Which is before factoring in things like mote-costs, requirements, XP, and the varied ways the system will enforce how she's not going to do it as quickly, without tools or supporting infrastructure, or however else you can think of in terms of limitations.

Which means he's making a really elaborate nonstatement about character potential, to the cue of "yes, you can both roll 10 successes somehow. Eventually." The implication of "you'll all get there someday" rankles those of us who'd prefer more standardization among Charm powers, so that Solar "I roll 10 successes" and Other-type "I roll 10 successes" is not the difference of 28 motes and 3 willpower, 15 Charms across 9 Ability trees, 3 dots of Essence and a grand total of 150xp for an instant-speed roll, when the Solar walked in that way from basic chargen and can keep it going all Scene.
 
Making them into little factories that improve NPC's stats is the most boring way to handle a teacher exalt I can think of
It's got some weight to it. Mass teachers like the Buddha who enlighten vast crowds aren't a bad idea as a concept.

the difference of 28 motes and 3 willpower, 15 Charms across 9 Ability trees, 3 dots of Essence and a grand total of 150xp for an instant-speed roll, when the Solar walked in that way from basic chargen and can keep it going all Scene.
Was this that bad an issue with 2e Sidereals?
 
It's got some weight to it. Mass teachers like the Buddha who enlighten vast crowds aren't a bad idea as a concept.
Enlightening the masses is "I listened to the Buddha's sermon and now I have some strong intimacies that change my behavior and I've lost some intimacies that made me behave the way I used to before", not "Oh wow I now have more dots on my sheet because I got slapped by a training effect"
 
Enlightening the masses is "I listened to the Buddha's sermon and now I have some strong intimacies that change my behavior and I've lost some intimacies that made me behave the way I used to before", not "Oh wow I now have more dots on my sheet because I got slapped by a training effect"
I think there is some space for mass educational seminars and stuff that qualifies as training.

Besides, people like that do exist in real life. We learn of many things through books and I think speeches could be used to transmit information if done regularly, which should count as skill raising. That should be a default thing, that listening to lectures can be stunted as training time for a skill that is being lectured.

I mean, teachers today don't always give personal attention but people listening to them learn something, right?
 
I think there is some space for mass educational seminars and stuff that qualifies as training.

Besides, people like that do exist in real life. We learn of many things through books and I think speeches could be used to transmit information if done regularly, which should count as skill raising. That should be a default thing, that listening to lectures can be stunted as training time for a skill that is being lectured.

I mean, teachers today don't always give personal attention but people listening to them learn something, right?
All of that is in the game, though. Having a teacher is something that counts for reducing training times already, and there are means for Exalted to train people faster through charms. They just require more investment than the example given above.
 
I think there is some space for mass educational seminars and stuff that qualifies as training.

Besides, people like that do exist in real life. We learn of many things through books and I think speeches could be used to transmit information if done regularly, which should count as skill raising. That should be a default thing, that listening to lectures can be stunted as training time for a skill that is being lectured.

I mean, teachers today don't always give personal attention but people listening to them learn something, right?
One person can train relatively small groups of people effectively, maybe 30 people? More if like, plato is giving a lecture in front of a hundred people and they all discuss it among themselves afterwards, but then they're all sort of acting as tutors to each other then. A charm that lets the Exigent train large groups of people efficiently, like he gives a lecture every day that's so comprehensive that an auditorium full of a thousand people are being educated as if they were receiving individual instruction would fit into the setting well. A charm that lets the exalt pose a problem that the student must puzzle through, but once they do so understanding flowers in their mind would let the Exigent meet with the student for maybe an hour but count as training them for a whole month while they puzzle through it. Charms that magically instill a strong intimacy towards learning and education. Charms that attack intimacies the teacher disapproves of by picking them apart.
 
I was reading up on Oedanol's Codex to get a full grasp on 2e Thaumaturgy (mostly to see how to move it to 3e, since I don't like 3e's Thaumaturgy), and it occurred to me that given that there's so many Arts, that it wouldn't be inconceivable for each Exalt type to be particularly good with one. Like, similar to how some Exalt types only resonate with some kinds of MMs, or reach certain levels of MAs or Sorcery, but just as a simple, passive thing, something neat for starting characters rather than something that's going to be super-useful in the long run.

You need to buy degrees-as-specialties to use higher procedures of Thaumaturgy in 2e, but since I'm trying to use 3e for this, I'd simplify it to just needing one Specialty (ex "Occult [Art of the Dead]"), and the appropriate number of dots in Occult.

The idea here is that each Exalt type would instantly be treated as though they already had said specialty in one of the eleven arts, and as if they had the appropriate number of Occult dots, but only for purposes of attempting any procedure within that Art. Meaning that you could in theory try out the highest procedures of the Art even without a single Occult dot, though your chances of success would be very slim. Perhaps they could also learn the appropriate Specialty without any outside help, since said Art would be 'in their nature', so to speak.

The following are just my speculations on how each Exalt type should correspond to the Arts.
  • Astrology is obviously for Sidereals, just as the Dead is for Abyssals, Demon Summoning is for Infernals, and Elemental Summoning is for Dragon-Bloods.
  • Enchantment is said to have been created by Autochthon, so evidently Alchemicals should have a natural grasp of it.
  • Husbandry generally involves the natural world, including animals and humans, so it's a clear fit for Lunars. It's not very flashy but it should be practical.
  • IIRC Getimians are going to have a balance of their internal and external essence, so maybe Alchemy would be right for them? Really not sure.
  • Liminals are apparently going to be ghost-hunters and stuff so I think Warding and Exorcism would fit them well.
  • Exigents are supposed to be fairly unique, but being given power from other spirits aside from the important ones, they would have Spirit Beckoning.
  • I think Geomancy would be the thing for Solars to excel at, but I'm not entirely sure. Maybe they just individually choose which Art they excel at best?
  • If by some miracle most of the other Arts are ok for their Exalt types, I guess the odd one out, Weather Working, would fit some other type of Exalt.

Thoughts?
 
I was reading up on Oedanol's Codex to get a full grasp on 2e Thaumaturgy (mostly to see how to move it to 3e, since I don't like 3e's Thaumaturgy), and it occurred to me that given that there's so many Arts, that it wouldn't be inconceivable for each Exalt type to be particularly good with one.

Thoughts?

Tough call, honestly. More power to you for your own games, but as a 'statement' on the greater setting, I have to say no, not a good idea. Exalted already has a problem of over-emphasizing exalts, to a memetic extent, and thaumaturgy, while useful, is meant to accentuate their prowess and more importantly, assist Mortals.

Thaumaturgy is what you use to flesh out the world, not the Exalted. That's not to say Exalts shouldn't be good at thaumaturgy- 2e is notorious for making thaumaturgy too difficult for exalts to even dabble in, but there's a reason for that. you're supposed to offload thaumaturgy onto the decades-experienced, wizened master or savant. You as a player don't have to do everything, and are instead passively encouraged to offload competencies onto NPCs and the like.
 
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